Everything people do has a reasoning behind it, it's impossible for them to transcend the logic their matter binds them to. We can only rationally deduce irrationality must exist.
So they say, that on the back side of the moon, there is a whole civilization of pink ponies, living on a big farm inside a glass dome. They've been there and reproduced ever since the times of ancient Egypt. How is this possible? Well of course the pyramids were built by aliens from outer space, who also happened to populate the back side of the moon with pink ponies, when they had time off during the construction of the pyramids. Also, NASA and the Russians have known this since the first space missions, who went to the moon, but they kept this information hidden in a safe in a secret base in the desert, called Area 51. Area 51 is the codename for the pony farm on the moon, because there are currently 51 ponies living there. NASA has been observing them for many years, extracting technological knowledge, which without, we wouldn't ever have been able to have iPhones, the Internet, the iPad or Super Mario. On top of that, Super Mario was modelled after Bob the Pony, which again, lives on the back side of the moon, fixing the toilets and baths for his pals.
I'm telling you, the government is keeping information about all of this sealed !
I'd love for someone to do a little research/digging into this, and tell me nothing fishy was going on there.
My point being, there is no question about fishy stuff going on all the time, everywhere, and I do think (hope :p) people are generally aware of this.
The problem starts when people hear the word "conspiracy" and immediately think about fake moon landings/aliens/lizard people.
Look up the word, no mention of lizard people or tinfoil hats as far as I can tell :p.
tell me were conspiracy comes in.
I can understand someone suspecting murder and theft of the disk. But something being fishy is no evidence for something happening. I'm very glad there are judges that see to that. The fact that it hasn't been reproduced gives also no evidence for the technology existing. There're hundreds of people who claim to have invented something. This one happened to die. What's the big deal?
An 8 kilobyte movie is a pretty hilarious claim. The .txt file containing the spoken dialogue would be larger than that...
On February 19 2013 21:09 Tobberoth wrote: A conspiracy theorist basically say "I could believe X, or I could believe Y. X if FAR more probable, so I'll believe Y". Which sounds quite irrational IMO.
I think it isnt that easy they actually dont think one is more plausible than the other, they think the information leading to that conclusion is false and given knowingly.
Of course they don't believe it's more plausible, just like a lot of insane people believe they are perfectly sane.
The thing with conspiracy theories is that it doesn't matter if the information is given knowlingly. The fact that the conspiracy would have to be so massive is what makes it so improbable. Check the numbers on the people who have worked for NASA in relation to the moon landings. Now assume that every single one of them is lying about the moon landing, and has kept the secret that it's fake until now. That's all you need to realize how extremely improbable it is that the moon landings were faked, yet conspiracy theorists still believe that, for no apparent reason.
Ha yes i believe they could have also tricked them and only the astronauts as well as the studio team know they werent on the moon, ofcourse its impossible all those people would shut down but what if the rocket just orbit earth few weeks and the part of question (the actual landing on the moon) is the part wich is lied about.
The people working on it would actually believe everything went like shown in tv but 50 people know otherwise they are choosen becouse they are able to shut up and be quiet and let the rest of nasa/"The World" believe what they want to believe?
I know the moon landing is real becouse i checked every data avaible and came to the conclusion they would have made some error on the way.
And i dont start searching for them becouse we have those crazy conspiracy heads who would have found something to today as well as russia who has checked the data a 100 times probably ;D
Random people all over the world bounce signals off of mirrors planted on the surface of the moon all the time. My housemate who is an astrophysics student has needed to do it a few times. Denying the moon landing is willful ignorance, it's intellectually comparable to denying the moon itself. If you're going to go conspiracy, go big. NASA faked the moon.
kwark i would love to see a mod read my post carefully i was (past) thinking they might have faked it and i had my reasons behind it i wanna give you a insight about it and therefore i stated my old believes.
Those are stupid but not as stupid as you might think and therefore i wanted to give you a insight, i thought the threat is there for that.
Damn sometimes you make me mad kwark ;D have a nice day
It's not real because they would have made some error in faking it. It's real because there's shit up there which we put up there which you can check is there. Concluding it wasn't faked for dumb reasons isn't much better, you're missing the point which is that pretty much anyone can bounce stuff off of mirrors placed on the surface of the moon and check for themselves. Coming up with an a priori argument, even if it is also true (they couldn't have gotten away with faking it), misses the fact that needing that argument is massively idiotic.
Lol, please dont assume stuff wich isnt real the mirror wich was left behind was left behind at a later mission not apollo 11 to assume something is real becouse of stupid reasons is just massively idiotic as well kwark!
You would love to swing the hammer or close this wouldnt you?
Sorry, who exactly is denying one moon landing but accepting the others? I didn't realise that was a thing, it'd be pretty retarded.
No idea what a hammer has to do with anything.
<tinfoil on>This picture brought to you from Arizona desert. <tinfoil off>
On February 19 2013 21:09 Tobberoth wrote: A conspiracy theorist basically say "I could believe X, or I could believe Y. X if FAR more probable, so I'll believe Y". Which sounds quite irrational IMO.
I think it isnt that easy they actually dont think one is more plausible than the other, they think the information leading to that conclusion is false and given knowingly.
Of course they don't believe it's more plausible, just like a lot of insane people believe they are perfectly sane.
The thing with conspiracy theories is that it doesn't matter if the information is given knowlingly. The fact that the conspiracy would have to be so massive is what makes it so improbable. Check the numbers on the people who have worked for NASA in relation to the moon landings. Now assume that every single one of them is lying about the moon landing, and has kept the secret that it's fake until now. That's all you need to realize how extremely improbable it is that the moon landings were faked, yet conspiracy theorists still believe that, for no apparent reason.
Ha yes i believe they could have also tricked them and only the astronauts as well as the studio team know they werent on the moon, ofcourse its impossible all those people would shut down but what if the rocket just orbit earth few weeks and the part of question (the actual landing on the moon) is the part wich is lied about.
The people working on it would actually believe everything went like shown in tv but 50 people know otherwise they are choosen becouse they are able to shut up and be quiet and let the rest of nasa/"The World" believe what they want to believe?
I know the moon landing is real becouse i checked every data avaible and came to the conclusion they would have made some error on the way.
And i dont start searching for them becouse we have those crazy conspiracy heads who would have found something to today as well as russia who has checked the data a 100 times probably ;D
Random people all over the world bounce signals off of mirrors planted on the surface of the moon all the time. My housemate who is an astrophysics student has needed to do it a few times. Denying the moon landing is willful ignorance, it's intellectually comparable to denying the moon itself. If you're going to go conspiracy, go big. NASA faked the moon.
kwark i would love to see a mod read my post carefully i was (past) thinking they might have faked it and i had my reasons behind it i wanna give you a insight about it and therefore i stated my old believes.
Those are stupid but not as stupid as you might think and therefore i wanted to give you a insight, i thought the threat is there for that.
Damn sometimes you make me mad kwark ;D have a nice day
It's not real because they would have made some error in faking it. It's real because there's shit up there which we put up there which you can check is there. Concluding it wasn't faked for dumb reasons isn't much better, you're missing the point which is that pretty much anyone can bounce stuff off of mirrors placed on the surface of the moon and check for themselves. Coming up with an a priori argument, even if it is also true (they couldn't have gotten away with faking it), misses the fact that needing that argument is massively idiotic.
Lol, please dont assume stuff wich isnt real the mirror wich was left behind was left behind at a later mission not apollo 11 to assume something is real becouse of stupid reasons is just massively idiotic as well kwark!
You would love to swing the hammer or close this wouldnt you?
Sorry, who exactly is denying one moon landing but accepting the others? I didn't realise that was a thing, it'd be pretty retarded.
No idea what a hammer has to do with anything.
You never read what i write do you? I never denied any moon landing. You sound retarded man you really do... Not saying you are but ignoring any explaination i give to you to insist on your first impression would be retarded. I explained how i thought it was fake 10 years ago. Im arguing for my 10 year younger self here who i believe is stupid as well, but you just not doing it right, Therefore you dont deserve any respect!
Or you insist on being a mod here to follow you blindly and accept everything you say as true and right wich i will never make!
I'd love for someone to do a little research/digging into this, and tell me nothing fishy was going on there.
My point being, there is no question about fishy stuff going on all the time, everywhere, and I do think (hope :p) people are generally aware of this.
The problem starts when people hear the word "conspiracy" and immediately think about fake moon landings/aliens/lizard people.
Look up the word, no mention of lizard people or tinfoil hats as far as I can tell :p.
What's fishy about it is how something which sounds and seems completely impossible was apparently "believably demonstrated" in a book, yet can't be reproduced because a floppy disk worth of a compiler was lost. Sounds about as likely as all the "infinite power" machines which are never ever proven to work.
On February 19 2013 21:09 Tobberoth wrote: A conspiracy theorist basically say "I could believe X, or I could believe Y. X if FAR more probable, so I'll believe Y". Which sounds quite irrational IMO.
I think it isnt that easy they actually dont think one is more plausible than the other, they think the information leading to that conclusion is false and given knowingly.
Of course they don't believe it's more plausible, just like a lot of insane people believe they are perfectly sane.
The thing with conspiracy theories is that it doesn't matter if the information is given knowlingly. The fact that the conspiracy would have to be so massive is what makes it so improbable. Check the numbers on the people who have worked for NASA in relation to the moon landings. Now assume that every single one of them is lying about the moon landing, and has kept the secret that it's fake until now. That's all you need to realize how extremely improbable it is that the moon landings were faked, yet conspiracy theorists still believe that, for no apparent reason.
Ha yes i believe they could have also tricked them and only the astronauts as well as the studio team know they werent on the moon, ofcourse its impossible all those people would shut down but what if the rocket just orbit earth few weeks and the part of question (the actual landing on the moon) is the part wich is lied about.
The people working on it would actually believe everything went like shown in tv but 50 people know otherwise they are choosen becouse they are able to shut up and be quiet and let the rest of nasa/"The World" believe what they want to believe?
I know the moon landing is real becouse i checked every data avaible and came to the conclusion they would have made some error on the way.
And i dont start searching for them becouse we have those crazy conspiracy heads who would have found something to today as well as russia who has checked the data a 100 times probably ;D
Random people all over the world bounce signals off of mirrors planted on the surface of the moon all the time. My housemate who is an astrophysics student has needed to do it a few times. Denying the moon landing is willful ignorance, it's intellectually comparable to denying the moon itself. If you're going to go conspiracy, go big. NASA faked the moon.
kwark i would love to see a mod read my post carefully i was (past) thinking they might have faked it and i had my reasons behind it i wanna give you a insight about it and therefore i stated my old believes.
Those are stupid but not as stupid as you might think and therefore i wanted to give you a insight, i thought the threat is there for that.
Damn sometimes you make me mad kwark ;D have a nice day
It's not real because they would have made some error in faking it. It's real because there's shit up there which we put up there which you can check is there. Concluding it wasn't faked for dumb reasons isn't much better, you're missing the point which is that pretty much anyone can bounce stuff off of mirrors placed on the surface of the moon and check for themselves. Coming up with an a priori argument, even if it is also true (they couldn't have gotten away with faking it), misses the fact that needing that argument is massively idiotic.
Lol, please dont assume stuff wich isnt real the mirror wich was left behind was left behind at a later mission not apollo 11 to assume something is real becouse of stupid reasons is just massively idiotic as well kwark!
You would love to swing the hammer or close this wouldnt you?
Sorry, who exactly is denying one moon landing but accepting the others? I didn't realise that was a thing, it'd be pretty retarded.
No idea what a hammer has to do with anything.
You never read what i write do you? I never denied any moon landing. You sound retarded man you really do... Not saying you are but ignoring any explaination i give to you to insist on your first impression would be retarded. I explained how i thought it was fake 10 years ago. Im arguing for my 10 year younger self here who i believe is stupid as well, but you just not doing it right, Therefore you dont deserve any respect!
Or you insist on being a mod here to follow you blindly and accept everything you say as true and right wich i will never make!
You're arguing for your 10 year younger self, and KwarK is winning. Doesn't matter if you changed your mind/think your 10 year old self was stupid if you keep arguing for it and your arguments are being shot down. You can't say "I never denied any moon landing" when you are arguing for your 10 year younger self who DID deny the first moon landing but not the subsequent ones.
I was once a conspiracy theorist. I eventually stopped caring but then I read this book:
I then realized how ridiculous the things I had believed in were. I highly recommend this book to anyone. It focuses on several popular conspiracy theories but it's not a traditional debunking kind of book. It focuses more on the psychology behind why otherwise intelligent people come to believe in these things. Most importantly this book describes the dangers that arise when these kinds of theories begin to run so deep in a people that societies begin to act on them.
On February 19 2013 21:12 Chilling5pr33 wrote: [quote]
I think it isnt that easy they actually dont think one is more plausible than the other, they think the information leading to that conclusion is false and given knowingly.
Of course they don't believe it's more plausible, just like a lot of insane people believe they are perfectly sane.
The thing with conspiracy theories is that it doesn't matter if the information is given knowlingly. The fact that the conspiracy would have to be so massive is what makes it so improbable. Check the numbers on the people who have worked for NASA in relation to the moon landings. Now assume that every single one of them is lying about the moon landing, and has kept the secret that it's fake until now. That's all you need to realize how extremely improbable it is that the moon landings were faked, yet conspiracy theorists still believe that, for no apparent reason.
Ha yes i believe they could have also tricked them and only the astronauts as well as the studio team know they werent on the moon, ofcourse its impossible all those people would shut down but what if the rocket just orbit earth few weeks and the part of question (the actual landing on the moon) is the part wich is lied about.
The people working on it would actually believe everything went like shown in tv but 50 people know otherwise they are choosen becouse they are able to shut up and be quiet and let the rest of nasa/"The World" believe what they want to believe?
I know the moon landing is real becouse i checked every data avaible and came to the conclusion they would have made some error on the way.
And i dont start searching for them becouse we have those crazy conspiracy heads who would have found something to today as well as russia who has checked the data a 100 times probably ;D
Random people all over the world bounce signals off of mirrors planted on the surface of the moon all the time. My housemate who is an astrophysics student has needed to do it a few times. Denying the moon landing is willful ignorance, it's intellectually comparable to denying the moon itself. If you're going to go conspiracy, go big. NASA faked the moon.
kwark i would love to see a mod read my post carefully i was (past) thinking they might have faked it and i had my reasons behind it i wanna give you a insight about it and therefore i stated my old believes.
Those are stupid but not as stupid as you might think and therefore i wanted to give you a insight, i thought the threat is there for that.
Damn sometimes you make me mad kwark ;D have a nice day
It's not real because they would have made some error in faking it. It's real because there's shit up there which we put up there which you can check is there. Concluding it wasn't faked for dumb reasons isn't much better, you're missing the point which is that pretty much anyone can bounce stuff off of mirrors placed on the surface of the moon and check for themselves. Coming up with an a priori argument, even if it is also true (they couldn't have gotten away with faking it), misses the fact that needing that argument is massively idiotic.
Lol, please dont assume stuff wich isnt real the mirror wich was left behind was left behind at a later mission not apollo 11 to assume something is real becouse of stupid reasons is just massively idiotic as well kwark!
You would love to swing the hammer or close this wouldnt you?
Sorry, who exactly is denying one moon landing but accepting the others? I didn't realise that was a thing, it'd be pretty retarded.
No idea what a hammer has to do with anything.
You never read what i write do you? I never denied any moon landing. You sound retarded man you really do... Not saying you are but ignoring any explaination i give to you to insist on your first impression would be retarded. I explained how i thought it was fake 10 years ago. Im arguing for my 10 year younger self here who i believe is stupid as well, but you just not doing it right, Therefore you dont deserve any respect!
Or you insist on being a mod here to follow you blindly and accept everything you say as true and right wich i will never make!
You're arguing for your 10 year younger self, and KwarK is winning. Doesn't matter if you changed your mind/think your 10 year old self was stupid if you keep arguing for it and your arguments are being shot down. You can't say "I never denied any moon landing" when you are arguing for your 10 year younger self who DID deny the first moon landing but not the subsequent ones.
Well i dont argue that he was right i just told the arguments i had back then and he didnt made a propper point till now, you sound a little biased.
The points he is insisting on are just plain false: The mirror was plantet in a later mission than the first (wich is questioned the most), The argumends the doubters had were totally different we not even came there yet i just go step by step to the point i once reached.
Its pretty easy to take a shortcut and insist on being right becouse the other side is retarded its just not the way to avoid this oppinions overall. Its only a way to make them even stronger...
You actually all dont get my point and im fine with that im used to not be understand and i fear the truth might crack you all up
On February 19 2013 21:37 Tobberoth wrote: [quote] Of course they don't believe it's more plausible, just like a lot of insane people believe they are perfectly sane.
The thing with conspiracy theories is that it doesn't matter if the information is given knowlingly. The fact that the conspiracy would have to be so massive is what makes it so improbable. Check the numbers on the people who have worked for NASA in relation to the moon landings. Now assume that every single one of them is lying about the moon landing, and has kept the secret that it's fake until now. That's all you need to realize how extremely improbable it is that the moon landings were faked, yet conspiracy theorists still believe that, for no apparent reason.
Ha yes i believe they could have also tricked them and only the astronauts as well as the studio team know they werent on the moon, ofcourse its impossible all those people would shut down but what if the rocket just orbit earth few weeks and the part of question (the actual landing on the moon) is the part wich is lied about.
The people working on it would actually believe everything went like shown in tv but 50 people know otherwise they are choosen becouse they are able to shut up and be quiet and let the rest of nasa/"The World" believe what they want to believe?
I know the moon landing is real becouse i checked every data avaible and came to the conclusion they would have made some error on the way.
And i dont start searching for them becouse we have those crazy conspiracy heads who would have found something to today as well as russia who has checked the data a 100 times probably ;D
Random people all over the world bounce signals off of mirrors planted on the surface of the moon all the time. My housemate who is an astrophysics student has needed to do it a few times. Denying the moon landing is willful ignorance, it's intellectually comparable to denying the moon itself. If you're going to go conspiracy, go big. NASA faked the moon.
kwark i would love to see a mod read my post carefully i was (past) thinking they might have faked it and i had my reasons behind it i wanna give you a insight about it and therefore i stated my old believes.
Those are stupid but not as stupid as you might think and therefore i wanted to give you a insight, i thought the threat is there for that.
Damn sometimes you make me mad kwark ;D have a nice day
It's not real because they would have made some error in faking it. It's real because there's shit up there which we put up there which you can check is there. Concluding it wasn't faked for dumb reasons isn't much better, you're missing the point which is that pretty much anyone can bounce stuff off of mirrors placed on the surface of the moon and check for themselves. Coming up with an a priori argument, even if it is also true (they couldn't have gotten away with faking it), misses the fact that needing that argument is massively idiotic.
Lol, please dont assume stuff wich isnt real the mirror wich was left behind was left behind at a later mission not apollo 11 to assume something is real becouse of stupid reasons is just massively idiotic as well kwark!
You would love to swing the hammer or close this wouldnt you?
Sorry, who exactly is denying one moon landing but accepting the others? I didn't realise that was a thing, it'd be pretty retarded.
No idea what a hammer has to do with anything.
You never read what i write do you? I never denied any moon landing. You sound retarded man you really do... Not saying you are but ignoring any explaination i give to you to insist on your first impression would be retarded. I explained how i thought it was fake 10 years ago. Im arguing for my 10 year younger self here who i believe is stupid as well, but you just not doing it right, Therefore you dont deserve any respect!
Or you insist on being a mod here to follow you blindly and accept everything you say as true and right wich i will never make!
You're arguing for your 10 year younger self, and KwarK is winning. Doesn't matter if you changed your mind/think your 10 year old self was stupid if you keep arguing for it and your arguments are being shot down. You can't say "I never denied any moon landing" when you are arguing for your 10 year younger self who DID deny the first moon landing but not the subsequent ones.
Well i dont argue that he was right i just told the arguments i had back then and he didnt made a propper point till now, you sound a little biased.
The points he is insisting on are just plain false: The mirror was plantet in a later mission than the first (wich is questioned the most), The argumends the doubters had were totally different we not even came there yet i just go step by step to the point i once reached.
Its pretty easy to take a shortcut and insist on being right becouse the other side is retarded its just not the way to avoid this oppinions overall. Its only a way to make them even stronger...
You actually all dont get my point and im fine with that im used to not be understand and i fear the truth might crack you all up
We all know the mirror was planted on later missions. The point is that it's dumb to accept later missions (where the mirror was planted) without accepting Apollo 11, and that is what Kwark is arguing for.
On February 19 2013 21:41 Chilling5pr33 wrote: [quote]
Ha yes i believe they could have also tricked them and only the astronauts as well as the studio team know they werent on the moon, ofcourse its impossible all those people would shut down but what if the rocket just orbit earth few weeks and the part of question (the actual landing on the moon) is the part wich is lied about.
The people working on it would actually believe everything went like shown in tv but 50 people know otherwise they are choosen becouse they are able to shut up and be quiet and let the rest of nasa/"The World" believe what they want to believe?
I know the moon landing is real becouse i checked every data avaible and came to the conclusion they would have made some error on the way.
And i dont start searching for them becouse we have those crazy conspiracy heads who would have found something to today as well as russia who has checked the data a 100 times probably ;D
Random people all over the world bounce signals off of mirrors planted on the surface of the moon all the time. My housemate who is an astrophysics student has needed to do it a few times. Denying the moon landing is willful ignorance, it's intellectually comparable to denying the moon itself. If you're going to go conspiracy, go big. NASA faked the moon.
kwark i would love to see a mod read my post carefully i was (past) thinking they might have faked it and i had my reasons behind it i wanna give you a insight about it and therefore i stated my old believes.
Those are stupid but not as stupid as you might think and therefore i wanted to give you a insight, i thought the threat is there for that.
Damn sometimes you make me mad kwark ;D have a nice day
It's not real because they would have made some error in faking it. It's real because there's shit up there which we put up there which you can check is there. Concluding it wasn't faked for dumb reasons isn't much better, you're missing the point which is that pretty much anyone can bounce stuff off of mirrors placed on the surface of the moon and check for themselves. Coming up with an a priori argument, even if it is also true (they couldn't have gotten away with faking it), misses the fact that needing that argument is massively idiotic.
Lol, please dont assume stuff wich isnt real the mirror wich was left behind was left behind at a later mission not apollo 11 to assume something is real becouse of stupid reasons is just massively idiotic as well kwark!
You would love to swing the hammer or close this wouldnt you?
Sorry, who exactly is denying one moon landing but accepting the others? I didn't realise that was a thing, it'd be pretty retarded.
No idea what a hammer has to do with anything.
You never read what i write do you? I never denied any moon landing. You sound retarded man you really do... Not saying you are but ignoring any explaination i give to you to insist on your first impression would be retarded. I explained how i thought it was fake 10 years ago. Im arguing for my 10 year younger self here who i believe is stupid as well, but you just not doing it right, Therefore you dont deserve any respect!
Or you insist on being a mod here to follow you blindly and accept everything you say as true and right wich i will never make!
You're arguing for your 10 year younger self, and KwarK is winning. Doesn't matter if you changed your mind/think your 10 year old self was stupid if you keep arguing for it and your arguments are being shot down. You can't say "I never denied any moon landing" when you are arguing for your 10 year younger self who DID deny the first moon landing but not the subsequent ones.
Well i dont argue that he was right i just told the arguments i had back then and he didnt made a propper point till now, you sound a little biased.
The points he is insisting on are just plain false: The mirror was plantet in a later mission than the first (wich is questioned the most), The argumends the doubters had were totally different we not even came there yet i just go step by step to the point i once reached.
Its pretty easy to take a shortcut and insist on being right becouse the other side is retarded its just not the way to avoid this oppinions overall. Its only a way to make them even stronger...
You actually all dont get my point and im fine with that im used to not be understand and i fear the truth might crack you all up
We all know the mirror was planted on later missions. The point is that it's dumb to accept later missions (where the mirror was planted) without accepting Apollo 11, and that is what Kwark is arguing for.
Well its the MOST importand race in human history to win it by faking it is not stupid at all. If you are able to land on it but not now but in 3 month its not stupid at all to fake it.
Man im out have fun all living in this buitifull world of trust.
And for the record russians were super close to sending someone to the Moon as well...
I used to believe in conspiracy theories too; when I was younger and watched "loose change" so many things seemed suspicious, and I started to think it was all staged (i.e. 9/11).
But it was SO easy to dispel. Eventually, I made the choice that I think almost no conspiracy theorists make, and that is to actually look at the debunking websites and see what they had to say, even though at that point I was skeptical and a bit biased against them because I thought my beliefs were logical, and didn't want to see them falsified. And I found that almost every claim had no basis, and instead, had a logical, reasonable explanation. And instead of feeling a bit chagrined, I felt good because of how clear the debunker's reasoning and evidence were.
I don't remember the book now, but I remember it being something about how to think properly and the psychology of typical people. It said that most people don't use their intelligence correctly - often what they do is allow a pre-existing belief to form in their head, and they apply all of their intelligence to make it work (square peg in round hole), yet they never use their intelligence to analyze their fundamental belief.
I feel like that is happening with many theorists...and if I remember my conspiracy days correctly, the force against learning from the other side was a mix of: A) Gullibility B) Lack of applying critical thinking to my belief C) Getting caught up in the wonder and excitement of knowing "the truth", and feeling like a revolutionary.
It also happened with this guy "Stefan Molyneux" who is an anarcho-capitalist on youtube. But believing in anarchy is pretty much the same as being a conspiracy theorist, just because it has so many flaws when you look at it from a practical, historical basis. And when I questioned one "big-name" youtube anarchist on this, he said the world has fooled you, its all lies, and that it is possible. Basically, the conspiracy theorist answer.
You can see it in Stefan Molyneux's videos. He has the look and intensity of some kind of revolutionary, he is so caught up in his own rhetoric that his videos have become increasingly extreme, landing him (eventually) on Alex Jones' radio show. It is interesting to watch, how extremism feeds on itself and makes progressively more extreme claims. This may be what leads to those truly ridiculous theories about NASA faking the moon landing, or HAARP being an evil government weapon.
Its because he never questions his own beliefs. This is the problem with conspiracy theorists. They only use their brain to find ways to make it work, not to look at history or seriously study the "other side", because at this point their whole identity is that of being an anarchist, or a truther, etc. And at that point its too late; just like being a scientologist, you're lost, until one day things get so bad that you wake up and realize your mistake.
cant say i fully agree with what OP describes as a conspiracy theorist. my experience was quite different and i would describe it as more a "breaking free" of the predominant paradigm. For example, i want to see conclusive evidence for something to come to a conclusion, that is how i entered the world of "conspiracy" in the first place through investigating to the fullest and being left no other possible explanation.
you cant also describe all CT in the same light. i dont touch or talk about CT's that have no conclusive evidence to make a judgment on, but i do explore what is being said. I would also say that it is true that for some of the conspiracy theories to be true there would have to be a global conspiracy. without getting into it i feel i have seen enough evidence to support a western/european conspiracy.
being a conspiracy theorist for many i believe is just simply looking at the official story, finding the holes and proving that the official story is impossible and leaving it at that, sometimes what actually happened can be gleaned but for the most part it is speculation.
i do find this statement to be true;
"Truth is not a right; it's a great privilege only gained by a few through hard work and brutal self honesty. It's immature to expect things to be proven to you. When one recognizes his abject ignorance, truth seeking then becomes a desperation. Instead of asking something to be proven to him, the ignorant should seek out those who he suspects know more than him and beg to be taught. Only those who hold unquestioned premises have the luxury of taking a passive role, everyone else must either take an active role or choose to be ignorant."
On February 19 2013 22:57 KwarK wrote: [quote] Random people all over the world bounce signals off of mirrors planted on the surface of the moon all the time. My housemate who is an astrophysics student has needed to do it a few times. Denying the moon landing is willful ignorance, it's intellectually comparable to denying the moon itself. If you're going to go conspiracy, go big. NASA faked the moon.
kwark i would love to see a mod read my post carefully i was (past) thinking they might have faked it and i had my reasons behind it i wanna give you a insight about it and therefore i stated my old believes.
Those are stupid but not as stupid as you might think and therefore i wanted to give you a insight, i thought the threat is there for that.
Damn sometimes you make me mad kwark ;D have a nice day
It's not real because they would have made some error in faking it. It's real because there's shit up there which we put up there which you can check is there. Concluding it wasn't faked for dumb reasons isn't much better, you're missing the point which is that pretty much anyone can bounce stuff off of mirrors placed on the surface of the moon and check for themselves. Coming up with an a priori argument, even if it is also true (they couldn't have gotten away with faking it), misses the fact that needing that argument is massively idiotic.
Lol, please dont assume stuff wich isnt real the mirror wich was left behind was left behind at a later mission not apollo 11 to assume something is real becouse of stupid reasons is just massively idiotic as well kwark!
You would love to swing the hammer or close this wouldnt you?
Sorry, who exactly is denying one moon landing but accepting the others? I didn't realise that was a thing, it'd be pretty retarded.
No idea what a hammer has to do with anything.
You never read what i write do you? I never denied any moon landing. You sound retarded man you really do... Not saying you are but ignoring any explaination i give to you to insist on your first impression would be retarded. I explained how i thought it was fake 10 years ago. Im arguing for my 10 year younger self here who i believe is stupid as well, but you just not doing it right, Therefore you dont deserve any respect!
Or you insist on being a mod here to follow you blindly and accept everything you say as true and right wich i will never make!
You're arguing for your 10 year younger self, and KwarK is winning. Doesn't matter if you changed your mind/think your 10 year old self was stupid if you keep arguing for it and your arguments are being shot down. You can't say "I never denied any moon landing" when you are arguing for your 10 year younger self who DID deny the first moon landing but not the subsequent ones.
Well i dont argue that he was right i just told the arguments i had back then and he didnt made a propper point till now, you sound a little biased.
The points he is insisting on are just plain false: The mirror was plantet in a later mission than the first (wich is questioned the most), The argumends the doubters had were totally different we not even came there yet i just go step by step to the point i once reached.
Its pretty easy to take a shortcut and insist on being right becouse the other side is retarded its just not the way to avoid this oppinions overall. Its only a way to make them even stronger...
You actually all dont get my point and im fine with that im used to not be understand and i fear the truth might crack you all up
We all know the mirror was planted on later missions. The point is that it's dumb to accept later missions (where the mirror was planted) without accepting Apollo 11, and that is what Kwark is arguing for.
Well its the MOST importand race in human history to win it by faking it is not stupid at all. If you are able to land on it but not now but in 3 month its not stupid at all to fake it.
Man im out have fun all living in this buitifull world of trust.
And for the record russians were super close to sending someone to the Moon as well...
As we have already covered, faking the moon landing is a giganormous project. Not that it's possible in the first place, but to go through with such a ridiculous project 3 months from launch?
This is a perfect example of the problems of conspiracy theories, coming up with ridiculous premises just to make an idea which is already ridiculous work out when holes are found.
On February 20 2013 01:49 radscorpion9 wrote: I used to believe in conspiracy theories too; when I was younger and watched "loose change" so many things seemed suspicious, and I started to think it was all staged (i.e. 9/11).
But it was SO easy to dispel. Eventually, I made the choice that I think almost no conspiracy theorists make, and that is to actually look at the debunking websites and see what they had to say, even though at that point I was skeptical and a bit biased against them because I thought my beliefs were logical, and didn't want to see them falsified. And I found that almost every claim had no basis, and instead, had a logical, reasonable explanation. And instead of feeling a bit chagrined, I felt good because of how clear the debunker's reasoning and evidence were.
I don't remember the book now, but I remember it being something about how to think properly and the psychology of typical people. It said that most people don't use their intelligence correctly - often what they do is allow a pre-existing belief to form in their head, and they apply all of their intelligence to make it work (square peg in round hole), yet they never use their intelligence to analyze their fundamental belief.
I feel like that is happening with many theorists...and if I remember my conspiracy days correctly, the force against learning from the other side was a mix of: A) Gullibility B) Lack of applying critical thinking to my belief C) Getting caught up in the wonder and excitement of knowing "the truth", and feeling like a revolutionary.
It also happened with this guy "Stefan Molyneux" who is an anarcho-capitalist on youtube. But believing in anarchy is pretty much the same as being a conspiracy theorist, just because it has so many flaws when you look at it from a practical, historical basis. And when I questioned one "big-name" youtube anarchist on this, he said the world has fooled you, its all lies, and that it is possible. Basically, the conspiracy theorist answer.
You can see it in Stefan Molyneux's videos. He has the look and intensity of some kind of revolutionary, he is so caught up in his own rhetoric that his videos have become increasingly extreme, landing him (eventually) on Alex Jones' radio show. It is interesting to watch, how extremism feeds on itself and makes progressively more extreme claims. This may be what leads to those truly ridiculous theories about NASA faking the moon landing, or HAARP being an evil government weapon.
Its because he never questions his own beliefs. This is the problem with conspiracy theorists. They only use their brain to find ways to make it work, not to look at history or seriously study the "other side", because at this point their whole identity is that of being an anarchist, or a truther, etc. And at that point its too late, just like being a scientologist, you're lost.
Its better on the other side i really enjoy it as well but still i took something from there with me and thats when you have doubts you schould check every possible recource avaible and try to actually not be biased wich is a SUPER diffiult task.
I dont believe any of this theorys i get a headache from visiting those sites, it feels like they get paid for it (and they do). Its all about money in this buisness as well like in every other buisnes thats how the world works.
On February 19 2013 22:57 KwarK wrote: [quote] Random people all over the world bounce signals off of mirrors planted on the surface of the moon all the time. My housemate who is an astrophysics student has needed to do it a few times. Denying the moon landing is willful ignorance, it's intellectually comparable to denying the moon itself. If you're going to go conspiracy, go big. NASA faked the moon.
kwark i would love to see a mod read my post carefully i was (past) thinking they might have faked it and i had my reasons behind it i wanna give you a insight about it and therefore i stated my old believes.
Those are stupid but not as stupid as you might think and therefore i wanted to give you a insight, i thought the threat is there for that.
Damn sometimes you make me mad kwark ;D have a nice day
It's not real because they would have made some error in faking it. It's real because there's shit up there which we put up there which you can check is there. Concluding it wasn't faked for dumb reasons isn't much better, you're missing the point which is that pretty much anyone can bounce stuff off of mirrors placed on the surface of the moon and check for themselves. Coming up with an a priori argument, even if it is also true (they couldn't have gotten away with faking it), misses the fact that needing that argument is massively idiotic.
Lol, please dont assume stuff wich isnt real the mirror wich was left behind was left behind at a later mission not apollo 11 to assume something is real becouse of stupid reasons is just massively idiotic as well kwark!
You would love to swing the hammer or close this wouldnt you?
Sorry, who exactly is denying one moon landing but accepting the others? I didn't realise that was a thing, it'd be pretty retarded.
No idea what a hammer has to do with anything.
You never read what i write do you? I never denied any moon landing. You sound retarded man you really do... Not saying you are but ignoring any explaination i give to you to insist on your first impression would be retarded. I explained how i thought it was fake 10 years ago. Im arguing for my 10 year younger self here who i believe is stupid as well, but you just not doing it right, Therefore you dont deserve any respect!
Or you insist on being a mod here to follow you blindly and accept everything you say as true and right wich i will never make!
You're arguing for your 10 year younger self, and KwarK is winning. Doesn't matter if you changed your mind/think your 10 year old self was stupid if you keep arguing for it and your arguments are being shot down. You can't say "I never denied any moon landing" when you are arguing for your 10 year younger self who DID deny the first moon landing but not the subsequent ones.
Well i dont argue that he was right i just told the arguments i had back then and he didnt made a propper point till now, you sound a little biased.
The points he is insisting on are just plain false: The mirror was plantet in a later mission than the first (wich is questioned the most), The argumends the doubters had were totally different we not even came there yet i just go step by step to the point i once reached.
Its pretty easy to take a shortcut and insist on being right becouse the other side is retarded its just not the way to avoid this oppinions overall. Its only a way to make them even stronger...
You actually all dont get my point and im fine with that im used to not be understand and i fear the truth might crack you all up
We all know the mirror was planted on later missions. The point is that it's dumb to accept later missions (where the mirror was planted) without accepting Apollo 11, and that is what Kwark is arguing for.
Well its the MOST importand race in human history to win it by faking it is not stupid at all. If you are able to land on it but not now but in 3 month its not stupid at all to fake it.
Man im out have fun all living in this buitifull world of trust.
And for the record russians were super close to sending someone to the Moon as well...
Well but your edit showcases the whole problem with the US vs USSR thing: The Russians (and no other nation) were ever to land on the moon. Also all the deep space missions were "made in the US". No other nation has accomplished such a feat but the US repeatedly showed they were capable of such a mission.
The USSR didn't got 2nd place, they never finished.
But back to your conspiracy thing: The russians surely were listening to the radio and detecting the signals (as were others). So they sure would have disclosed the fraud. (But only if they really were enemys and not both controlled by the Bilderbergers. . . .)
On February 19 2013 22:59 Chilling5pr33 wrote: [quote] kwark i would love to see a mod read my post carefully i was (past) thinking they might have faked it and i had my reasons behind it i wanna give you a insight about it and therefore i stated my old believes.
Those are stupid but not as stupid as you might think and therefore i wanted to give you a insight, i thought the threat is there for that.
Damn sometimes you make me mad kwark ;D have a nice day
It's not real because they would have made some error in faking it. It's real because there's shit up there which we put up there which you can check is there. Concluding it wasn't faked for dumb reasons isn't much better, you're missing the point which is that pretty much anyone can bounce stuff off of mirrors placed on the surface of the moon and check for themselves. Coming up with an a priori argument, even if it is also true (they couldn't have gotten away with faking it), misses the fact that needing that argument is massively idiotic.
Lol, please dont assume stuff wich isnt real the mirror wich was left behind was left behind at a later mission not apollo 11 to assume something is real becouse of stupid reasons is just massively idiotic as well kwark!
You would love to swing the hammer or close this wouldnt you?
Sorry, who exactly is denying one moon landing but accepting the others? I didn't realise that was a thing, it'd be pretty retarded.
No idea what a hammer has to do with anything.
You never read what i write do you? I never denied any moon landing. You sound retarded man you really do... Not saying you are but ignoring any explaination i give to you to insist on your first impression would be retarded. I explained how i thought it was fake 10 years ago. Im arguing for my 10 year younger self here who i believe is stupid as well, but you just not doing it right, Therefore you dont deserve any respect!
Or you insist on being a mod here to follow you blindly and accept everything you say as true and right wich i will never make!
You're arguing for your 10 year younger self, and KwarK is winning. Doesn't matter if you changed your mind/think your 10 year old self was stupid if you keep arguing for it and your arguments are being shot down. You can't say "I never denied any moon landing" when you are arguing for your 10 year younger self who DID deny the first moon landing but not the subsequent ones.
Well i dont argue that he was right i just told the arguments i had back then and he didnt made a propper point till now, you sound a little biased.
The points he is insisting on are just plain false: The mirror was plantet in a later mission than the first (wich is questioned the most), The argumends the doubters had were totally different we not even came there yet i just go step by step to the point i once reached.
Its pretty easy to take a shortcut and insist on being right becouse the other side is retarded its just not the way to avoid this oppinions overall. Its only a way to make them even stronger...
You actually all dont get my point and im fine with that im used to not be understand and i fear the truth might crack you all up
We all know the mirror was planted on later missions. The point is that it's dumb to accept later missions (where the mirror was planted) without accepting Apollo 11, and that is what Kwark is arguing for.
Well its the MOST importand race in human history to win it by faking it is not stupid at all. If you are able to land on it but not now but in 3 month its not stupid at all to fake it.
Man im out have fun all living in this buitifull world of trust.
And for the record russians were super close to sending someone to the Moon as well...
Well but your edit showcases the whole problem with the US vs USSR thing: The Russians (and no other nation) were ever to land on the moon. Also all the deep space missions were "made in the US". No other nation has accomplished such a feat but the US repeatedly showed they were capable of such a mission.
The USSR didn't got 2nd place, they never finished.
But back to your conspiracy thing: The russians surely were listening to the radio and detecting the signals (as were others). So they sure would have disclosed the fraud. (But only if they really were enemys and not both controlled by the Bilderbergers. . . .)
What i really believe is that the russians, while self not being able to land there, were trying to at least make it as expensive and recource intensive for the US to reach the moon they did so by faking data that they were pretty close to landing while abandoning the project long ago to save recources and money. The US feeling the pressure might have made something stupid like faking the last actual landing. The calculations the landing itself was a MEGA difficult task and just one little part not functioning properly would have put the whole mission and the lifes of the astronauts at risk. I would prefer the US to fake the landing than let see millions on earth how those brave man die live in TV.
On February 20 2013 01:53 Vivax wrote: "Don't you believe our own government would say they've been attacked by the Poles to have a casus belli?" "Nah man, that's just conspiracy theories"
-German citizen around 1939
Consider it an anecdote. A lot of theories are so full of shit that the plausible ones get labeled as conspiracies and lost in that blob.
Since you are from Italy, shouldn't you mention Giuseppe Gulotta, which is a real conspiracy? (Most likely)
On February 20 2013 01:53 Vivax wrote: "Don't you believe our own government would say they've been attacked by the Poles to have a casus belli?" "Nah man, that's just conspiracy theories"
-German citizen around 1939
Consider it an anecdote. A lot of theories are so full of shit that the plausible ones get labeled as conspiracies and lost in that blob.
this i find to be the main problem surrounding the idea of conspiracy theories. if its against the official narrative it get automatically labelled a conspiracy theory along with lizard men, fake moon landings, etc...
there are many conspiracy theories out there with little to no merit and due to this people will automatically dismiss legitimate conspiracy theories out there that have very strong supporting evidence.
EPT
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