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excuse me for that language.
but that stupid cunt doesnt deserve anything less. some people just need to get beaten up to learn there lesson once and for all.
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On December 13 2012 23:31 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:-the "girls" are terrible stupid bitches and scum. no question. -its sad that NO ONE did anything. atleast at the point where they go behind the counter the rest of the staff should just cut of their way/do something. doubt they wouldve started a fight with the whole staff when they just stood in the way while he goes somewhere in the back. -while the girls had it coming its still not ok to beat em down with a weapon and continue when they already hit the floor overall a shitty story. scum beeing scum, other people beeing passive idiots, him going too quickly too far. Show nested quote +On December 13 2012 23:20 ETisME wrote:
just to say that it's easy to just say he should have stopped after she was on the floor.
but when one is so provoked and angry, it could have been a lot worse considering how many tools he has in the kitchen area.
I could think of the hot boiling oils for the chips etc is getting angry a excuse for excessive violence? was he really in such a danger that beating people down breaking bones is fine? in the end the only physical thing from them was a bitchslap. its hard to say.
i don't fuckign get you people....
do they have 2 break his famr or something so he can fucking hit back or something? they fucking slap him. they fucking jump over 2 get close 2 him while he runs away.
fuck yes he can hit them till they stay the fuck down.
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On December 14 2012 00:38 Spekulatius wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 00:28 fleeze wrote:On December 14 2012 00:18 Spekulatius wrote:
I can't speak for the US of course but on the basis of German law, there's no discussion to be had.
1. State of assault
He was assaulted by another person. His life/health was in danger. Which gives him the right to
2. Use defensive measures
against the attacker by trying to stop his attack effectively and for a foreseeable future. He is permitted to hit them until they stop being a threat. Which, in that case, is until they stay down or get firmly held by bystanders/the police.
Hitting them with fists wouldn't have been equally effective. So he was allowed to use that kind of metal bar he was swinging.
There's no reason not to let him defend himself the way he did, seeing how the women tried to stand up with the intent of attacking him further.
That's what laws are for where I come from. Noone's fucking allowed to attack you for no valid reason. And if laws don't stop him/her from doing that, I will and I'm allowed to do so. seems like you live in a different germany than i do. violence even in self-defense gets punished by german courts. especially since in germany you NEVER expect people to wear guns/ be heavily armed even if they assault you. he wouldn't necessarily be sentenced to prison but he would get AT LEAST a fine on every german court. Common misconception, but flat out wrong. Just look at this recent case: A member of a gang shot a policeman through a door thinking his life was in danger (which it never was). He was acquitted on ANY charge. No fine, no nothing. LinkuThere's more, less extreme examples. I can dig them up if you like me to.
one case, point proven.
if you can't see the special case here i don't know.
he's a GANG MEMBER. so maybe he expected other ARMED gang members to come after him. a very rare case in germany were a very low percentage of people are armed.
it's not a misconception that german courts value "self-defence" very strict and punish excessive violence very often.
edit:
On December 14 2012 00:39 rEalGuapo wrote:
Erm, ... No.
Self-defense is permitted. Google "Notwehr".
yes, it is permitted. but german courts valuate "excessive" much more strict than other countrys.
shooting someone in self-defence will get you to jail nearly every time (rare exceptions are cases like the above).
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If he'd stopped hitting them when they were floored I would have supported him 100%. I would have hit them too "Don't hit girls" goes out the window when they hit you.
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On December 14 2012 00:41 HULKAMANIA wrote:
Ultimately it’s a valuable lesson. If baseline levels of emotional maturity and human decency are not enough to keep you from physically assaulting perfect strangers, maybe the thought that the stranger might be an ex-convict who will snap and hospitalize you might give you pause.
That last part really fits your name ....
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On December 14 2012 00:42 Eufouria wrote:
If he'd stopped hitting them when they were floored I would have supported him 100%. "Don't hit girls" goes out the window when they hit you.
Equal rights, equal fights.
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On December 14 2012 00:35 Sea_Food wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 00:31 Golbat wrote:
What he did was totally justified. If you've ever seen black girls fight, you'd know they go apeshit once the punches start flying. It might have looked like excessive violence, but you can't see the girls on the ground after they go down, they might have still been coming at him.
Episodes like this sicken me because shit doesn't truly hit the fan until the man hits back, and then every uppity feminist in the place loses their mind. One of the biggest beefs I have with our society is the notion that men simply aren't allowed to hit women. One day people will understand that just because you have a vagina doesn't mean there's an invisible forcefield shielding you from the fists of men, and that you can't just hit them and expect no recourse
/rant Does not matter if it was a woman, a child, or a 250pound body builder. He was hitting people on the ground. With a weapon. In any civilized nation that man would have got at least 5 years in jail. But i guess this is america so money = human rights.
The black, ex-con who had been working at McDonalds in the few months since his release from prison got off because of "money." Brilliant analysis.
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On December 14 2012 00:41 Hypemeup wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 00:39 Sea_Food wrote:On December 14 2012 00:38 Hypemeup wrote:On December 14 2012 00:35 Sea_Food wrote:On December 14 2012 00:31 Golbat wrote:
What he did was totally justified. If you've ever seen black girls fight, you'd know they go apeshit once the punches start flying. It might have looked like excessive violence, but you can't see the girls on the ground after they go down, they might have still been coming at him.
Episodes like this sicken me because shit doesn't truly hit the fan until the man hits back, and then every uppity feminist in the place loses their mind. One of the biggest beefs I have with our society is the notion that men simply aren't allowed to hit women. One day people will understand that just because you have a vagina doesn't mean there's an invisible forcefield shielding you from the fists of men, and that you can't just hit them and expect no recourse
/rant Does not matter if it was a woman, a child, or a 250pound body builder. He was hitting people on the ground. With a weapon. In any civilized nation that man would have got at least 5 years in jail. But i guess this is america so money = human rights. There is no way for us to reasonably know if they were actually on the ground or in the process of trying to get up again. If the latter is true he was not at fault at all. Someone lying on the ground being hit with a metal pipes does not stay still to take the beating. Yeah defiantly deserves some more. You apparently do not understand what I meant. From the video available to us, there is no way for us to know if there were attacking his legs or trying to get up to go at him again, since we could not see them behind the counter. If we had the store cameras showing us a diffrent angle, you might have an argument.
Well i know for a fact where i live the man would have got atleast some prison time for using a weapon just for the first hit, even if there was a threat for him.
What you are supposed to do in that situation is walk out and call the cops.
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why did he hit them so softly? Very mannered of him. I would have beaten her face until she ceased speaking.
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On December 14 2012 00:45 Sea_Food wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 00:41 Hypemeup wrote:On December 14 2012 00:39 Sea_Food wrote:On December 14 2012 00:38 Hypemeup wrote:On December 14 2012 00:35 Sea_Food wrote:On December 14 2012 00:31 Golbat wrote:
What he did was totally justified. If you've ever seen black girls fight, you'd know they go apeshit once the punches start flying. It might have looked like excessive violence, but you can't see the girls on the ground after they go down, they might have still been coming at him.
Episodes like this sicken me because shit doesn't truly hit the fan until the man hits back, and then every uppity feminist in the place loses their mind. One of the biggest beefs I have with our society is the notion that men simply aren't allowed to hit women. One day people will understand that just because you have a vagina doesn't mean there's an invisible forcefield shielding you from the fists of men, and that you can't just hit them and expect no recourse
/rant Does not matter if it was a woman, a child, or a 250pound body builder. He was hitting people on the ground. With a weapon. In any civilized nation that man would have got at least 5 years in jail. But i guess this is america so money = human rights. There is no way for us to reasonably know if they were actually on the ground or in the process of trying to get up again. If the latter is true he was not at fault at all. Someone lying on the ground being hit with a metal pipes does not stay still to take the beating. Yeah defiantly deserves some more. You apparently do not understand what I meant. From the video available to us, there is no way for us to know if there were attacking his legs or trying to get up to go at him again, since we could not see them behind the counter. If we had the store cameras showing us a diffrent angle, you might have an argument. Well i know for a fact where i live the man would have got atleast some prison time for using a weapon just for the first hit, even if there was a threat for him. What you are supposed to do in that situation is walk out and call the cops.
What an awesome idea, go out and call the cops while you are getting chased by 2 crazy black bitches who are probably either drunk or on drugs. Add to that the fact that he didn't know if they had knives or guns with them.
Yeah sure, go out and call the cops, I'm sure you'll be fine by the time they arrive.
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On December 14 2012 00:43 noD wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 00:41 HULKAMANIA wrote:
Ultimately it’s a valuable lesson. If baseline levels of emotional maturity and human decency are not enough to keep you from physically assaulting perfect strangers, maybe the thought that the stranger might be an ex-convict who will snap and hospitalize you might give you pause.
That last part really fits your name ....
Haha. What can I say? I do my best to keep it real.
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On December 14 2012 00:45 Sea_Food wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 00:41 Hypemeup wrote:On December 14 2012 00:39 Sea_Food wrote:On December 14 2012 00:38 Hypemeup wrote:On December 14 2012 00:35 Sea_Food wrote:On December 14 2012 00:31 Golbat wrote:
What he did was totally justified. If you've ever seen black girls fight, you'd know they go apeshit once the punches start flying. It might have looked like excessive violence, but you can't see the girls on the ground after they go down, they might have still been coming at him.
Episodes like this sicken me because shit doesn't truly hit the fan until the man hits back, and then every uppity feminist in the place loses their mind. One of the biggest beefs I have with our society is the notion that men simply aren't allowed to hit women. One day people will understand that just because you have a vagina doesn't mean there's an invisible forcefield shielding you from the fists of men, and that you can't just hit them and expect no recourse
/rant Does not matter if it was a woman, a child, or a 250pound body builder. He was hitting people on the ground. With a weapon. In any civilized nation that man would have got at least 5 years in jail. But i guess this is america so money = human rights. There is no way for us to reasonably know if they were actually on the ground or in the process of trying to get up again. If the latter is true he was not at fault at all. Someone lying on the ground being hit with a metal pipes does not stay still to take the beating. Yeah defiantly deserves some more. You apparently do not understand what I meant. From the video available to us, there is no way for us to know if there were attacking his legs or trying to get up to go at him again, since we could not see them behind the counter. If we had the store cameras showing us a diffrent angle, you might have an argument. Well i know for a fact where i live the man would have got atleast some prison time for using a weapon just for the first hit, even if there was a threat for him. What you are supposed to do in that situation is walk out and call the cops.
He did attempt to retreat from the situation, they gave chase. Mind you they had already hit him(well, slapped) once when he did this. Obviously violence was not his first response to this.
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What you are supposed to do in that situation is walk out and call the cops.
It's really hard to do that if they come from different angles with the only purpose to prevent that from happening though..
Did you not see the second woman taking the longer route because that is the way out of there?
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On December 14 2012 00:46 BlitzerSC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 00:45 Sea_Food wrote:On December 14 2012 00:41 Hypemeup wrote:On December 14 2012 00:39 Sea_Food wrote:On December 14 2012 00:38 Hypemeup wrote:On December 14 2012 00:35 Sea_Food wrote:On December 14 2012 00:31 Golbat wrote:
What he did was totally justified. If you've ever seen black girls fight, you'd know they go apeshit once the punches start flying. It might have looked like excessive violence, but you can't see the girls on the ground after they go down, they might have still been coming at him.
Episodes like this sicken me because shit doesn't truly hit the fan until the man hits back, and then every uppity feminist in the place loses their mind. One of the biggest beefs I have with our society is the notion that men simply aren't allowed to hit women. One day people will understand that just because you have a vagina doesn't mean there's an invisible forcefield shielding you from the fists of men, and that you can't just hit them and expect no recourse
/rant Does not matter if it was a woman, a child, or a 250pound body builder. He was hitting people on the ground. With a weapon. In any civilized nation that man would have got at least 5 years in jail. But i guess this is america so money = human rights. There is no way for us to reasonably know if they were actually on the ground or in the process of trying to get up again. If the latter is true he was not at fault at all. Someone lying on the ground being hit with a metal pipes does not stay still to take the beating. Yeah defiantly deserves some more. You apparently do not understand what I meant. From the video available to us, there is no way for us to know if there were attacking his legs or trying to get up to go at him again, since we could not see them behind the counter. If we had the store cameras showing us a diffrent angle, you might have an argument. Well i know for a fact where i live the man would have got atleast some prison time for using a weapon just for the first hit, even if there was a threat for him. What you are supposed to do in that situation is walk out and call the cops. What an awesome idea, go out and call the cops while you are getting chased by 2 crazy black bitches who are probably either drunk or on drugs. Add to that the fact that he didn't know if they had knives or guns with them. Yeah sure, go out and call the cops, I'm sure you'll be fine by the time they arrive.
Evidently they had, in fact, been drinking:
"Before the mid-October night went horribly wrong, there was a dinner at Planet Hollywood. Then a trip to the Fat Black Pussycat bar. Five tequila shots later, the two women ended up at a McDonald’s in Greenwich Village, about to become Internet stars of the worst kind."
Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/12/nyregion/2-women-in-mcdonalds-fight-plead-not-guilty.html
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On December 14 2012 00:47 rEalGuapo wrote:Show nested quote +What you are supposed to do in that situation is walk out and call the cops. It's really hard to do that if they come from different angles with the only purpose to prevent that from happening though.. Did you not see the second woman taking the longer route because that is the way out of there?
go rewatch the video
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On December 14 2012 00:26 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 00:09 Talin wrote:On December 13 2012 23:57 Femari wrote:
Any talk about hitting people until they die is truly irrelevant, and even so it would be hard to get someone on killing someone in self defense when your body naturally reacts this way. It's not relevant to the situation at hand, but it's relevant to your point that you should make sure you're "safe". The moment he stopped hitting them, he was less safe than when he was still hitting them. I don't see why urges and instincts are something that should be some sort of an ultimate excuse. Humans have the capacity to control their urges and basic instincts and are expected to do so - people do that all the time in everyday life, and MOST manage do it in a fight (and this was barely even a "fight") or other potentially dangerous or tense situations. You're not somehow clear of all responsibility just because you're scared or angry. The law should be more favorable to you in these situations, sure, but not to the point where you can get away with anything (upwards to a straight up murder). I never said you should be able to get away with anything. I said you have the right to defend yourself when threatened. The moment he stopped hitting them he was just as safe because they were not making any motions that potentially would be a threat. When they did he was less safe and hit them again to maintain his own safety. He even told them to stay down. As for the controlling your instincts, unless you're trained or have experience you don't really have the ability to control it that well.
That's reasonable, however my argument is that when the attackers were on the ground, he was no longer being threatened to the point where he had to utilize potentially lethal force to keep the situation under control. Obviously there's a difference between being threatened and feeling threatened, but from the point that he got his attackers on the ground, on he should be fully responsible for how he handles the situation until the police arrives.
The two hits after the attackers were down were delivered very savagely, far too much so in order to be "warning hits", and he should definitely not be legally in the clear for how he behaved after the attackers were down. The attackers probably tried to get up to run away from a guy that was, for all they knew, about to crush their head with a metal bar the very next second.
tl;dr - I'm fine with using any means to defend yourself from the assault, but once you overcome the attackers you can't blindly and mindlessly react to a possibility of them having weapons, or superpowers, or whatnot.
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On December 14 2012 00:49 Sea_Food wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 00:47 rEalGuapo wrote:What you are supposed to do in that situation is walk out and call the cops. It's really hard to do that if they come from different angles with the only purpose to prevent that from happening though.. Did you not see the second woman taking the longer route because that is the way out of there? go rewatch the video
Looks a whole lot like the second girl tried to get a sick flank on him to me
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all you "civilized people" who would not have acted like him...what would you do? tell me? get beaten up? good job tards.
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On December 14 2012 00:45 Sea_Food wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 00:41 Hypemeup wrote:On December 14 2012 00:39 Sea_Food wrote:On December 14 2012 00:38 Hypemeup wrote:On December 14 2012 00:35 Sea_Food wrote:On December 14 2012 00:31 Golbat wrote:
What he did was totally justified. If you've ever seen black girls fight, you'd know they go apeshit once the punches start flying. It might have looked like excessive violence, but you can't see the girls on the ground after they go down, they might have still been coming at him.
Episodes like this sicken me because shit doesn't truly hit the fan until the man hits back, and then every uppity feminist in the place loses their mind. One of the biggest beefs I have with our society is the notion that men simply aren't allowed to hit women. One day people will understand that just because you have a vagina doesn't mean there's an invisible forcefield shielding you from the fists of men, and that you can't just hit them and expect no recourse
/rant Does not matter if it was a woman, a child, or a 250pound body builder. He was hitting people on the ground. With a weapon. In any civilized nation that man would have got at least 5 years in jail. But i guess this is america so money = human rights. There is no way for us to reasonably know if they were actually on the ground or in the process of trying to get up again. If the latter is true he was not at fault at all. Someone lying on the ground being hit with a metal pipes does not stay still to take the beating. Yeah defiantly deserves some more. You apparently do not understand what I meant. From the video available to us, there is no way for us to know if there were attacking his legs or trying to get up to go at him again, since we could not see them behind the counter. If we had the store cameras showing us a diffrent angle, you might have an argument. Well i know for a fact where i live the man would have got atleast some prison time for using a weapon just for the first hit, even if there was a threat for him. What you are supposed to do in that situation is walk out and call the cops.
Go read my post on previous page. That's in your country. (well they didnt use weapons but the attacker was bleeding anyway)
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On December 14 2012 00:42 fleeze wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 00:38 Spekulatius wrote:On December 14 2012 00:28 fleeze wrote:On December 14 2012 00:18 Spekulatius wrote:
I can't speak for the US of course but on the basis of German law, there's no discussion to be had.
1. State of assault
He was assaulted by another person. His life/health was in danger. Which gives him the right to
2. Use defensive measures
against the attacker by trying to stop his attack effectively and for a foreseeable future. He is permitted to hit them until they stop being a threat. Which, in that case, is until they stay down or get firmly held by bystanders/the police.
Hitting them with fists wouldn't have been equally effective. So he was allowed to use that kind of metal bar he was swinging.
There's no reason not to let him defend himself the way he did, seeing how the women tried to stand up with the intent of attacking him further.
That's what laws are for where I come from. Noone's fucking allowed to attack you for no valid reason. And if laws don't stop him/her from doing that, I will and I'm allowed to do so. seems like you live in a different germany than i do. violence even in self-defense gets punished by german courts. especially since in germany you NEVER expect people to wear guns/ be heavily armed even if they assault you. he wouldn't necessarily be sentenced to prison but he would get AT LEAST a fine on every german court. Common misconception, but flat out wrong. Just look at this recent case: A member of a gang shot a policeman through a door thinking his life was in danger (which it never was). He was acquitted on ANY charge. No fine, no nothing. LinkuThere's more, less extreme examples. I can dig them up if you like me to. one case, point proven. if you can't see the special case here i don't know. he's a GANG MEMBER. so maybe he expected other ARMED gang members to come after him. a very rare case in germany were a very low percentage of people are armed. it's not a misconception that german courts value "self-defence" very strict and punish excessive violence very often. edit: Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 00:39 rEalGuapo wrote:
Erm, ... No.
Self-defense is permitted. Google "Notwehr". yes, it is permitted. but german courts valuate "excessive" much more strict than other countrys. shooting someone in self-defence will get you to jail nearly every time (rare exceptions are cases like the above).
I don't know where you get your information.
Shooting someone in itself is fine when you're being assaulted and when shooting the attacker is the only possibility to stop the attack with certainty and for a longer duration.
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EPT
