@BBCDanielS Map of the day. From the Shell brochure about their planned shale gas project in E Ukraine...centred on Sloviansk! pic.twitter.com/FXA1qagwsH
we should revise name of thread at this point, not much left of euromaidan. what seems to be unfolding now is anti-maidan protests with separatist elements (seems like the majority just want more decentralization) vs kiev + armed right sector thugs. i wonder if they are travelling from west to east with covert backing from kiev, or just the usual acquiescence.
What's that supposed to show? That Shell is operating actively in Russian-controlled areas? They have probably the largest foreign stake in an oil project in Russia with Sakhalin 2. They also have the most to lose if Russia is sanctioned so they have been actively lobbying against strong action against Russia. This is one of the reasons why on the map of countries opposed to sanctions, the Netherlands was in the `against' camp.
That project is probably an added reason for Shell to want Ukraine to remain in the influence sphere of Russia, and is rather endangered by the aftermath of the Maidan.
Wouldn't they want to exactly stay away from that area then? This is disrupting any chance there's foreign investment coming in. And they can disrupt the May 25th elections elsewhere as well. I mean, there might be an argument to be made somehow, but I don't get it.
engaged in a bilateral sense, but would seem like a nice grab for russia (not that i think that's likely, but prolly a bit more involved for the ppl making decisions in kiev). nothing is gonna happen in in slovyansk until de-escalation. the militant seperatists are answering 'until the referendum' to the question 'how long are you gonna stay?'...
@BBCDanielS Map of the day. From the Shell brochure about their planned shale gas project in E Ukraine...centred on Sloviansk! pic.twitter.com/FXA1qagwsH
we should revise name of thread at this point, not much left of euromaidan. what seems to be unfolding now is anti-maidan protests with separatist elements (seems like the majority just want more decentralization) vs kiev + armed right sector thugs. i wonder if they are travelling from west to east with covert backing from kiev, or just the usual acquiescence.
If the thread shouldn't be called Euromaidan it would be just as bad or even worse to call it anti-Maidan since the context of an anti-movement is defined as the opposition to... Something.
There is an argument for calling it something like "civil disorder in Ukraine" to encompas right sector and separatists and demonstrations to political murders, but then again: To understand the context of what is happening Putin would insist on Maidan being what caused it and therefore it being relevant. To understand the position of a significant player in the conflict it is therefore necessary to understand what caused it and we are therefore back to the situation best being understood in context of "Euromaidan".
@radi i think civil disorder in ukraine sounds like a good suggestion and a better descriptor for a conflict that now encompasses all of ukraine, rather than one of the localized elements that played a part. aha, antimaidan would be funny.
@ghan re: inter channel attack from kyivpost - (google translate)
...
At the same time, near the main entrance to the editorial offices of the TV channel ICTV on the street. Pankovskaya, gathered a group of 11 young people of 20 people dressed in camouflage uniforms, who demanded off the air Russian-language programs and series and stop hostile propaganda. Policemen went to the scene, but the guys were gone.
...
rbc.ua euromaidan afterbirth to blame prolly, nothing like a good ol' shakedown.
On April 29 2014 00:43 nunez wrote: @radi i think civil disorder in ukraine sounds like a good suggestion and a better descriptor for a conflict that now encompasses all of ukraine, rather than one of the localized elements that played a part. aha, antimaidan would be funny.
@ghan re: inter channel attack from kyivpost - (google translate)
At the same time, near the main entrance to the editorial offices of the TV channel ICTV on the street. Pankovskaya, gathered a group of 11 young people of 20 people dressed in camouflage uniforms, who demanded off the air Russian-language programs and series and stop hostile propaganda. Policemen went to the scene, but the guys were gone.
...
rbc.ua euromaidan afterbirth to blame prolly, nothing like a good ol' shakedown.
But there is a world of difference between 20 people shouting outside a tv station and disappearing before the police arrives and armed thugs with masks throwing smoke bombs and vandalising a tv station. The first is a democratically protected action as long as it doesn't escalate, while the latter is a serious chill on medias independence.
On April 29 2014 00:43 nunez wrote: @radi i think civil disorder in ukraine sounds like a good suggestion and a better descriptor for a conflict that now encompasses all of ukraine, rather than one of the localized elements that played a part. aha, antimaidan would be funny.
@ghan re: inter channel attack from kyivpost - (google translate)
...
At the same time, near the main entrance to the editorial offices of the TV channel ICTV on the street. Pankovskaya, gathered a group of 11 young people of 20 people dressed in camouflage uniforms, who demanded off the air Russian-language programs and series and stop hostile propaganda. Policemen went to the scene, but the guys were gone.
...
rbc.ua euromaidan afterbirth to blame prolly, nothing like a good ol' shakedown.
But there is a world of difference between 20 people shouting outside a tv station and disappearing before the police arrives and armed thugs with masks throwing smoke bombs and vandalising a tv station. The first is a democratically protected action as long as it doesn't escalate, while the latter is a serious attack on media freedom.
Technically, it's much worse, those armed guys in Eastern Ukraine took over TV stations, brought their own technicians, shut off some channels and started broadcasting pro-Russia channels.
On April 29 2014 00:43 nunez wrote: @radi i think civil disorder in ukraine sounds like a good suggestion and a better descriptor for a conflict that now encompasses all of ukraine, rather than one of the localized elements that played a part. aha, antimaidan would be funny.
@ghan re: inter channel attack from kyivpost - (google translate)
...
At the same time, near the main entrance to the editorial offices of the TV channel ICTV on the street. Pankovskaya, gathered a group of 11 young people of 20 people dressed in camouflage uniforms, who demanded off the air Russian-language programs and series and stop hostile propaganda. Policemen went to the scene, but the guys were gone.
...
rbc.ua euromaidan afterbirth to blame prolly, nothing like a good ol' shakedown.
But there is a world of difference between 20 people shouting outside a tv station and disappearing before the police arrives and armed thugs with masks throwing smoke bombs and vandalising a tv station. The first is a democratically protected action as long as it doesn't escalate, while the latter is a serious attack on media freedom.
Technically, it's much worse, those armed guys in Eastern Ukraine took over TV stations, brought their own technicians, shut off some channels and started broadcasting pro-Russia channels.
My point was that the quoted article seems far too concilliatory to provide the information in a prudent manner. Aka. "One of ours to the hospital" doesn't equal "One of theirs to the morgue" to bastardize a quote.
On April 29 2014 05:12 BeaSteR wrote: @Ghanburighan What is he talking about? Separatist something. Anyone care to translate ?
Sorry, quickest possible translation: they have formed a group of black men, in response to the little green men, and will go to fight in Eastern Ukraine for Ukraine and against Pro-Russia guys.
EPT![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BmTi5hCCQAIYMUx.jpg)
