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On March 02 2014 01:35 zeonmx wrote:
The U.N. Security Council will hold an urgent meeting on the crisis in Ukraine on Saturday after Russia announced plans to send armed forces into the autonomous Crimea region of the former Soviet republic.
A diplomat from Luxembourg, president of the 15-nation council this month, said the meeting would take place at 2:00 p.m. EST (1900 GMT) and was being convened at the request of Britain.
Reuters
LOL. The UK called the meeting -- not the US. Obama is such a joke.
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On March 02 2014 01:35 zeonmx wrote:
The U.N. Security Council will hold an urgent meeting on the crisis in Ukraine on Saturday after Russia announced plans to send armed forces into the autonomous Crimea region of the former Soviet republic.
A diplomat from Luxembourg, president of the 15-nation council this month, said the meeting would take place at 2:00 p.m. EST (1900 GMT) and was being convened at the request of Britain.
Reuters
The most interesting thing will be chinas reactions. If russias two biggest trade partners work together to apply some pressure, we could actually get some results without resorting to violence.
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I have only one thing to say about Russian ways..
They seem to very worried because they feel that Crimeans need to have independence and shouldn't be under a nation they don't want to belong.. why don't they have the same worries about the peoples of Ossetia, Tchetchenia and all the other regions that want independence from Russia?
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On March 02 2014 01:40 Twoflowers wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2014 01:35 zeonmx wrote:
The U.N. Security Council will hold an urgent meeting on the crisis in Ukraine on Saturday after Russia announced plans to send armed forces into the autonomous Crimea region of the former Soviet republic.
A diplomat from Luxembourg, president of the 15-nation council this month, said the meeting would take place at 2:00 p.m. EST (1900 GMT) and was being convened at the request of Britain.
Reuters The most interesting thing will be chinas reactions. If russias two biggest trade partners work together to apply some pressure, we could actually get some results without resorting to violence.
China? Helping western interests? They will probably invade Taiwan before anything like that happens
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On March 02 2014 01:40 Twoflowers wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2014 01:35 zeonmx wrote:
The U.N. Security Council will hold an urgent meeting on the crisis in Ukraine on Saturday after Russia announced plans to send armed forces into the autonomous Crimea region of the former Soviet republic.
A diplomat from Luxembourg, president of the 15-nation council this month, said the meeting would take place at 2:00 p.m. EST (1900 GMT) and was being convened at the request of Britain.
Reuters The most interesting thing will be chinas reactions. If russias two biggest trade partners work together to apply some pressure, we could actually get some results without resorting to violence.
Uh tbh I don't think China has any issues with what Russia is doing.
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Moscow wants US ambassador to leave the country after Obama's speech, wowow it's escalating a bit too quickly
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On March 02 2014 01:43 shell wrote:
I have only one thing to say about Russian ways..
They seem to very worried because they feel that Crimeans need to have independence and shouldn't be under a nation they don't want to belong.. why don't they have the same worries about the peoples of Ossetia, Tchetchenia and all the other regions that want independence from Russia?
Who knew a large nation could be hypocritical.
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On March 02 2014 01:43 shell wrote:
I have only one thing to say about Russian ways..
They seem to very worried because they feel that Crimeans need to have independence and shouldn't be under a nation they don't want to belong.. why don't they have the same worries about the peoples of Ossetia, Tchetchenia and all the other regions that want independence from Russia?
Because all those regions you mentioned are very pro-Russia to begin with.
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On March 02 2014 01:44 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2014 01:40 Twoflowers wrote:On March 02 2014 01:35 zeonmx wrote:
The U.N. Security Council will hold an urgent meeting on the crisis in Ukraine on Saturday after Russia announced plans to send armed forces into the autonomous Crimea region of the former Soviet republic.
A diplomat from Luxembourg, president of the 15-nation council this month, said the meeting would take place at 2:00 p.m. EST (1900 GMT) and was being convened at the request of Britain.
Reuters The most interesting thing will be chinas reactions. If russias two biggest trade partners work together to apply some pressure, we could actually get some results without resorting to violence. China? Helping western interests? They will probably invade Taiwan before anything like that happens
You must not know a thing about how China and Russia have interacted before.
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On March 02 2014 01:43 shell wrote:
I have only one thing to say about Russian ways..
They seem to very worried because they feel that Crimeans need to have independence and shouldn't be under a nation they don't want to belong.. why don't they have the same worries about the peoples of Ossetia, Tchetchenia and all the other regions that want independence from Russia?
Moscow is hypocrit and imperialistic
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On March 02 2014 01:45 HolydaKing wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2014 01:40 Twoflowers wrote:On March 02 2014 01:35 zeonmx wrote:
The U.N. Security Council will hold an urgent meeting on the crisis in Ukraine on Saturday after Russia announced plans to send armed forces into the autonomous Crimea region of the former Soviet republic.
A diplomat from Luxembourg, president of the 15-nation council this month, said the meeting would take place at 2:00 p.m. EST (1900 GMT) and was being convened at the request of Britain.
Reuters The most interesting thing will be chinas reactions. If russias two biggest trade partners work together to apply some pressure, we could actually get some results without resorting to violence. Uh tbh I don't think China has any issues with what Russia is doing.
I think china is not a big fan of seperatism. Also they would give up their support of the status quo, that they liked so much regarding Syria. Also I'm not sure they would like a stronger russia. Russia and china weren't always bffs.
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On March 02 2014 01:49 Twoflowers wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2014 01:45 HolydaKing wrote:On March 02 2014 01:40 Twoflowers wrote:On March 02 2014 01:35 zeonmx wrote:
The U.N. Security Council will hold an urgent meeting on the crisis in Ukraine on Saturday after Russia announced plans to send armed forces into the autonomous Crimea region of the former Soviet republic.
A diplomat from Luxembourg, president of the 15-nation council this month, said the meeting would take place at 2:00 p.m. EST (1900 GMT) and was being convened at the request of Britain.
Reuters The most interesting thing will be chinas reactions. If russias two biggest trade partners work together to apply some pressure, we could actually get some results without resorting to violence. Uh tbh I don't think China has any issues with what Russia is doing. I think china is not a big fan of seperatism. Also they would give up their support of the status quo, that they liked so much regarding Syria. Also I'm not sure they would like a stronger russia. Russia and china weren't always bffs.
Opens the door for China to claim parts of Siberia down the line. Large provinces there where the vast minority is ethnic chinese.
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Russia sure likes posturing needlessly and causing trouble.
They could have just called for a referendum in Crimea, and probably won (especially with their covert efforts).
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I hope that NATO intervenes. Everything that Putin currently does, feels like what Hitler did, when he 'saved' sudeten germans. Except Putin is doing it at a faster pace. This is scary.
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On March 02 2014 01:24 mcc wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2014 01:06 hypercube wrote:On March 02 2014 00:45 mcc wrote:On March 02 2014 00:22 Gorsameth wrote:On March 02 2014 00:17 Twoflowers wrote:On March 02 2014 00:09 Gorsameth wrote:On March 02 2014 00:03 hypercube wrote:On March 01 2014 23:58 Gorsameth wrote:
And so it is once again shown that EU protection is a fucking joke. We will happily promise our protection but as soon as something bigger then a fly shows up we tuck our tails between our legs and run away.
Sickening to see how spineless our leadership has become. EU protection means something if it's backed up by US power, which in practice it usually is. TBH, I don't think Russia can effectively go through with this, they will have to back down at some point. No point in sending troops to Ukraine and risk an armed conflict when there are less direct means to achieve the same goals. Except that seems to be what is happening at this very moment. On March 02 2014 00:03 Twoflowers wrote:On March 01 2014 23:58 Gorsameth wrote:
And so it is once again shown that EU protection is a fucking joke. We will happily promise our protection but as soon as something bigger then a fly shows up we tuck our tails between our legs and run away.
Sickening to see how spineless our leadership has become. What EU protection? We have no treaties with the Ukraine that would justify a military intervention. We also have no forces in Ukraine, while russia has a fucking naval base near the biggest crimean city. Economic threats at russia would probably not be enough to stop an invasion. So what exactly shoulod teh EU do? The Budapest Memorandum is why atleast the US and UK have a duty atm. And what we should do? How about following Russians example when they moved there army to Ukraine's borders and showing them that we will respond if they invade instead of flinging harsh words. This is a game of chicken by Putin and we pulled out before it even started. http://www.ezilon.com/maps/images/europe/political-map-of-Ukraine.gif <-- to which border do you want the uk move forces? Shit is going down a bit too fast to organize a movement of UK troops to romania, poland etc. and they would have to go through turkish territory for acces to the black sea. Also these movements would have been interpreted as agression towards russia. And Russia moving its army to Ukrains border isn't a sign of aggression? Is it a sign when there flying military helicopters across the border? Is it a sign when they approve "war"? Would the troops need to be there in an hour? no ofc not but when you have your people mobilizing for the move it shows Russia your serious We're seeing the effects of doing next to nothing right now. Internet-tough-guy act is not how real world works. Real situation is that Russia has big amount of leverage on the situation. They can threaten to cripple Ukarainian economy even without the use of force. They have in some areas popular suppport. They have a military base on Ukrainian territory. They can hit Europe economically also. They can also block Western diplomacy on issues more important to the West than Ukraine is. US has some leverage due to being US. US can hurt Russia economically somewhat and actual threat of force would put Putin in a bad position. But US capability to posture is limited due to last 13 years. EU has some leverage as they can hurt Putin back economically. Militarily most likely not as Putin would know it is a bluff. Neither of those parties wants war with one another. Putin can always ignore economical threats as his position in Russia is not weak. So he knows that if he limits himself to small gains he will risk nothing as nobody will do squat, because it is in nobody's interest to do anything. Of course there is another possibility, very unlikely one, that Putin sees that Ukraine is lost and might be admitted to NATO and decides that it is inacceptable to him and goes for full-on aggression. But that would be such a risk and he never showed any inclination to risk too much. Though considering that for Russia limiting NATO influence was always a priority, not restoring USSR territorially as you claim, who knows. There's one little detail you're leaving out: The US has made a commitment to defend Ukraine against aggression. Of course the US has ignored some of its commitments before but that was always to extend their influence. The idea that they would give up something that they have promised to protect anyway is extremely unlikely. TBH, I'm not even sure there's anything more important to US diplomacy than Ukraine. Dominant powers tend to honour security guarantees (unless they are the aggressors). It might be an inconvenience and they might make small concessions to avoid conflict but ultimately the logic of power kicks in. Ignoring a US security guarantee is a direct challenge to the US, no matter how important the country itself is. There's the little detail of Russia's nuclear arsenal, of course. In the end if Russia said: "We are invading Ukraine and if you try to stop us we'll nuke you", then there's a reasonable chance even the US would back down. But than they would have other options. US has an out as long as Russians do not go outside of Crimea and maybe few parts of eastern Ukraine. If they don't, US can silently pretend that Russia is just "protecting" their compatriots. And yes currently Ukraine is the most important issue, but unless the situation goes full retard, it will become old news very quickly.
I don't think they want an out. Ideally they would want a democratic Ukraine that is part of NATO and continue with their long term strategy of eliminating Russia as a completely independent power block.
Russia probably wants a guarantee that Ukraine won't join NATO more than anything else. Maybe strong autonomy for Crimea as an excuse to meddle in the future too.
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On March 02 2014 01:54 zlefin wrote:
Russia sure likes posturing needlessly and causing trouble.
They could have just called for a referendum in Crimea, and probably won (especially with their covert efforts).
That's precisely what Crimea has voted to do. They voted to have a democratic referendum.
But the Kiev-Junta government have refused to honour the outcome. They tried to take part in the democratic process.
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Hah, China won't help. They are too busy planning to invade Pacific islands in the face of Obama's impotence.
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On March 02 2014 01:55 zeonmx wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2014 01:54 zlefin wrote:
Russia sure likes posturing needlessly and causing trouble.
They could have just called for a referendum in Crimea, and probably won (especially with their covert efforts). That's precisely what Crimea has voted to do. They voted to have a democratic referendum. But the Kiev-Junta government have refused to honour the outcome. They tried to take part in the democratic process.
The democratic process isn't democratic when an outside nation moves troops in with the intent of backing one side. Nice try though.
And lol, xDaunt has officially lost it.
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On March 02 2014 01:57 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2014 01:55 zeonmx wrote:On March 02 2014 01:54 zlefin wrote:
Russia sure likes posturing needlessly and causing trouble.
They could have just called for a referendum in Crimea, and probably won (especially with their covert efforts). That's precisely what Crimea has voted to do. They voted to have a democratic referendum. But the Kiev-Junta government have refused to honour the outcome. They tried to take part in the democratic process. The democratic process isn't democratic when an outside nation moves troops in with the intent of backing one side. Nice try though.
That happened after the illegal Kiev government intruded in their referendum. But nice try.
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On March 02 2014 01:57 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2014 01:55 zeonmx wrote:On March 02 2014 01:54 zlefin wrote:
Russia sure likes posturing needlessly and causing trouble.
They could have just called for a referendum in Crimea, and probably won (especially with their covert efforts). That's precisely what Crimea has voted to do. They voted to have a democratic referendum. But the Kiev-Junta government have refused to honour the outcome. They tried to take part in the democratic process. The democratic process isn't democratic when an outside nation moves troops in with the intent of backing one side. Nice try though.
The democratic process isn't democratic when an outside nation funds and supports ultra-nationalists taking down a democratically elected government.
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EPT
