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On August 03 2017 04:35 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2017 04:30 Plansix wrote:
We already know how to fight disinformation. Educate the public and limit the venues for them to spread misinformation. That part is easy. This isn’t some 1984 style truth ministry. None of this stuff is that new. We were just caught off guard. Really? Where have you been the past twenty years or so? Look at the "My ignorance counts just as much as your knowledge/experience" in this country. Creationism, Anti-Vaxxers, Flat Earthers. We we're already stupid we just needed the push to Idiocracy.
https://gimletmedia.com/episode/86-man-of-the-people/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_R._Brinkley
This has all happened before. Just look back to Andrew Jackson. The foolish part is that we thing we are facing something new, rather than providing people with a new venue for the same old tricks.
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On August 03 2017 04:35 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2017 04:30 Plansix wrote:
We already know how to fight disinformation. Educate the public and limit the venues for them to spread misinformation. That part is easy. This isn’t some 1984 style truth ministry. None of this stuff is that new. We were just caught off guard. Really? Where have you been the past twenty years or so? Look at the "My ignorance counts just as much as your knowledge/experience" in this country. Creationism, Anti-Vaxxers, Flat Earthers. We we're already stupid we just needed the push to Idiocracy.
The quote you mentionned is from 1980 and already pointed out it was an old, old problem in the US, so i can second that. Here it is in its entirety:
'Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'
It's from Asimov.
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The Foundation series is a hell of a series.
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On August 03 2017 04:55 ShoCkeyy wrote:
The Foundation series is a hell of a series.
The Robots was great fun too especially the first couple of books. Don't like his late work so much though, and his characters are made of cardbox. But what imagination... He was something of a visionary.
And he would cry if he could see what's happening today.
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Asimov was great and would be chilling us with terrifying stories about the internet if he was alive today. At some point we will figure out that it isn’t making us smarter or better informed.
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On August 03 2017 04:40 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2017 04:35 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:On August 03 2017 04:30 Plansix wrote:
We already know how to fight disinformation. Educate the public and limit the venues for them to spread misinformation. That part is easy. This isn’t some 1984 style truth ministry. None of this stuff is that new. We were just caught off guard. Really? Where have you been the past twenty years or so? Look at the "My ignorance counts just as much as your knowledge/experience" in this country. Creationism, Anti-Vaxxers, Flat Earthers. We we're already stupid we just needed the push to Idiocracy. https://gimletmedia.com/episode/86-man-of-the-people/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_R._BrinkleyThis has all happened before. Just look back to Andrew Jackson. The foolish part is that we thing we are facing something new, rather than providing people with a new venue for the same old tricks.
Isn't it different on the global stage than it is domestically though? Domestically, education works because people generally have an interest in having an educated populace to make good governing decisions for the country as a whole.
Sometimes its advantageous for special interest groups to keep the populace uneducated or to misinform them, but they're generally outweighed by the larger populace.
Internationally though, that doesn't really hold. It's in the US interest to spread positive things about the US and negative things about Putin. It's in Putin's interest to spread positive things about Russia and negative things about the US
The UN would seem like the appropriate body to handle this, but the UN is also mostly useless.
I'm surprised the GEC isn't more politicized than it is. It seems like a classic case of "The US is an imperialist empire" vs "The US mostly is fighting for the right side" type of issue.
To answer my original question then, I suppose, there's not enough US political capital (domestically and abroad) to more seriously (and get EU onboard) sanction Russia for disinformation so the GEC is the solution?
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United States44448 Posts
On August 03 2017 05:03 mozoku wrote:
I suppose, there's not enough US political capital to sanction Russia for disinformation
???
Have you not been paying attention?
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Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev said on Wednesday that the United States declared a full-fledged trade war by introducing new anti-Russia sanctions, adding that there is no chance that the relations between the two states will improve.
"The signing by the US President of a new sanctions law against Russia creates several consequences: firstly, the hope of improving our relations with the new US administration is dead. Secondly, US declared a fully-fledged trade war on Russia. Thirdly, the Trump administration demonstrated complete impotence by humiliatingly transferring executive powers to the Congress, which changes the balance of power in US political circles," Medvedev wrote in his Facebook blog.
sputniknews.com
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On August 03 2017 05:06 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2017 05:03 mozoku wrote:
I suppose, there's not enough US political capital to sanction Russia for disinformation ??? Have you not been paying attention?
Yeah I should change that. What I meant is there's political resistance domestically and from Europe for more significant Russian sanctions.
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On August 03 2017 05:03 mozoku wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2017 04:40 Plansix wrote:On August 03 2017 04:35 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:On August 03 2017 04:30 Plansix wrote:
We already know how to fight disinformation. Educate the public and limit the venues for them to spread misinformation. That part is easy. This isn’t some 1984 style truth ministry. None of this stuff is that new. We were just caught off guard. Really? Where have you been the past twenty years or so? Look at the "My ignorance counts just as much as your knowledge/experience" in this country. Creationism, Anti-Vaxxers, Flat Earthers. We we're already stupid we just needed the push to Idiocracy. https://gimletmedia.com/episode/86-man-of-the-people/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_R._BrinkleyThis has all happened before. Just look back to Andrew Jackson. The foolish part is that we thing we are facing something new, rather than providing people with a new venue for the same old tricks. Isn't it different on the global stage than it is domestically though? Domestically, education works because people generally have an interest in having an educated populace to make good governing decisions for the country as a whole. Sometimes its advantageous for special interest groups to keep the populace uneducated or to misinform them, but they're generally outweighed by the larger populace. Internationally though, that doesn't really hold. It's in the US interest to spread positive things about the US and negative things about Putin. It's in Putin's interest to spread positive things about Russia and negative things about the US The UN would seem like the appropriate body to handle this, but the UN is also mostly useless. I'm surprised the GEC isn't more politicized than it is. It seems like a classic case of "The US is an imperialist empire" vs "The US mostly is fighting for the right side" type of issue. To answer my original question then, I suppose, there's not enough US political capital to sanction Russia for disinformation so the GEC is the solution?
The reality: you can’t stop them. Just like you can’t stop spies for trying to turn people and give them secret info. You can only limit the information they can gain access to and limit their impact on the population as a whole. The reason this Russian effort was so successful is the Republican candidate was pushing it almost line for line during the election. And the Republicans didn’t really see that as a big deal so long as they won. The democrats were to scared of the FBI and CIA leaking their stuff that they didn’t help the investigation. We didn’t get played. We played ourselves on every level.
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Does anyone remember old immigration debates where the instantaneous response was always:
"I am not against legal immigration, I am against ILLEGAL immigration."
Every time immigration came up, you were 5 posts from that line coming up. But Stephen Miller has very kindly made clear that the Trump administration and its 300+ electoral votes is proposing a 50% reduction in LEGAL immigration. This is great.
+ Show Spoiler +
EDIT: Miller goes on and on about Cosmopolitan bias. Miller grew up and went to school in Santa Monica. Oh man. This guy is going to last two weeks in front of the camera, max.
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Wait, I thought they already floated that bill a while ago and it died on arrival?
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United States41117 Posts
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On August 03 2017 05:03 Plansix wrote:
Asimov was great and would be chilling us with terrifying stories about the internet if he was alive today. At some point we will figure out that it isn’t making us smarter or better informed.
Asimov also knew all the verses of the Star Spangled Banner and was a great lover of America (not to be confused with a nationalist). One of the shining examples of how immigration helps countries.
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On August 03 2017 05:19 Wulfey_LA wrote:Does anyone remember old immigration debates where the instantaneous response was always: "I am not against legal immigration, I am against ILLEGAL immigration." Every time immigration came up, you were 5 posts from that line coming up. But Stephen Miller has very kindly made clear that the Trump administration and its 300+ electoral votes is proposing a 50% reduction in LEGAL immigration. This is great. + Show Spoiler +EDIT: Miller goes on and on about Cosmopolitan bias. Miller grew up and went to school in Santa Monica. Oh man. This guy is going to last two weeks in front of the camera, max.
Holy shit this guy is an asshole
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Miller used to work for Sessions in the senate. The two of them might be responsible for the death of every piece of immigration reform since Sessions was elected. It is their singular mission, to prevent more brown people from coming to America.
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United States41117 Posts
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I am actually totally on board with this immigration business. If you include a swift kick to the nuts for h1b, you've got yourself a voter. H1b needs to be mercilessly destroyed in the semiconductor industry. It is 100% unnecessary.
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On August 03 2017 07:26 Mohdoo wrote:
I am actually totally on board with this immigration business. If you include a swift kick to the nuts for h1b, you've got yourself a voter. H1b needs to be mercilessly destroyed in the semiconductor industry. It is 100% unnecessary.
Where are the american workers than can fill it?
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United States41117 Posts
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EPT
