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On February 19 2013 21:09 Tobberoth wrote:
A conspiracy theorist basically say "I could believe X, or I could believe Y. X if FAR more probable, so I'll believe Y". Which sounds quite irrational IMO.
I think it isnt that easy they actually dont think one is more plausible than the other, they think the information leading to that conclusion is false and given knowingly.
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Sorry i usually refuse to talk about this since i "cracked up" more than one of my friends with it and i hope you dont go into fear or hatred from the point of doupt, it took me hell lot to still believe the world and humanity isnt evil all along so please just dont take it too serious if i raised the light of doupt in you.
If i dont and you think im just plain stupid im actually pretty fine with it :D
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I'll try to give you some hints on what may be the reasons for your points you made, as I got a slight udnerstanding of how materials work etc.
On February 19 2013 20:49 CV-Mackh wrote:
Like in a very scientific way, it's reasonable to ask yourself, how can the World trade center collapsed at the free fall speed, which is a scientific fact. Some basic math point that out, and yes it involves it somehow collapsed from bottom or at least from within.
Let's ask the question, what is free-fall speed? It is an steady acceleration with around 9,81m/s per second (at least here in GER) and it does not matter which mass is involved. What prevents a human (when jumping out of a plane) to experience a steady acceleration? Exactly, air resistance! Now you gotta put 1 and 1 together. If a building collapses, where is the air resistance to may slow it down? Exactly, there is nearly none, as the air gets pressed outside the building, which pretty much is the only "air resistance" there is. And as gases are choosing the easiest and shortest way when under pressure... 
Which leaves us with another scientific dilemma, how can the structure can collapse from bottom or from within when the pillars where made from a very specific steel not supposed to melt anywhere near the fuel combustion temperature.
You dont need a temperature near the melting point to lose a deciding amount of stability. Those pillars are normally protected by an isolation, which protects the inner structure from heat. Steel (there are a shitton of different steels out there) are already losing a deciding amount of their attributes at 40% of the melting temperature. That's why there is an isolation protecting the pillars. But you can imagine what happens, if that isolation is just gone, sand-blasted by a plane. (which I doubt was taken into account when calculating the building)
Plus the fact that they recovered a passport made of paper in the crash site, but they couldn't find the flight data recorder supposed to resist pretty much anything.
You can't tell where that passport was in etc. I dont seea connection there. Hell, ppl die from mines and are blown to pieces, and the pic in their jacket is still there.
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On February 19 2013 19:32 wozzot wrote:Sneaky sneaky~
osnap
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On February 19 2013 21:21 Eisregen wrote:I'll try to give you some hints on what may be the reasons for your points you made, as I got a slight udnerstanding of how materials work etc. Show nested quote +On February 19 2013 20:49 CV-Mackh wrote:
Like in a very scientific way, it's reasonable to ask yourself, how can the World trade center collapsed at the free fall speed, which is a scientific fact. Some basic math point that out, and yes it involves it somehow collapsed from bottom or at least from within. Let's ask the question, what is free-fall speed? It is an stead acceleration with around 9,81m/s per second and it does not matter which mass is involved. What prevents a human (when jumping out of a plane) to experience a steady acceleration? Exactly, air resistance! Now you gotta put 1 and 1 together. If a building collapses, where is the air resistance to maybe slow it down? Exactly, there is nearly none, as the air gets pressed outside the building, which pretty much is the only "air resistance" there is. And as gases are choosing the easiest and shortest way when under pressure...
In truth, it's much easier: it is a lie. The building didn't collapse at "free fall speed". Stop believing shitty youtube videos.
http://www.debunking911.com/freefall.htm
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I'm a free thinker and don't want to bound my beliefs to a box or be molded by the TV.
I'm not biased, I'm not reactionary, I'm rational, reasonable, hardly mislead, and most certainly not bigoted. Seeing as you posted all these bad traits I'd say you are a government shill like its been admitted and leaked that exist who's sole job is to make "conspiracy theorists" look bad and you certainly did that with your post.
I look at the statistics, history, documents, etc... and find out that the biggest liars are governments, most corrupt are governments, biggest unnatural killers of humans are governments, so I don't trust anything that known and certified liars tell me.
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If you are a "real conspiracy theorist" you also doubt the conspiracy theorys, they could be thrown in to avoid to talk about the actual problems and push everyone having any doubt in the same pot wich makes them all look stupid.
Pretty easy to avoid questioning like this all along.
Edit:
doubt doubt doubt doubt ;D
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On February 19 2013 21:12 Chilling5pr33 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2013 21:09 Tobberoth wrote:
A conspiracy theorist basically say "I could believe X, or I could believe Y. X if FAR more probable, so I'll believe Y". Which sounds quite irrational IMO. I think it isnt that easy they actually dont think one is more plausible than the other, they think the information leading to that conclusion is false and given knowingly.
Of course they don't believe it's more plausible, just like a lot of insane people believe they are perfectly sane.
The thing with conspiracy theories is that it doesn't matter if the information is given knowlingly. The fact that the conspiracy would have to be so massive is what makes it so improbable. Check the numbers on the people who have worked for NASA in relation to the moon landings. Now assume that every single one of them is lying about the moon landing, and has kept the secret that it's fake until now. That's all you need to realize how extremely improbable it is that the moon landings were faked, yet conspiracy theorists still believe that, for no apparent reason.
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On February 19 2013 21:28 Chilling5pr33 wrote:
If you are a "real conspiracy theorist" you also doubt the conspiracy theorys being thrown in to avoid to talk abou the actual problems and push everyone having any doubt in the same pot wich makes them all look stupid.
Pretty easy to avoid questioning like this all along.
Correct.
The problem is where you get communities of conspiracy theorists who all believe the same thing. What you find is that the most irrational and extreme forms of conspiracy theories are the ones that get picked up by the most people.
To say that governments lie all the time is one thing. Its very much harder to find out what the truth actually is.
To be honest, if there was a huge conspiracy going on it would not be so easy to find out what it was.
Psychologically, its pretty easy to see why people are drawn to these theories. Where there is missing information, people are naturally drawn to a single, all encompassing explanation. This is reinforced by the sense of community that these people feel through having the same beliefs and ideas (notice the obvious comparison).
Being a critical thinker who wants to get to the truth and discover the facts about conspiracies is a far more lonely existence than being part of a conspiracy theorists group.
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On February 19 2013 21:37 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2013 21:12 Chilling5pr33 wrote:On February 19 2013 21:09 Tobberoth wrote:
A conspiracy theorist basically say "I could believe X, or I could believe Y. X if FAR more probable, so I'll believe Y". Which sounds quite irrational IMO. I think it isnt that easy they actually dont think one is more plausible than the other, they think the information leading to that conclusion is false and given knowingly. Of course they don't believe it's more plausible, just like a lot of insane people believe they are perfectly sane. The thing with conspiracy theories is that it doesn't matter if the information is given knowlingly. The fact that the conspiracy would have to be so massive is what makes it so improbable. Check the numbers on the people who have worked for NASA in relation to the moon landings. Now assume that every single one of them is lying about the moon landing, and has kept the secret that it's fake until now. That's all you need to realize how extremely improbable it is that the moon landings were faked, yet conspiracy theorists still believe that, for no apparent reason.
Ha yes i believe they could have also tricked them and only the astronauts as well as the studio team know they werent on the moon, ofcourse its impossible all those people would shut down but what if the rocket just orbit earth few weeks and the part of question (the actual landing on the moon) is the part wich is lied about.
The people working on it would actually believe everything went like shown in tv but 50 people know otherwise they are choosen becouse they are able to shut up and be quiet and let the rest of nasa/"The World" believe what they want to believe?
I know the moon landing is real becouse i checked every data avaible and came to the conclusion they would have made some error on the way.
And i dont start searching for them becouse we have those crazy conspiracy heads who would have found something to today as well as russia who has checked the data a 100 times probably ;D
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On February 19 2013 21:41 Chilling5pr33 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2013 21:37 Tobberoth wrote:On February 19 2013 21:12 Chilling5pr33 wrote:On February 19 2013 21:09 Tobberoth wrote:
A conspiracy theorist basically say "I could believe X, or I could believe Y. X if FAR more probable, so I'll believe Y". Which sounds quite irrational IMO. I think it isnt that easy they actually dont think one is more plausible than the other, they think the information leading to that conclusion is false and given knowingly. Of course they don't believe it's more plausible, just like a lot of insane people believe they are perfectly sane. The thing with conspiracy theories is that it doesn't matter if the information is given knowlingly. The fact that the conspiracy would have to be so massive is what makes it so improbable. Check the numbers on the people who have worked for NASA in relation to the moon landings. Now assume that every single one of them is lying about the moon landing, and has kept the secret that it's fake until now. That's all you need to realize how extremely improbable it is that the moon landings were faked, yet conspiracy theorists still believe that, for no apparent reason. Ha yes i believe they could have also tricked them and only the astronauts as well as the studio team know they werent on the moon, ofcourse its impossible all those people would shut down but what if the rocket just orbit earth few weeks and the part of question (the actual landing on the moon) is the part wich is lied about. The people working on it would actually believe everything went like shown in tv but 50 people know otherwise they are choosen becouse they are able to shut up and be quiet and let the rest of nasa/"The World" believe what they want to believe? I know the moon landing is real becouse i checked every data avaible and came to the conclusion they would have made some error on the way. And i dont start searching for them becouse we have those crazy conspiracy heads who would have found something to today as well as russia who has checked the data a 100 times probably ;D
That just makes it even more improbable. Many of the people working at NASA had extremely complicated jobs and are expert scientists in their field. You're basically saying that for the conspiracy theory to make any sense, about 50 people together were able to fool all of those experts and simulate the real situation for them, while at the same time making fake footage from the moon and streaming live.
It's so improbable that all the arguments against it happening suddenly become miniscule. You get to the point where actually going to the moon is easier than faking it.
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On February 19 2013 21:57 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2013 21:41 Chilling5pr33 wrote:On February 19 2013 21:37 Tobberoth wrote:On February 19 2013 21:12 Chilling5pr33 wrote:On February 19 2013 21:09 Tobberoth wrote:
A conspiracy theorist basically say "I could believe X, or I could believe Y. X if FAR more probable, so I'll believe Y". Which sounds quite irrational IMO. I think it isnt that easy they actually dont think one is more plausible than the other, they think the information leading to that conclusion is false and given knowingly. Of course they don't believe it's more plausible, just like a lot of insane people believe they are perfectly sane. The thing with conspiracy theories is that it doesn't matter if the information is given knowlingly. The fact that the conspiracy would have to be so massive is what makes it so improbable. Check the numbers on the people who have worked for NASA in relation to the moon landings. Now assume that every single one of them is lying about the moon landing, and has kept the secret that it's fake until now. That's all you need to realize how extremely improbable it is that the moon landings were faked, yet conspiracy theorists still believe that, for no apparent reason. Ha yes i believe they could have also tricked them and only the astronauts as well as the studio team know they werent on the moon, ofcourse its impossible all those people would shut down but what if the rocket just orbit earth few weeks and the part of question (the actual landing on the moon) is the part wich is lied about. The people working on it would actually believe everything went like shown in tv but 50 people know otherwise they are choosen becouse they are able to shut up and be quiet and let the rest of nasa/"The World" believe what they want to believe? I know the moon landing is real becouse i checked every data avaible and came to the conclusion they would have made some error on the way. And i dont start searching for them becouse we have those crazy conspiracy heads who would have found something to today as well as russia who has checked the data a 100 times probably ;D That just makes it even more improbable. Many of the people working at NASA had extremely complicated jobs and are expert scientists in their field. You're basically saying that for the conspiracy theory to make any sense, about 50 people together were able to fool all of those experts and simulate the real situation for them, while at the same time making fake footage from the moon and streaming live. It's so improbable that all the arguments against it happening suddenly become miniscule. You get to the point where actually going to the moon is easier than faking it.
Yep i know i know i was smal and i was never sure but i thought it would be theoretical possible its a stupid thing to think and i agree, you try to talk to a person who died 10 years ago ;D
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On February 19 2013 18:22 sc4k wrote:Yeah I unfortunately have to regularly interact with two people who are nice although they are conspiracy theorists. They are woefully ignorant of politics and the law. And attempt to educate them is dismissed as an attempt to convert them to live under the thumb of the man. Their entire belief system comes from unproven assumptions. They and their friends just make me laugh, because I can't believe how ignorant and silly they are, at the same time as thinking that I am the ignorant one. I mean they even try to lecture me on the law, something I studied, on things that I specifically studied and can point to the textbook or relevant case that will disprove what they are stating...and they still think that I am the ignorant one. Holy sugar...this sort of person is frustrating. Show nested quote +On February 19 2013 16:29 fight_or_flight wrote:
[b]"Conspiracy theorists" are not a special group, they are simply responding rationally to their environment. Ironically, in my (biased) opinion, "non-conspiracy theorists" are the irrational ones. You've got to be fucking kidding me.
Hahahahaha priceless! xD
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I can tolerate quiet conspiracy theorists, but the evangelical ones really do piss me off.
Was living together with one, and he actually asked me to use a lan cable instead of wifi because of radiation. with our flat being about 300 m away from the frigging, huge ass television tower of Prague and constantly using his mobile
He also put a paperclip onto my laundry powder to contain the possibly-poisonous emanations from the bag.
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If I had something to hide that was as insane as some conspiracy theories I'd change a few facts to make it seem false and put it on the internet along with 10 other conspiracy theories.
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On February 19 2013 22:19 Rimstalker wrote:
I can tolerate quiet conspiracy theorists, but the evangelical ones really do piss me off.
Was living together with one, and he actually asked me to use a lan cable instead of wifi because of radiation. with our flat being about 300 m away from the frigging, huge ass television tower of Prague and constantly using his mobile
He also put a paperclip onto my laundry powder to contain the possibly-poisonous emanations from the bag.
Yep the line is thin and stupid people with doubts are super annoying, i agree, but please try to disprove them instead of building up hate, and try to help them becouse they arent enjoying it either.
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On February 19 2013 22:24 Chilling5pr33 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2013 22:19 Rimstalker wrote:
I can tolerate quiet conspiracy theorists, but the evangelical ones really do piss me off.
Was living together with one, and he actually asked me to use a lan cable instead of wifi because of radiation. with our flat being about 300 m away from the frigging, huge ass television tower of Prague and constantly using his mobile
He also put a paperclip onto my laundry powder to contain the possibly-poisonous emanations from the bag.
Yep the line is thin and stupid people with doubts are super annoying, i agree, but please try to disprove them instead of building up hate, and try to help them becouse they arent enjoying it either.
You've clearly not dealt with these kinds of people before. Telling them they're wrong or trying to argue with reason or logic or fact is just met by a brick wall of denial because they've spent years building up a paranoid narrative involving governmets or corporations or some entity conspiring against them and common people and they are one of the few who seems to be able to see it and that makes them special in their mind.
They won't allow you take that away from them because then they are just faced with the reality that they are not special, they are not smart and they do not understand the world.
At least those are the sorts of people who don't naturally grow out of it, I don't think I'd blame someone for falling for the kinds of youtube videos you see when they are young and impressionable with feelings of rebellion (ie teens) but normal people grow out of it or don't care enough to really take it seriously. Those still blathering on about this crap when they're well into their 20's or older are hopeless and the best solution is to just ignore them and hope they go pester someone else.
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United States43195 Posts
On February 19 2013 21:27 Gamer_Girl wrote:
I look at the statistics, history, documents, etc... and find out that the biggest liars are governments, most corrupt are governments, biggest unnatural killers of humans are governments, so I don't trust anything that known and certified liars tell me.
The biggest liar is Lance Armstrong.
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On February 19 2013 22:44 adwodon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2013 22:24 Chilling5pr33 wrote:On February 19 2013 22:19 Rimstalker wrote:
I can tolerate quiet conspiracy theorists, but the evangelical ones really do piss me off.
Was living together with one, and he actually asked me to use a lan cable instead of wifi because of radiation. with our flat being about 300 m away from the frigging, huge ass television tower of Prague and constantly using his mobile
He also put a paperclip onto my laundry powder to contain the possibly-poisonous emanations from the bag.
Yep the line is thin and stupid people with doubts are super annoying, i agree, but please try to disprove them instead of building up hate, and try to help them becouse they arent enjoying it either. You've clearly not dealt with these kinds of people before. Telling them they're wrong or trying to argue with reason or logic or fact is just met by a brick wall of denial because they've spent years building up a paranoid narrative involving governmets or corporations or some entity conspiring against them and common people and they are one of the few who seems to be able to see it and that makes them special in their mind. They won't allow you take that away from them because then they are just faced with the reality that they are not special, they are not smart and they do not understand the world. At least those are the sorts of people who don't naturally grow out of it, I don't think I'd blame someone for falling for the kinds of youtube videos you see when they are young and impressionable with feelings of rebellion (ie teens) but normal people grow out of it or don't care enough to really take it seriously. Those still blathering on about this crap when they're well into their 20's or older are hopeless and the best solution is to just ignore them and hope they go pester someone else.
Since everyone use to throw me into this pot with them i do.
I have to argue for them as well becouse they do a great job in questioning everything im actually depending on them to find the truth.
I am clearly closer to them than to some others and i just lost the fire to fight for it and i feel sad about it becouse i gave up on the public opinion as well as the goverments worldwide.
No one wants to see hear or listen to the truth you can get pretty mad about that,
and i had never any problem to talk to either side but both had problems to talk to me.
If you listen carefully you can still reach them and you can actually push both in the other direction i have about 4 friends who had big psycholocigal problems after i talked with them about those things. (2 killed themselve)
I doubt it was only my opinion which made them mad but i believe the sorrounding reaction (disbelieve) was making them feel sad and alone.
I dont have time to guide every single person after i opend theire minds to disbelieve and i doubt as well that i have such a hughe impact on people but what the following action were made me rethink to share my opinion with others.
And thats the real problem in my opinion. But having no solution at hand i shut up and drink my coffee. ;D
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United States43195 Posts
On February 19 2013 21:41 Chilling5pr33 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2013 21:37 Tobberoth wrote:On February 19 2013 21:12 Chilling5pr33 wrote:On February 19 2013 21:09 Tobberoth wrote:
A conspiracy theorist basically say "I could believe X, or I could believe Y. X if FAR more probable, so I'll believe Y". Which sounds quite irrational IMO. I think it isnt that easy they actually dont think one is more plausible than the other, they think the information leading to that conclusion is false and given knowingly. Of course they don't believe it's more plausible, just like a lot of insane people believe they are perfectly sane. The thing with conspiracy theories is that it doesn't matter if the information is given knowlingly. The fact that the conspiracy would have to be so massive is what makes it so improbable. Check the numbers on the people who have worked for NASA in relation to the moon landings. Now assume that every single one of them is lying about the moon landing, and has kept the secret that it's fake until now. That's all you need to realize how extremely improbable it is that the moon landings were faked, yet conspiracy theorists still believe that, for no apparent reason. Ha yes i believe they could have also tricked them and only the astronauts as well as the studio team know they werent on the moon, ofcourse its impossible all those people would shut down but what if the rocket just orbit earth few weeks and the part of question (the actual landing on the moon) is the part wich is lied about. The people working on it would actually believe everything went like shown in tv but 50 people know otherwise they are choosen becouse they are able to shut up and be quiet and let the rest of nasa/"The World" believe what they want to believe? I know the moon landing is real becouse i checked every data avaible and came to the conclusion they would have made some error on the way. And i dont start searching for them becouse we have those crazy conspiracy heads who would have found something to today as well as russia who has checked the data a 100 times probably ;D
Random people all over the world bounce signals off of mirrors planted on the surface of the moon all the time. My housemate who is an astrophysics student has needed to do it a few times. Denying the moon landing is willful ignorance, it's intellectually comparable to denying the moon itself. If you're going to go conspiracy, go big. NASA faked the moon.
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