i just want to start an objective discussion about this topic.

http://www.statisticbrain.com/countries-with-the-highest-lowest-average-iq/

i just noticed that there's a correlation between a region's average iq and the popular idea that KR>EU>NA in sc2 performance. i just want to know people's thoughts about this amusing (for me) detail. any thoughts/ideas/objections/whatever are welcome.

no racist remarks please.

mods, please feel free to close this thread if starts to turn ugly.

thanks and i appreciate your thoughts in advance

ChaiNs

57 Posts

June 05 2013 04:16 GMT

This correlation is highly questionable. The average IQ of a region is much much much much broader than the average sc2 performance of that region. Like, orders of magnitude away from being accurate or relevant.

Fuchsteufelswild

Australia2028 Posts

June 05 2013 04:18 GMT

Not really and you're basing it on averages, which really doesn't cover all the very many different people there are, in each country, nor the different IQ scores different players from the same countries might have.

In addition, I rather doubt your average "TL goer" or starcraft player thinks they are of only average intelligence.

I, at least, suspect there is no correlation between AVERAGE IQ and the performances of individuals who happen to be from whatever countries.

SnipedSoul

Canada2158 Posts

June 05 2013 04:20 GMT

Less than half a standard deviation between highest and lowest IQ doesn't mean anything to me.

larse

1611 Posts

June 05 2013 04:20 GMT

This type of data on mass media is just not reliable enough. What's its methodology? Nothing. What's its details of collecting data? Nothing. And if you know anything about academic studies, all these concepts, measurements, and data gatherings are always controversial and debatable. You can always find competing data, methods, and findings. You can't just make this big generalization by using a unreliable data on mass media.

ETisME

12702 Posts

June 05 2013 04:21 GMT

except SC2 is not just about strategy, it's a lot on mechanics which helps to execute your strategy better.
not to mention the EQ factor, such as it takes lot of patience to not collapse down to the constant drops in ZvT

sluggaslamoo

Australia4494 Posts

June 05 2013 04:23 GMT

Not so much IQ but brain patterns have been said to be different in Flash and Xellos to normal progamers.

farvacola

United States18856 Posts

June 05 2013 04:24 GMT

On June 05 2013 13:20 SnipedSoul wrote:
Less than half a standard deviation between highest and lowest IQ doesn't mean anything to me.

^, the stats do not provide a meaningful basis with which to discuss this topic in a way that avoids abject prejudice and what will amount to name calling.

lichter

1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts

June 05 2013 04:25 GMT

IQ is a highly arguable (and often unreliable) measure of real, applicable intelligence. So I hardly think there's much to gain from directly comparing just IQ and SC2 skills.

theMagus

578 Posts

June 05 2013 04:26 GMT

#10

On June 05 2013 13:20 larse wrote:
This type of data on mass media is just not reliable enough. What's its methodology? Nothing. What's its details of collecting data? Nothing. And if you know anything about academic studies, all these concepts, measurements, and data gatherings are always controversial and debatable. You can always find competing data, methods, and findings. You can't just make this big generalization by using a unreliable data on mass media.

i honestly don't know but a lot of other sites confirm this data. i don't know their methodologies either though

Spriki

216 Posts

June 05 2013 04:26 GMT

#11

there was a documentary about Mvp's rise in starcraft (forgot the title though) and during an interview his parents said that their son was academically poor that's why they supported him becoming a progamer

So, IQ has noting to do with it. It mostly comes down to game sense and understanding

figq

12519 Posts

June 05 2013 04:27 GMT

#12

I think performance in SC2 is a better measure of performance in SC2 and already readily available and accessible.

Also, never forget correlation doesn't imply causation. You could assume the implication "IQ->sc2skill", but it could be rather some property X (say nation wealth) for which "X->IQ" and "X->sc2skill".

theMagus

578 Posts

June 05 2013 04:28 GMT

#13

On June 05 2013 13:26 Spriki wrote:
there was a documentary about Mvp's rise in starcraft (forgot the title though) and during an interview his parents said that their son was academically poor that's why they supported him becoming a progamer

So, IQ has noting to do with it. It mostly comes down to game sense and understanding

i would argue that academic performance isn't solely dictated by IQ either. it has more to do with effort and passion in learning.

Insomni7

667 Posts

June 05 2013 04:29 GMT

#14

If you look at the actual gaps in IQ between the top 20 countries or so, there really isnt much difference at all. Indeed it would make more sense to group all these countries together as having effectively identical IQs. I really don't think this means anything.

skullnite

12 Posts

June 05 2013 04:31 GMT

#15

So for all those wondering the data comes from this study: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations

But I agree this really doesn't say anything about individual people. The difference in the averages are very small in comparison to the variation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_classification. As you can see all the revalent nations fall within the "normal" category. So this data really isn't useful for the analysis you wish to do. That doesn't specifically mean your hypothesis is incorrect but this data does not support it

L3gendary

Canada1470 Posts

June 05 2013 04:31 GMT

#16

The reason korea has the best players is because starcraft was insanely popular there and they developed pro teams where players would spend 8-12 hours a day playing the game. It has nothing to do with IQ. Look at the nationalities of chess players if you want to quickly refute this idea.

theMagus

578 Posts

June 05 2013 04:33 GMT

#17

On June 05 2013 13:31 L3gendary wrote:
The reason korea has the best players is because starcraft was insanely popular there and they developed pro teams where players would spend 8-12 hours a day playing the game. It has nothing to do with IQ. Look at the nationalities of chess players if you want to quickly refute this idea.

don't you think at all that korea having the 2nd highest average IQ has a lot to do with starcraft becoming a very popular game in their country to begin with?

DDie

Brazil2369 Posts

June 05 2013 04:34 GMT

#18

SC2 is a niche game (and so are others RTS's), the IQ of an average player in the americas is probably in the same range of a korean one.

opterown

Australia54784 Posts

June 05 2013 04:35 GMT

#19

On June 05 2013 13:33 theMagus wrote:

Show nested quote +

don't you think at all that korea having the 2nd highest average IQ has a lot to do with starcraft becoming a very popular game in their country to begin with?

it might be well due to other factors though, like how korea is fairly densely populated and that starcraft came at the right timee to grow in pc bangs there etc

Chairman Ray

United States11903 Posts

June 05 2013 04:36 GMT

#20

I think it's pretty obvious that a person with higher IQ will have a higher likelihood than a person with lower IQ to perform well at Starcraft, seeing as how some of the core mechanics of Starcraft is exactly what IQ tests seek to measure. However, I fail to see how the average IQ of a country would incite any sort of discussion, seeing as how Starcraft players are individual people.