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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On September 20 2017 06:58 LegalLord wrote:
More money spent on the military puts more money into the hands of the people who work on important advanced research projects - which includes those who work from the hallowed halls of academia.
More money into education generally leads to construction of endless university infrastructure projects, real estate of little worth, dorms for exorbitant prices, and so on. There is not a lack of money being spent on education, just a lack of proportionate results.
Healthcare is similar.
Infrastructure lol.
Two of the above three problems could adequately be solved with communism.
Your lack of understanding of the military is astounding. I cannot possibly understand how you came to such a naive conclusion.
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On September 20 2017 07:06 Nevuk wrote:
It's no secret that a lot of the alt right 16-24 year old shit bags overlaps with /r/incels. I never thought they'd come out and say it, though.
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So, as someone who went on a date with a very nice girl but then made an offhand joke about Hurricane Jose and a border wall which caused offense, I think political affiliation/ compatibility is proooobably a good thing to clear up beforehand.
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On September 20 2017 07:08 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2017 06:58 LegalLord wrote:
More money spent on the military puts more money into the hands of the people who work on important advanced research projects - which includes those who work from the hallowed halls of academia.
More money into education generally leads to construction of endless university infrastructure projects, real estate of little worth, dorms for exorbitant prices, and so on. There is not a lack of money being spent on education, just a lack of proportionate results.
Healthcare is similar.
Infrastructure lol.
Two of the above three problems could adequately be solved with communism. I disagree with how you look at where the money goes in education. If you give schools an extra X dollars your entirely correct but when your removing tuition fees to lower the barrier of entry for education your not adding more money, your replacing one source with another. And the government has better control over the cost then currently where schools can just keep raising tuition fees to feed off government aid since the school will not longer get to set the rate.
We spend more than enough money in education in the US. The problem is that much of it is spent on stuff not at all related to schooling. For example, are you familiar with the scam that is for-profit education?
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On September 20 2017 06:58 LegalLord wrote:
More money spent on the military puts more money into the hands of the people who work on important advanced research projects - which includes those who work from the hallowed halls of academia.
More money into education generally leads to construction of endless university infrastructure projects, real estate of little worth, dorms for exorbitant prices, and so on. There is not a lack of money being spent on education, just a lack of proportionate results.
Healthcare is similar.
Infrastructure lol.
Two of the above three problems could adequately be solved with communism.
I am pretty sure most of the money doesn't go to advanced research. Otherwise we should ave already had laser equipped dolphins and/or sharks.
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On September 20 2017 07:34 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2017 06:58 LegalLord wrote:
More money spent on the military puts more money into the hands of the people who work on important advanced research projects - which includes those who work from the hallowed halls of academia.
More money into education generally leads to construction of endless university infrastructure projects, real estate of little worth, dorms for exorbitant prices, and so on. There is not a lack of money being spent on education, just a lack of proportionate results.
Healthcare is similar.
Infrastructure lol.
Two of the above three problems could adequately be solved with communism. I am pretty sure most of the money doesn't go to advanced research. Otherwise we should ave already had laser equipped dolphins and/or sharks.
Nowhere near all of it of course, but definitely enough to matter. I don't disagree that a lot of it goes into stuff that is pointless to build. But a hefty budget is definitely a good thing for sonic dolphins and mind controlled giant squids.
We live in a country where throwing around money on expensive engineering projects is 40x more acceptable if it's for the military than for civilian purposes.
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On September 20 2017 07:34 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2017 07:08 Gorsameth wrote:On September 20 2017 06:58 LegalLord wrote:
More money spent on the military puts more money into the hands of the people who work on important advanced research projects - which includes those who work from the hallowed halls of academia.
More money into education generally leads to construction of endless university infrastructure projects, real estate of little worth, dorms for exorbitant prices, and so on. There is not a lack of money being spent on education, just a lack of proportionate results.
Healthcare is similar.
Infrastructure lol.
Two of the above three problems could adequately be solved with communism. I disagree with how you look at where the money goes in education. If you give schools an extra X dollars your entirely correct but when your removing tuition fees to lower the barrier of entry for education your not adding more money, your replacing one source with another. And the government has better control over the cost then currently where schools can just keep raising tuition fees to feed off government aid since the school will not longer get to set the rate. We spend more than enough money in education in the US. The problem is that much of it is spent on stuff not at all related to schooling. For example, are you familiar with the scam that is for-profit education?
We don't spend nearly enough money in education. Have you heard of inner city schools going without textbooks and chairs or teachers not being paid the adequate wage? Or what about teachers buying their own supplies? Have you heard of the facilities that are aged and not adequate for teaching?
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On September 20 2017 07:36 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2017 07:34 LegalLord wrote:On September 20 2017 07:08 Gorsameth wrote:On September 20 2017 06:58 LegalLord wrote:
More money spent on the military puts more money into the hands of the people who work on important advanced research projects - which includes those who work from the hallowed halls of academia.
More money into education generally leads to construction of endless university infrastructure projects, real estate of little worth, dorms for exorbitant prices, and so on. There is not a lack of money being spent on education, just a lack of proportionate results.
Healthcare is similar.
Infrastructure lol.
Two of the above three problems could adequately be solved with communism. I disagree with how you look at where the money goes in education. If you give schools an extra X dollars your entirely correct but when your removing tuition fees to lower the barrier of entry for education your not adding more money, your replacing one source with another. And the government has better control over the cost then currently where schools can just keep raising tuition fees to feed off government aid since the school will not longer get to set the rate. We spend more than enough money in education in the US. The problem is that much of it is spent on stuff not at all related to schooling. For example, are you familiar with the scam that is for-profit education? We don't spend nearly enough money in education. Have you heard of inner city schools going without textbooks and chairs or teachers not being paid the adequate wage? Or what about teachers buying their own supplies? Have you heard of the facilities that are aged and not adequate for teaching?
Do you think more money would solve that problem? Or is that more of a problem of inadequate routing of relatively small quantities of money?
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Trump delivered a good speech in the UN against the dictatorship in Venezuela. 10k infants died there in 2016 alone. Almost 1k mothers died shortly after delivering birth too. In 2017 things got worse.
Trump could be the difference maker in this situation. Goldman Sachs gave the regimé a big help by financing some of their debt few months ago, if they hadn't Maduro could've went down at the peak of the protests. So he can make things change quickly.
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On September 20 2017 07:35 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2017 07:34 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On September 20 2017 06:58 LegalLord wrote:
More money spent on the military puts more money into the hands of the people who work on important advanced research projects - which includes those who work from the hallowed halls of academia.
More money into education generally leads to construction of endless university infrastructure projects, real estate of little worth, dorms for exorbitant prices, and so on. There is not a lack of money being spent on education, just a lack of proportionate results.
Healthcare is similar.
Infrastructure lol.
Two of the above three problems could adequately be solved with communism. I am pretty sure most of the money doesn't go to advanced research. Otherwise we should ave already had laser equipped dolphins and/or sharks. Nowhere near all of it of course, but definitely enough to matter. I don't disagree that a lot of it goes into stuff that is pointless to build. But a hefty budget is definitely a good thing for sonic dolphins and mind controlled giant squids. We live in a country where throwing around money on expensive engineering projects is 40x more acceptable if it's for the military than for civilian purposes.
Your last point is what we are against. We understand the need to outspend, but not the amount we have been doing. A lot of money goes to the countries we are based out of, transporting troops and materiel, and paying the DoD employees that make it all run. But there is still a lot being wasted on things that will never see the light of day, among other black listed activities.
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On September 20 2017 07:34 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2017 07:08 Gorsameth wrote:On September 20 2017 06:58 LegalLord wrote:
More money spent on the military puts more money into the hands of the people who work on important advanced research projects - which includes those who work from the hallowed halls of academia.
More money into education generally leads to construction of endless university infrastructure projects, real estate of little worth, dorms for exorbitant prices, and so on. There is not a lack of money being spent on education, just a lack of proportionate results.
Healthcare is similar.
Infrastructure lol.
Two of the above three problems could adequately be solved with communism. I disagree with how you look at where the money goes in education. If you give schools an extra X dollars your entirely correct but when your removing tuition fees to lower the barrier of entry for education your not adding more money, your replacing one source with another. And the government has better control over the cost then currently where schools can just keep raising tuition fees to feed off government aid since the school will not longer get to set the rate. We spend more than enough money in education in the US. The problem is that much of it is spent on stuff not at all related to schooling. For example, are you familiar with the scam that is for-profit education?
Again your talking about something completely different. This conversation was about spending the 80 billion for the military on something else, like removing tuition fees from colleges. That has nothing to do with the way money is spend in the US education system (which is indeed bad).
Its not about giving schools more money. Its about allowing poor people to not worry about the cost of education so they can try to get out of poverty trap.
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On September 20 2017 07:39 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2017 07:35 LegalLord wrote:On September 20 2017 07:34 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On September 20 2017 06:58 LegalLord wrote:
More money spent on the military puts more money into the hands of the people who work on important advanced research projects - which includes those who work from the hallowed halls of academia.
More money into education generally leads to construction of endless university infrastructure projects, real estate of little worth, dorms for exorbitant prices, and so on. There is not a lack of money being spent on education, just a lack of proportionate results.
Healthcare is similar.
Infrastructure lol.
Two of the above three problems could adequately be solved with communism. I am pretty sure most of the money doesn't go to advanced research. Otherwise we should ave already had laser equipped dolphins and/or sharks. Nowhere near all of it of course, but definitely enough to matter. I don't disagree that a lot of it goes into stuff that is pointless to build. But a hefty budget is definitely a good thing for sonic dolphins and mind controlled giant squids. We live in a country where throwing around money on expensive engineering projects is 40x more acceptable if it's for the military than for civilian purposes. Your last point is what we are against. We understand the need to outspend, but not the amount we have been doing. A lot of money goes to the countries we are based out of, transporting troops and materiel, and paying the DoD employees that make it all run. But there is still a lot being wasted on things that will never see the light of day, among other black listed activities.
That I don't disagree with. But I know my own projects, among other advanced engineering work, tends to get better funded when the military isn't losing its shit over budget cuts. If there's a better way to deal with it that would be a lot better. Unless you could figure it out, though, it seems we are at something of a standstill.
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Pretty clickbait title, but a thought-provoking story. The Washington Post already filed a story in protest.
I've seen his perspective validated in my own observations as well. The media likes talking about filters on news, and here's what should be the "ultimate filter" of sorts. But read the article first if you want to really understand his logic and debate the topic.
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On September 20 2017 07:42 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2017 07:34 LegalLord wrote:On September 20 2017 07:08 Gorsameth wrote:On September 20 2017 06:58 LegalLord wrote:
More money spent on the military puts more money into the hands of the people who work on important advanced research projects - which includes those who work from the hallowed halls of academia.
More money into education generally leads to construction of endless university infrastructure projects, real estate of little worth, dorms for exorbitant prices, and so on. There is not a lack of money being spent on education, just a lack of proportionate results.
Healthcare is similar.
Infrastructure lol.
Two of the above three problems could adequately be solved with communism. I disagree with how you look at where the money goes in education. If you give schools an extra X dollars your entirely correct but when your removing tuition fees to lower the barrier of entry for education your not adding more money, your replacing one source with another. And the government has better control over the cost then currently where schools can just keep raising tuition fees to feed off government aid since the school will not longer get to set the rate. We spend more than enough money in education in the US. The problem is that much of it is spent on stuff not at all related to schooling. For example, are you familiar with the scam that is for-profit education? Again your talking about something completely different. This conversation was about spending the 80 billion for the military on something else, like removing tuition fees from colleges. That has nothing to do with the way money is spend in the US education system (which is indeed bad). Its not about giving schools more money. Its about allowing poor people to not worry about the cost of education so they can try to get out of poverty trap.
That's something of a false dichotomy. The government already covers a fairly hefty fraction of tuition, and in a sane country that money alone would be sufficient to pay tuition for students. But the incentives are such that increasing tuition is encouraged to soak up more money not really relevant to the main task. Enough money is being allotted, it's just not being spent well. We don't need to pull $80b to education, we can just spend it elsewhere and get better education results by better use of the funds already available. Specifically, spending on better education in underprivileged areas would have a large positive effect and wouldn't even be that expensive.
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On September 20 2017 07:44 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2017 07:39 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On September 20 2017 07:35 LegalLord wrote:On September 20 2017 07:34 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On September 20 2017 06:58 LegalLord wrote:
More money spent on the military puts more money into the hands of the people who work on important advanced research projects - which includes those who work from the hallowed halls of academia.
More money into education generally leads to construction of endless university infrastructure projects, real estate of little worth, dorms for exorbitant prices, and so on. There is not a lack of money being spent on education, just a lack of proportionate results.
Healthcare is similar.
Infrastructure lol.
Two of the above three problems could adequately be solved with communism. I am pretty sure most of the money doesn't go to advanced research. Otherwise we should ave already had laser equipped dolphins and/or sharks. Nowhere near all of it of course, but definitely enough to matter. I don't disagree that a lot of it goes into stuff that is pointless to build. But a hefty budget is definitely a good thing for sonic dolphins and mind controlled giant squids. We live in a country where throwing around money on expensive engineering projects is 40x more acceptable if it's for the military than for civilian purposes. Your last point is what we are against. We understand the need to outspend, but not the amount we have been doing. A lot of money goes to the countries we are based out of, transporting troops and materiel, and paying the DoD employees that make it all run. But there is still a lot being wasted on things that will never see the light of day, among other black listed activities. That I don't disagree with. But I know my own projects, among other advanced engineering work, tends to get better funded when the military isn't losing its shit over budget cuts. If there's a better way to deal with it that would be a lot better. Unless you could figure it out, though, it seems we are at something of a standstill.
The military will always be funded. Worrying that it will not is playing chicken little. The only thing to fear is a government shutdown. Other than that, you'l get your research funding. It doesn't take an $80bn increase to the military to make sure you get your funding. It's already there. The onus is on the DoD to keep better books.
The thing is to stop funding higher education altogether except public schools/CCs. For profit or Private schools don't need aid. They'll get their money if they're up to snuff and competitive enough. K-12 is the area that needs to be severely improved if we are to make any progress whatsoever. That is the foundation upon which a child's future is built upon. If you start them off on a shaky foundation, it is inevitable that it will crumble or they will be stuck because access to higher is no longer available. If you make them smarter going in, then they should be prepared for higher education.
Spending money on education and infrastructure should be priority. HC is secondary to those efforts. Increasing military budgets is a distant third, if you want a better, productive society.
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Conservatives are just as picky judging from my experience and parents of conservatives can be pretty intolerant of their children dating someone not "like them" outside of just political leaning.
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On September 20 2017 07:47 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2017 07:42 Gorsameth wrote:On September 20 2017 07:34 LegalLord wrote:On September 20 2017 07:08 Gorsameth wrote:On September 20 2017 06:58 LegalLord wrote:
More money spent on the military puts more money into the hands of the people who work on important advanced research projects - which includes those who work from the hallowed halls of academia.
More money into education generally leads to construction of endless university infrastructure projects, real estate of little worth, dorms for exorbitant prices, and so on. There is not a lack of money being spent on education, just a lack of proportionate results.
Healthcare is similar.
Infrastructure lol.
Two of the above three problems could adequately be solved with communism. I disagree with how you look at where the money goes in education. If you give schools an extra X dollars your entirely correct but when your removing tuition fees to lower the barrier of entry for education your not adding more money, your replacing one source with another. And the government has better control over the cost then currently where schools can just keep raising tuition fees to feed off government aid since the school will not longer get to set the rate. We spend more than enough money in education in the US. The problem is that much of it is spent on stuff not at all related to schooling. For example, are you familiar with the scam that is for-profit education? Again your talking about something completely different. This conversation was about spending the 80 billion for the military on something else, like removing tuition fees from colleges. That has nothing to do with the way money is spend in the US education system (which is indeed bad). Its not about giving schools more money. Its about allowing poor people to not worry about the cost of education so they can try to get out of poverty trap. That's something of a false dichotomy. The government already covers a fairly hefty fraction of tuition, and in a sane country that money alone would be sufficient to pay tuition for students. But the incentives are such that increasing tuition is encouraged to soak up more money not really relevant to the main task. Enough money is being allotted, it's just not being spent well. We don't need to pull $80b to education, we can just spend it elsewhere and get better education results by better use of the funds already available. Specifically, spending on better education in underprivileged areas would have a large positive effect and wouldn't even be that expensive.
Again your not getting it.
This would be the government saying 'you get X per student and you can't charge them, make it work'.
There is no increasing the money going in.
Yes there are other ways to Education sector could spend its money, yes it could lower tuition rates and be perfectly fine. We aren't talking about that. The story was about money that was said not to exist for lowering the barrier of education while the military got billions they didn't even ask for.
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I'd like to make some publicity for ForeverJameses, who is doing great work as far as I can tell. His first video is less relevant to this thread cause the Bell Curve hasn't been discussed a ton here, but he just published something about cultural marxism and that has some relevance to some of our discussions.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On September 20 2017 07:53 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2017 07:44 LegalLord wrote:On September 20 2017 07:39 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On September 20 2017 07:35 LegalLord wrote:On September 20 2017 07:34 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On September 20 2017 06:58 LegalLord wrote:
More money spent on the military puts more money into the hands of the people who work on important advanced research projects - which includes those who work from the hallowed halls of academia.
More money into education generally leads to construction of endless university infrastructure projects, real estate of little worth, dorms for exorbitant prices, and so on. There is not a lack of money being spent on education, just a lack of proportionate results.
Healthcare is similar.
Infrastructure lol.
Two of the above three problems could adequately be solved with communism. I am pretty sure most of the money doesn't go to advanced research. Otherwise we should ave already had laser equipped dolphins and/or sharks. Nowhere near all of it of course, but definitely enough to matter. I don't disagree that a lot of it goes into stuff that is pointless to build. But a hefty budget is definitely a good thing for sonic dolphins and mind controlled giant squids. We live in a country where throwing around money on expensive engineering projects is 40x more acceptable if it's for the military than for civilian purposes. Your last point is what we are against. We understand the need to outspend, but not the amount we have been doing. A lot of money goes to the countries we are based out of, transporting troops and materiel, and paying the DoD employees that make it all run. But there is still a lot being wasted on things that will never see the light of day, among other black listed activities. That I don't disagree with. But I know my own projects, among other advanced engineering work, tends to get better funded when the military isn't losing its shit over budget cuts. If there's a better way to deal with it that would be a lot better. Unless you could figure it out, though, it seems we are at something of a standstill. The thing is to stop funding higher education altogether except public schools/CCs. For profit or Private schools don't need aid. They'll get their money if they're up to snuff and competitive enough. K-12 is the area that needs to be severely improved if we are to make any progress whatsoever. That is the foundation upon which a child's future is built upon. If you start them off on a shaky foundation, it is inevitable that it will crumble or they will be stuck because access to higher is no longer available. If you make them smarter going in, then they should be prepared for higher education.
This I pretty much all agree with.
On September 20 2017 07:53 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
Spending money on education and infrastructure should be priority. HC is secondary to those efforts.
This I think is a little dubious. Why does healthcare rank lower? It's a necessity for stability that all citizens can get the healthcare they need, that they have what they need to stay in good health, and that it never breaks the bank. I know too many people for whom bad things happened from lack of money for healthcare and it wouldn't have even been that expensive to treat them if they had taken preventative testing more seriously (which is cheap for the govt to cover, but expensive enough that most people think twice about going to the doctor).
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On September 20 2017 07:56 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2017 07:47 LegalLord wrote:On September 20 2017 07:42 Gorsameth wrote:On September 20 2017 07:34 LegalLord wrote:On September 20 2017 07:08 Gorsameth wrote:On September 20 2017 06:58 LegalLord wrote:
More money spent on the military puts more money into the hands of the people who work on important advanced research projects - which includes those who work from the hallowed halls of academia.
More money into education generally leads to construction of endless university infrastructure projects, real estate of little worth, dorms for exorbitant prices, and so on. There is not a lack of money being spent on education, just a lack of proportionate results.
Healthcare is similar.
Infrastructure lol.
Two of the above three problems could adequately be solved with communism. I disagree with how you look at where the money goes in education. If you give schools an extra X dollars your entirely correct but when your removing tuition fees to lower the barrier of entry for education your not adding more money, your replacing one source with another. And the government has better control over the cost then currently where schools can just keep raising tuition fees to feed off government aid since the school will not longer get to set the rate. We spend more than enough money in education in the US. The problem is that much of it is spent on stuff not at all related to schooling. For example, are you familiar with the scam that is for-profit education? Again your talking about something completely different. This conversation was about spending the 80 billion for the military on something else, like removing tuition fees from colleges. That has nothing to do with the way money is spend in the US education system (which is indeed bad). Its not about giving schools more money. Its about allowing poor people to not worry about the cost of education so they can try to get out of poverty trap. That's something of a false dichotomy. The government already covers a fairly hefty fraction of tuition, and in a sane country that money alone would be sufficient to pay tuition for students. But the incentives are such that increasing tuition is encouraged to soak up more money not really relevant to the main task. Enough money is being allotted, it's just not being spent well. We don't need to pull $80b to education, we can just spend it elsewhere and get better education results by better use of the funds already available. Specifically, spending on better education in underprivileged areas would have a large positive effect and wouldn't even be that expensive. Again your not getting it. This would be the government saying 'you get X per student and you can't charge them, make it work'. There is no increasing the money going in. Yes there are other ways to Education sector could spend its money, yes it could lower tuition rates and be perfectly fine. We aren't talking about that. The story was about money that was said not to exist for lowering the barrier of education while the military got billions they didn't even ask for.
If we're not talking about spending more money on education then we agree. But then there's no money from somewhere else we need to divert.
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EPT
