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United States44012 Posts
On November 03 2017 03:54 ticklishmusic wrote:
the irs runs a program where trained volunteers will help you do your taxes, too. it's for middle and lower class and old people. they'll make sure you get all the basic stuff right.
as a single guy who basically only generates income from work my taxes take me an hour or so.
Turbotax, even if using the free version, isn't really doing them yourself. I'd be pretty impressed if you could do it on paper alone, especially in an hour. Shit like tracking IRA contribution basis is complex.
Software has made the whole process infinitely easier to the point that people with simple returns can do their own, but even then it's still garbage in garbage out. If you tell Turbotax the wrong thing it won't correct you.
But doing it old school forms only style, that's fucking hard, and I say that as an accountant.
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On November 03 2017 03:43 Velr wrote:
Out of interest, how hard is it to do your taxes in the US?
In switzerland, even if you own property, stocks and all that shit, it normally doesn't take over an hour. There are also no form xyz... (If you got your documents together)
And we think its to complicated...
I have degrees in accounting in finance and my hardest courses in college were my tax courses.
Even with all that I find it fucking ridiculous. There are seven thousand different forms and they are so overdone that its nearly impossible to tell what they are asking for. Its like the US government personified.
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On November 03 2017 04:07 Liquid`Drone wrote:
haha my taxes are done for me and there's never an issue. government gives me an email telling me they are ready, I go to the appropriate website, log on (every adult in Norway has a personal code device), take a quick 1 minute look at how much I'm getting refunded (or, a couple years, how much I had to pay extra. I normally try to pay too much deliberately because they give a handsome interest so it's actually a fairly decent way at saving money for the summer), and then I get money, or have to pay, a couple months later.
waitwaitwait wait stop everything. You get interest on your overpayments throughout the year?
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Norway28804 Posts
Yes. Norway has a benevolent and competent government and that's the kind of stuff you get then. 
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I have an accountant. She worked for the IRS in the past. Charges quite a bit but worth every penny because she knows the ins and outs of how to milk the most out of tax returns. Anyone whose taxes are nontrivial would be well served by getting help. A thousand tax tricks over time learned from someone who actually understands the convoluted crap that is our tax system adds up to real money.
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On November 03 2017 04:08 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2017 03:54 ticklishmusic wrote:
the irs runs a program where trained volunteers will help you do your taxes, too. it's for middle and lower class and old people. they'll make sure you get all the basic stuff right.
as a single guy who basically only generates income from work my taxes take me an hour or so. Turbotax, even if using the free version, isn't really doing them yourself. I'd be pretty impressed if you could do it on paper alone, especially in an hour. Shit like tracking IRA contribution basis is complex. Software has made the whole process infinitely easier to the point that people with simple returns can do their own, but even then it's still garbage in garbage out. If you tell Turbotax the wrong thing it won't correct you. But doing it old school forms only style, that's fucking hard, and I say that as an accountant.
I built an Excel workbook. It does all the math for me. It includes notes/links on what values I need to change each year. It also have a nice flow diagram that shows which forms I need.
If I get richer and start seeing capital gains/ other sources of income, I'll probably get a CPA friend to start doing my taxes. Right now getting a full-fledged CPA for right now feels a little like taking a bazooka for something that needs a paintball gun. But my system works pretty good for now.
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On November 03 2017 04:16 Liquid`Drone wrote:Yes. Norway has a benevolent and competent government and that's the kind of stuff you get then.
That must be nice
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On November 03 2017 04:21 Aveng3r wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2017 04:16 Liquid`Drone wrote:Yes. Norway has a benevolent and competent government and that's the kind of stuff you get then. That must be nice
Well it’s not so explicit in the US but you can usually get more money back if you pay more.
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On November 03 2017 04:23 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2017 04:21 Aveng3r wrote:On November 03 2017 04:16 Liquid`Drone wrote:Yes. Norway has a benevolent and competent government and that's the kind of stuff you get then. That must be nice Well it’s not so explicit in the US but you can usually get more money back if you pay more.
Yeah I know but you just get your principal back, no interest. Youre essentially giving the government an interest free loan which is bullshit
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On November 03 2017 04:25 Aveng3r wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2017 04:23 LegalLord wrote:On November 03 2017 04:21 Aveng3r wrote:On November 03 2017 04:16 Liquid`Drone wrote:Yes. Norway has a benevolent and competent government and that's the kind of stuff you get then. That must be nice Well it’s not so explicit in the US but you can usually get more money back if you pay more. Yeah I know but you just get your principal back, no interest. Youre essentially giving the government an interest free loan which is bullshit
I like to think of it as a February bonus than a tax free loan. Leave off the lower income for the year then have a crazy good time when the return comes in.
It's trump forcing me to balance a budget
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On November 03 2017 04:25 Aveng3r wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2017 04:23 LegalLord wrote:On November 03 2017 04:21 Aveng3r wrote:On November 03 2017 04:16 Liquid`Drone wrote:Yes. Norway has a benevolent and competent government and that's the kind of stuff you get then. That must be nice Well it’s not so explicit in the US but you can usually get more money back if you pay more. Yeah I know but you just get your principal back, no interest. Youre essentially giving the government an interest free loan which is bullshit
The government also doesn’t charge interest for underpaying taxes as long as you settle up at the end of the year. So it’s a wash.
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United States44012 Posts
On November 03 2017 04:19 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2017 04:08 KwarK wrote:On November 03 2017 03:54 ticklishmusic wrote:
the irs runs a program where trained volunteers will help you do your taxes, too. it's for middle and lower class and old people. they'll make sure you get all the basic stuff right.
as a single guy who basically only generates income from work my taxes take me an hour or so. Turbotax, even if using the free version, isn't really doing them yourself. I'd be pretty impressed if you could do it on paper alone, especially in an hour. Shit like tracking IRA contribution basis is complex. Software has made the whole process infinitely easier to the point that people with simple returns can do their own, but even then it's still garbage in garbage out. If you tell Turbotax the wrong thing it won't correct you. But doing it old school forms only style, that's fucking hard, and I say that as an accountant. I built an Excel workbook. It does all the math for me. It includes notes/links on what values I need to change each year. It also have a nice flow diagram that shows which forms I need. If I get richer and start seeing capital gains/ other sources of income, I'll probably get a CPA friend to start doing my taxes. But my system works pretty good for now.
I retract my doubts about whether you could do it by paper.
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On November 03 2017 04:19 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2017 04:08 KwarK wrote:On November 03 2017 03:54 ticklishmusic wrote:
the irs runs a program where trained volunteers will help you do your taxes, too. it's for middle and lower class and old people. they'll make sure you get all the basic stuff right.
as a single guy who basically only generates income from work my taxes take me an hour or so. Turbotax, even if using the free version, isn't really doing them yourself. I'd be pretty impressed if you could do it on paper alone, especially in an hour. Shit like tracking IRA contribution basis is complex. Software has made the whole process infinitely easier to the point that people with simple returns can do their own, but even then it's still garbage in garbage out. If you tell Turbotax the wrong thing it won't correct you. But doing it old school forms only style, that's fucking hard, and I say that as an accountant. I built an Excel workbook. It does all the math for me. It includes notes/links on what values I need to change each year. That's what my father does (he's a CPA). But in recent years he's been directing his children to use software instead since it's free lol
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On November 03 2017 04:28 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2017 04:25 Aveng3r wrote:On November 03 2017 04:23 LegalLord wrote:On November 03 2017 04:21 Aveng3r wrote:On November 03 2017 04:16 Liquid`Drone wrote:Yes. Norway has a benevolent and competent government and that's the kind of stuff you get then. That must be nice Well it’s not so explicit in the US but you can usually get more money back if you pay more. Yeah I know but you just get your principal back, no interest. Youre essentially giving the government an interest free loan which is bullshit The government also doesn’t charge interest for underpaying taxes as long as you settle up at the end of the year. So it’s a wash.
My stance would be that they can have what theyre owed when theyre owed it and not a second sooner, and if youre going to have a system where you receive payments throughout the year, then act like a damn reasonable financial institution and pay your constituents interest on their principal overpayments.
I hesitate to call it a wash there because theyre benefiting off of taxpayer overpayments while offering nothing in return. Not charging interest on payments outstanding pre- due-date isnt really a favor to anyone.
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On November 03 2017 04:28 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2017 04:25 Aveng3r wrote:On November 03 2017 04:23 LegalLord wrote:On November 03 2017 04:21 Aveng3r wrote:On November 03 2017 04:16 Liquid`Drone wrote:Yes. Norway has a benevolent and competent government and that's the kind of stuff you get then. That must be nice Well it’s not so explicit in the US but you can usually get more money back if you pay more. Yeah I know but you just get your principal back, no interest. Youre essentially giving the government an interest free loan which is bullshit The government also doesn’t charge interest for underpaying taxes as long as you settle up at the end of the year. So it’s a wash.
that’s not quite the same. you loan the IRS the money until tax day in an effort to not be slammed with a $5k bill on april 15.
if i chose not to pay all year and paid my invoice on april 15, they didn’t loan me any money.
unless you mean i have until the end of next year, which just puts me in a different argument of ‘not penalizing delinquent accounts isn’t the same..’
long story short i suddenly want some interest. would i have to pay taxes on that too? fuckin paperwork man.
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I can't imagine how my time invested in building my own Excel workbook (I'd probably build it in R/Python as that's what I use in my job but that's irrelevant) to do my taxes wouldn't be worth more than the $35-$60 I pay for TurboTax annually. How does your CPA dad figure that? Or is he doing it to kill time?
On-topic, My marginal rate would go from 28% to 35% so the plan isn't my favorite, but it's worth it to fix the broken corporate tax system.
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On November 03 2017 04:21 Aveng3r wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2017 04:16 Liquid`Drone wrote:Yes. Norway has a benevolent and competent government and that's the kind of stuff you get then. That must be nice
In switzerland we get a taxbill early in the year and the sooner you pay the more you safe. Its not much but atleast its something.
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United States44012 Posts
To give an example of weird IRS maths, the IRS wants you to tell them your gambling winnings. Not winnings net of losses, just winnings. Then later on they ask you your losses on the Schedule A. You can only net within a session. That means a family with a $10k winning session and a $20k losing session can't deduct the losing session without forfeiting the standard deduction. They lost $10k but have to pay tax on $10k of winnings. And that's just two sessions, the IRS expect you to record every session. Poker nights each week could easily be a hundred sessions.
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personally, i'm a nerd and i find doing things in excel fun. though i never played EVE seriously like kwark, that's a little too much for me. 
put it this way for cost - i built my workbook once. it took a few hours (excel monkey contractor rates are ~$50/hr, so under $200 if you want to slap a dollar amount on it), but it's got all the details i'll need for doing my taxes. i will only stop using it if i end up getting rich and hiring a CPA, or if i die or something. definitely worth it.
doing things ye olde fashioned way by paper would be hard for me. my basic arithmetic sucks ass.
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Kwark playing eve isn't playing. Its exploiting people that actually play harder than the british empire ever did.
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EPT
