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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14220 Posts
I really couldn't give less of a shit about the protests. Its a protest and they're protesting. They're not effecting the actual game and I don't think that they'd effect the game because they're respectable professionals. That being said I don't think kaps being blackballed for sportsball reasons that I don't think I can have a rational discussion with GH with. Baseball is half central american's and is pretty popular outside of the US (and that one Canada team). | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24505 Posts
On October 08 2017 09:34 Sermokala wrote: I'm emotionally invested in the vikings and twins but I only follow them secondhand. college football I like a lot more. I'm about as emotionally invested in the vikings and twins as I am CLG in lol or TL back in the sc2 hayday. I like the feels I really couldn't give less of a shit about the protests. Its a protest and they're protesting. They're not effecting the actual game and I don't think that they'd effect the game because they're respectable professionals. That being said I don't think kaps being blackballed for sportsball reasons that I don't think I can have a rational discussion with GH with. Baseball is half central american's and is pretty popular outside of the US (and that one Canada team). I'm not as unreasonable as you might imagine on the blackballed thing. I understand that bringing him into a locker room would be disruptive for most teams. He's better than several current starting QB's, but not so much better that I'd expect most teams to bother with, regardless of how they feel about the protests as an organization. Every team has important members that would throw a fit if Kaep was signed for a variety of reasons. That said I say blackballed because rather than be better teams/people they'd rather just not even consider signing him. But I'd be fine with just saying "the NFL's treatment of Kaep" to make the same point. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14220 Posts
On October 08 2017 09:43 GreenHorizons wrote: I'm not as unreasonable as you might imagine on the blackballed thing. I understand that bringing him into a locker room would be disruptive for most teams. He's better than several current starting QB's, but not so much better that I'd expect most teams to bother with, regardless of how they feel about the protests as an organization. Every team has important members that would throw a fit if Kaep was signed for a variety of reasons. That said I say blackballed because rather than be better teams/people they'd rather just not even consider signing him. But I'd be fine with just saying "the NFL's treatment of Kaep" to make the same point. I'm okay with everyones shitting on the NFL for this at the same time due to its acceptance of domestic abusers. If you punch your pregnant girlfriend in the belly because you just found out shes pregnant you should never be allowed to play another team game again. But thats so crazy the NFL couldn't just cover that up and not comment on it ever right? I'm admiting I was wrong btw. | ||
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radscorpion9
Canada2252 Posts
On October 08 2017 05:46 Danglars wrote: Don't measure the NFL in terms of viewership or approval ratings. Instead, look at how the nation's movers and shakers respond to their clear support for their player's right to protest however they want whenever they want. It had nearly unanimous approval of experts, policymakers, and cultural critics in this nation's power centers. They've taken the sound, high road and if the country can't come around, it simply proves the racist attitude of this nation. It's time Americans weren't able to watch sports as a break to the outright killings and civil rights violations of people of color. Like MLK and abolitionists of the past, white supremacists were made to pay the price for their indifference. Now, the second civil rights era begins in earnest as institutions which aren't transparently white-biased suffer a decline as racists turn off their sets and hide. If you think its wrong to enjoy a game of football, and take a break from the world, then in principle it is wrong to take a break enjoying *any* form of entertainment, including the twitch streams you probably enjoy yourself. Maybe its just me but I think that's kind of extreme. Not only would nothing be accomplished, but it would probably lead to a mass mental breakdown (that is, if anyone took it seriously to begin with). Secondly, awareness can only do so much, at the end of the day it requires dedicated expertise at the highest levels of government. That is why people elect politicians to these positions; so that a farmer doesn't have to be concerned with macroeconomic policy; he can trust that his or her elected representatives to manage healthcare, the environment, and so on. Forcing millions of football fans to commiserate with protesters really does not accomplish that much, except to maybe put pressure on politicians that already existed to begin with. Also I don't know if you considered this, but most people who watch sports tend to have very strong nationalistic sentiments, and simply dislike seeing the flag (or country) disrespected. A lot of conservatives tend to have this view; that even if there are problems in the country, you should still respect the flag and the government. They also strongly associated that feeling with memories of relatives and friends who died to protect it. Classifying any number of these people who turn off their TVs as racists seems a tad extreme. | ||
KwarK
United States44440 Posts
On October 08 2017 10:30 radscorpion9 wrote: If you think its wrong to enjoy a game of football, and take a break from the world, then in principle it is wrong to take a break enjoying *any* form of entertainment, including the twitch streams you probably enjoy yourself. Maybe its just me but I think that's kind of extreme. Not only would nothing be accomplished, but it would probably lead to a mass mental breakdown (that is, if anyone took it seriously to begin with). Secondly, awareness can only do so much, at the end of the day it requires dedicated expertise at the highest levels of government. That is why people elect politicians to these positions; so that a farmer doesn't have to be concerned with macroeconomic policy; he can trust that his or her elected representatives to manage healthcare, the environment, and so on. Forcing millions of football fans to commiserate with protesters really does not accomplish that much, except to maybe put pressure on politicians that already existed to begin with. Also I don't know if you considered this, but most people who watch sports tend to have very strong nationalistic sentiments, and simply dislike seeing the flag (or country) disrespected. A lot of conservatives tend to have this view; that even if there are problems in the country, you should still respect the flag and the government. They also strongly associated that feeling with memories of relatives and friends who died to protect it. Classifying any number of these people who turn off their TVs as racists seems a tad extreme. yeah Danglars! But on a serious note, how the fuck is kneeling disrespectful towards veterans? | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33723 Posts
It is both non-disruptive and non-violent (in contrast to several other recent protests), yet clearly impactful and the fact that people seemingly can't ignore it seems like a 'feature, not a bug', to me. What would you have them do - sign a petition on whitehouse.gov? If they felt their voices and concerns were being heard through conventional channels then there would be no need for a protest in the first place. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On October 08 2017 11:03 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I really want to know what is an acceptable venue of protest if this isn't it. It is both non-disruptive and non-violent (in contrast to several other recent protests), yet clearly impactful and the fact that people seemingly can't ignore it seems like a 'feature, not a bug', to me. What would you have them do - sign a petition on whitehouse.gov? If they felt their voices and concerns were being heard through conventional channels then there would be no need for a protest in the first place. There is no place that will be acceptable because it forces those people to either come to grips with, or recognize, truths that they are uncomfortable hearing/seeing. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On October 08 2017 11:03 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I really want to know what is an acceptable venue of protest if this isn't it. It is both non-disruptive and non-violent (in contrast to several other recent protests), yet clearly impactful and the fact that people seemingly can't ignore it seems like a 'feature, not a bug', to me. What would you have them do - sign a petition on whitehouse.gov? If they felt their voices and concerns were being heard through conventional channels then there would be no need for a protest in the first place. There is no acceptable venue, that is the point of all the complaining. Blacks when protest when white people are ready to engage with racism. Which is never. | ||
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IgnE
United States7684 Posts
On October 08 2017 05:26 xDaunt wrote: As predicted.... Source. And it's affecting ticket prices as well: Source. We should look forward to the end of America's favorite gladiatorial spectacle. Countless brains will be saved, from peewee league up through college. And fuck the fantasy gambling boom the last 2-3 years. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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mierin
United States4946 Posts
On October 08 2017 05:45 Artisreal wrote: I wager players take a wage cut over not being treated equally to whites. This would be very interesting. Sacrificing something concrete instead of just making a metaphorical gesture might be nice. Not even a wage cut--just a pledged % of wages going to racial equality driven causes (whatever they may be). If one subgroup of the population could afford to give to charity, it'd be professional athletes. It'd honestly probably make white and other athletes want to do the same, and maybe some actual real good would come out of it. | ||
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IgnE
United States7684 Posts
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mierin
United States4946 Posts
On October 08 2017 12:59 IgnE wrote: The large majority of NFL players don't make that much money. They are the worst paid professional sports athletes among the major American sports. Most play for only a handful of years. And then they are saddled with brain damage, aching bodies, and few marketable skills. I certainly don't envy them. Quite true. I'm just trying to focus on how to /actually/ do something, as opposed to "discussing" things (which is simply not enough to solve present day racial problems). Edit: It seems like "discussion" plays right into the hands of the people in power. They can twist it in to anything they want to convince their base that it's ridiculous, unwarranted etc. Maybe we actually need to have some sort of civil war to solve this...not joking at all, sometimes to fix something you have to burn it down and build something new over the ashes. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States24505 Posts
On October 08 2017 12:06 Plansix wrote: Ah yes, white activists with torches. https://twitter.com/NBC29/status/916814113921171456 Just waiting for the "White Activists Offer Solution for America's Problems: Final" headline. But I'm sure there were some "very nice people" there imitating the KKK. Remember, shrouding statues is the slippery slope we should be focused on | ||
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Leporello
United States2845 Posts
"only one thing will work", he says to the world. But not really saying it. Tweeting it. He wouldn't say those words. "Only one thing will work", work to do what? Was there some national discussion that I missed? As with Iraq (and what was once common-sense) waging a war doesn't prevent the use of WMDs (unless they're imaginary). And we're all watching this. We're watching a man, acting as President, behave in one way here, another there, and then get into his internet-troll attire and annihilate the important pretenses he just finished creating. Being President is all about PR, projecting the right image by meeting the right people and saying the right carefully-planned things. A bad Facebook post or a drunken rant can destroy a lot of hard-established credibility. But more than just bad PR, he is using Twitter, and the internet-troll persona, to make fraudulent claims that norms wouldn't allow him to make. A prime previous example is when he tweeted he "may" have audio-recorded the ex-director of the FBI in their private meetings. Now, he didn't go out on camera and say he "may" have those tapes. He tweeted it. The internet-troll version of Trump said he "may" have those tapes. And then the actual President, and the real world, has to respond. So, eventually, hounded by the Fake News, he diarrheas some mangled half-sentences of something self-pitying, the Fake News acknowledges the President is a giant fucking child-like liar, and we all gasp at the buffoonery of it all. But the ex-director of the FBI isn't going to destroy trade-deals, or actively work against your country's interest. He isn't going to nuke America. So while Trump's pathetic internet-troll shit might just be embarrassing at times, real consequences loom for us all. So I just wanted to tell you guys, in case some of you didn't know: this is straight-up psychotic, for the President, who has not engaged verbally with the public at all about what he actually wants or proposes to do, to then engage the cultural world, on Twitter, making obscure comments and insults, on his own personal accord, about matters of mass-death and destruction. For the President of the United States to be this constantly two-faced and crazy: this is terrorism, and all of humanity is the victim. This is the most offensive, stereotyping, comic-cartoon's caricature of a Russian politician. Orwellian to the extreme. Everyday we're watching the most obvious sexist decry sexism, the most obvious racist deny racism, the most obvious war-monger crying about the "only thing". It's the ONLY THING. He exhausted all other options! | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On October 08 2017 17:26 GreenHorizons wrote: Just waiting for the "White Activists Offer Solution for America's Problems: Final" headline. But I'm sure there were some "very nice people" there imitating the KKK. I'm sure they have a few modest proposals. | ||
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FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Netherlands30548 Posts
On October 08 2017 08:21 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: He must really feel powerful leaving everyone hanging like this. I can see him being so happy that everyone wants to hear what he means. Probably feels like it projects strength to make the media and the public 'need' him. War at his fingertips. Everyday he gets his folder of carefully selected 'good Trump news' on his desk, and he only watches Fox praise him. The occasional criticism that comes through makes him furious and he'll tweet some angry thing, who are they to criticize/go against him? All fake low rating nobodies that hate their country, they don't know what's good for them. No, Trump cannot do wrong. He truly doesn't realize what a mockery he's making of the job and that his words are supposed to carry meaning and impact. That he should listen to advisers from the state department, not go against them. That he's supposed to serve the public. This game of 'you'll see' on a topic that could kill many thousands of people is just disgusting. | ||
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sc-darkness
856 Posts
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pmh
1416 Posts
The only thing that will work obviously is to remove kim from power,which is not acceptable to china and that kinda is the end of it. Its a stalemate in which the usa can not do anything unless china agrees. They would have to confront or make a deal with china for which the options are very limited. There is no alternative for kim that is acceptable to china I think. | ||
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