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Every time a cop gets off for murdering a black person in cold blood I'm pretty sure a shitload of racists decide to take up that career where they're allowed to murder black people and get off scot free. I think the issues with the police are going to be even worse in a couple of years due to the appearance of state sanctioned executions of innocent people.
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On June 17 2017 10:44 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2017 10:42 Sermokala wrote:On June 17 2017 10:17 KwarK wrote:On June 17 2017 10:14 Sermokala wrote:
But we do have education to help women not get raped and take steps as a society to lower rapes yeah, I'm quite aware that victim blaming is pretty prevalent in society. On June 17 2017 10:14 Sermokala wrote:
except when its on a college campus for some reason. because it's fucking victim blaming and college campuses are ahead of the curve Somehow we're agreeing that it's victim blaming, the part you're disagreeing with is whether victim blaming is bad. Except its not victim blaming and we disagree that it is. We're talking about enforcing law and order and expecting the people that enforce it to be more infallible then we are. Its not victim when there are real cases of people killing police officers at random traffic stops. Rape isn't the same because no one is hired to do a job where rape is a casual expectation of that job. There isn't an occupation where rape is an acceptable outcome. The USA isn't Germany congrats Nyxisto on discovering this. Imprisoning officers for murder would be good when its actual murder. If you want to imprision police officers every time they kill someone you won't find enough people to be police officers or worse they simply won't do anything and the law simply won't be enforced. He was held responsible for his actions He had a trial and a jury of his peers decided that he wasn't guilty of manslaughter. Do we have to throw out all law and order now? You specifically told us that the prosecutor threw the case. You can't backtrack and say that he was held accountable because he was tried in front of a jury of his peers and present yourself as the voice of law and order.
I suspected that the prosecutor did a poor job because he was motivated to. I didn't say that threw out the whole system. the jury still had to judge based on the evidence no matter how poorly it was presented.
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On June 17 2017 10:51 Nevuk wrote:
Every time a cop gets off for murdering a black person in cold blood I'm pretty sure a shitload of racists decide to take up that career where they're allowed to murder black people and get off scot free. I think the issues with the police are going to be even worse in a couple of years due to the appearance of state sanctioned executions of innocent people.
Those racists already fill the ranks of police, though I'm sure this stuff doesn't help that any. It also doesn't do anything to help police getting shot in the future. Each and every case feeds the distrust, the anger, confirms that people should indeed be scared. It's not on the people to unfuck this cycle, it's on the police, legislators, and the criminal justice system. They're responsible for undoing this web they've woven.
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On June 17 2017 10:55 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2017 10:44 KwarK wrote:On June 17 2017 10:42 Sermokala wrote:On June 17 2017 10:17 KwarK wrote:On June 17 2017 10:14 Sermokala wrote:
But we do have education to help women not get raped and take steps as a society to lower rapes yeah, I'm quite aware that victim blaming is pretty prevalent in society. On June 17 2017 10:14 Sermokala wrote:
except when its on a college campus for some reason. because it's fucking victim blaming and college campuses are ahead of the curve Somehow we're agreeing that it's victim blaming, the part you're disagreeing with is whether victim blaming is bad. Except its not victim blaming and we disagree that it is. We're talking about enforcing law and order and expecting the people that enforce it to be more infallible then we are. Its not victim when there are real cases of people killing police officers at random traffic stops. Rape isn't the same because no one is hired to do a job where rape is a casual expectation of that job. There isn't an occupation where rape is an acceptable outcome. The USA isn't Germany congrats Nyxisto on discovering this. Imprisoning officers for murder would be good when its actual murder. If you want to imprision police officers every time they kill someone you won't find enough people to be police officers or worse they simply won't do anything and the law simply won't be enforced. He was held responsible for his actions He had a trial and a jury of his peers decided that he wasn't guilty of manslaughter. Do we have to throw out all law and order now? You specifically told us that the prosecutor threw the case. You can't backtrack and say that he was held accountable because he was tried in front of a jury of his peers and present yourself as the voice of law and order. I suspected that the prosecutor did a poor job because he was motivated to. I didn't say that threw out the whole system. the jury still had to judge based on the evidence no matter how poorly it was presented.
dude, it doesn't work like that.
I mean, c'mon, be real. If the prosecutor tanked the case, the system doesn't work. It is an adversarial system, if one of the adversaries declines to do their job, then the other side is gonna win.
You can't seriously claim to count it as a real trial if one of the sides was throwing the case.
A jury judges on the evidences presented; and there's more burden on the prosecution to show a case; if the prosecution tanks it, it's an autoloss, it's simply not possible for a jury to find otherwise.
you simply cannot claim the system had a fair shot if there was never a real attempt to convict.
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United States43219 Posts
On June 17 2017 10:55 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2017 10:44 KwarK wrote:On June 17 2017 10:42 Sermokala wrote:On June 17 2017 10:17 KwarK wrote:On June 17 2017 10:14 Sermokala wrote:
But we do have education to help women not get raped and take steps as a society to lower rapes yeah, I'm quite aware that victim blaming is pretty prevalent in society. On June 17 2017 10:14 Sermokala wrote:
except when its on a college campus for some reason. because it's fucking victim blaming and college campuses are ahead of the curve Somehow we're agreeing that it's victim blaming, the part you're disagreeing with is whether victim blaming is bad. Except its not victim blaming and we disagree that it is. We're talking about enforcing law and order and expecting the people that enforce it to be more infallible then we are. Its not victim when there are real cases of people killing police officers at random traffic stops. Rape isn't the same because no one is hired to do a job where rape is a casual expectation of that job. There isn't an occupation where rape is an acceptable outcome. The USA isn't Germany congrats Nyxisto on discovering this. Imprisoning officers for murder would be good when its actual murder. If you want to imprision police officers every time they kill someone you won't find enough people to be police officers or worse they simply won't do anything and the law simply won't be enforced. He was held responsible for his actions He had a trial and a jury of his peers decided that he wasn't guilty of manslaughter. Do we have to throw out all law and order now? You specifically told us that the prosecutor threw the case. You can't backtrack and say that he was held accountable because he was tried in front of a jury of his peers and present yourself as the voice of law and order. I suspected that the prosecutor did a poor job because he was motivated to. I didn't say that threw out the whole system. the jury still had to judge based on the evidence no matter how poorly it was presented.
You cannot make the argument that the prosecutors threw the case because he was innocent and you know he was innocent because the jury found him innocent after hearing a deliberately fumbled case from the prosecution and then insist that if I have a problem with this then I am opposed to the principle of law and order.
There is no justice in a show trial.
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On June 17 2017 10:42 Sermokala wrote:
The USA isn't Germany congrats Nyxisto on discovering this.
Imprisoning officers for murder would be good when its actual murder. If you want to imprision police officers every time they kill someone you won't find enough people to be police officers or worse they simply won't do anything and the law simply won't be enforced.
I know that and it doesn't need to be. But this is politics, don't frame it as a law of nature. Americans aren't multiple times more violent than anybody else, what's wrong with training police officers for say two or three years instead of sending them out after what is it currently in the US, a few months?
If that weeds out the idiots and reduces numbers so be it, that's better than having some armed mob running around with the authority of the state
"we needed more people so we had to work with what we got" is an argument that is defensible for the burger king night shift, not your official law enforcement
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On June 17 2017 10:56 OuchyDathurts wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2017 10:51 Nevuk wrote:
Every time a cop gets off for murdering a black person in cold blood I'm pretty sure a shitload of racists decide to take up that career where they're allowed to murder black people and get off scot free. I think the issues with the police are going to be even worse in a couple of years due to the appearance of state sanctioned executions of innocent people. Those racists already fill the ranks of police, though I'm sure this stuff doesn't help that any. It also doesn't do anything to help police getting shot in the future. Each and every case feeds the distrust, the anger, confirms that people should indeed be scared. It's not on the people to unfuck this cycle, it's on the police, legislators, and the criminal justice system. They're responsible for undoing this web they've woven.
You think the thing that is broken is responsible for fixing itself? If its really as filled with murderers racists and people who benifit from the system why do you think that they'll do anything to change what they're doing if they're doing exactly what they want?
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On June 17 2017 11:00 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2017 10:56 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 17 2017 10:51 Nevuk wrote:
Every time a cop gets off for murdering a black person in cold blood I'm pretty sure a shitload of racists decide to take up that career where they're allowed to murder black people and get off scot free. I think the issues with the police are going to be even worse in a couple of years due to the appearance of state sanctioned executions of innocent people. Those racists already fill the ranks of police, though I'm sure this stuff doesn't help that any. It also doesn't do anything to help police getting shot in the future. Each and every case feeds the distrust, the anger, confirms that people should indeed be scared. It's not on the people to unfuck this cycle, it's on the police, legislators, and the criminal justice system. They're responsible for undoing this web they've woven. You think the thing that is broken is responsible for fixing itself? If its really as filled with murderers racists and people who benifit from the system why do you think that they'll do anything to change what they're doing if they're doing exactly what they want?
People who are given power must be held to higher standards. Either those in power fix their household or they're not going to be too thrilled when they're burned alive inside the house. Its really that simple. Police (and the police state) have sewn these seeds. They've got the responsibility to fix it, or its all going to come crashing down.
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United States43219 Posts
On June 17 2017 11:00 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2017 10:56 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 17 2017 10:51 Nevuk wrote:
Every time a cop gets off for murdering a black person in cold blood I'm pretty sure a shitload of racists decide to take up that career where they're allowed to murder black people and get off scot free. I think the issues with the police are going to be even worse in a couple of years due to the appearance of state sanctioned executions of innocent people. Those racists already fill the ranks of police, though I'm sure this stuff doesn't help that any. It also doesn't do anything to help police getting shot in the future. Each and every case feeds the distrust, the anger, confirms that people should indeed be scared. It's not on the people to unfuck this cycle, it's on the police, legislators, and the criminal justice system. They're responsible for undoing this web they've woven. You think the thing that is broken is responsible for fixing itself? If its really as filled with murderers racists and people who benifit from the system why do you think that they'll do anything to change what they're doing if they're doing exactly what they want?
Which is why we're saying the broken thing needs to change, rather than arguing that we send educators out to schools in minority districts to say "remember the police will probably shoot you so don't reach for your wallet, even if they tell you to get your ID".
You're arguing that the system is broken so everyone else needs to adjust to accept a haircut on their civil rights so they don't clash so much with the broken system. That's some grade A bullshit.
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On June 17 2017 10:42 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2017 10:17 KwarK wrote:On June 17 2017 10:14 Sermokala wrote:
But we do have education to help women not get raped and take steps as a society to lower rapes yeah, I'm quite aware that victim blaming is pretty prevalent in society. On June 17 2017 10:14 Sermokala wrote:
except when its on a college campus for some reason. because it's fucking victim blaming and college campuses are ahead of the curve Somehow we're agreeing that it's victim blaming, the part you're disagreeing with is whether victim blaming is bad. Except its not victim blaming and we disagree that it is. We're talking about enforcing law and order and expecting the people that enforce it to be more infallible then we are. Its not victim when there are real cases of people killing police officers at random traffic stops. Rape isn't the same because no one is hired to do a job where rape is a casual expectation of that job. There isn't an occupation where rape is an acceptable outcome.
This is a very arbitrary reason to claim that this isn't victim blaming. If you change the circumstances, the police officer would have made the right call in reacting the way he did. Yeah, that's true. But in this case, the circumstances weren't changed, he didn't make the right call, and you're still talking about what Castille should have done to avoid getting shot for no logically sound reason.
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On June 17 2017 11:04 OuchyDathurts wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2017 11:00 Sermokala wrote:On June 17 2017 10:56 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 17 2017 10:51 Nevuk wrote:
Every time a cop gets off for murdering a black person in cold blood I'm pretty sure a shitload of racists decide to take up that career where they're allowed to murder black people and get off scot free. I think the issues with the police are going to be even worse in a couple of years due to the appearance of state sanctioned executions of innocent people. Those racists already fill the ranks of police, though I'm sure this stuff doesn't help that any. It also doesn't do anything to help police getting shot in the future. Each and every case feeds the distrust, the anger, confirms that people should indeed be scared. It's not on the people to unfuck this cycle, it's on the police, legislators, and the criminal justice system. They're responsible for undoing this web they've woven. You think the thing that is broken is responsible for fixing itself? If its really as filled with murderers racists and people who benifit from the system why do you think that they'll do anything to change what they're doing if they're doing exactly what they want? People who are given power must be held to higher standards. Either those in power fix their household or they're not going to be too thrilled when they're burned alive inside the house. Its really that simple. Police (and the police state) have sewn these seeds. They've got the responsibility to fix it, or its all going to come crashing down.
That sounds great in an Idealistic sense but it doesn't hold water in the real world. Power corrupts people and only by motivating their corruption do you get anywhere. There is no incentive to fix the system and there is incentive to not fix it therefore the system won't be fixed.
People who are given power must be held to lower standards and to remove their power when they fail to reach those low standards.
On June 17 2017 11:05 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2017 11:00 Sermokala wrote:On June 17 2017 10:56 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 17 2017 10:51 Nevuk wrote:
Every time a cop gets off for murdering a black person in cold blood I'm pretty sure a shitload of racists decide to take up that career where they're allowed to murder black people and get off scot free. I think the issues with the police are going to be even worse in a couple of years due to the appearance of state sanctioned executions of innocent people. Those racists already fill the ranks of police, though I'm sure this stuff doesn't help that any. It also doesn't do anything to help police getting shot in the future. Each and every case feeds the distrust, the anger, confirms that people should indeed be scared. It's not on the people to unfuck this cycle, it's on the police, legislators, and the criminal justice system. They're responsible for undoing this web they've woven. You think the thing that is broken is responsible for fixing itself? If its really as filled with murderers racists and people who benifit from the system why do you think that they'll do anything to change what they're doing if they're doing exactly what they want? Which is why we're saying the broken thing needs to change, rather than arguing that we send educators out to schools in minority districts to say "remember the police will probably shoot you so don't reach for your wallet, even if they tell you to get your ID". You're arguing that the system is broken so everyone else needs to adjust to accept a haircut on their civil rights so they don't clash so much with the broken system. That's some grade A bullshit.
You're not saying the broken things need to be changed your saying the people involved should be punished for the broken things, Telling people "don't tell the cop you have a gun when you are reaching in your waist beacuse thats suspicious" is common sense that people trip out of.
I'm arguing that the system is what people should focus on and you're the one whos arguing for little more then punishing the people within that system. Cutting the grass isn't going to stop the grass from growing in my lawn.
On June 17 2017 11:06 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2017 10:42 Sermokala wrote:On June 17 2017 10:17 KwarK wrote:On June 17 2017 10:14 Sermokala wrote:
But we do have education to help women not get raped and take steps as a society to lower rapes yeah, I'm quite aware that victim blaming is pretty prevalent in society. On June 17 2017 10:14 Sermokala wrote:
except when its on a college campus for some reason. because it's fucking victim blaming and college campuses are ahead of the curve Somehow we're agreeing that it's victim blaming, the part you're disagreeing with is whether victim blaming is bad. Except its not victim blaming and we disagree that it is. We're talking about enforcing law and order and expecting the people that enforce it to be more infallible then we are. Its not victim when there are real cases of people killing police officers at random traffic stops. Rape isn't the same because no one is hired to do a job where rape is a casual expectation of that job. There isn't an occupation where rape is an acceptable outcome. This is a very arbitrary reason to claim that this isn't victim blaming. If you change the circumstances, the police officer would have made the right call in reacting the way he did. Yeah, that's true. But in this case, the circumstances weren't changed, he didn't make the right call, and you're still talking about what Castille should have done to avoid getting shot for no logically sound reason.
He was shot for a logicaly sound reason. He was high on drugs and made an illogical decision that caused an officer to fear for his life. How about don't smoke pot and then drive with a gun in your waist?
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On June 17 2017 11:07 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2017 11:04 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 17 2017 11:00 Sermokala wrote:On June 17 2017 10:56 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 17 2017 10:51 Nevuk wrote:
Every time a cop gets off for murdering a black person in cold blood I'm pretty sure a shitload of racists decide to take up that career where they're allowed to murder black people and get off scot free. I think the issues with the police are going to be even worse in a couple of years due to the appearance of state sanctioned executions of innocent people. Those racists already fill the ranks of police, though I'm sure this stuff doesn't help that any. It also doesn't do anything to help police getting shot in the future. Each and every case feeds the distrust, the anger, confirms that people should indeed be scared. It's not on the people to unfuck this cycle, it's on the police, legislators, and the criminal justice system. They're responsible for undoing this web they've woven. You think the thing that is broken is responsible for fixing itself? If its really as filled with murderers racists and people who benifit from the system why do you think that they'll do anything to change what they're doing if they're doing exactly what they want? People who are given power must be held to higher standards. Either those in power fix their household or they're not going to be too thrilled when they're burned alive inside the house. Its really that simple. Police (and the police state) have sewn these seeds. They've got the responsibility to fix it, or its all going to come crashing down. That sounds great in an Idealistic sense but it doesn't hold water in the real world. Power corrupts people and only by motivating their corruption do you get anywhere. There is no incentive to fix the system and there is incentive to not fix it therefore the system won't be fixed. People who are given power must be held to lower standards and to remove their power when they fail to reach those low standards.
I prefer to hold my people to higher standards. and it most certainly IS possible to hold people with extra power to higher standards; it's done all the time, and it most certainly can work. part of the point of the higher standards is that we know their corruption makes it easier for them to get away with things, so the highre standards help counteract that.
also, in this case he didn't satisfy those lower standards either.
there'd be plenty of incentive to fix the system if more people would those responsible responsible. If everyone demanded that, there wouldn't be these kinds of killings. they exist because some people chose NOT to hold people responsible.
Really what your saying is very antithetical to law and order.
sermo, it kinda feels like your personal bias is preventing you from seeing the case clearly. the points being made by us are sufficiently clear, and you seem to be avoiding it. oddly though I didn't think you were so personally close to the person for this level of rationalization to kick in; so maybe its' something else.
you're arguing that we should NOT hold people responsible for murder.
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U.S. Office of Government Ethics: Trump Owes $315 Million in Liabilities to Lenders
A late Friday document dump by the U.S. Office of Government Ethics revealed that President Donald Trump owes at least $315 million in personal liabilities to several U.S. and foreign lenders, according to a federal financial disclosure.
The 98-page disclosure shows that Trump has at least $130 million in liabilities to the German lender Deutsche Bank Trust Company Americas as well as $110 million to Ladder Capital, a commercial real estate lender in the U.S.
The disclosure also shows that Trump reported an income of $594 million in 2016 and had $1.4 billion in assets as of early 2017. And before becoming president, he held officer positions in 565 corporations and entities, many of which had ended before he was sworn in on Jan. 20.
The White House issued a statement, saying, “President Trump welcomed the opportunity to voluntarily file his personal financial disclosure form,” which was “certified by the Office of Government Ethics pursuant to its normal procedures.”
www.mediaite.com
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United States43219 Posts
On June 17 2017 11:07 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2017 11:04 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 17 2017 11:00 Sermokala wrote:On June 17 2017 10:56 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 17 2017 10:51 Nevuk wrote:
Every time a cop gets off for murdering a black person in cold blood I'm pretty sure a shitload of racists decide to take up that career where they're allowed to murder black people and get off scot free. I think the issues with the police are going to be even worse in a couple of years due to the appearance of state sanctioned executions of innocent people. Those racists already fill the ranks of police, though I'm sure this stuff doesn't help that any. It also doesn't do anything to help police getting shot in the future. Each and every case feeds the distrust, the anger, confirms that people should indeed be scared. It's not on the people to unfuck this cycle, it's on the police, legislators, and the criminal justice system. They're responsible for undoing this web they've woven. You think the thing that is broken is responsible for fixing itself? If its really as filled with murderers racists and people who benifit from the system why do you think that they'll do anything to change what they're doing if they're doing exactly what they want? People who are given power must be held to higher standards. Either those in power fix their household or they're not going to be too thrilled when they're burned alive inside the house. Its really that simple. Police (and the police state) have sewn these seeds. They've got the responsibility to fix it, or its all going to come crashing down. That sounds great in an Idealistic sense but it doesn't hold water in the real world. Power corrupts people and only by motivating their corruption do you get anywhere. There is no incentive to fix the system and there is incentive to not fix it therefore the system won't be fixed. People who are given power must be held to lower standards and to remove their power when they fail to reach those low standards. Show nested quote +On June 17 2017 11:05 KwarK wrote:On June 17 2017 11:00 Sermokala wrote:On June 17 2017 10:56 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 17 2017 10:51 Nevuk wrote:
Every time a cop gets off for murdering a black person in cold blood I'm pretty sure a shitload of racists decide to take up that career where they're allowed to murder black people and get off scot free. I think the issues with the police are going to be even worse in a couple of years due to the appearance of state sanctioned executions of innocent people. Those racists already fill the ranks of police, though I'm sure this stuff doesn't help that any. It also doesn't do anything to help police getting shot in the future. Each and every case feeds the distrust, the anger, confirms that people should indeed be scared. It's not on the people to unfuck this cycle, it's on the police, legislators, and the criminal justice system. They're responsible for undoing this web they've woven. You think the thing that is broken is responsible for fixing itself? If its really as filled with murderers racists and people who benifit from the system why do you think that they'll do anything to change what they're doing if they're doing exactly what they want? Which is why we're saying the broken thing needs to change, rather than arguing that we send educators out to schools in minority districts to say "remember the police will probably shoot you so don't reach for your wallet, even if they tell you to get your ID". You're arguing that the system is broken so everyone else needs to adjust to accept a haircut on their civil rights so they don't clash so much with the broken system. That's some grade A bullshit. You're not saying the broken things need to be changed your saying the people involved should be punished for the broken things, Telling people "don't tell the cop you have a gun when you are reaching in your waist beacuse thats suspicious" is common sense that people trip out of. I'm arguing that the system is what people should focus on and you're the one whos arguing for little more then punishing the people within that system. Cutting the grass isn't going to stop the grass from growing in my lawn.
Cutting grass absolutely stops grass from growing. Look at a heap of grass cuttings. They don't grow, they wither and rot.
The police officer in question executed a guy for doing nothing that wasn't perfectly reasonable and normal for that interaction. Locking him up is the solution. He was the problem with the system and removing him from that system is the solution. Him and the crooked prosecutor.
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sermo -> please stop edit adding to your posts after people have already replied to them; it really confuses the chain of discussion, and it makes it easy to miss points you've made.
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On June 17 2017 11:07 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2017 11:04 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 17 2017 11:00 Sermokala wrote:On June 17 2017 10:56 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 17 2017 10:51 Nevuk wrote:
Every time a cop gets off for murdering a black person in cold blood I'm pretty sure a shitload of racists decide to take up that career where they're allowed to murder black people and get off scot free. I think the issues with the police are going to be even worse in a couple of years due to the appearance of state sanctioned executions of innocent people. Those racists already fill the ranks of police, though I'm sure this stuff doesn't help that any. It also doesn't do anything to help police getting shot in the future. Each and every case feeds the distrust, the anger, confirms that people should indeed be scared. It's not on the people to unfuck this cycle, it's on the police, legislators, and the criminal justice system. They're responsible for undoing this web they've woven. You think the thing that is broken is responsible for fixing itself? If its really as filled with murderers racists and people who benifit from the system why do you think that they'll do anything to change what they're doing if they're doing exactly what they want? People who are given power must be held to higher standards. Either those in power fix their household or they're not going to be too thrilled when they're burned alive inside the house. Its really that simple. Police (and the police state) have sewn these seeds. They've got the responsibility to fix it, or its all going to come crashing down. That sounds great in an Idealistic sense but it doesn't hold water in the real world. Power corrupts people and only by motivating their corruption do you get anywhere. There is no incentive to fix the system and there is incentive to not fix it therefore the system won't be fixed. People who are given power must be held to lower standards and to remove their power when they fail to reach those low standards.
It doesn't follow from "It's going to be hard to hold people who are given power to high standards" that therefore "People who are given power must be held to lower standards". Just because something is hard to obtain, just because the obstacle is great, doesn't mean we should just accept the bad situation. If you accept that having a police force that doesn't treat your citizen as the enemy is a nice goal to have, if you accept that it should be okay to drive while black without being so threatening that you get to have your life ended randomly some of the time, then you should be an idealist and fight for it.
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On June 17 2017 11:14 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2017 11:07 Sermokala wrote:On June 17 2017 11:04 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 17 2017 11:00 Sermokala wrote:On June 17 2017 10:56 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 17 2017 10:51 Nevuk wrote:
Every time a cop gets off for murdering a black person in cold blood I'm pretty sure a shitload of racists decide to take up that career where they're allowed to murder black people and get off scot free. I think the issues with the police are going to be even worse in a couple of years due to the appearance of state sanctioned executions of innocent people. Those racists already fill the ranks of police, though I'm sure this stuff doesn't help that any. It also doesn't do anything to help police getting shot in the future. Each and every case feeds the distrust, the anger, confirms that people should indeed be scared. It's not on the people to unfuck this cycle, it's on the police, legislators, and the criminal justice system. They're responsible for undoing this web they've woven. You think the thing that is broken is responsible for fixing itself? If its really as filled with murderers racists and people who benifit from the system why do you think that they'll do anything to change what they're doing if they're doing exactly what they want? People who are given power must be held to higher standards. Either those in power fix their household or they're not going to be too thrilled when they're burned alive inside the house. Its really that simple. Police (and the police state) have sewn these seeds. They've got the responsibility to fix it, or its all going to come crashing down. That sounds great in an Idealistic sense but it doesn't hold water in the real world. Power corrupts people and only by motivating their corruption do you get anywhere. There is no incentive to fix the system and there is incentive to not fix it therefore the system won't be fixed. People who are given power must be held to lower standards and to remove their power when they fail to reach those low standards. On June 17 2017 11:05 KwarK wrote:On June 17 2017 11:00 Sermokala wrote:On June 17 2017 10:56 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 17 2017 10:51 Nevuk wrote:
Every time a cop gets off for murdering a black person in cold blood I'm pretty sure a shitload of racists decide to take up that career where they're allowed to murder black people and get off scot free. I think the issues with the police are going to be even worse in a couple of years due to the appearance of state sanctioned executions of innocent people. Those racists already fill the ranks of police, though I'm sure this stuff doesn't help that any. It also doesn't do anything to help police getting shot in the future. Each and every case feeds the distrust, the anger, confirms that people should indeed be scared. It's not on the people to unfuck this cycle, it's on the police, legislators, and the criminal justice system. They're responsible for undoing this web they've woven. You think the thing that is broken is responsible for fixing itself? If its really as filled with murderers racists and people who benifit from the system why do you think that they'll do anything to change what they're doing if they're doing exactly what they want? Which is why we're saying the broken thing needs to change, rather than arguing that we send educators out to schools in minority districts to say "remember the police will probably shoot you so don't reach for your wallet, even if they tell you to get your ID". You're arguing that the system is broken so everyone else needs to adjust to accept a haircut on their civil rights so they don't clash so much with the broken system. That's some grade A bullshit. You're not saying the broken things need to be changed your saying the people involved should be punished for the broken things, Telling people "don't tell the cop you have a gun when you are reaching in your waist beacuse thats suspicious" is common sense that people trip out of. I'm arguing that the system is what people should focus on and you're the one whos arguing for little more then punishing the people within that system. Cutting the grass isn't going to stop the grass from growing in my lawn. Cutting grass absolutely stops grass from growing. Look at a heap of grass cuttings. They don't grow, they wither and rot. The police officer in question executed a guy for doing nothing that wasn't perfectly reasonable and normal for that interaction. Locking him up is the solution. He was the problem with the system and removing him from that system is the solution. Him and the crooked prosecutor.
people mow their lawns and grass grows. People wouldn't mow their lawns there wouldn't be an industry of rideing lawn mowers and industrial lawn mowers or lawns of grass in general if they died when they get cut.
the police officer in question killed a guy because he was scared for his life as is a danger in his occupation. Saying you have a gun and reaching for your wallet isn't reasonable and isn't normal. Locking him up will send a message that police can't defend themselves if they fear for their lives and murders will go up. This actually isn't an argument but a verifiable truth from the murder statistics in america. Locking up the prosecutor for wanting to do their job the best they can will send a message that they need to do a bad job because people want them to do a worse job. The guy who taught the guy who got shot testified that he was in the wrong for announcing he had a gun to the cop.
The world is shitty. Either acept that shittyness and try to get it better or live in a fantasy world and stop bothering the rest of us.
On June 17 2017 11:18 zlefin wrote:
sermo -> please stop edit adding to your posts after people have already replied to them; it really confuses the chain of discussion, and it makes it easy to miss points you've made.
yeah but I don't want to flood the thread with my posts considering I'm out numbered.
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On June 17 2017 11:07 Sermokala wrote:
I'm arguing that the system is what people should focus on and you're the one whos arguing for little more then punishing the people within that system. Cutting the grass isn't going to stop the grass from growing in my lawn.
If that's what you're arguing, it sure doesn't seem like it. Kwark insists the system is the problem, and that people should stand up to the broken system. I've only seen you argue what the public should do in a broken system, so as not to incur its wrath. One of you two is doing what you say you're doing, but it's not the person you think it is.
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On June 17 2017 11:07 Sermokala wrote:
He was shot for a logicaly sound reason. He was high on drugs and made an illogical decision that caused an officer to fear for his life. How about don't smoke pot and then drive with a gun in your waist?
What you describe isn't a logically sound reason to get shot. It's kind of weird that you think it is.
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On June 17 2017 11:26 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2017 11:07 Sermokala wrote:
I'm arguing that the system is what people should focus on and you're the one whos arguing for little more then punishing the people within that system. Cutting the grass isn't going to stop the grass from growing in my lawn. If that's what you're arguing, it sure doesn't seem like it. Kwark insists the system is the problem, and that people should stand up to the broken system. I've only seen you argue what the public should do in a broken system, so as not to incur its wrath. One of you two is doing what you say you're doing, but it's not the person you think it is.
No we're both doing what we're saying we're doing. We both insist that the system is broken But kwark belives we should stand up to the people of the system and making victims of the people who work with the system while I'm saying acept that the system is shitty and make the system better.
The same people who would forgive people who turn to crime and the drug trade would rather punish police who are in a flawed system for following what the system tells them.
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EPT
