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On June 12 2013 23:55 Silvanel wrote:
Yeah, because You know my friends so well....A friend of mine has a black boyfriend (shes a white girl) i am going to tell her she is fucking racist because she doesnt support gay rights....
Thats just one example. You are talking nonsense dude.
I'm not a racist! One of my best friends is black! HAHAHAHA Not saying she is a racist, but jesus christ your logic wouldn't last in elementary school much less in the adult world.
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On June 12 2013 23:59 ZeRoX-45 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 23:33 Reason wrote:On June 12 2013 23:29 ZeRoX-45 wrote:On June 12 2013 23:27 DertoQq wrote:On June 12 2013 23:15 ZeRoX-45 wrote:On June 12 2013 22:59 Reason wrote:On June 12 2013 22:56 ZeRoX-45 wrote:On June 12 2013 22:53 Reason wrote:On June 12 2013 22:51 ZeRoX-45 wrote:On June 12 2013 22:40 DarkLordOlli wrote:
[quote]
It's not their responsibility to change themselves for society or move away because they're not accepted. That line of thought is straight from the 13th century. It's society's job to accept people the way they are as long as they do no harm to others. And I don't know about anyone else but I don't feel especially harmed when I meet a homosexual person. Well, try to come here or Ukraine, Russia, Georgia on pride. Then you will understand what I am talking about. It's not 13th century it's different opinion. Just if westerners think gay is ok, it doesen't mean it actually is acceptable to everyone. Not everyone are same. Yeah, some people are racist or homophobic, what's your point? If 90% of people are homophobic, country can't protect pride. Neither gay people, ergo, parade would be more damaging than useful. That's my point. But it differs from west (and 90% of posters aren't from few named countries) and that's why I am fighting the wind here. Don't act or speak out against racism if you live in a racist country. Don't act or speak out against homophobia if you live in a homophobic country. Is that your message? It's a poor one. No, my message is that our countries aren't identical in every matter and you can't compare pride in London and pride here. It has nothing to do with your country, it has everything to do with YOU. If you started not to be homophobic like 90% of your people, it would be a big improvement already. And you know what the best thing is ? You don't even have to do anything about it ! Just stay in front of your computer screen and be like "hu? maybe I was wrong, gay people should also have rights !". And when the time comes and you have kids, tell them that. Enough people do that and you solved the homophobic problem in your country ! Actually I am doing it, I am just stating reasons behind this law. Society isnt ready for it and you cant force people to be gay friendly in a few years. About gay rights, I cant agree with all, as much as I couldnt agree if people who does sex with animals (which would be some kinda new topic but it's example) would want ALL the rights. So instead of forcing people to be gay friendly you go completely the other direction and encourage homophobia? Don't equate homosexuality with bestiality unless you want to discredit yourself even further than you already have. If I was cynical brit now I would say, forcing people to be gay friendly would be discriminatory towards straight. But I am not impolite as you sir. No one talked about encouraging homophobia, but if it's easier to insult then think, go for it.
Please don't try to associate your incredibly narrow-minded and bigoted views with TotalBiscuit's brand name.
Thanks.
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I cannot believe people are actually taking FiWiFaKi's post seriously but w/e. This thread gone completely obnoxious already.
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I'm just going to stop posting guys, didn't think I'd get this much hate.
I never said I believe all I said, I was offering a different perspective, and just some food for thought, because just as some people look at gay's as "sub humans", you guys look at anti-gays as "sub humans", when you aren't understanding their logic. I was trying to get into their shoes and find their arguments and perspectives, and MANY of the posts just tried and argue my point by not even pointing out flaws in my logic, instead, calling my a sociopath, loling, etc.
So whatever, that's what you get when you try and provoke some thoughts.
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On June 12 2013 23:33 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Holy shit, finally something is being done.
So sick of this Gay movement thing all over the world, people are too squishy here, wanting to make everything fair and equal, they should know by now this isn't how the world operates.
If you are ontop of the food chain, why do you feel bad for all others to try and even everything out, I never understood it. Many examples are of this. Say you are a western white man, why do you all of the sudden feel:
1) Woman should have equal rights to you
2) No more slaves
3) We should feed starving people in Africa
4) Go liberalize the middle east or something
5) Give equal rights to homosexuals and bisexuals
6) No more animal cruelty
7) Helping incompetent disabled people
Not being a troll or anything, but seriously, if you are well off, why do you try and make everyone equal and make you poor in the process? Survival of the fittest, top of the food chain survives - which is the majority in the society. Maybe this is a crazy perspective, and I don't fully embrace it, but why is everyone so negative about this law? Are all the homosexuals on TL posting? Since to me everyone takes the group that is the well off, takes them as suckers, and tries to get to their level. And people buy that shit. Russia putting the hammer down, so good on them.
u read to much crazy nietzsche my friend
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On June 13 2013 00:01 FiWiFaKi wrote:
I'm just going to stop posting guys, didn't think I'd get this much hate.
I never said I believe all I said, I was offering a different perspective, and just some food for thought, because just as some people look at gay's as "sub humans", you guys look at anti-gays as "sub humans", when you aren't understanding their logic. I was trying to get into their shoes and find their arguments and perspectives, and MANY of the posts just tried and argue my point by not even pointing out flaws in my logic, instead, calling my a sociopath, loling, etc.
So whatever, that's what you get when you try and provoke some thoughts.
You didn't think you would get much hate condoning slavery and oppression? Clearly you are not at the top of the food chain.
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On June 13 2013 00:01 FiWiFaKi wrote:
I'm just going to stop posting guys, didn't think I'd get this much hate.
I never said I believe all I said, I was offering a different perspective, and just some food for thought, because just as some people look at gay's as "sub humans", you guys look at anti-gays as "sub humans", when you aren't understanding their logic. I was trying to get into their shoes and find their arguments and perspectives, and MANY of the posts just tried and argue my point by not even pointing out flaws in my logic, instead, calling my a sociopath, loling, etc.
So whatever, that's what you get when you try and provoke some thoughts.
That's when you get when you present a fairly poorly-worded argument and at no point mention "i do not identify with this school of thought, but it would be interesting to understand their viewpoints" etc etc.
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United States24779 Posts
On June 12 2013 23:56 eScaper-tsunami wrote:
I don't see what's the big deal. Talking about sex to a kid is already a much avoided subject between adults and children. Well it's okay to say 'most children have a mommy and a daddy, and they love each other' and not okay to describe heterosexual intercourse in detail. The same applies to discussions about homosexuality. It's okay to acknowledge that two men or two women can be boyfriends or girlfriends, without describing how they have sex. It's a copout to support this law by saying children shouldn't have this stuff explained to them since we already do it appropriately for heterosexual relations. Teaching kids about homosexuality and homosexuals is going to be just as awkward. Definitely can be true (doesn't have be). I guess the correct response, rather than dealing with it, is to unfairly oppress huge groups of people.
Imagine you're the teacher in a class and you're teaching sex ed You generally don't teach sex ed until the students are 15-16 and by then they can handle this stuff. and a some darn kid decide to ask is doing a guy or a girl better. You can tell them the question is inappropriate for class. Why is it okay for your student to ask you about who is better to do? You can be neutral, and say they're both good, then the kid asks you "which one do you do?" And before you know it, you got parents bombarding you. With this law implemented, it makes it easy for educators, even if it's not true. This ridiculous law is not necessary for a half-way competent teacher to deal with such a situation.
Hell, anyone who pursuit sciences and engineering knows that the simple formulas and models aren't true and yet we're teaching them because we have to start somewhere. So unless someone wants to say with 100% confidence how we should teach our kids about homosexuals with minimal effect on altering their sexuality then I don't see why avoiding the whole subject at all should be bad. So it's okay to discuss heterosexuality but not homosexuality? The comparison to formulas that simplify situations is a bit ridiculous. I can use the same logic to discuss almost everything I like, and ban discussing almost everything I don't like.
You really should re-evaluate this issue and be more open minded about it.
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Does he not know how food chains even work?
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On June 12 2013 23:59 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 23:55 Silvanel wrote:
Yeah, because You know my friends so well....A friend of mine has a black boyfriend (shes a white girl) i am going to tell her she is fucking racist because she doesnt support gay rights....
Thats just one example. You are talking nonsense dude. I'm not a racist! One of my best friends is black! HAHAHAHA Not saying she is a racist, but jesus christ your logic wouldn't last in elementary school much less in the adult world.
Dude You have some serious problems with understanding what You read. You say You cant be against gay rights and not racist, i say You can. I know such people... You might not belive me, thats one thing. But judging from Your post You are not even able to comprahend what i am saying.
And my logic is working just fine for me thank You.
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Today is my 32nd birthday, and the first time I've ever been embarrassed about a thread on TL. I have been a reader for years, (jaedong fighting) but I don't really post on here, because I always feel like I have missed the boat, and don't have time to read the 15 pages of posts and spot where someone smarter than me already posted my point on a topic. Generally, I brag about the readers and posters of this website to my non-video gaming friends. The intelligence it takes to get out of silver sort of implies that you are smarter than most people who walk around this earth, and yet far too many posts in this thread seem to be missing the point about this law.
I don't know much about Russia, but to me, this is about information and education. Is it illegal to inform children about the existence of bears? Is it illegal to inform children about the existence of Jesus? Whether you think being gay is wrong or not, whether you think it's a mental defect, or a choice only an adult can make, whether or not you want them prancing about next to your coffee shop, they exist, and frankly, throwing eggs at them is enough to prove they exist. If they chose this sinful lifestyle, or are subject to mother nature's attempt to thin the population, or are just real life trolls who want to defile the sanctity of marriage or even humanity, it is still hard to argue that they exist. To deny children the information about what exists is far more appalling than any ignorant person's opinion or belief.
I can argue about the existence of Jesus, and of Heaven and Hell, because there is very little evidence of any of it. It is impossible to argue that people who believe in this stuff exist, because they are flesh and blood human beings breathing the same air that I breathe. Are there other precedents of Russia suppressing any other reality based information like this? To attempt to put an entire generation into denial reminds me that there must be some country that tries to deny that the German Holocaust ever happened. A lot of time and money is spent in this country to inform children about "stranger danger," to address a small percentage of adults that want to kidnap and or molest small children. I would argue that this is in many ways a waste of money, but it is impossible for me to put myself into denial about the existence of dangerous strangers. At what age is it appropriate for a child to learn that unicorns or dragons don't exist? At what age is it appropriate for children to learn that poisonous berries exist? I venture to say that I would be less appalled if Russia passed a law to actively inform children that homosexuality is a terrible sin or a blight on society, because at least it doesn't require, by law, that you lie to children when they ask very innocent questions.
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On June 12 2013 23:59 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 23:59 ZeRoX-45 wrote:On June 12 2013 23:33 Reason wrote:On June 12 2013 23:29 ZeRoX-45 wrote:On June 12 2013 23:27 DertoQq wrote:On June 12 2013 23:15 ZeRoX-45 wrote:On June 12 2013 22:59 Reason wrote:On June 12 2013 22:56 ZeRoX-45 wrote:On June 12 2013 22:53 Reason wrote:On June 12 2013 22:51 ZeRoX-45 wrote:
[quote]
Well, try to come here or Ukraine, Russia, Georgia on pride. Then you will understand what I am talking about. It's not 13th century it's different opinion. Just if westerners think gay is ok, it doesen't mean it actually is acceptable to everyone. Not everyone are same.
Yeah, some people are racist or homophobic, what's your point? If 90% of people are homophobic, country can't protect pride. Neither gay people, ergo, parade would be more damaging than useful. That's my point. But it differs from west (and 90% of posters aren't from few named countries) and that's why I am fighting the wind here. Don't act or speak out against racism if you live in a racist country. Don't act or speak out against homophobia if you live in a homophobic country. Is that your message? It's a poor one. No, my message is that our countries aren't identical in every matter and you can't compare pride in London and pride here. It has nothing to do with your country, it has everything to do with YOU. If you started not to be homophobic like 90% of your people, it would be a big improvement already. And you know what the best thing is ? You don't even have to do anything about it ! Just stay in front of your computer screen and be like "hu? maybe I was wrong, gay people should also have rights !". And when the time comes and you have kids, tell them that. Enough people do that and you solved the homophobic problem in your country ! Actually I am doing it, I am just stating reasons behind this law. Society isnt ready for it and you cant force people to be gay friendly in a few years. About gay rights, I cant agree with all, as much as I couldnt agree if people who does sex with animals (which would be some kinda new topic but it's example) would want ALL the rights. So instead of forcing people to be gay friendly you go completely the other direction and encourage homophobia? Don't equate homosexuality with bestiality unless you want to discredit yourself even further than you already have. If I was cynical brit now I would say, forcing people to be gay friendly would be discriminatory towards straight. But I am not impolite as you sir. No one talked about encouraging homophobia, but if it's easier to insult then think, go for it. Please don't try to associate your incredibly narrow-minded and bigoted views with TotalBiscuit's brand name. Thanks.
English wannabe who hates Orthodox church. I am sick of you people.
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On June 12 2013 23:59 ZeRoX-45 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 23:33 Reason wrote:On June 12 2013 23:29 ZeRoX-45 wrote:On June 12 2013 23:27 DertoQq wrote:On June 12 2013 23:15 ZeRoX-45 wrote:On June 12 2013 22:59 Reason wrote:On June 12 2013 22:56 ZeRoX-45 wrote:On June 12 2013 22:53 Reason wrote:On June 12 2013 22:51 ZeRoX-45 wrote:On June 12 2013 22:40 DarkLordOlli wrote:
[quote]
It's not their responsibility to change themselves for society or move away because they're not accepted. That line of thought is straight from the 13th century. It's society's job to accept people the way they are as long as they do no harm to others. And I don't know about anyone else but I don't feel especially harmed when I meet a homosexual person. Well, try to come here or Ukraine, Russia, Georgia on pride. Then you will understand what I am talking about. It's not 13th century it's different opinion. Just if westerners think gay is ok, it doesen't mean it actually is acceptable to everyone. Not everyone are same. Yeah, some people are racist or homophobic, what's your point? If 90% of people are homophobic, country can't protect pride. Neither gay people, ergo, parade would be more damaging than useful. That's my point. But it differs from west (and 90% of posters aren't from few named countries) and that's why I am fighting the wind here. Don't act or speak out against racism if you live in a racist country. Don't act or speak out against homophobia if you live in a homophobic country. Is that your message? It's a poor one. No, my message is that our countries aren't identical in every matter and you can't compare pride in London and pride here. It has nothing to do with your country, it has everything to do with YOU. If you started not to be homophobic like 90% of your people, it would be a big improvement already. And you know what the best thing is ? You don't even have to do anything about it ! Just stay in front of your computer screen and be like "hu? maybe I was wrong, gay people should also have rights !". And when the time comes and you have kids, tell them that. Enough people do that and you solved the homophobic problem in your country ! Actually I am doing it, I am just stating reasons behind this law. Society isnt ready for it and you cant force people to be gay friendly in a few years. About gay rights, I cant agree with all, as much as I couldnt agree if people who does sex with animals (which would be some kinda new topic but it's example) would want ALL the rights. So instead of forcing people to be gay friendly you go completely the other direction and encourage homophobia? Don't equate homosexuality with bestiality unless you want to discredit yourself even further than you already have. If I was cynical brit now I would say, forcing people to be gay friendly would be discriminatory towards straight. But I am not impolite as you sir. No one talked about encouraging homophobia, but if it's easier to insult then think, go for it.
This law encourages homophobia, you said you can't force people to be gay friendly. Fine. That doesn't mean you force them in the other direction either. That was the point.
Also, "forcing" straight people to be gay friendly isn't discriminatory towards straight people because straight people aren't inherently homophobic.
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On June 13 2013 00:06 ZeRoX-45 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 23:59 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 12 2013 23:59 ZeRoX-45 wrote:On June 12 2013 23:33 Reason wrote:On June 12 2013 23:29 ZeRoX-45 wrote:On June 12 2013 23:27 DertoQq wrote:On June 12 2013 23:15 ZeRoX-45 wrote:On June 12 2013 22:59 Reason wrote:On June 12 2013 22:56 ZeRoX-45 wrote:On June 12 2013 22:53 Reason wrote:
[quote]
Yeah, some people are racist or homophobic, what's your point?
If 90% of people are homophobic, country can't protect pride. Neither gay people, ergo, parade would be more damaging than useful. That's my point. But it differs from west (and 90% of posters aren't from few named countries) and that's why I am fighting the wind here. Don't act or speak out against racism if you live in a racist country. Don't act or speak out against homophobia if you live in a homophobic country. Is that your message? It's a poor one. No, my message is that our countries aren't identical in every matter and you can't compare pride in London and pride here. It has nothing to do with your country, it has everything to do with YOU. If you started not to be homophobic like 90% of your people, it would be a big improvement already. And you know what the best thing is ? You don't even have to do anything about it ! Just stay in front of your computer screen and be like "hu? maybe I was wrong, gay people should also have rights !". And when the time comes and you have kids, tell them that. Enough people do that and you solved the homophobic problem in your country ! Actually I am doing it, I am just stating reasons behind this law. Society isnt ready for it and you cant force people to be gay friendly in a few years. About gay rights, I cant agree with all, as much as I couldnt agree if people who does sex with animals (which would be some kinda new topic but it's example) would want ALL the rights. So instead of forcing people to be gay friendly you go completely the other direction and encourage homophobia? Don't equate homosexuality with bestiality unless you want to discredit yourself even further than you already have. If I was cynical brit now I would say, forcing people to be gay friendly would be discriminatory towards straight. But I am not impolite as you sir. No one talked about encouraging homophobia, but if it's easier to insult then think, go for it. Please don't try to associate your incredibly narrow-minded and bigoted views with TotalBiscuit's brand name. Thanks. English wannabe who hates Orthodox church. I am sick of you people.
And yet I'm the one who posts ad hominems, right?
Just FYI, I bear disdain for all churches equally.
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On June 12 2013 23:53 theking1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 23:46 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
It has nothing to do with religion.
Russia's population is dying. The death rate is much much higher than the birth rate, and the exorbitant amount of death during the Eastern front of World War II is remembered constantly by especially the older generation, which forms a considerable part of the Duma.
The result of this is that Russia is desperate to stabilize its population. I haven't seen it personally but I believe there is a government stipend for having a child on June 12, Russia Day. The point of all of this is that some in the government really want people to increase the birth rate, almost making it a patriotic duty.
Putin went on CNN before and said he was publicly discouraging homosexuality in an effort to encourage all to reproduce and possibly increase Russia's population. This is just an extension of that belief. The Church may support it and conservatives may support it but this is the underlying cause for a lot of the support among middle aged and older Russians.
I originally lived in Moscow and visit there at least once a year, my mom especially likes discussing this issue when it's brought up. So the 150 million population of Russia can not multiply because of a few hundred homosexuals.God damnit so thats the new excuse.A few gay people having sex in their bedrooms prevent 150 million russians form having sex.Where do homophobes come up with this stuff.Putin is a politician he needs the church to subdue the masses.But really homosexuals being responsible for depopulation.Thats a new one.
Many atheists in Russia are still homophobic. The Church might subdue the people who already have homophobic tendencies - the older generations. The population rose for the first time since 1991 last year so any growth is good growth. I'm not arguing that it's not a stupid decision because it is. I'm saying that there is a rationale for the government to do this besides the usual "church/quelling dissenters/medieval bigotry" rationale for what is going on here.
And there is way more than a few hundred gays in the country.
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I really think that, though there are some universal things like tolerance, this shows that is more society than any kind of universal standard that sets the bar for what is tolerated. While the west increasingly looks at homosexuality in an at least neutral light, the east hasn't found that the issue deserves tolerance. This is definitely a cultural thing IMO.
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On June 12 2013 23:45 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 23:38 Cinim wrote:On June 12 2013 23:33 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Holy shit, finally something is being done.
So sick of this Gay movement thing all over the world, people are too squishy here, wanting to make everything fair and equal, they should know by now this isn't how the world operates.
If you are ontop of the food chain, why do you feel bad for all others to try and even everything out, I never understood it. Many examples are of this. Say you are a western white man, why do you all of the sudden feel:
1) Woman should have equal rights to you
2) No more slaves
3) We should feed starving people in Africa
4) Go liberalize the middle east or something
5) Give equal rights to homosexuals and bisexuals
6) No more animal cruelty
7) Helping incompetent disabled people
Not being a troll or anything, but seriously, if you are well off, why do you try and make everyone equal and make you poor in the process? Survival of the fittest, top of the food chain survives - which is the majority in the society. Maybe this is a crazy perspective, and I don't fully embrace it, but why is everyone so negative about this law? Are all the homosexuals on TL posting? Since to me everyone takes the group that is the well off, takes them as suckers, and tries to get to their level. And people buy that shit. Russia putting the hammer down, so good on them. The name already reveals the troll No it doesn't. But do explain, when a couple people share a voice about equality, why does everyone start to agree with them, and raise their voice to aid them. The only person you're screwing over with it is yourself(assuming you are straight). I'm trying to find reasoning for this topic to be such an important topic to people. I've stayed out of this until now, because its like really... are we still going on about this? Why do people care so much? EDIT: I'm trying to offer the more "radical" perspective here, just so people can actually have a second to think, no need to bash me for what I said. LOTS of people think what we don't here if it gets banned in countries, its not as if they don't have a brain. So analyze before you say the Russians are dumb/crazy/etc, and make an education decision whether it's a bad or good decision before being anti gay=awful. Maybe it's good for the common good in Russia.
Screwing everyone when you are at the top can turn out to be a horrible idea of the roles are turned at some point. Also most men know and care for women, why would you not support a world that give them equal rights to you? Same with gay's, I know a couple and they are good people and have been good to me, why wouldn't I support their desire to be accepted and be able to marry (or whatever it may be)? I fail to see how this are "screwing myself over".
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All marriage should be banned because its a stupid religious tradition thats unnatural. Why do people become militant athiests these days and yet still want to get married.. mind blowing.
You don't need a ring and a priest to make your love official, gay people should be fighting for marriage to be removed from law, not for marriage to be allowed by gay/lesbians.
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Why is russia and africa more evolved then 1st world countries... i don't even...
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On June 13 2013 00:05 Silvanel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 23:59 Klondikebar wrote:On June 12 2013 23:55 Silvanel wrote:
Yeah, because You know my friends so well....A friend of mine has a black boyfriend (shes a white girl) i am going to tell her she is fucking racist because she doesnt support gay rights....
Thats just one example. You are talking nonsense dude. I'm not a racist! One of my best friends is black! HAHAHAHA Not saying she is a racist, but jesus christ your logic wouldn't last in elementary school much less in the adult world. Dude You have some serious problems with understanding what You read. You say You cant be against gay rights and not racist, i say You can. I know such people... You might not belive me, thats one thing. But judging from Your post You are not even able to comprahend what i am saying. And my logic is working just fine for me thank You.
I said it's highly unlikely that you can be a bigot in one way and not any other way. I bet if you poked at your friend you'd fine she had some notions based on bigotry. And of course your logic is working fine for you, it always works just fine for bigots.
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EPT
