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On May 21 2013 05:59 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2013 05:57 Redmark wrote:On May 21 2013 05:52 Northern_iight wrote:
answer? because jumping onto bandwagons is the cool thing to do!
People here have their opinions, that they're pro gay and shit but in real life, nothing they do reflects their opinions. People say shit (especially on TL/internet) just to stay relevant. lol what? I'm not one to start going crazy over CALL THE SPONSORS and such but this thread is disturbingly reactionary. If people object to the company on moral grounds then that's their right. What's all this psychoanalyzing BS about young people and liberals? Having a political opinion makes you a hivemind now? He's saying that no one was complaining about PJ here on the SC2 forum, and rarely if ever in the General Forum. But now there's a lot of anger came "out of nowhere" and hence it looks (and is) a very bandwagon thing.
Because most people on TL didn't give a shit about them but now they just trying to throw money at us " for the good at esport" So now we have to take a stand!
To be frankly If a company like Papa Johns is here to "save Esport" ill rather have Esport fails then succeed!
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On May 21 2013 05:59 ch33psh33p wrote:
God OP, are you really so blind as to be unable to answer your own question?
Why should people support companies that don't align with their views? Who are you to tell them otherwise? eSports isn't a charity.
But why do people CARE? Papa Johns has their opinions. Why are people demonizing them for exorcizing that right. Nobody gets pissed off when the Salvation Army expresses their "controversial" views. Want to know why? Because the Salvation Army does its job by helping people and helping EVERYONE. Papa Johns does not discriminate in hiring people nor does it refuse service to people they see as undesirable. Papa Johns officials merely STATED OPINIONS. It's not like they denied service to gay men or refused to hire lesbians. They didn't do that. They stated OPINIONS. Are you really going to boycott a company for stating OPINIONS. That quite literally makes no sense.
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On May 21 2013 05:42 yeeshdontjudgeme wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2013 05:35 Aristotle7 wrote:
Because most kids are liberals, and Papa Johns isn't. QED I find this ironic. Aren't liberals the ones that should be touting "I HAVE A RIGHT TO AN OPINION" They're the ones that yap the most. That right that they're trying to take away from companies like Papa Johns is the same one that's driving their agendas.
I don't really have a particular stance of this, but freedom of speech is about you being allowed to express your opinion, which he did. It is not there to protect you from consequences from whatever you say.
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Im not sure, i dont have a decision to make as Papa John's does not sell in the Netherlands. Their publicly backing Romney and resenting the Obamacare isn't to my liking, but i'm also feeling if this becomes a succes more big companies are willing to venture into eSports.
Although, what i do dislike seeing is Incontrol white-knighting a company which has such questionable morals on twitter argueing with 2GD who brought up the same articles that are pointed out here.
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On May 21 2013 06:00 suicideyear wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2013 05:57 .kv wrote:
have to realize there are people out there that complain just for the sake of complaining no one can ever have a legitimate gripe right it's always just people complaining for the sake of it always the scene is so obsessed with trying to become mainstream~ that it's willing to bend over for any shitty company who waves a couple dollar bills just as papa john's is allowed to have their opinions i'm allowed to have the opinion that this is stupid
Wait--so someone who thinks differently than you is not allowed to support things that you also support?
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On May 21 2013 06:00 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2013 05:57 Redmark wrote:On May 21 2013 05:52 Northern_iight wrote:
answer? because jumping onto bandwagons is the cool thing to do!
People here have their opinions, that they're pro gay and shit but in real life, nothing they do reflects their opinions. People say shit (especially on TL/internet) just to stay relevant. lol what? I'm not one to start going crazy over CALL THE SPONSORS and such but this thread is disturbingly reactionary. If people object to the company on moral grounds then that's their right. What's all this psychoanalyzing BS about young people and liberals? Having a political opinion makes you a hivemind now? Its pizza. They are sponsored by pizza who's owner happened to have an opinion that he made public and some people didn't like. But at the end of the day, its still pizza. As my father would say: "This? This is the thing we have decided to care about today?"
Completely agree with this. Hell it's the guys personal view, he is perfectly entitled to it, and taking revenge on his business because you disagree is not cool.
And frankly, Obamacare has enough holes in it that being against it shouldn't be a crime, but that's neither here nor there.
Esports becoming mainstream and having bigger players as sponsors is good, no matter what.
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On May 21 2013 05:52 Djzapz wrote:
I think it's fine to dislike and not want to support corporations which display opinions I'm fundamentally opposed to, regardless of the fact that their opinion has nothing to do with their business. There are other pizzerias which didn't openly behave like children, I'll do business with those when I can. I won't starve and I won't do business with a company owned by trash.
Physical and moral victory.
*drops mic and walks off stage*
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On May 21 2013 06:04 Zarahtra wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2013 05:42 yeeshdontjudgeme wrote:On May 21 2013 05:35 Aristotle7 wrote:
Because most kids are liberals, and Papa Johns isn't. QED I find this ironic. Aren't liberals the ones that should be touting "I HAVE A RIGHT TO AN OPINION" They're the ones that yap the most. That right that they're trying to take away from companies like Papa Johns is the same one that's driving their agendas. I don't really have a particular stance of this, but freedom of speech is about you being allowed to express your opinion, which he did. It is not there to protect you from consequences from whatever you say.
Technically, the first amendment of the US simply protects your speech from being impeded by the government. Protect our speech from each other is more general politeness and a "don't fuck with me" culture.
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You're probably right that people that go out of their way to hate on Papa Johns etc are probably assholes. However some of the points you're trying to make are a bit flawed.
Your basic point is that since Papa Johns is helping esports we shouldn't really be all that concerned what other causes the company supports. I think that's a really bad way to look at sponsorship. If the Westboro Baptist Church decided that they wanted to sponsor a team would you be alright with that? I'm not saying Papa Johns is anything like the WBC, and without having done too much research it seems like they don't really have any crazy controversial statements from the company (although I must say, boo homophobia). I think its important to emphasize though that we should care where the money is coming from and be mindful of who we're implicitly aligning ourselves with by taking it.
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Companies cannot have opinions.
It's not unusual to see individuals or companies getting called out for their opinions/statements, sometimes it's justified, sometimes it's a bit weird (movies not being successful because of religious leaders boycotting them?, sad that they are even relevant in 21st century). However pouring money into something shouldn't make people immune to criticism.
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I think it's hilarious that everyone attributes the dislike that people have for Papa John's with being liberal or loving drama.
Because it's not like Papa John's genuinely treats their employees like shit or anything...
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On May 21 2013 06:07 3772 wrote:
Companies cannot have opinions.
Not true in America companies are people!!!
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How can this be a bad thing for eSports? Cause Papa Johns wants to behave like a business? I don't think people understand how businesses work.
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On May 21 2013 06:07 3772 wrote:
Companies cannot have opinions.
Companies cannot have anything, they are owned by people. The owners have opinions and I don't agree with some of them. However, I do buy stuff that I like from them, because other people's opinions rarely stop me from doing anything.
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People have the right to disapprove a sponsor if they want to.
You can't say "it's for esports, we need money etc". There are tons of non controversial companies, i don't think esport have to take money regardless of the compagny. Ok it's not a gun compagny or a crazy-evil compagny like Monsanto, but it's a problem too.
We have a popular thread here on TL "gay starcraft player", and i think it's really paradoxal to say "TL community is really open to all, regardless of their race, nationality or sexual orientation" and "we work with a compagny which is known for homophobia and hates against gay people".
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People are complaining?? Oh, then, let me join the crowd: I want to complain that PJ's offer isn't worldwide.
edit: You know, at a difficult time for BW, some amateur tournaments were only possible because some pyramid scheme guy from Russia sponsored them. I'm still thankful that there was a sponsor for these events. Money for esports can't be bad.
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esports fans complain about everything, even if there is no problem, they'll just come up with one to complain about
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On May 21 2013 05:57 Redmark wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2013 05:52 Northern_iight wrote:
answer? because jumping onto bandwagons is the cool thing to do!
People here have their opinions, that they're pro gay and shit but in real life, nothing they do reflects their opinions. People say shit (especially on TL/internet) just to stay relevant. lol what? I'm not one to start going crazy over CALL THE SPONSORS and such but this thread is disturbingly reactionary. If people object to the company on moral grounds then that's their right. What's all this psychoanalyzing BS about young people and liberals? Having a political opinion makes you a hivemind now?
I have to say I very much agree with you (I chuckled reading that last line) but unfortunately most of our opinions are in fact reactionary.
I don't think many people juggle these thoughts in their every day lives, I don't think anyone really thinks about Papa Johns (haven't even had it once in my short life, neither do I know anything about them) and their political motivations and affiliations, but since something came up, all their stuff surfaces in people's minds and hence people talk about it.
Personally I think it's quite normal. People are inherently reactionary. However we should also be calm and accepting about other people's opinions. Perhaps it's really just like being a vegetarian: nothing really happen until someone asks you about it or you see some cruel animal video and everything gets whipped up again.
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On May 21 2013 06:05 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2013 06:00 suicideyear wrote:On May 21 2013 05:57 .kv wrote:
have to realize there are people out there that complain just for the sake of complaining no one can ever have a legitimate gripe right it's always just people complaining for the sake of it always the scene is so obsessed with trying to become mainstream~ that it's willing to bend over for any shitty company who waves a couple dollar bills just as papa john's is allowed to have their opinions i'm allowed to have the opinion that this is stupid Wait--so someone who thinks differently than you is not allowed to support things that you also support?
they certainly are allowed to
but just because they're pandering to us and Evil Geniuses "e-sports" will profit from it doesn't mean everything is suddenly ok
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EPT
