US Politics Mega-thread - Page 7673

On May 30 2017 01:06 maybenexttime wrote:
GH seems like a hopeless case of "black fragility", to be honest. If anyone disagrees with him, he just throws a tantrum. What's the point of continuing this discussion?

On May 30 2017 01:01 Danglars wrote:

I next need to know how dismissing the opinions of blacks with jobs is comedic gold and not oppression. And I was damn serious not knowing how people of your thinking will respond to every strange protest demand. Is it totally taking the worst example to slam the movement, or so obviously the right course of action that only a white man would not get?

When you earlier dismissed some poster's thoughts as white fragility, I was kind of reminded that you actually want more insults and bitterness not solutions.

On May 30 2017 03:33 Mohdoo wrote:
GH, it often feels like you use racist spats as a way to punish the people of TL for the mistakes of their respective races. You are often saying stuff that feels racist and broad stroke'ish (how many times have people on TL been told they are suffering from white fragility or something similar?), then turn around and tell us it is what blacks deal with all the time and that we are being more sensitive than we allow blacks to be. But this is TL, not just random society. And we are straight up not those people. I think you bring the conversation down with your weird views on responsibility and history. Your argument always seems to boil down to "Since I have to deal with the impacts of a history of slavery and racism, you have to deal with the guilt and responsibility". In fact, you've even cited having to deal with the impacts of slavery recently.

Telling people they are responsible for the mistakes of their ancestors is deeply offensive and I don't understand why it is tolerated around here.

On May 30 2017 03:11 Slydie wrote:


USA is a racist country, and racism is deeply rooted in people's minds and institutions. You have been hiding it well for a while, but Trump's victory made it obvious again to the whole world. Given your history, it is likely to stick around for at least a couple of hundred years.

What puzzles me more is that your population, which mainly consists of immigrants (many illigal) from all over the world, has turned to "me first" and "don't let them in". The country itself is a prime example that pluralism is a way to gain world dominance!

On May 30 2017 03:53 Plansix wrote:
The problem for black voters is that if the vote Republican, they might not get to vote again. Voter repression real limits voting options.

On May 30 2017 03:41 GreenHorizons wrote:


Absolutely not, "punishing people of TL for the mistakes of their respective races" is as stupid as it sounds.

I know it "feels racist" but I can assure you it's not.

On May 30 2017 03:41 GreenHorizons wrote:


White fragility is a real phenomena, and while the word "fragility" seems to be triggering, it's not insulting.

TL has "those people" like everywhere else, admittedly, basically everywhere else on the internet would be filled with racial epithets by now (because you know, "not much" racism anymore).

On May 30 2017 03:41 GreenHorizons wrote:

And you're god damn right that if I have to deal with the lingering impacts of slavery, segregation, slave catchers turned police, etc, white people do too, that you think they are entitled not to is as self-centered and irresponsible as it sounds.

On May 30 2017 04:09 Mohdoo wrote:


How many times have you lectured people on TL about how their definition of racism isn't valid, because it doesn't reflect the way you or other people feel? That someone doesn't need to "try" to be racist to be racist and that it is important to respect people's feelings when they feel they are the victim of racism?



I don't know what you mean by this



No, we don't. You know that doesn't actually make sense. What you are doing is shaming people on TL and it makes no sense. It is often times akin to harassment. You consistently take it too far and randomly call people out. And throughout the whole time, you are wildly condescending, make enormous emotional appeals about your struggles as a black person, then shame anyone who disagrees with you. It is extremely bad for the conversation.

There have often been times that you make some extremely broad stroke generalizations. These generalizations often include white people. I think it is worth realizing these kinds of broad stroke generalizations made about other races would very likely not be tolerated on TL. In fact, I can recall numerous times where hints of anti-black racism were banned immediately.

Compare your general tone and posting style to anyone else here. Is anyone as aggressive, condescending and insulting? No one on this forum regularly says negative things about a specific race of people as you do. You are constantly finding ways to make off-handed jabs about white denial or what have you.

No, we don't. You know that doesn't actually make sense. What you are doing is shaming people on TL and it makes no sense. It is often times akin to harassment. You consistently take it too far and randomly call people out. And throughout the whole time, you are wildly condescending, make enormous emotional appeals about your struggles as a black person, then shame anyone who disagrees with you. It is extremely bad for the conversation.

Baltimore Mayor Catherine Pugh is considering the removal of her city's Confederate monuments, as New Orleans did just days ago.

"The city does want to remove these," Pugh told the Baltimore Sun. "We will take a closer look at how we go about following in the footsteps of New Orleans."

Earlier this month, New Orleans Mayor Mitch Landrieu delivered a speech that drew widespread attention, explaining why he had ordered the removal of that city's confederate monuments.

Among Baltimore's monuments to the Confederacy is a statue of Roger Taney, the Supreme Court chief justice who wrote the infamous Dred Scott decision that said, among other things, that African-Americans could not be citizens. The city also has statues of Confederate generals Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson.

Pugh suggested one way to get rid of the statues, telling the Sun, "It costs about $200,000 a statute to tear them down. ... Maybe we can auction them?"

The previous mayor of Baltimore, Stephanie Rawlings-Blake, ordered the placement of interpretive plaques at the monuments. One such plaque, placed at a statue of Lee and Jackson, states:

"These two men became subjects of the Lost Cause movement which portrayed them as Christian soldiers and even as men who opposed slavery. Today current scholarship refutes these claims. These larger-than-life representations of Lee and Jackson helped perpetuate the Lost Cause ideology, which advocated for white supremacy, portrayed slavery as benign and justified secession."

Carolyn Billups, former president of the Maryland chapter of the United Daughters of the Confederacy, told the Sun, "I find it interesting that Baltimore city has that kind of money to move statues when there are problems with crime and schools. I would think that would be more of a priority."

On May 30 2017 04:25 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
The sooner the better:



Source

Alabama Gov. Kay Ivey (R) this week signed legislation that will preempt cities and counties from removing monuments to the Confederacy from public property, over the objections of black lawmakers and civil rights groups.

The legislation comes after the city of New Orleans removed several statues honoring Confederate figures in recent weeks. The measure’s lead sponsor, state Sen. Gerald Allen (R), said he hoped to end the “wave of political correctness” sweeping the nation.

“Where does it end? Are all parts of American history subject to purging, until every Ivy League professor is satisfied and the American story has been re-written as nothing but a complete fraud and a betrayal of our founding values of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?” Allen said.

The bill will block local governments from removing monuments that have been on public property for more than 40 years. It also prevents renaming public schools that have stood for 40 years.
There are at least nine confederate monuments around Alabama that would be protected under the law, including a monument at the state capitol in Montgomery, the cornerstone of which was laid by Confederate President Jefferson Davis. A Birmingham park board decided to remove one of those monuments in 2015.

Opponents of the measure said the monuments celebrate white supremacy and honor the slavery the Confederacy sought to preserve.

“These racist symbols have no place on government property, where they counter our nation’s core principle to ensure liberty and justice for all,” Rhonda Brownstein, legal director at the Southern Poverty Law Center, said in a statement. “By signing this bill, Gov. Kay Ivey indicates that lauding white supremacy is more important than demonstrating equality for all Alabamians.”

On May 30 2017 04:22 GreenHorizons wrote:


Not enough it appears.

I don't know how to make it more simple for you to understand?




My condescension as you interpret it comes from literally years of trying to get people to understand how oblivious and offensive they are being when they think they are being "reasonable", "centrist", or whatever euphemism they want to use for putting forth a racist position with the best intentions.

On May 30 2017 04:22 GreenHorizons wrote:


Not enough it appears.

I don't know how to make it more simple for you to understand?




You may remember part of what sparked this angle of the conversation was the declaration from Zlefin (our perpetual sensible person) that not only was I wrong about the general consensus opinion here, he then confirmed both that I was right about the majority opinion and added the idea that there is "not much" racism.

I missed the part where you told him that was "bad for the conversation"?

On May 30 2017 00:56 Danglars wrote:

Or all this college subliminal racism in emails shit is the insanity, and the people I mentioned are right about it. It's a wonderful thing to claim you speak for your race or the true issues your race faces, then claim people that disagree are sucking up.

On May 30 2017 03:41 GreenHorizons wrote:


goodness.

Absolutely not, "punishing people of TL for the mistakes of their respective races" is as stupid as it sounds.

I know it "feels racist" but I can assure you it's not.

White fragility is a real phenomena, and while the word "fragility" seems to be triggering, it's not insulting.

TL has "those people" like everywhere else, admittedly, basically everywhere else on the internet would be filled with racial epithets by now (because you know, "not much" racism anymore).

I'm not even talking about history. White people tend to put all of the abuses of racism into some category of "history" but people that lived through the Tuskegee experiments still go to hospitals, Stop and Frisk wasn't generations ago, NYC officers stopped and frisked more young black men than there are young black men in NYC.

That's a massive violation of their 4th amendment rights, and the "constitutional crew" will tell you how it reduced crime, ignoring the massive violation of those black men's constitutional rights.

I get it the white liberals here and anywhere don't like being told many of their positions are just as racist as those on the right, but it's the truth and for too long liberals have gotten away with it being the only alternative option to the outright and always racist republican party.

And you're god damn right that if I have to deal with the lingering impacts of slavery, segregation, slave catchers turned police, etc, white people do too, that you think they are entitled not to is as self-centered and irresponsible as it sounds.

White House budgets are more messaging tools than spending plans. And President Donald Trump’s message last week was loud and clear: States, counties, cities and towns will have to do more with less.

Those were tough words to hear in Union County, Tenn., where a fifth of the population lives in poverty. And in Allentown, Pa., where property taxes would need to double or triple to make up for the loss of federal spending. Gary, Ind., by law, can’t raise property taxes even if it wants to.

The administration’s proposed federal budget cuts are, in effect, local budget cuts that ignore the economic realities of the communities that voted for Trump. The president’s plan proposes deep reductions to agriculture subsidies and eliminates billions of dollars for housing, transportation, environmental cleanup and job training. It calls for “a greater role for state and local governments and the private sector to address community and economic development needs.”

When Micheal Williams, a Republican and a self-described fiscal conservative, saw the plan, he was stunned.

“I thought, ‘Oh my God,’” Williams said. “I don’t know if they really thought this through.”

Williams is mayor of Union County, which never fully recovered from the loss of its textile industry when it shifted to Mexico after NAFTA. When Trump promised to bring back manufacturing jobs, voters there lined up behind him.

But last week when Trump released his budget, the message they got from the president was that they were on their own.

The bulk of Union County’s $42.8 million budget is funded by property taxes. With a population of less than 20,000 and a median income of $37,000, there’s no way to raise money for big projects. Some residents still rely on dial-up internet, and a rural elementary school needs a $500,000 upgrade to its water and septic system.

“Sometimes the public paints it with a broad brush, 'Oh they’re wasting money,'” Williams said. “Well, even if we cleaned up everything, we still couldn’t afford the infrastructure for broadband.”

Williams has applied to the Appalachian Regional Commission for a grant to help the school. The commission and a handful of others like it combine federal dollars with state, local and private money to boost economic development and job growth in the poorest regions of the country. All these commissions would be eliminated under the Trump plan.

Of $3.5 trillion in federal outlays in 2014, nearly $589 billion was in the form of grants directly to states, localities, individuals and nonprofits, according to research from Pew Charitable Trusts. In Tennessee, that added up to almost $2,000 per person.

“The federal budget is not just a national story, it really is a state-by-state story,” said Anne Stauffer, director of Pew’s Fiscal Federalism program. “When people think about the federal budget they don’t connect it to their lives or the services they get from their state or their city.”

Local and state politicians are already ramping up lobbying efforts to preserve popular programs, including $3 billion in community development block grants, and Congress is sure to protect many of them.

If federal dollars are lost, it's not apparent that states and municipalities could pick up the slack. Only 28 states are on track this year to meet revenue forecasts, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. Sluggish commodity prices are hurting budgets in the Midwest, sales tax revenue has disappointed, and levies paid by fossil-fuel companies are falling as energy prices drop.

Rural America in particular — where Trump got more than 60 percent of the vote — is struggling with high unemployment, slow economic growth and tepid home price appreciation. Three in four rural counties still haven’t fully recovered from the recession, according to the National Association of Counties.

Some had manufacturing or mining economies upended by economic shifts. Their tax base has been eroded and their workers don’t have the skills that modern employers want.

“People bought into Trump, particularly in these hardest-hit areas, on the idea that he’s going to create jobs,” said Chris Estes, president of the National Housing Conference. “This is not a budget for them.”

Federal grants have been a lifesaver for Gary, especially after Indiana state legislators rolled back local property taxes and cut the city’s budget in half. This year, Mayor Karen Freeman-Wilson is scrambling to close a $9 million deficit.

On May 30 2017 04:28 Mohdoo wrote:


Is this an attempt at pity? I don't understand and I don't think anyone is troubled by your history. It doesn't mean it makes sense for you to be rude or condescending. It is your attitude, not your beliefs, that makes it bad. Why do you feel like it is appropriate for you to turn it up a notch or however you see it, as soon as you get frustrated? Do you not see other people continue to talk with you without using all the heated terms you use?



I'm so glad you brought this up. Notice how he conveys the same ideas without being extremely charged? He doesn't piss people off, he just chats with people. Why do you always feel so compelled to make it emotional? Why does everything need to be a big fight, rather than a conversation? People disagreeing with you doesn't mean suddenly it is a good idea to be condescending or rude.

And the fact remains, you call out specific races significantly more than any other poster. That is a big problem and shouldn't be permitted to continue. Calling out races as a whole when criticizing racist tendencies is wrong.

I mean shit, just look at your PM to me. Your first instinct is to call me ignorant. Why in the world is that your instinct?

On May 30 2017 04:47 GreenHorizons wrote:
We aren't arguing about whether we should switch TL's colors to Brown and Red (which BTW would generate way more heated arguments), we're "discussing" whether black people should have their humanity respected and their constitutional rights protected and a great swath of folks are taking the position that it makes sense to complain about the oppressed people reacting poorly to their oppression than to think about and discuss the contributions to that oppression from the type of people complaining about their response.