On February 01 2014 05:18 KelianQatar wrote: Wow, a ton of banter over a stupid little topic.
Fuhr was good but not great.
Smith, Roy and Ranford all won Cups during the "Fuhr era" and contributed more to their team winning. Which is why they all won the Conn Smythe and Fuhr never did.
Smith, Roy and Ranford were phenomenal and out played Fuhr.
I never said he was great around the league. ALthough, you could probably argue it regardless.
Fuhr has a Vezina, a Couple of Jennings trophies (although, one is shared with hasek), five Stanley Cups, was inducted into the HHOF, is one of seven Oilers numbers retired (an elite list: Gretzky, Messier, Fuhr, Kurri, Anderson, Coffey, and Al Hamilton (first Oiler Captain 1972–80, WHA days)), has 2 Canada Cup golds, appeared in 8 allstar games, has 5 first/second allstar team appearences, holds the NHL record for consecutive wins by a Goallie, hold NHL record for GP by a goaltender, has NHL record for asssits by a goaltender, has NHL record for most games played consecutively in a season by a goaltender.
Which, you tell me... how many just 'good' goaltenders have a list of accolades that large?
But I was merelystating that in Edmonton, he is great. And he is, ask any Edmontonian, no matter how small, who Grant Fuhr is and they'll tell you he is a legendary goaltender that won us five cups. They'll tell you Fuhr had a ton of fire and compete. They'll tell you that no matter what, when the game was on the line they were confident in Fuhr.
On February 01 2014 08:49 iCanada wrote: Fuhr has a Vezina, a Couple of Jennings trophies (although, one is shared with hasek), five Stanley Cups,
by that logic, Roland Melanson has a 1983 Stanley Cup championship to his credit.
1987 Canada Cup... 17 goals in 3 games incl. the final game where Canada dominated and he gave up 5 goals... again watch the games. 1984 Canada Cup, yes he was on the team and watched Pete Peeters play great while sitting on the bench. Played like shit against the US and never saw the ice again. Still, being a back up means he was a good goalie. again, try watching the games.
the 1990 Stanley Cup was Ranford's not Fuhr's. the 1983 Cup was Billy Smith.
as stated earlier, Fuhr was good , but not great. Fuhr lost his job to Felix Potvin. and he was a big coke-head.
as stated earlier he never once put in a Roy/Smith/Parent/Hasek style performance to win a cup. he was a good/above average goalie on a great team. period. end of story.
This little discussion made me look up his stats out of curiosity. Makes me marvel at how the game has changed since that day. His raw stats are shit tier by today's standards lol. I wonder what the league avg for SV% was in those days.
On February 01 2014 12:36 Slaughter wrote: This little discussion made me look up his stats out of curiosity. Makes me marvel at how the game has changed since that day. His raw stats are shit tier by today's standards lol. I wonder what the league avg for SV% was in those days.
Pretty close to Fuhr's, except lower by a solid 5-10%.
Keep in mind this is before the idea of the butterfly. Modern goaltending is years years years different.
Back then it was all athleticism. Now it is positioning, angles, and percentage plays. Most shots had a goaltender lunging with one leg for the puck leaving gaping fiveholes. That was considered the best and most prevalent style.
in the final game of the 1984 Canada Cup.... Peeters played badly.
guess who came in to relieve him? Reggie Lemelin.
So Fuhr was the #3 guy on the depth chart in the 1984 Canada Cup.
which was basically a bullshit event designed to have Team Canada win it any way.
On February 01 2014 12:36 Slaughter wrote: This little discussion made me look up his stats out of curiosity. Makes me marvel at how the game has changed since that day. His raw stats are shit tier by today's standards lol. I wonder what the league avg for SV% was in those days.
rather than just look at stats.
just check out this game here.
Fuhr never did anything like Billy Smith did in this game.
Keep in mind that Roland Melanson had "better stats" than BIlly Smith in 1983 and yet, the coach went with Billy Smith. Stats can only tell you so much.
Billy Smith had a reputation as a total dog fucker in the regular season.
Despite Melanson having "better stats" than Billy Smith... does anyone in their right mind think Melason > Smith.
Try to get any member of the NYI to say Melanson > Smith, they'll laugh in your face.
I was simply making an observation about how the game has changed. Its very obvious just by looking at numbers of one prominent goalie of the era. I said nothing about his ability.
On February 01 2014 13:22 Slaughter wrote: I was simply making an observation about how the game has changed. Its very obvious just by looking at numbers of one prominent goalie of the era. I said nothing about his ability.
Don't rope me into this.
np, i'm just saying that stats only mean so much.
"stats" are better than nothing. however, the best way to judge a player is by direct observation.
so back to retarded contracts: Ryana Callahan apparently wants 6 million dollars for 7 years. What is this kid smoking. You are a 2nd liner at best, you play a style that has already gotten you injured and will continue to chip away at you. And you are 28.
On February 02 2014 07:53 Sub40APM wrote: so back to retarded contracts: Ryana Callahan apparently wants 6 million dollars for 7 years. What is this kid smoking. You are a 2nd liner at best, you play a style that has already gotten you injured and will continue to chip away at you. And you are 28.
And on the UFA market he will get that exact price because someone is always dumb enough to pay. Might even be a bidding war....
cant trade him fast enough if that's what he's asking. that's insane. dude is good in his end, willing to block anything, but he isn't exactly a dynamic offensive force and he's hurt more often than not because of how he plays.
imo, he's like a more defensively reliable Kunitz. Aggressive on the forecheck, skilled enough that he fits in on a top line but gritty enough to go into the tough spots and get goals. Defintiely not worth 6m a year for any term though. I agree that he's the type of player who will really lose a major step in 3-4 years because of how he plays. That kind of money should be reserved for forwards who can consistently put up near a ppg.
On February 02 2014 08:52 QuanticHawk wrote: cant trade him fast enough if that's what he's asking. that's insane. dude is good in his end, willing to block anything, but he isn't exactly a dynamic offensive force and he's hurt more often than not because of how he plays.
imo, he's like a more defensively reliable Kunitz. Aggressive on the forecheck, skilled enough that he fits in on a top line but gritty enough to go into the tough spots and get goals. Defintiely not worth 6m a year for any term though. I agree that he's the type of player who will really lose a major step in 3-4 years because of how he plays. That kind of money should be reserved for forwards who can consistently put up near a ppg.
Maybe in the East. In the West he is a mildly undersized second line defensive winger. Now playing in New York might mean that he never had the chance to develop an offensive game but unless we are talking about Crosby now or the Sedin's 4 years ago bouncing pucks off his face into the net he is no first line winger. The guy is a 5 million, 4 year contract max. It is amazing to see New York finally found a contract so stupid even they wont sign, but no worries, I am sure Edmonton is snatching at the chance to cement their status as the worst managed team in league history by signing him.
On February 02 2014 08:52 QuanticHawk wrote: cant trade him fast enough if that's what he's asking. that's insane. dude is good in his end, willing to block anything, but he isn't exactly a dynamic offensive force and he's hurt more often than not because of how he plays.
imo, he's like a more defensively reliable Kunitz. Aggressive on the forecheck, skilled enough that he fits in on a top line but gritty enough to go into the tough spots and get goals. Defintiely not worth 6m a year for any term though. I agree that he's the type of player who will really lose a major step in 3-4 years because of how he plays. That kind of money should be reserved for forwards who can consistently put up near a ppg.
Maybe in the East. In the West he is a mildly undersized second line defensive winger. Now playing in New York might mean that he never had the chance to develop an offensive game but unless we are talking about Crosby now or the Sedin's 4 years ago bouncing pucks off his face into the net he is no first line winger. The guy is a 5 million, 4 year contract max. It is amazing to see New York finally found a contract so stupid even they wont sign, but no worries, I am sure Edmonton is snatching at the chance to cement their status as the worst managed team in league history by signing him.
I can already see the writing on the contract: 7years 7 million NMC.
Also Edmonton doesn't need to cement itself as the worst manage team. That foundation dried years ago and they mearly constructing the monument ala Mad Mike
EPT
