|
This thread made me want to check out the conspiracy theory websites all over the internet (I really wanted to slam my head against the keyboard, by the way). If you're well-versed in common sense, do not go there for your own safety. It hurts to read. A large part of the culture is basically cherry picking various articles insufficient amount of evidence and desperately attempting to use it to support your grand claim, which is already pieced together with other tiny pieces of information that only may or may not be related. If someone provides an overwhelming amount of evidence against your claim, that's the part where you say that evidence was planted by the government to cover up whatever they did. That's when you call your opponent SHEEPLE and then tell them that you hope they enjoy their trip to the FEMA concentration camp.
You can't win.
|
On February 19 2013 23:38 tryummm wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2013 23:34 emythrel wrote:On February 19 2013 23:09 Chilling5pr33 wrote:On February 19 2013 23:02 emythrel wrote:On February 19 2013 21:57 Tobberoth wrote:On February 19 2013 21:41 Chilling5pr33 wrote:On February 19 2013 21:37 Tobberoth wrote:On February 19 2013 21:12 Chilling5pr33 wrote:On February 19 2013 21:09 Tobberoth wrote:
A conspiracy theorist basically say "I could believe X, or I could believe Y. X if FAR more probable, so I'll believe Y". Which sounds quite irrational IMO. I think it isnt that easy they actually dont think one is more plausible than the other, they think the information leading to that conclusion is false and given knowingly. Of course they don't believe it's more plausible, just like a lot of insane people believe they are perfectly sane. The thing with conspiracy theories is that it doesn't matter if the information is given knowlingly. The fact that the conspiracy would have to be so massive is what makes it so improbable. Check the numbers on the people who have worked for NASA in relation to the moon landings. Now assume that every single one of them is lying about the moon landing, and has kept the secret that it's fake until now. That's all you need to realize how extremely improbable it is that the moon landings were faked, yet conspiracy theorists still believe that, for no apparent reason. Ha yes i believe they could have also tricked them and only the astronauts as well as the studio team know they werent on the moon, ofcourse its impossible all those people would shut down but what if the rocket just orbit earth few weeks and the part of question (the actual landing on the moon) is the part wich is lied about. The people working on it would actually believe everything went like shown in tv but 50 people know otherwise they are choosen becouse they are able to shut up and be quiet and let the rest of nasa/"The World" believe what they want to believe? I know the moon landing is real becouse i checked every data avaible and came to the conclusion they would have made some error on the way. And i dont start searching for them becouse we have those crazy conspiracy heads who would have found something to today as well as russia who has checked the data a 100 times probably ;D That just makes it even more improbable. Many of the people working at NASA had extremely complicated jobs and are expert scientists in their field. You're basically saying that for the conspiracy theory to make any sense, about 50 people together were able to fool all of those experts and simulate the real situation for them, while at the same time making fake footage from the moon and streaming live. It's so improbable that all the arguments against it happening suddenly become miniscule. You get to the point where actually going to the moon is easier than faking it. You don't even need to go down that line of thinking. The astronauts left stuff behind on the moon, they left reflectors that people on earth use to measure the distance to the moon, and we aren't talking about a select few who "say" they have done the experiment. Literally anyone with a good telescope and a powerful enough laser can do the experiment, including myself. A friend of mine works for a university, he once borrowed some equipment and took about 20 of us out in to the sticks and we spent the night bouncing lasers off the reflectors on the moon. Now I'm sure conspiracy theorists will say that the reflectors weren't put there by actual humans but were sent by rocket to help keep the conspiracy covered up, but why would you do that? Thousands of people were involved in going to the moon, the TV signal was relayed from the UK (Jodrell Bank observatory) back to the US when Armstrong landed, so basically you are saying that those people were either involved or tricked. The only problem with that being that Jodrell Bank confirmed the source of the transmission as being from the moon. Even Russia, engaged in the space race against the US and in the midst of the cold war, acknowledged the achievement. If it was good enough for the Russians, its good enough for everyone else. It would be so much easier to actually send people to the Moon, that faking it wouldn't be worth doing. There is no way you could keep it all under wraps, not to mention actually getting to the moon is pretty simple in space travel terms, all you need is a vessel and Newtons equations for gravity and motion. Having spent billions of dollars on a launch vehicle, how can anyone think they sent it up to the moon without any people on board? Why would you do that? I know the OP didn't mention this stuff, but its a pillar of the conspiracy theorist and is the shining light as to why these people are bonkers. I know there are real conspiracies but one so massive as the moon landings or 9/11 being planned by the US government are so bonkers that even bonkers people don't subscribe to them. Sorry for asking but it was always only about the first landing on the moon didnt they left the mirror in a later mission? Its only about Apollo 11 in my opinion becouse USA lost every other race they really wanted to win that one against the russians therefore a motivation was there to fake it. Even when they could have done it but just needed 3 more month they might just fake it in fear the russians would might have a compareable plan on their hands. (wich as far as i know russian goverment wanted the USA make believe) You making it quite too easy for yourself to throw that opinion out of the window from the very beginning. I still believe tehy managed and congratulate the USA to have been the first to put a foot on the moon. Why do we even discuss this here? I'm summing up the entire series of landing in to one thing, having actually studied physics and being a massive NASA fan. Yes it was in later missions they put the reflectors but to say they faked the initial landing and then actually went there later is just as absurd, so simply by acknowledging the fact of the reflectors being there, you have to acknowledge the first landing. The US won the space race, its that simple. The Russians got to many things first but the race was to the moon and the US got there first, one of the things about a race is that it doesn't matter who gets to the half way point first, its about to makes it to the finish first. Basically anyone can create a conspiracy theory, it is as easy as saying "hey did you hear? Obama is a muslim" and look how fast that one caught on. To say we didn't go to the moon is to basically negate the works of thousands of people across the world, not just those who worked for NASA but also the countless others who have worked in multitudes of scientific and engineering field over the last two centuries. No, you didn't study physics. You don't even know what physics is. You cant even possibly get into real physics material until you get past graduate school. Sitting in a high school class room or watching a youtube video doesn't constitute studying physics. Studying physics implies you have dedicated your entire life into the field and you have become a renowned expert and are making discoveries in disciplines that only a handful of other people in the world can even comprehend. You have no idea what the life of a physicist is like, and you certainly are not a physicist and you don't know anything about physics.
I'm 29 and have a both an A level and a degree in physics. So yes i studied physics. I never, however, said I understand all of it. And your definition of what a physicist is, well its just ridiculous. There are thousands of working physicists in the world, many of whom don't work directly in research, the handful of people who make discoveries are not the only experts in their fields. I don't see Neil Tyson making discoveries and I think we can all agree he is an expert in his field, I never claimed to be an expert in the field either, I merely said that having studied it I was summarising the moon landings down to prove the achievement of the first.
I do have friends who are research scientists and never once has one of them ever told me that I "don't know anything about physics". They correct me when I misremember something, they remind me that I haven't dedicated my life to it like they have but never would they assume to tell me I know nothing about it, and they know me well. How you, who has no idea who I am or what I do with my life can tell me I haven't done what I have done...... well, that makes you an idiot.
Perhaps you are a physicist yourself? In which case, in comparison I probably know very little about physics. But I doubt anyone who talks like you did about what a physicist is, can possibly be one. Because you've basically stated that thousands of physicists working in non-research fields are morons who know nothing about physics and never in my life have I met anyone working in the scientific fields who would greet a fellow enthusiast with such vitriol.
|
On February 19 2013 23:41 DannyJ wrote:
I think the average conspiracy theorist gives far too much credit to the creativity and competency of people/nations than they deserve.
Most of them fail from the onset, simply because the logistics that would be involved in most of the suggested cover-ups would be borderline impossible. It would include hundreds, sometimes thousands of independent parties maintaining strict secrecy over significant periods of time, often regarding world-view altering events. It just wouldn't happen.
As someone pointed out, it actually gets to a point where the suggested event in question, whether it's an alien landing, supernatural events, government genetic experiments or what have you, is in fact more likely than the subsequent cover-up.
|
Despite myself, I actually semi-enjoyed reading that!
Although your description of a conspiracy theorist is so idealistic as to be utterly without merit. I have a lot to say about what you wrote, I'm just not motivated enough to spend the amount of time needed to gather my thoughts in text format.
|
On February 19 2013 23:38 tryummm wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2013 23:34 emythrel wrote:On February 19 2013 23:09 Chilling5pr33 wrote:On February 19 2013 23:02 emythrel wrote:On February 19 2013 21:57 Tobberoth wrote:On February 19 2013 21:41 Chilling5pr33 wrote:On February 19 2013 21:37 Tobberoth wrote:On February 19 2013 21:12 Chilling5pr33 wrote:On February 19 2013 21:09 Tobberoth wrote:
A conspiracy theorist basically say "I could believe X, or I could believe Y. X if FAR more probable, so I'll believe Y". Which sounds quite irrational IMO. I think it isnt that easy they actually dont think one is more plausible than the other, they think the information leading to that conclusion is false and given knowingly. Of course they don't believe it's more plausible, just like a lot of insane people believe they are perfectly sane. The thing with conspiracy theories is that it doesn't matter if the information is given knowlingly. The fact that the conspiracy would have to be so massive is what makes it so improbable. Check the numbers on the people who have worked for NASA in relation to the moon landings. Now assume that every single one of them is lying about the moon landing, and has kept the secret that it's fake until now. That's all you need to realize how extremely improbable it is that the moon landings were faked, yet conspiracy theorists still believe that, for no apparent reason. Ha yes i believe they could have also tricked them and only the astronauts as well as the studio team know they werent on the moon, ofcourse its impossible all those people would shut down but what if the rocket just orbit earth few weeks and the part of question (the actual landing on the moon) is the part wich is lied about. The people working on it would actually believe everything went like shown in tv but 50 people know otherwise they are choosen becouse they are able to shut up and be quiet and let the rest of nasa/"The World" believe what they want to believe? I know the moon landing is real becouse i checked every data avaible and came to the conclusion they would have made some error on the way. And i dont start searching for them becouse we have those crazy conspiracy heads who would have found something to today as well as russia who has checked the data a 100 times probably ;D That just makes it even more improbable. Many of the people working at NASA had extremely complicated jobs and are expert scientists in their field. You're basically saying that for the conspiracy theory to make any sense, about 50 people together were able to fool all of those experts and simulate the real situation for them, while at the same time making fake footage from the moon and streaming live. It's so improbable that all the arguments against it happening suddenly become miniscule. You get to the point where actually going to the moon is easier than faking it. You don't even need to go down that line of thinking. The astronauts left stuff behind on the moon, they left reflectors that people on earth use to measure the distance to the moon, and we aren't talking about a select few who "say" they have done the experiment. Literally anyone with a good telescope and a powerful enough laser can do the experiment, including myself. A friend of mine works for a university, he once borrowed some equipment and took about 20 of us out in to the sticks and we spent the night bouncing lasers off the reflectors on the moon. Now I'm sure conspiracy theorists will say that the reflectors weren't put there by actual humans but were sent by rocket to help keep the conspiracy covered up, but why would you do that? Thousands of people were involved in going to the moon, the TV signal was relayed from the UK (Jodrell Bank observatory) back to the US when Armstrong landed, so basically you are saying that those people were either involved or tricked. The only problem with that being that Jodrell Bank confirmed the source of the transmission as being from the moon. Even Russia, engaged in the space race against the US and in the midst of the cold war, acknowledged the achievement. If it was good enough for the Russians, its good enough for everyone else. It would be so much easier to actually send people to the Moon, that faking it wouldn't be worth doing. There is no way you could keep it all under wraps, not to mention actually getting to the moon is pretty simple in space travel terms, all you need is a vessel and Newtons equations for gravity and motion. Having spent billions of dollars on a launch vehicle, how can anyone think they sent it up to the moon without any people on board? Why would you do that? I know the OP didn't mention this stuff, but its a pillar of the conspiracy theorist and is the shining light as to why these people are bonkers. I know there are real conspiracies but one so massive as the moon landings or 9/11 being planned by the US government are so bonkers that even bonkers people don't subscribe to them. Sorry for asking but it was always only about the first landing on the moon didnt they left the mirror in a later mission? Its only about Apollo 11 in my opinion becouse USA lost every other race they really wanted to win that one against the russians therefore a motivation was there to fake it. Even when they could have done it but just needed 3 more month they might just fake it in fear the russians would might have a compareable plan on their hands. (wich as far as i know russian goverment wanted the USA make believe) You making it quite too easy for yourself to throw that opinion out of the window from the very beginning. I still believe tehy managed and congratulate the USA to have been the first to put a foot on the moon. Why do we even discuss this here? I'm summing up the entire series of landing in to one thing, having actually studied physics and being a massive NASA fan. Yes it was in later missions they put the reflectors but to say they faked the initial landing and then actually went there later is just as absurd, so simply by acknowledging the fact of the reflectors being there, you have to acknowledge the first landing. The US won the space race, its that simple. The Russians got to many things first but the race was to the moon and the US got there first, one of the things about a race is that it doesn't matter who gets to the half way point first, its about to makes it to the finish first. Basically anyone can create a conspiracy theory, it is as easy as saying "hey did you hear? Obama is a muslim" and look how fast that one caught on. To say we didn't go to the moon is to basically negate the works of thousands of people across the world, not just those who worked for NASA but also the countless others who have worked in multitudes of scientific and engineering field over the last two centuries. No, you didn't study physics. You don't even know what physics is. You cant even possibly get into real physics material until you get past graduate school. Sitting in a high school class room or watching a youtube video doesn't constitute studying physics. Studying physics implies you have dedicated your entire life into the field and you have become a renowned expert and are making discoveries in disciplines that only a handful of other people in the world can even comprehend. You have no idea what the life of a physicist is like, and you certainly are not a physicist and you don't know anything about physics.
So basically almost nobody with a degree in physics counts as having studied physics? Wtf did they study, then?
|
The reason conspiracy theorists exist is they are incapable of critically responding to information. They never learned the definition of bias, they are unable to discern the quality of information and they believe a lack of information is hidden information.
Most conspiracies (and most governments) leak like a battleship fresh from a war. It is virtually impossible to keep secrets. Someone, somewhere will blab or screw up. The political process, certainly over here, is so transparently corrupt that it actually makes them kind of honest.
|
On February 20 2013 00:08 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2013 23:38 tryummm wrote:On February 19 2013 23:34 emythrel wrote:On February 19 2013 23:09 Chilling5pr33 wrote:On February 19 2013 23:02 emythrel wrote:On February 19 2013 21:57 Tobberoth wrote:On February 19 2013 21:41 Chilling5pr33 wrote:On February 19 2013 21:37 Tobberoth wrote:On February 19 2013 21:12 Chilling5pr33 wrote:On February 19 2013 21:09 Tobberoth wrote:
A conspiracy theorist basically say "I could believe X, or I could believe Y. X if FAR more probable, so I'll believe Y". Which sounds quite irrational IMO. I think it isnt that easy they actually dont think one is more plausible than the other, they think the information leading to that conclusion is false and given knowingly. Of course they don't believe it's more plausible, just like a lot of insane people believe they are perfectly sane. The thing with conspiracy theories is that it doesn't matter if the information is given knowlingly. The fact that the conspiracy would have to be so massive is what makes it so improbable. Check the numbers on the people who have worked for NASA in relation to the moon landings. Now assume that every single one of them is lying about the moon landing, and has kept the secret that it's fake until now. That's all you need to realize how extremely improbable it is that the moon landings were faked, yet conspiracy theorists still believe that, for no apparent reason. Ha yes i believe they could have also tricked them and only the astronauts as well as the studio team know they werent on the moon, ofcourse its impossible all those people would shut down but what if the rocket just orbit earth few weeks and the part of question (the actual landing on the moon) is the part wich is lied about. The people working on it would actually believe everything went like shown in tv but 50 people know otherwise they are choosen becouse they are able to shut up and be quiet and let the rest of nasa/"The World" believe what they want to believe? I know the moon landing is real becouse i checked every data avaible and came to the conclusion they would have made some error on the way. And i dont start searching for them becouse we have those crazy conspiracy heads who would have found something to today as well as russia who has checked the data a 100 times probably ;D That just makes it even more improbable. Many of the people working at NASA had extremely complicated jobs and are expert scientists in their field. You're basically saying that for the conspiracy theory to make any sense, about 50 people together were able to fool all of those experts and simulate the real situation for them, while at the same time making fake footage from the moon and streaming live. It's so improbable that all the arguments against it happening suddenly become miniscule. You get to the point where actually going to the moon is easier than faking it. You don't even need to go down that line of thinking. The astronauts left stuff behind on the moon, they left reflectors that people on earth use to measure the distance to the moon, and we aren't talking about a select few who "say" they have done the experiment. Literally anyone with a good telescope and a powerful enough laser can do the experiment, including myself. A friend of mine works for a university, he once borrowed some equipment and took about 20 of us out in to the sticks and we spent the night bouncing lasers off the reflectors on the moon. Now I'm sure conspiracy theorists will say that the reflectors weren't put there by actual humans but were sent by rocket to help keep the conspiracy covered up, but why would you do that? Thousands of people were involved in going to the moon, the TV signal was relayed from the UK (Jodrell Bank observatory) back to the US when Armstrong landed, so basically you are saying that those people were either involved or tricked. The only problem with that being that Jodrell Bank confirmed the source of the transmission as being from the moon. Even Russia, engaged in the space race against the US and in the midst of the cold war, acknowledged the achievement. If it was good enough for the Russians, its good enough for everyone else. It would be so much easier to actually send people to the Moon, that faking it wouldn't be worth doing. There is no way you could keep it all under wraps, not to mention actually getting to the moon is pretty simple in space travel terms, all you need is a vessel and Newtons equations for gravity and motion. Having spent billions of dollars on a launch vehicle, how can anyone think they sent it up to the moon without any people on board? Why would you do that? I know the OP didn't mention this stuff, but its a pillar of the conspiracy theorist and is the shining light as to why these people are bonkers. I know there are real conspiracies but one so massive as the moon landings or 9/11 being planned by the US government are so bonkers that even bonkers people don't subscribe to them. Sorry for asking but it was always only about the first landing on the moon didnt they left the mirror in a later mission? Its only about Apollo 11 in my opinion becouse USA lost every other race they really wanted to win that one against the russians therefore a motivation was there to fake it. Even when they could have done it but just needed 3 more month they might just fake it in fear the russians would might have a compareable plan on their hands. (wich as far as i know russian goverment wanted the USA make believe) You making it quite too easy for yourself to throw that opinion out of the window from the very beginning. I still believe tehy managed and congratulate the USA to have been the first to put a foot on the moon. Why do we even discuss this here? I'm summing up the entire series of landing in to one thing, having actually studied physics and being a massive NASA fan. Yes it was in later missions they put the reflectors but to say they faked the initial landing and then actually went there later is just as absurd, so simply by acknowledging the fact of the reflectors being there, you have to acknowledge the first landing. The US won the space race, its that simple. The Russians got to many things first but the race was to the moon and the US got there first, one of the things about a race is that it doesn't matter who gets to the half way point first, its about to makes it to the finish first. Basically anyone can create a conspiracy theory, it is as easy as saying "hey did you hear? Obama is a muslim" and look how fast that one caught on. To say we didn't go to the moon is to basically negate the works of thousands of people across the world, not just those who worked for NASA but also the countless others who have worked in multitudes of scientific and engineering field over the last two centuries. No, you didn't study physics. You don't even know what physics is. You cant even possibly get into real physics material until you get past graduate school. Sitting in a high school class room or watching a youtube video doesn't constitute studying physics. Studying physics implies you have dedicated your entire life into the field and you have become a renowned expert and are making discoveries in disciplines that only a handful of other people in the world can even comprehend. You have no idea what the life of a physicist is like, and you certainly are not a physicist and you don't know anything about physics. So basically almost nobody with a degree in physics counts as having studied physics? Wtf did they study, then?
Dude, i spent three years at University in a physics class studying floristry. I don't know shit about the universe, but I can make a mean bouquet of flowers. Oh i learned a little bit about cosmology and quantum mechanics, but since I stopped my studies after uni, I obviously just learned how to arrange flowers.
And since matey boy knows so much about physics, perhaps he could summarise the Hubble constant and explain how you use it to calculate the age of the universe?
|
United States41471 Posts
On February 19 2013 22:59 Chilling5pr33 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2013 22:57 KwarK wrote:On February 19 2013 21:41 Chilling5pr33 wrote:On February 19 2013 21:37 Tobberoth wrote:On February 19 2013 21:12 Chilling5pr33 wrote:On February 19 2013 21:09 Tobberoth wrote:
A conspiracy theorist basically say "I could believe X, or I could believe Y. X if FAR more probable, so I'll believe Y". Which sounds quite irrational IMO. I think it isnt that easy they actually dont think one is more plausible than the other, they think the information leading to that conclusion is false and given knowingly. Of course they don't believe it's more plausible, just like a lot of insane people believe they are perfectly sane. The thing with conspiracy theories is that it doesn't matter if the information is given knowlingly. The fact that the conspiracy would have to be so massive is what makes it so improbable. Check the numbers on the people who have worked for NASA in relation to the moon landings. Now assume that every single one of them is lying about the moon landing, and has kept the secret that it's fake until now. That's all you need to realize how extremely improbable it is that the moon landings were faked, yet conspiracy theorists still believe that, for no apparent reason. Ha yes i believe they could have also tricked them and only the astronauts as well as the studio team know they werent on the moon, ofcourse its impossible all those people would shut down but what if the rocket just orbit earth few weeks and the part of question (the actual landing on the moon) is the part wich is lied about. The people working on it would actually believe everything went like shown in tv but 50 people know otherwise they are choosen becouse they are able to shut up and be quiet and let the rest of nasa/"The World" believe what they want to believe? I know the moon landing is real becouse i checked every data avaible and came to the conclusion they would have made some error on the way. And i dont start searching for them becouse we have those crazy conspiracy heads who would have found something to today as well as russia who has checked the data a 100 times probably ;D Random people all over the world bounce signals off of mirrors planted on the surface of the moon all the time. My housemate who is an astrophysics student has needed to do it a few times. Denying the moon landing is willful ignorance, it's intellectually comparable to denying the moon itself. If you're going to go conspiracy, go big. NASA faked the moon. kwark i would love to see a mod read my post carefully i was (past) thinking they might have faked it and i had my reasons behind it i wanna give you a insight about it and therefore i stated my old believes. Those are stupid but not as stupid as you might think and therefore i wanted to give you a insight, i thought the threat is there for that. Damn sometimes you make me mad kwark ;D have a nice day
It's not real because they would have made some error in faking it. It's real because there's shit up there which we put up there which you can check is there. Concluding it wasn't faked for dumb reasons isn't much better, you're missing the point which is that pretty much anyone can bounce stuff off of mirrors placed on the surface of the moon and check for themselves. Coming up with an a priori argument, even if it is also true (they couldn't have gotten away with faking it), misses the fact that needing that argument is massively idiotic.
|
On February 19 2013 18:19 Uncultured wrote:
Aheh. I love how people are applying their own person definition of a conspiracy theorist to the op's post, which very clearly defines what he's talking about, and it has nothing to do with believing Elvis is alive but instead the nature of belief itself. Addressing the subject so casually in such a snide way makes me believe I'm the only one so far to actually read the OP in fullness. It was good stuff, I suggest ya'll go back and try to understand what he's saying.
People are annoyed at the condescending tone and hypocrisy these threads tend to bring along. It's presumptuous to even believe there's a right way to do anything, let alone the belief that people could do so. Why write a lecture justifying your world view when it argues to accept any and all possibilities?
Publicly confessing that you think you're pretty smart, it doesn't look very flattering.
|
OP's a fucking reptilian. they are making think rationally so we think its dumb (conspiracy) but its real lol. seriously though.... conspiracy theories cannot make consequent thoughts, sure there is always a political game of power and interest behind every action a government/multi-national company takes. but, there is a limit to the inherent "evilness" of these people. alot of people do bad things while thinking their actions are good. nuffsaid. going back with my reptile bros underneath the earth.
|
OP isn't describing conspiracy theory, but skepticism.
I don't understand why OP uses the term 'conspiracy theory'.
|
On February 19 2013 23:38 tryummm wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2013 23:34 emythrel wrote:On February 19 2013 23:09 Chilling5pr33 wrote:On February 19 2013 23:02 emythrel wrote:On February 19 2013 21:57 Tobberoth wrote:On February 19 2013 21:41 Chilling5pr33 wrote:On February 19 2013 21:37 Tobberoth wrote:On February 19 2013 21:12 Chilling5pr33 wrote:On February 19 2013 21:09 Tobberoth wrote:
A conspiracy theorist basically say "I could believe X, or I could believe Y. X if FAR more probable, so I'll believe Y". Which sounds quite irrational IMO. I think it isnt that easy they actually dont think one is more plausible than the other, they think the information leading to that conclusion is false and given knowingly. Of course they don't believe it's more plausible, just like a lot of insane people believe they are perfectly sane. The thing with conspiracy theories is that it doesn't matter if the information is given knowlingly. The fact that the conspiracy would have to be so massive is what makes it so improbable. Check the numbers on the people who have worked for NASA in relation to the moon landings. Now assume that every single one of them is lying about the moon landing, and has kept the secret that it's fake until now. That's all you need to realize how extremely improbable it is that the moon landings were faked, yet conspiracy theorists still believe that, for no apparent reason. Ha yes i believe they could have also tricked them and only the astronauts as well as the studio team know they werent on the moon, ofcourse its impossible all those people would shut down but what if the rocket just orbit earth few weeks and the part of question (the actual landing on the moon) is the part wich is lied about. The people working on it would actually believe everything went like shown in tv but 50 people know otherwise they are choosen becouse they are able to shut up and be quiet and let the rest of nasa/"The World" believe what they want to believe? I know the moon landing is real becouse i checked every data avaible and came to the conclusion they would have made some error on the way. And i dont start searching for them becouse we have those crazy conspiracy heads who would have found something to today as well as russia who has checked the data a 100 times probably ;D That just makes it even more improbable. Many of the people working at NASA had extremely complicated jobs and are expert scientists in their field. You're basically saying that for the conspiracy theory to make any sense, about 50 people together were able to fool all of those experts and simulate the real situation for them, while at the same time making fake footage from the moon and streaming live. It's so improbable that all the arguments against it happening suddenly become miniscule. You get to the point where actually going to the moon is easier than faking it. You don't even need to go down that line of thinking. The astronauts left stuff behind on the moon, they left reflectors that people on earth use to measure the distance to the moon, and we aren't talking about a select few who "say" they have done the experiment. Literally anyone with a good telescope and a powerful enough laser can do the experiment, including myself. A friend of mine works for a university, he once borrowed some equipment and took about 20 of us out in to the sticks and we spent the night bouncing lasers off the reflectors on the moon. Now I'm sure conspiracy theorists will say that the reflectors weren't put there by actual humans but were sent by rocket to help keep the conspiracy covered up, but why would you do that? Thousands of people were involved in going to the moon, the TV signal was relayed from the UK (Jodrell Bank observatory) back to the US when Armstrong landed, so basically you are saying that those people were either involved or tricked. The only problem with that being that Jodrell Bank confirmed the source of the transmission as being from the moon. Even Russia, engaged in the space race against the US and in the midst of the cold war, acknowledged the achievement. If it was good enough for the Russians, its good enough for everyone else. It would be so much easier to actually send people to the Moon, that faking it wouldn't be worth doing. There is no way you could keep it all under wraps, not to mention actually getting to the moon is pretty simple in space travel terms, all you need is a vessel and Newtons equations for gravity and motion. Having spent billions of dollars on a launch vehicle, how can anyone think they sent it up to the moon without any people on board? Why would you do that? I know the OP didn't mention this stuff, but its a pillar of the conspiracy theorist and is the shining light as to why these people are bonkers. I know there are real conspiracies but one so massive as the moon landings or 9/11 being planned by the US government are so bonkers that even bonkers people don't subscribe to them. Sorry for asking but it was always only about the first landing on the moon didnt they left the mirror in a later mission? Its only about Apollo 11 in my opinion becouse USA lost every other race they really wanted to win that one against the russians therefore a motivation was there to fake it. Even when they could have done it but just needed 3 more month they might just fake it in fear the russians would might have a compareable plan on their hands. (wich as far as i know russian goverment wanted the USA make believe) You making it quite too easy for yourself to throw that opinion out of the window from the very beginning. I still believe tehy managed and congratulate the USA to have been the first to put a foot on the moon. Why do we even discuss this here? I'm summing up the entire series of landing in to one thing, having actually studied physics and being a massive NASA fan. Yes it was in later missions they put the reflectors but to say they faked the initial landing and then actually went there later is just as absurd, so simply by acknowledging the fact of the reflectors being there, you have to acknowledge the first landing. The US won the space race, its that simple. The Russians got to many things first but the race was to the moon and the US got there first, one of the things about a race is that it doesn't matter who gets to the half way point first, its about to makes it to the finish first. Basically anyone can create a conspiracy theory, it is as easy as saying "hey did you hear? Obama is a muslim" and look how fast that one caught on. To say we didn't go to the moon is to basically negate the works of thousands of people across the world, not just those who worked for NASA but also the countless others who have worked in multitudes of scientific and engineering field over the last two centuries. No, you didn't study physics. You don't even know what physics is. You cant even possibly get into real physics material until you get past graduate school. Sitting in a high school class room or watching a youtube video doesn't constitute studying physics. Studying physics implies you have dedicated your entire life into the field and you have become a renowned expert and are making discoveries in disciplines that only a handful of other people in the world can even comprehend. You have no idea what the life of a physicist is like, and you certainly are not a physicist and you don't know anything about physics.
You need to study language.
I sincerely hope you aren't a physicist. Your presumptions are disgusting and that kind of statement boggles my mind, are you implying you're a physicist, to what capacity? That you're better than him? What is your objective? Other than to sound like a bigot.
Your post is infuriating.
|
On February 20 2013 00:26 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2013 22:59 Chilling5pr33 wrote:On February 19 2013 22:57 KwarK wrote:On February 19 2013 21:41 Chilling5pr33 wrote:On February 19 2013 21:37 Tobberoth wrote:On February 19 2013 21:12 Chilling5pr33 wrote:On February 19 2013 21:09 Tobberoth wrote:
A conspiracy theorist basically say "I could believe X, or I could believe Y. X if FAR more probable, so I'll believe Y". Which sounds quite irrational IMO. I think it isnt that easy they actually dont think one is more plausible than the other, they think the information leading to that conclusion is false and given knowingly. Of course they don't believe it's more plausible, just like a lot of insane people believe they are perfectly sane. The thing with conspiracy theories is that it doesn't matter if the information is given knowlingly. The fact that the conspiracy would have to be so massive is what makes it so improbable. Check the numbers on the people who have worked for NASA in relation to the moon landings. Now assume that every single one of them is lying about the moon landing, and has kept the secret that it's fake until now. That's all you need to realize how extremely improbable it is that the moon landings were faked, yet conspiracy theorists still believe that, for no apparent reason. Ha yes i believe they could have also tricked them and only the astronauts as well as the studio team know they werent on the moon, ofcourse its impossible all those people would shut down but what if the rocket just orbit earth few weeks and the part of question (the actual landing on the moon) is the part wich is lied about. The people working on it would actually believe everything went like shown in tv but 50 people know otherwise they are choosen becouse they are able to shut up and be quiet and let the rest of nasa/"The World" believe what they want to believe? I know the moon landing is real becouse i checked every data avaible and came to the conclusion they would have made some error on the way. And i dont start searching for them becouse we have those crazy conspiracy heads who would have found something to today as well as russia who has checked the data a 100 times probably ;D Random people all over the world bounce signals off of mirrors planted on the surface of the moon all the time. My housemate who is an astrophysics student has needed to do it a few times. Denying the moon landing is willful ignorance, it's intellectually comparable to denying the moon itself. If you're going to go conspiracy, go big. NASA faked the moon. kwark i would love to see a mod read my post carefully i was (past) thinking they might have faked it and i had my reasons behind it i wanna give you a insight about it and therefore i stated my old believes. Those are stupid but not as stupid as you might think and therefore i wanted to give you a insight, i thought the threat is there for that. Damn sometimes you make me mad kwark ;D have a nice day It's not real because they would have made some error in faking it. It's real because there's shit up there which we put up there which you can check is there. Concluding it wasn't faked for dumb reasons isn't much better, you're missing the point which is that pretty much anyone can bounce stuff off of mirrors placed on the surface of the moon and check for themselves. Coming up with an a priori argument, even if it is also true (they couldn't have gotten away with faking it), misses the fact that needing that argument is massively idiotic.
Lol, please dont assume stuff wich isnt real, the mirror wich was left behind was left behind at a later mission not apollo 11 to assume something is real becouse of stupid reasons is just massively idiotic as well kwark!
You would love to swing the hammer or close this wouldnt you?
|
It has struck me that conspiracy theorists are to some extent logically self-consistent. They have an entirely different set of assumptions about how the world/knowledge works than the general population, and so dialogue is not really possible. Your logic/information is considered suspect by them, so need not be heeded.
Direct argument fails because the initial assumptions (especially relating to what knowledge is trustworthy) are so far off.
Not to say that conspiracy theorists are necessarily good at arguing, they definitely have a fallacy epidemic. Still, it's a sort of bubble that rejects external information and seems to make sense given the sources of knowledge assumed trustworthy.
|
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Sloot
How's this for a conspiracy theory ?
I'd love for someone to do a little research/digging into this, and tell me nothing fishy was going on there.
My point being, there is no question about fishy stuff going on all the time, everywhere, and I do think (hope :p) people are generally aware of this.
The problem starts when people hear the word "conspiracy" and immediately think about fake moon landings/aliens/lizard people.
Look up the word, no mention of lizard people or tinfoil hats as far as I can tell :p.
|
The problem with my conspiracy minded friends is that while I don't believe in their conspiracies, I try to be as open minded to their stuff as I can and try to read about it.
But when I present the counter argument, a website, a documentary whatever, something that puts another light on their case, often another more plausible explanation, they never watch or read it.
They say they are very open minded, while they are totally not. They refuse to even glance at other possibilities. It's that "my opinion is a fact" attitude that I dislike in them.
|
On February 20 2013 00:26 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2013 22:59 Chilling5pr33 wrote:On February 19 2013 22:57 KwarK wrote:On February 19 2013 21:41 Chilling5pr33 wrote:On February 19 2013 21:37 Tobberoth wrote:On February 19 2013 21:12 Chilling5pr33 wrote:On February 19 2013 21:09 Tobberoth wrote:
A conspiracy theorist basically say "I could believe X, or I could believe Y. X if FAR more probable, so I'll believe Y". Which sounds quite irrational IMO. I think it isnt that easy they actually dont think one is more plausible than the other, they think the information leading to that conclusion is false and given knowingly. Of course they don't believe it's more plausible, just like a lot of insane people believe they are perfectly sane. The thing with conspiracy theories is that it doesn't matter if the information is given knowlingly. The fact that the conspiracy would have to be so massive is what makes it so improbable. Check the numbers on the people who have worked for NASA in relation to the moon landings. Now assume that every single one of them is lying about the moon landing, and has kept the secret that it's fake until now. That's all you need to realize how extremely improbable it is that the moon landings were faked, yet conspiracy theorists still believe that, for no apparent reason. Ha yes i believe they could have also tricked them and only the astronauts as well as the studio team know they werent on the moon, ofcourse its impossible all those people would shut down but what if the rocket just orbit earth few weeks and the part of question (the actual landing on the moon) is the part wich is lied about. The people working on it would actually believe everything went like shown in tv but 50 people know otherwise they are choosen becouse they are able to shut up and be quiet and let the rest of nasa/"The World" believe what they want to believe? I know the moon landing is real becouse i checked every data avaible and came to the conclusion they would have made some error on the way. And i dont start searching for them becouse we have those crazy conspiracy heads who would have found something to today as well as russia who has checked the data a 100 times probably ;D Random people all over the world bounce signals off of mirrors planted on the surface of the moon all the time. My housemate who is an astrophysics student has needed to do it a few times. Denying the moon landing is willful ignorance, it's intellectually comparable to denying the moon itself. If you're going to go conspiracy, go big. NASA faked the moon. kwark i would love to see a mod read my post carefully i was (past) thinking they might have faked it and i had my reasons behind it i wanna give you a insight about it and therefore i stated my old believes. Those are stupid but not as stupid as you might think and therefore i wanted to give you a insight, i thought the threat is there for that. Damn sometimes you make me mad kwark ;D have a nice day It's not real because they would have made some error in faking it. It's real because there's shit up there which we put up there which you can check is there. Concluding it wasn't faked for dumb reasons isn't much better, you're missing the point which is that pretty much anyone can bounce stuff off of mirrors placed on the surface of the moon and check for themselves. Coming up with an a priori argument, even if it is also true (they couldn't have gotten away with faking it), misses the fact that needing that argument is massively idiotic.
When you tell this to an antagonist in an argument, you lose all opportunity for influencing them. But that's not really your intent here, is it. We are allowed to vent 
|
On February 20 2013 01:11 Zandar wrote:
The problem with my conspiracy minded friends is that while I don't believe in their conspiracies, I try to be as open minded to their stuff and read about it.
But when I present the counter argument, a website, a documentary whatever, something that puts another light on their case, another more plausible explanation, they never watch or read it.
They say they are very open minded, while they are totally not. They refuse to even glance at other possibilities. It's that "my opinion is a fact" attitude that I dislike in them.
Both sides dont really give any credit to the other and insist often on false facts wich makes research super hard.
|
On February 20 2013 01:06 HeatEXTEND wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_SlootHow's this for a conspiracy theory ? I'd love for someone to do a little research/digging into this, and tell me nothing fishy was going on there. My point being, there is no question about fishy stuff going on all the time, everywhere, and I do think (hope :p) people are generally aware of this. The problem starts when people hear the word "conspiracy" and immediately think about fake moon landings/aliens/lizard people. Look up the word, no mention of lizard people or tinfoil hats as far as I can tell :p. tell me were conspiracy comes in.
I can understand someone suspecting murder and theft of the disk. But something being fishy is no evidence for something happening. I'm very glad there are judges that see to that. The fact that it hasn't been reproduced gives also no evidence for the technology existing. There're hundreds of people who claim to have invented something. This one happened to die. What's the big deal?
|
United States41471 Posts
On February 20 2013 01:00 Chilling5pr33 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 00:26 KwarK wrote:On February 19 2013 22:59 Chilling5pr33 wrote:On February 19 2013 22:57 KwarK wrote:On February 19 2013 21:41 Chilling5pr33 wrote:On February 19 2013 21:37 Tobberoth wrote:On February 19 2013 21:12 Chilling5pr33 wrote:On February 19 2013 21:09 Tobberoth wrote:
A conspiracy theorist basically say "I could believe X, or I could believe Y. X if FAR more probable, so I'll believe Y". Which sounds quite irrational IMO. I think it isnt that easy they actually dont think one is more plausible than the other, they think the information leading to that conclusion is false and given knowingly. Of course they don't believe it's more plausible, just like a lot of insane people believe they are perfectly sane. The thing with conspiracy theories is that it doesn't matter if the information is given knowlingly. The fact that the conspiracy would have to be so massive is what makes it so improbable. Check the numbers on the people who have worked for NASA in relation to the moon landings. Now assume that every single one of them is lying about the moon landing, and has kept the secret that it's fake until now. That's all you need to realize how extremely improbable it is that the moon landings were faked, yet conspiracy theorists still believe that, for no apparent reason. Ha yes i believe they could have also tricked them and only the astronauts as well as the studio team know they werent on the moon, ofcourse its impossible all those people would shut down but what if the rocket just orbit earth few weeks and the part of question (the actual landing on the moon) is the part wich is lied about. The people working on it would actually believe everything went like shown in tv but 50 people know otherwise they are choosen becouse they are able to shut up and be quiet and let the rest of nasa/"The World" believe what they want to believe? I know the moon landing is real becouse i checked every data avaible and came to the conclusion they would have made some error on the way. And i dont start searching for them becouse we have those crazy conspiracy heads who would have found something to today as well as russia who has checked the data a 100 times probably ;D Random people all over the world bounce signals off of mirrors planted on the surface of the moon all the time. My housemate who is an astrophysics student has needed to do it a few times. Denying the moon landing is willful ignorance, it's intellectually comparable to denying the moon itself. If you're going to go conspiracy, go big. NASA faked the moon. kwark i would love to see a mod read my post carefully i was (past) thinking they might have faked it and i had my reasons behind it i wanna give you a insight about it and therefore i stated my old believes. Those are stupid but not as stupid as you might think and therefore i wanted to give you a insight, i thought the threat is there for that. Damn sometimes you make me mad kwark ;D have a nice day It's not real because they would have made some error in faking it. It's real because there's shit up there which we put up there which you can check is there. Concluding it wasn't faked for dumb reasons isn't much better, you're missing the point which is that pretty much anyone can bounce stuff off of mirrors placed on the surface of the moon and check for themselves. Coming up with an a priori argument, even if it is also true (they couldn't have gotten away with faking it), misses the fact that needing that argument is massively idiotic. Lol, please dont assume stuff wich isnt real the mirror wich was left behind was left behind at a later mission not apollo 11 to assume something is real becouse of stupid reasons is just massively idiotic as well kwark! You would love to swing the hammer or close this wouldnt you?
Sorry, who exactly is denying one moon landing but accepting the others? I didn't realise that was a thing, it'd be pretty retarded.
No idea what a hammer has to do with anything.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
