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On May 17 2017 05:14 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2017 05:11 Amui wrote:On May 17 2017 05:03 Grumbels wrote:On May 17 2017 04:55 NewSunshine wrote:On May 17 2017 04:50 xDaunt wrote:On May 17 2017 04:41 Leporello wrote:On May 17 2017 04:35 xDaunt wrote:
The irony is that far more damage is being caused by all of these intelligence sources leaking shit to the press about what Trump may or may not have told the Russians than whatever Trump actually told the Russians. Hopefully the new FBI director has a pair and goes after the leakers. Sure, dude. It's totally cool that Trump gives Israeli intelligence to one of their most historical enemies, which is awash in anti-semitism. He's totally allowed, just like he's totally allowed to destroy all our alliances and run around the White House buck-naked. Somewhere, Ronald Reagan's corpse just vomited. You know it's true. The presumption underlying this post is astounding. You don't know exactly what was shared. Like I mentioned yesterday, there a ton of things that are classified that might be appropriate to share with Russia depending upon the circumstances. For all we know, this information shared could be required to be disclosed under the ICAO. Where is the rule or law that the US prohibited from sharing any intelligence with Russia? That's right: there isn't one for reasons that should be readily apparent to everyone. It's not the role of the intelligence community to make half-assed leaks that are designed purely to harm the president. If there really is something that the public needs to know about, then they should go full Snowden. But no, that's clearly not what this is about. This 100% politics. Of course, few liberals are going to admit that. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/world/middleeast/israel-trump-classified-intelligence-russia.html?smid=tw-shareThe information is believed to be pertaining to ISIS, but beyond that we don't know. Whether or not Russia deliberately uses it against Israel is beside the point, it's very sensitive information that was classified for a reason. The fact that it's out due to Trump's incompetence means Israel has little reason to trust us going forward, as do a lot of other countries. But make this about liberals, please. Your partisanship is showing. I don't think one incident will make it so that the USA-Israel relationship is fundamentally broken, that is a complete overreaction. If Trump can be damaged with his mistake here, then great, but let's not pretend like it is some sort of catastrophic act It will however lead to Israel withholding information(whether by ensuring it doesn't reach Trump or not sending it in the first place is irrelevant) or potentially even using Trump as unwitting plant of false info given that trump clearly can't keep his mouth shut when his ego is in play. It won't break the relationship, because they're most likely aware that Trump is retarded, but it will be at minimum temporarily damaging. The key part of this is that the NSA, CIA and other agencies cannot withhold the information from Trump. If he asks for it, they have to provide it. Our partners know that and won’t be able to trust us with information, even if they have complete faith in the CIA and NSA to keep the information secret.
well going by the NYT article that's posted a few posts up:
In private, three administration officials conceded that they could not publicly articulate their most compelling — and honest — defense of the president: that Mr. Trump, a hasty and indifferent reader of printed briefing materials, simply did not possess the interest or knowledge of the granular details of intelligence gathering to leak specific sources and methods of intelligence gathering that would do harm to United States allies.
So maybe provide a really huge wall of text with a small font. Might be the last line of defense
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On May 17 2017 05:03 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2017 05:01 NewSunshine wrote:On May 17 2017 04:58 xDaunt wrote:On May 17 2017 04:55 NewSunshine wrote:On May 17 2017 04:50 xDaunt wrote:On May 17 2017 04:41 Leporello wrote:On May 17 2017 04:35 xDaunt wrote:
The irony is that far more damage is being caused by all of these intelligence sources leaking shit to the press about what Trump may or may not have told the Russians than whatever Trump actually told the Russians. Hopefully the new FBI director has a pair and goes after the leakers. Sure, dude. It's totally cool that Trump gives Israeli intelligence to one of their most historical enemies, which is awash in anti-semitism. He's totally allowed, just like he's totally allowed to destroy all our alliances and run around the White House buck-naked. Somewhere, Ronald Reagan's corpse just vomited. You know it's true. The presumption underlying this post is astounding. You don't know exactly what was shared. Like I mentioned yesterday, there a ton of things that are classified that might be appropriate to share with Russia depending upon the circumstances. For all we know, this information shared could be required to be disclosed under the ICAO. Where is the rule or law that the US prohibited from sharing any intelligence with Russia? That's right: there isn't one for reasons that should be readily apparent to everyone. It's not the role of the intelligence community to make half-assed leaks that are designed purely to harm the president. If there really is something that the public needs to know about, then they should go full Snowden. But no, that's clearly not what this is about. This 100% politics. Of course, few liberals are going to admit that. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/world/middleeast/israel-trump-classified-intelligence-russia.html?smid=tw-shareThe information is believed to be pertaining to ISIS, but beyond that we don't know. Whether or not Russia deliberately uses it against Israel is beside the point, it's very sensitive information that was classified for a reason. The fact that it's out due to Trump's incompetence means Israel has little reason to trust us going forward, as do a lot of other countries. But make this about liberals, please. Your partisanship is showing. Is there one liberal around here who understands that I'm not the one making the argument that the information should be spun one way or another? Has this thread really fallen this far? And do you assume, just by me interpreting the information I have before me, that I am a liberal? I'm criticizing a grossly incompetent leader who deserves it by every measure I can think of, that doesn't make me a Democratic shill. You're the one projecting here. The situation looks awful no matter how you want to spin it, and you refuse to acknowledge it. There's nothing baseless about my presumption. Here are you are presuming that Trump's disclosure of the intelligence is another act of gross incompetence. It's pretty clear to me what you're doing. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck....
I hate to break it to you, but I am as independent as it gets. I've stayed away from politics for a long time because of my genuine disgust with where partisan politics have gotten this country. If you genuinely think I'm some "filthy liberal" then that's probably how you see everyone else who disagrees with you. I support what's sensible, and right now this administration scares me. You took a step back from this thread for a time, and I think it was for good reason. Perhaps you should do it again.
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On May 17 2017 05:14 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2017 05:11 Amui wrote:On May 17 2017 05:03 Grumbels wrote:On May 17 2017 04:55 NewSunshine wrote:On May 17 2017 04:50 xDaunt wrote:On May 17 2017 04:41 Leporello wrote:On May 17 2017 04:35 xDaunt wrote:
The irony is that far more damage is being caused by all of these intelligence sources leaking shit to the press about what Trump may or may not have told the Russians than whatever Trump actually told the Russians. Hopefully the new FBI director has a pair and goes after the leakers. Sure, dude. It's totally cool that Trump gives Israeli intelligence to one of their most historical enemies, which is awash in anti-semitism. He's totally allowed, just like he's totally allowed to destroy all our alliances and run around the White House buck-naked. Somewhere, Ronald Reagan's corpse just vomited. You know it's true. The presumption underlying this post is astounding. You don't know exactly what was shared. Like I mentioned yesterday, there a ton of things that are classified that might be appropriate to share with Russia depending upon the circumstances. For all we know, this information shared could be required to be disclosed under the ICAO. Where is the rule or law that the US prohibited from sharing any intelligence with Russia? That's right: there isn't one for reasons that should be readily apparent to everyone. It's not the role of the intelligence community to make half-assed leaks that are designed purely to harm the president. If there really is something that the public needs to know about, then they should go full Snowden. But no, that's clearly not what this is about. This 100% politics. Of course, few liberals are going to admit that. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/world/middleeast/israel-trump-classified-intelligence-russia.html?smid=tw-shareThe information is believed to be pertaining to ISIS, but beyond that we don't know. Whether or not Russia deliberately uses it against Israel is beside the point, it's very sensitive information that was classified for a reason. The fact that it's out due to Trump's incompetence means Israel has little reason to trust us going forward, as do a lot of other countries. But make this about liberals, please. Your partisanship is showing. I don't think one incident will make it so that the USA-Israel relationship is fundamentally broken, that is a complete overreaction. If Trump can be damaged with his mistake here, then great, but let's not pretend like it is some sort of catastrophic act It will however lead to Israel withholding information(whether by ensuring it doesn't reach Trump or not sending it in the first place is irrelevant) or potentially even using Trump as unwitting plant of false info given that trump clearly can't keep his mouth shut when his ego is in play. It won't break the relationship, because they're most likely aware that Trump is retarded, but it will be at minimum temporarily damaging. The key part of this is that the NSA, CIA and other agencies cannot withhold the information from Trump. If he asks for it, they have to provide it. Our partners know that and won’t be able to trust us with information, even if they have complete faith in the CIA and NSA to keep the information secret.
Fortunately Trump is to stupid to ask for specific bits of information
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On May 17 2017 05:16 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2017 05:11 Mohdoo wrote:On May 17 2017 05:08 xDaunt wrote:On May 17 2017 05:05 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:On May 17 2017 05:03 xDaunt wrote:On May 17 2017 05:01 NewSunshine wrote:On May 17 2017 04:58 xDaunt wrote:On May 17 2017 04:55 NewSunshine wrote:On May 17 2017 04:50 xDaunt wrote:On May 17 2017 04:41 Leporello wrote:
[quote]
Sure, dude. It's totally cool that Trump gives Israeli intelligence to one of their most historical enemies, which is awash in anti-semitism. He's totally allowed, just like he's totally allowed to destroy all our alliances and run around the White House buck-naked.
Somewhere, Ronald Reagan's corpse just vomited. You know it's true. The presumption underlying this post is astounding. You don't know exactly what was shared. Like I mentioned yesterday, there a ton of things that are classified that might be appropriate to share with Russia depending upon the circumstances. For all we know, this information shared could be required to be disclosed under the ICAO. Where is the rule or law that the US prohibited from sharing any intelligence with Russia? That's right: there isn't one for reasons that should be readily apparent to everyone. It's not the role of the intelligence community to make half-assed leaks that are designed purely to harm the president. If there really is something that the public needs to know about, then they should go full Snowden. But no, that's clearly not what this is about. This 100% politics. Of course, few liberals are going to admit that. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/world/middleeast/israel-trump-classified-intelligence-russia.html?smid=tw-shareThe information is believed to be pertaining to ISIS, but beyond that we don't know. Whether or not Russia deliberately uses it against Israel is beside the point, it's very sensitive information that was classified for a reason. The fact that it's out due to Trump's incompetence means Israel has little reason to trust us going forward, as do a lot of other countries. But make this about liberals, please. Your partisanship is showing. Is there one liberal around here who understands that I'm not the one making the argument that the information should be spun one way or another? Has this thread really fallen this far? And do you assume, just by me interpreting the information I have before me, that I am a liberal? I'm criticizing a grossly incompetent leader who deserves it by every measure I can think of, that doesn't make me a Democratic shill. You're the one projecting here. The situation looks awful no matter how you want to spin it, and you refuse to acknowledge it. There's nothing baseless about my presumption. Here are you are presuming that Trump's disclosure of the intelligence is another act of gross incompetence. It's pretty clear to me what you're doing. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck.... enlighten me please, what else could it be? In a vacuum, what would be wrong with Trump sharing information with Russia that Russia was about to be attacked by ISIS? It would give away methods and routes of intelligence. Russia is deeply invested in knowing the inner workings of Israeli intelligence. Having little clues here and there, in addition to what Russia already has, would likely allow Russia to confirm/deny underlying assumptions and to build a more complete model as to Israel's capabilities, current pursuits, positioning, etc. Not necessarily. It depends upon what Trump told Russia. Saying "we are hearing that Russia is going to be attacked" is very different than "Russia is going to be attacked and this is how we know it [and what follows is a full disclosure of the source of the intelligence]." This my big problem with these leaks. We don't know what was shared, so all that's left is innuendo. And it's the innuendo that is being reported on and seized by the public. Regardless of what Trump actually told the Russians, why would any intelligence agency share anything with the US when it can see that our intelligence apparatus is leaking like a sieve?
I think that "Israel knows Russia will be attacked at the location _____" is enough for Israel to be pissed. At the end of the day, if Israel didn't want Russia to know, that's where it ends. Sharing intelligence not intended for sharing is unequivocally incorrect.
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On May 17 2017 05:16 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2017 05:11 Mohdoo wrote:On May 17 2017 05:08 xDaunt wrote:On May 17 2017 05:05 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:On May 17 2017 05:03 xDaunt wrote:On May 17 2017 05:01 NewSunshine wrote:On May 17 2017 04:58 xDaunt wrote:On May 17 2017 04:55 NewSunshine wrote:On May 17 2017 04:50 xDaunt wrote:On May 17 2017 04:41 Leporello wrote:
[quote]
Sure, dude. It's totally cool that Trump gives Israeli intelligence to one of their most historical enemies, which is awash in anti-semitism. He's totally allowed, just like he's totally allowed to destroy all our alliances and run around the White House buck-naked.
Somewhere, Ronald Reagan's corpse just vomited. You know it's true. The presumption underlying this post is astounding. You don't know exactly what was shared. Like I mentioned yesterday, there a ton of things that are classified that might be appropriate to share with Russia depending upon the circumstances. For all we know, this information shared could be required to be disclosed under the ICAO. Where is the rule or law that the US prohibited from sharing any intelligence with Russia? That's right: there isn't one for reasons that should be readily apparent to everyone. It's not the role of the intelligence community to make half-assed leaks that are designed purely to harm the president. If there really is something that the public needs to know about, then they should go full Snowden. But no, that's clearly not what this is about. This 100% politics. Of course, few liberals are going to admit that. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/world/middleeast/israel-trump-classified-intelligence-russia.html?smid=tw-shareThe information is believed to be pertaining to ISIS, but beyond that we don't know. Whether or not Russia deliberately uses it against Israel is beside the point, it's very sensitive information that was classified for a reason. The fact that it's out due to Trump's incompetence means Israel has little reason to trust us going forward, as do a lot of other countries. But make this about liberals, please. Your partisanship is showing. Is there one liberal around here who understands that I'm not the one making the argument that the information should be spun one way or another? Has this thread really fallen this far? And do you assume, just by me interpreting the information I have before me, that I am a liberal? I'm criticizing a grossly incompetent leader who deserves it by every measure I can think of, that doesn't make me a Democratic shill. You're the one projecting here. The situation looks awful no matter how you want to spin it, and you refuse to acknowledge it. There's nothing baseless about my presumption. Here are you are presuming that Trump's disclosure of the intelligence is another act of gross incompetence. It's pretty clear to me what you're doing. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck.... enlighten me please, what else could it be? In a vacuum, what would be wrong with Trump sharing information with Russia that Russia was about to be attacked by ISIS? It would give away methods and routes of intelligence. Russia is deeply invested in knowing the inner workings of Israeli intelligence. Having little clues here and there, in addition to what Russia already has, would likely allow Russia to confirm/deny underlying assumptions and to build a more complete model as to Israel's capabilities, current pursuits, positioning, etc. Not necessarily. It depends upon what Trump told Russia. Saying "we are hearing that Russia is going to be attacked" is very different than "Russia is going to be attacked and this is how we know it [and what follows is a full disclosure of the source of the intelligence]." This my big problem with these leaks. We don't know what was shared, so all that's left is innuendo. And it's the innuendo that is being reported on and seized by the public. Regardless of what Trump actually told the Russians, why would any intelligence agency share anything with the US when it can see that our intelligence apparatus is leaking like a sieve?
Do you realize by now that the leaks are just a symptom, and that Trump is the cause? The frequency of leaks with this administration is absolutely incredible. Can you see why that is?
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On May 17 2017 04:58 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2017 04:55 NewSunshine wrote:On May 17 2017 04:50 xDaunt wrote:On May 17 2017 04:41 Leporello wrote:On May 17 2017 04:35 xDaunt wrote:
The irony is that far more damage is being caused by all of these intelligence sources leaking shit to the press about what Trump may or may not have told the Russians than whatever Trump actually told the Russians. Hopefully the new FBI director has a pair and goes after the leakers. Sure, dude. It's totally cool that Trump gives Israeli intelligence to one of their most historical enemies, which is awash in anti-semitism. He's totally allowed, just like he's totally allowed to destroy all our alliances and run around the White House buck-naked. Somewhere, Ronald Reagan's corpse just vomited. You know it's true. The presumption underlying this post is astounding. You don't know exactly what was shared. Like I mentioned yesterday, there a ton of things that are classified that might be appropriate to share with Russia depending upon the circumstances. For all we know, this information shared could be required to be disclosed under the ICAO. Where is the rule or law that the US prohibited from sharing any intelligence with Russia? That's right: there isn't one for reasons that should be readily apparent to everyone. It's not the role of the intelligence community to make half-assed leaks that are designed purely to harm the president. If there really is something that the public needs to know about, then they should go full Snowden. But no, that's clearly not what this is about. This 100% politics. Of course, few liberals are going to admit that. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/world/middleeast/israel-trump-classified-intelligence-russia.html?smid=tw-shareThe information is believed to be pertaining to ISIS, but beyond that we don't know. Whether or not Russia deliberately uses it against Israel is beside the point, it's very sensitive information that was classified for a reason. The fact that it's out due to Trump's incompetence means Israel has little reason to trust us going forward, as do a lot of other countries. But make this about liberals, please. Your partisanship is showing. Is there one liberal around here who understands that I'm not the one making the argument that the information should be spun one way or another? Has this thread really fallen this far?
I think you know the answer to that question. It's been going on for five months now. It's getting really old. I'm not spinning this, you are! I'm not being partisan about this, you are! Trump's actually bad enough that you don't have to make up and spin facts to attack him. Selective, anonymous leaking is actually bad enough that you don't have to care who is in the White House to attack it.
I started out ambivalent, but now I think Trump really will fire many in his administration and hold-overs because no CEO can tolerate this junk for long.
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On May 17 2017 04:12 pmh wrote:
Day after day (according to the media) trump commits treason,violates the constitution,has conflicts of interests,is obstruction the work of the justice department.
How can this man still be in office? The usa is starting to look more like a banana republic by the day.
Like the American media they write all these horrible things about him all the time,yet he still does not get impeached. That can only mean that the American democracy is rotten to the bone. That is the only logical conclusion based on the picture the media is picturing us.
are you actually asking how he can still be in office?
I'm guessing it's a rhetorical questions (and/or someone has already answered it); but if not I'll give an answer.
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On May 17 2017 05:20 Tachion wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2017 05:16 xDaunt wrote:On May 17 2017 05:11 Mohdoo wrote:On May 17 2017 05:08 xDaunt wrote:On May 17 2017 05:05 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:On May 17 2017 05:03 xDaunt wrote:On May 17 2017 05:01 NewSunshine wrote:On May 17 2017 04:58 xDaunt wrote:On May 17 2017 04:55 NewSunshine wrote:On May 17 2017 04:50 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
The presumption underlying this post is astounding. You don't know exactly what was shared. Like I mentioned yesterday, there a ton of things that are classified that might be appropriate to share with Russia depending upon the circumstances. For all we know, this information shared could be required to be disclosed under the ICAO. Where is the rule or law that the US prohibited from sharing any intelligence with Russia? That's right: there isn't one for reasons that should be readily apparent to everyone. It's not the role of the intelligence community to make half-assed leaks that are designed purely to harm the president. If there really is something that the public needs to know about, then they should go full Snowden. But no, that's clearly not what this is about. This 100% politics. Of course, few liberals are going to admit that. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/world/middleeast/israel-trump-classified-intelligence-russia.html?smid=tw-shareThe information is believed to be pertaining to ISIS, but beyond that we don't know. Whether or not Russia deliberately uses it against Israel is beside the point, it's very sensitive information that was classified for a reason. The fact that it's out due to Trump's incompetence means Israel has little reason to trust us going forward, as do a lot of other countries. But make this about liberals, please. Your partisanship is showing. Is there one liberal around here who understands that I'm not the one making the argument that the information should be spun one way or another? Has this thread really fallen this far? And do you assume, just by me interpreting the information I have before me, that I am a liberal? I'm criticizing a grossly incompetent leader who deserves it by every measure I can think of, that doesn't make me a Democratic shill. You're the one projecting here. The situation looks awful no matter how you want to spin it, and you refuse to acknowledge it. There's nothing baseless about my presumption. Here are you are presuming that Trump's disclosure of the intelligence is another act of gross incompetence. It's pretty clear to me what you're doing. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck.... enlighten me please, what else could it be? In a vacuum, what would be wrong with Trump sharing information with Russia that Russia was about to be attacked by ISIS? It would give away methods and routes of intelligence. Russia is deeply invested in knowing the inner workings of Israeli intelligence. Having little clues here and there, in addition to what Russia already has, would likely allow Russia to confirm/deny underlying assumptions and to build a more complete model as to Israel's capabilities, current pursuits, positioning, etc. Not necessarily. It depends upon what Trump told Russia. Saying "we are hearing that Russia is going to be attacked" is very different than "Russia is going to be attacked and this is how we know it [and what follows is a full disclosure of the source of the intelligence]." This my big problem with these leaks. We don't know what was shared, so all that's left is innuendo. And it's the innuendo that is being reported on and seized by the public. Regardless of what Trump actually told the Russians, why would any intelligence agency share anything with the US when it can see that our intelligence apparatus is leaking like a sieve? Do you realize by now that the leaks are just a symptom, and that Trump is the cause? The frequency of leaks with this administration is absolutely incredible. Can you see why that is?
What has Trump actually done to warrant the leaks? What specific leak has been justified? Which leak has divulged information showing that Trump should be impeached? I keep waiting for something significant to come out, but it hasn't happened. For that reason, I can't help but think that this is all politics.
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On May 17 2017 05:20 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2017 04:58 xDaunt wrote:On May 17 2017 04:55 NewSunshine wrote:On May 17 2017 04:50 xDaunt wrote:On May 17 2017 04:41 Leporello wrote:On May 17 2017 04:35 xDaunt wrote:
The irony is that far more damage is being caused by all of these intelligence sources leaking shit to the press about what Trump may or may not have told the Russians than whatever Trump actually told the Russians. Hopefully the new FBI director has a pair and goes after the leakers. Sure, dude. It's totally cool that Trump gives Israeli intelligence to one of their most historical enemies, which is awash in anti-semitism. He's totally allowed, just like he's totally allowed to destroy all our alliances and run around the White House buck-naked. Somewhere, Ronald Reagan's corpse just vomited. You know it's true. The presumption underlying this post is astounding. You don't know exactly what was shared. Like I mentioned yesterday, there a ton of things that are classified that might be appropriate to share with Russia depending upon the circumstances. For all we know, this information shared could be required to be disclosed under the ICAO. Where is the rule or law that the US prohibited from sharing any intelligence with Russia? That's right: there isn't one for reasons that should be readily apparent to everyone. It's not the role of the intelligence community to make half-assed leaks that are designed purely to harm the president. If there really is something that the public needs to know about, then they should go full Snowden. But no, that's clearly not what this is about. This 100% politics. Of course, few liberals are going to admit that. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/world/middleeast/israel-trump-classified-intelligence-russia.html?smid=tw-shareThe information is believed to be pertaining to ISIS, but beyond that we don't know. Whether or not Russia deliberately uses it against Israel is beside the point, it's very sensitive information that was classified for a reason. The fact that it's out due to Trump's incompetence means Israel has little reason to trust us going forward, as do a lot of other countries. But make this about liberals, please. Your partisanship is showing. Is there one liberal around here who understands that I'm not the one making the argument that the information should be spun one way or another? Has this thread really fallen this far? I think you know the answer to that question. It's been going on for five months now. It's getting really old. I'm not spinning this, you are! I'm not being partisan about this, you are! Trump's actually bad enough that you don't have to make up and spin facts to attack him. Selective, anonymous leaking is actually bad enough that you don't have to care who is in the White House to attack it. I started out ambivalent, but now I think Trump really will fire many in his administration and hold-overs because no CEO can tolerate this junk for long.
I will be the first to admin, I don’t like Trump. I don’t like the GOP and want them out of office ASAP so they don’t take away my families ability to obtain healthcare. I think Trump is dangerous and I dread the concept that he might ramp up military action in the middle east that would result in my brother being deployed again.
There is literally no reason for me to cheer for this man and desire him to remain in office. I accept George Bush, even though I didn’t agree with him. I never felt endangered by him.
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On May 17 2017 05:25 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2017 05:20 Tachion wrote:On May 17 2017 05:16 xDaunt wrote:On May 17 2017 05:11 Mohdoo wrote:On May 17 2017 05:08 xDaunt wrote:On May 17 2017 05:05 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:On May 17 2017 05:03 xDaunt wrote:On May 17 2017 05:01 NewSunshine wrote:On May 17 2017 04:58 xDaunt wrote:On May 17 2017 04:55 NewSunshine wrote:[quote] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/world/middleeast/israel-trump-classified-intelligence-russia.html?smid=tw-shareThe information is believed to be pertaining to ISIS, but beyond that we don't know. Whether or not Russia deliberately uses it against Israel is beside the point, it's very sensitive information that was classified for a reason. The fact that it's out due to Trump's incompetence means Israel has little reason to trust us going forward, as do a lot of other countries. But make this about liberals, please. Your partisanship is showing. Is there one liberal around here who understands that I'm not the one making the argument that the information should be spun one way or another? Has this thread really fallen this far? And do you assume, just by me interpreting the information I have before me, that I am a liberal? I'm criticizing a grossly incompetent leader who deserves it by every measure I can think of, that doesn't make me a Democratic shill. You're the one projecting here. The situation looks awful no matter how you want to spin it, and you refuse to acknowledge it. There's nothing baseless about my presumption. Here are you are presuming that Trump's disclosure of the intelligence is another act of gross incompetence. It's pretty clear to me what you're doing. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck.... enlighten me please, what else could it be? In a vacuum, what would be wrong with Trump sharing information with Russia that Russia was about to be attacked by ISIS? It would give away methods and routes of intelligence. Russia is deeply invested in knowing the inner workings of Israeli intelligence. Having little clues here and there, in addition to what Russia already has, would likely allow Russia to confirm/deny underlying assumptions and to build a more complete model as to Israel's capabilities, current pursuits, positioning, etc. Not necessarily. It depends upon what Trump told Russia. Saying "we are hearing that Russia is going to be attacked" is very different than "Russia is going to be attacked and this is how we know it [and what follows is a full disclosure of the source of the intelligence]." This my big problem with these leaks. We don't know what was shared, so all that's left is innuendo. And it's the innuendo that is being reported on and seized by the public. Regardless of what Trump actually told the Russians, why would any intelligence agency share anything with the US when it can see that our intelligence apparatus is leaking like a sieve? Do you realize by now that the leaks are just a symptom, and that Trump is the cause? The frequency of leaks with this administration is absolutely incredible. Can you see why that is? What has Trump actually done to warrant the leaks? What specific leak has been justified? Which leak has divulged information showing that Trump should be impeached? I keep waiting for something significant to come out, but it hasn't happened. For that reason, I can't help but think that this is all politics.
On May 17 2017 02:12 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +I tend to take these stories about the President with a grain of salt. We have seen key details of a number of salacious stories retracted within 48 hours. The media hates the President so much that they’ll run a negative story about him without very much provocation. Anti-Trump sources embedded within the administration in the career civil service, etc. will leak to the press and confirmation bias sets in.
What sets this story apart for me, at least, is that I know one of the sources. And the source is solidly supportive of President Trump, or at least has been and was during Campaign 2016. But the President will not take any internal criticism, no matter how politely it is given. He does not want advice, cannot be corrected, and is too insecure to see any constructive feedback as anything other than an attack.
So some of the sources are left with no other option but to go to the media, leak the story, and hope that the intense blowback gives the President a swift kick in the butt. Perhaps then he will recognize he screwed up. The President cares vastly more about what the press says than what his advisers say. That is a real problem and one his advisers are having to recognize and use, even if it causes messy stories to get outside the White House perimeter.
I am told that what the President did is actually far worse than what is being reported. The President does not seem to realize or appreciate that his bragging can undermine relationships with our allies and with human intelligence sources. He also does not seem to appreciate that his loose lips can get valuable assets in the field killed.
You can call these sources disloyal, traitors, or whatever you want. But please ask yourself a question — if the President, through inexperience and ignorance, is jeopardizing our national security and will not take advice or corrective action, what other means are available to get the President to listen and recognize the error of his ways?
This is a real problem and I treat this story very seriously because I know just how credible, competent, and serious — as well as seriously pro-Trump, at least one of the sources is. http://theresurgent.com/i-know-one-of-the-sources/
From someone who knows the leaker.
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On May 17 2017 05:20 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2017 04:58 xDaunt wrote:On May 17 2017 04:55 NewSunshine wrote:On May 17 2017 04:50 xDaunt wrote:On May 17 2017 04:41 Leporello wrote:On May 17 2017 04:35 xDaunt wrote:
The irony is that far more damage is being caused by all of these intelligence sources leaking shit to the press about what Trump may or may not have told the Russians than whatever Trump actually told the Russians. Hopefully the new FBI director has a pair and goes after the leakers. Sure, dude. It's totally cool that Trump gives Israeli intelligence to one of their most historical enemies, which is awash in anti-semitism. He's totally allowed, just like he's totally allowed to destroy all our alliances and run around the White House buck-naked. Somewhere, Ronald Reagan's corpse just vomited. You know it's true. The presumption underlying this post is astounding. You don't know exactly what was shared. Like I mentioned yesterday, there a ton of things that are classified that might be appropriate to share with Russia depending upon the circumstances. For all we know, this information shared could be required to be disclosed under the ICAO. Where is the rule or law that the US prohibited from sharing any intelligence with Russia? That's right: there isn't one for reasons that should be readily apparent to everyone. It's not the role of the intelligence community to make half-assed leaks that are designed purely to harm the president. If there really is something that the public needs to know about, then they should go full Snowden. But no, that's clearly not what this is about. This 100% politics. Of course, few liberals are going to admit that. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/world/middleeast/israel-trump-classified-intelligence-russia.html?smid=tw-shareThe information is believed to be pertaining to ISIS, but beyond that we don't know. Whether or not Russia deliberately uses it against Israel is beside the point, it's very sensitive information that was classified for a reason. The fact that it's out due to Trump's incompetence means Israel has little reason to trust us going forward, as do a lot of other countries. But make this about liberals, please. Your partisanship is showing. Is there one liberal around here who understands that I'm not the one making the argument that the information should be spun one way or another? Has this thread really fallen this far? I think you know the answer to that question. It's been going on for five months now. It's getting really old. I'm not spinning this, you are! I'm not being partisan about this, you are! Trump's actually bad enough that you don't have to make up and spin facts to attack him. Selective, anonymous leaking is actually bad enough that you don't have to care who is in the White House to attack it. I started out ambivalent, but now I think Trump really will fire many in his administration and hold-overs because no CEO can tolerate this junk for long.
no country shoudl have to tolerate a leader this incompetent either; and yet here we are.
it certainly does seem true trump will fire a lot of people though; no great surprise.
the board of directors needs to step up and fire this ceo already.
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On May 17 2017 05:26 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2017 05:25 xDaunt wrote:On May 17 2017 05:20 Tachion wrote:On May 17 2017 05:16 xDaunt wrote:On May 17 2017 05:11 Mohdoo wrote:On May 17 2017 05:08 xDaunt wrote:On May 17 2017 05:05 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:On May 17 2017 05:03 xDaunt wrote:On May 17 2017 05:01 NewSunshine wrote:On May 17 2017 04:58 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
Is there one liberal around here who understands that I'm not the one making the argument that the information should be spun one way or another? Has this thread really fallen this far? And do you assume, just by me interpreting the information I have before me, that I am a liberal? I'm criticizing a grossly incompetent leader who deserves it by every measure I can think of, that doesn't make me a Democratic shill. You're the one projecting here. The situation looks awful no matter how you want to spin it, and you refuse to acknowledge it. There's nothing baseless about my presumption. Here are you are presuming that Trump's disclosure of the intelligence is another act of gross incompetence. It's pretty clear to me what you're doing. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck.... enlighten me please, what else could it be? In a vacuum, what would be wrong with Trump sharing information with Russia that Russia was about to be attacked by ISIS? It would give away methods and routes of intelligence. Russia is deeply invested in knowing the inner workings of Israeli intelligence. Having little clues here and there, in addition to what Russia already has, would likely allow Russia to confirm/deny underlying assumptions and to build a more complete model as to Israel's capabilities, current pursuits, positioning, etc. Not necessarily. It depends upon what Trump told Russia. Saying "we are hearing that Russia is going to be attacked" is very different than "Russia is going to be attacked and this is how we know it [and what follows is a full disclosure of the source of the intelligence]." This my big problem with these leaks. We don't know what was shared, so all that's left is innuendo. And it's the innuendo that is being reported on and seized by the public. Regardless of what Trump actually told the Russians, why would any intelligence agency share anything with the US when it can see that our intelligence apparatus is leaking like a sieve? Do you realize by now that the leaks are just a symptom, and that Trump is the cause? The frequency of leaks with this administration is absolutely incredible. Can you see why that is? What has Trump actually done to warrant the leaks? What specific leak has been justified? Which leak has divulged information showing that Trump should be impeached? I keep waiting for something significant to come out, but it hasn't happened. For that reason, I can't help but think that this is all politics. Show nested quote +On May 17 2017 02:12 Nevuk wrote:I tend to take these stories about the President with a grain of salt. We have seen key details of a number of salacious stories retracted within 48 hours. The media hates the President so much that they’ll run a negative story about him without very much provocation. Anti-Trump sources embedded within the administration in the career civil service, etc. will leak to the press and confirmation bias sets in.
What sets this story apart for me, at least, is that I know one of the sources. And the source is solidly supportive of President Trump, or at least has been and was during Campaign 2016. But the President will not take any internal criticism, no matter how politely it is given. He does not want advice, cannot be corrected, and is too insecure to see any constructive feedback as anything other than an attack.
So some of the sources are left with no other option but to go to the media, leak the story, and hope that the intense blowback gives the President a swift kick in the butt. Perhaps then he will recognize he screwed up. The President cares vastly more about what the press says than what his advisers say. That is a real problem and one his advisers are having to recognize and use, even if it causes messy stories to get outside the White House perimeter.
I am told that what the President did is actually far worse than what is being reported. The President does not seem to realize or appreciate that his bragging can undermine relationships with our allies and with human intelligence sources. He also does not seem to appreciate that his loose lips can get valuable assets in the field killed.
You can call these sources disloyal, traitors, or whatever you want. But please ask yourself a question — if the President, through inexperience and ignorance, is jeopardizing our national security and will not take advice or corrective action, what other means are available to get the President to listen and recognize the error of his ways?
This is a real problem and I treat this story very seriously because I know just how credible, competent, and serious — as well as seriously pro-Trump, at least one of the sources is. http://theresurgent.com/i-know-one-of-the-sources/ From someone who knows the leaker.
So we have more hearsay from a nevertrumper. Great. And all of it could be true. Who knows. That's the problem.
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On May 17 2017 05:31 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2017 05:26 Plansix wrote:On May 17 2017 05:25 xDaunt wrote:On May 17 2017 05:20 Tachion wrote:On May 17 2017 05:16 xDaunt wrote:On May 17 2017 05:11 Mohdoo wrote:On May 17 2017 05:08 xDaunt wrote:On May 17 2017 05:05 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:On May 17 2017 05:03 xDaunt wrote:On May 17 2017 05:01 NewSunshine wrote:
[quote]
And do you assume, just by me interpreting the information I have before me, that I am a liberal? I'm criticizing a grossly incompetent leader who deserves it by every measure I can think of, that doesn't make me a Democratic shill. You're the one projecting here. The situation looks awful no matter how you want to spin it, and you refuse to acknowledge it. There's nothing baseless about my presumption. Here are you are presuming that Trump's disclosure of the intelligence is another act of gross incompetence. It's pretty clear to me what you're doing. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck.... enlighten me please, what else could it be? In a vacuum, what would be wrong with Trump sharing information with Russia that Russia was about to be attacked by ISIS? It would give away methods and routes of intelligence. Russia is deeply invested in knowing the inner workings of Israeli intelligence. Having little clues here and there, in addition to what Russia already has, would likely allow Russia to confirm/deny underlying assumptions and to build a more complete model as to Israel's capabilities, current pursuits, positioning, etc. Not necessarily. It depends upon what Trump told Russia. Saying "we are hearing that Russia is going to be attacked" is very different than "Russia is going to be attacked and this is how we know it [and what follows is a full disclosure of the source of the intelligence]." This my big problem with these leaks. We don't know what was shared, so all that's left is innuendo. And it's the innuendo that is being reported on and seized by the public. Regardless of what Trump actually told the Russians, why would any intelligence agency share anything with the US when it can see that our intelligence apparatus is leaking like a sieve? Do you realize by now that the leaks are just a symptom, and that Trump is the cause? The frequency of leaks with this administration is absolutely incredible. Can you see why that is? What has Trump actually done to warrant the leaks? What specific leak has been justified? Which leak has divulged information showing that Trump should be impeached? I keep waiting for something significant to come out, but it hasn't happened. For that reason, I can't help but think that this is all politics. On May 17 2017 02:12 Nevuk wrote:I tend to take these stories about the President with a grain of salt. We have seen key details of a number of salacious stories retracted within 48 hours. The media hates the President so much that they’ll run a negative story about him without very much provocation. Anti-Trump sources embedded within the administration in the career civil service, etc. will leak to the press and confirmation bias sets in.
What sets this story apart for me, at least, is that I know one of the sources. And the source is solidly supportive of President Trump, or at least has been and was during Campaign 2016. But the President will not take any internal criticism, no matter how politely it is given. He does not want advice, cannot be corrected, and is too insecure to see any constructive feedback as anything other than an attack.
So some of the sources are left with no other option but to go to the media, leak the story, and hope that the intense blowback gives the President a swift kick in the butt. Perhaps then he will recognize he screwed up. The President cares vastly more about what the press says than what his advisers say. That is a real problem and one his advisers are having to recognize and use, even if it causes messy stories to get outside the White House perimeter.
I am told that what the President did is actually far worse than what is being reported. The President does not seem to realize or appreciate that his bragging can undermine relationships with our allies and with human intelligence sources. He also does not seem to appreciate that his loose lips can get valuable assets in the field killed.
You can call these sources disloyal, traitors, or whatever you want. But please ask yourself a question — if the President, through inexperience and ignorance, is jeopardizing our national security and will not take advice or corrective action, what other means are available to get the President to listen and recognize the error of his ways?
This is a real problem and I treat this story very seriously because I know just how credible, competent, and serious — as well as seriously pro-Trump, at least one of the sources is. http://theresurgent.com/i-know-one-of-the-sources/ From someone who knows the leaker. So we have more hearsay from a nevertrumper. Great. And all of it could be true. Who knows. That's the problem.
XDaunt, you are free you take whatever information we provide you and view it through whatever lens suits you. Don’t come in here demanding information and then claim that it all doesn’t meet your ever shifting standards of evidence. If you want to have a discussion, have one like an adult. Not a teenager being told something he doesn’t’ want to hear.
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On May 17 2017 05:08 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2017 05:05 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:On May 17 2017 05:03 xDaunt wrote:On May 17 2017 05:01 NewSunshine wrote:On May 17 2017 04:58 xDaunt wrote:On May 17 2017 04:55 NewSunshine wrote:On May 17 2017 04:50 xDaunt wrote:On May 17 2017 04:41 Leporello wrote:On May 17 2017 04:35 xDaunt wrote:
The irony is that far more damage is being caused by all of these intelligence sources leaking shit to the press about what Trump may or may not have told the Russians than whatever Trump actually told the Russians. Hopefully the new FBI director has a pair and goes after the leakers. Sure, dude. It's totally cool that Trump gives Israeli intelligence to one of their most historical enemies, which is awash in anti-semitism. He's totally allowed, just like he's totally allowed to destroy all our alliances and run around the White House buck-naked. Somewhere, Ronald Reagan's corpse just vomited. You know it's true. The presumption underlying this post is astounding. You don't know exactly what was shared. Like I mentioned yesterday, there a ton of things that are classified that might be appropriate to share with Russia depending upon the circumstances. For all we know, this information shared could be required to be disclosed under the ICAO. Where is the rule or law that the US prohibited from sharing any intelligence with Russia? That's right: there isn't one for reasons that should be readily apparent to everyone. It's not the role of the intelligence community to make half-assed leaks that are designed purely to harm the president. If there really is something that the public needs to know about, then they should go full Snowden. But no, that's clearly not what this is about. This 100% politics. Of course, few liberals are going to admit that. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/world/middleeast/israel-trump-classified-intelligence-russia.html?smid=tw-shareThe information is believed to be pertaining to ISIS, but beyond that we don't know. Whether or not Russia deliberately uses it against Israel is beside the point, it's very sensitive information that was classified for a reason. The fact that it's out due to Trump's incompetence means Israel has little reason to trust us going forward, as do a lot of other countries. But make this about liberals, please. Your partisanship is showing. Is there one liberal around here who understands that I'm not the one making the argument that the information should be spun one way or another? Has this thread really fallen this far? And do you assume, just by me interpreting the information I have before me, that I am a liberal? I'm criticizing a grossly incompetent leader who deserves it by every measure I can think of, that doesn't make me a Democratic shill. You're the one projecting here. The situation looks awful no matter how you want to spin it, and you refuse to acknowledge it. There's nothing baseless about my presumption. Here are you are presuming that Trump's disclosure of the intelligence is another act of gross incompetence. It's pretty clear to me what you're doing. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck.... enlighten me please, what else could it be? In a vacuum, what would be wrong with Trump sharing information with Russia that Russia was about to be attacked by ISIS?
I guess they called the NSA and CIA directors to give them a heads up on the breach because there was nothing wrong with it, right?
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The fangs from the media and liberals are ready at every moment to clinch and sustain negative coverage of Trump. Even if you subtract all of that venom and do your absolute best to give this president a fair shake, I see someone who is dishonest and detached from reality.
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On May 17 2017 05:25 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2017 05:20 Tachion wrote:On May 17 2017 05:16 xDaunt wrote:On May 17 2017 05:11 Mohdoo wrote:On May 17 2017 05:08 xDaunt wrote:On May 17 2017 05:05 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:On May 17 2017 05:03 xDaunt wrote:On May 17 2017 05:01 NewSunshine wrote:On May 17 2017 04:58 xDaunt wrote:On May 17 2017 04:55 NewSunshine wrote:[quote] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/world/middleeast/israel-trump-classified-intelligence-russia.html?smid=tw-shareThe information is believed to be pertaining to ISIS, but beyond that we don't know. Whether or not Russia deliberately uses it against Israel is beside the point, it's very sensitive information that was classified for a reason. The fact that it's out due to Trump's incompetence means Israel has little reason to trust us going forward, as do a lot of other countries. But make this about liberals, please. Your partisanship is showing. Is there one liberal around here who understands that I'm not the one making the argument that the information should be spun one way or another? Has this thread really fallen this far? And do you assume, just by me interpreting the information I have before me, that I am a liberal? I'm criticizing a grossly incompetent leader who deserves it by every measure I can think of, that doesn't make me a Democratic shill. You're the one projecting here. The situation looks awful no matter how you want to spin it, and you refuse to acknowledge it. There's nothing baseless about my presumption. Here are you are presuming that Trump's disclosure of the intelligence is another act of gross incompetence. It's pretty clear to me what you're doing. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck.... enlighten me please, what else could it be? In a vacuum, what would be wrong with Trump sharing information with Russia that Russia was about to be attacked by ISIS? It would give away methods and routes of intelligence. Russia is deeply invested in knowing the inner workings of Israeli intelligence. Having little clues here and there, in addition to what Russia already has, would likely allow Russia to confirm/deny underlying assumptions and to build a more complete model as to Israel's capabilities, current pursuits, positioning, etc. Not necessarily. It depends upon what Trump told Russia. Saying "we are hearing that Russia is going to be attacked" is very different than "Russia is going to be attacked and this is how we know it [and what follows is a full disclosure of the source of the intelligence]." This my big problem with these leaks. We don't know what was shared, so all that's left is innuendo. And it's the innuendo that is being reported on and seized by the public. Regardless of what Trump actually told the Russians, why would any intelligence agency share anything with the US when it can see that our intelligence apparatus is leaking like a sieve? Do you realize by now that the leaks are just a symptom, and that Trump is the cause? The frequency of leaks with this administration is absolutely incredible. Can you see why that is? What has Trump actually done to warrant the leaks? What specific leak has been justified? Which leak has divulged information showing that Trump should be impeached? I keep waiting for something significant to come out, but it hasn't happened. For that reason, I can't help but think that this is all politics.
What about the leaks that got Flynn fired?
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The official White House story from McMaster is that Trump didn't know what was shared was classified at this point, and Trump himself said he shared the information purposefully. There's no liberal spin on that. That makes it gross incompetence no matter how you slice it in my opinion.
Of course, just like the Steele dossier being in briefing materials, no matter who says what and how much gets confirmed by the admin, anything bad about it will be painted as media spin.
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On May 17 2017 05:27 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2017 05:20 Danglars wrote:On May 17 2017 04:58 xDaunt wrote:On May 17 2017 04:55 NewSunshine wrote:On May 17 2017 04:50 xDaunt wrote:On May 17 2017 04:41 Leporello wrote:On May 17 2017 04:35 xDaunt wrote:
The irony is that far more damage is being caused by all of these intelligence sources leaking shit to the press about what Trump may or may not have told the Russians than whatever Trump actually told the Russians. Hopefully the new FBI director has a pair and goes after the leakers. Sure, dude. It's totally cool that Trump gives Israeli intelligence to one of their most historical enemies, which is awash in anti-semitism. He's totally allowed, just like he's totally allowed to destroy all our alliances and run around the White House buck-naked. Somewhere, Ronald Reagan's corpse just vomited. You know it's true. The presumption underlying this post is astounding. You don't know exactly what was shared. Like I mentioned yesterday, there a ton of things that are classified that might be appropriate to share with Russia depending upon the circumstances. For all we know, this information shared could be required to be disclosed under the ICAO. Where is the rule or law that the US prohibited from sharing any intelligence with Russia? That's right: there isn't one for reasons that should be readily apparent to everyone. It's not the role of the intelligence community to make half-assed leaks that are designed purely to harm the president. If there really is something that the public needs to know about, then they should go full Snowden. But no, that's clearly not what this is about. This 100% politics. Of course, few liberals are going to admit that. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/world/middleeast/israel-trump-classified-intelligence-russia.html?smid=tw-shareThe information is believed to be pertaining to ISIS, but beyond that we don't know. Whether or not Russia deliberately uses it against Israel is beside the point, it's very sensitive information that was classified for a reason. The fact that it's out due to Trump's incompetence means Israel has little reason to trust us going forward, as do a lot of other countries. But make this about liberals, please. Your partisanship is showing. Is there one liberal around here who understands that I'm not the one making the argument that the information should be spun one way or another? Has this thread really fallen this far? I think you know the answer to that question. It's been going on for five months now. It's getting really old. I'm not spinning this, you are! I'm not being partisan about this, you are! Trump's actually bad enough that you don't have to make up and spin facts to attack him. Selective, anonymous leaking is actually bad enough that you don't have to care who is in the White House to attack it. I started out ambivalent, but now I think Trump really will fire many in his administration and hold-overs because no CEO can tolerate this junk for long. no country shoudl have to tolerate a leader this incompetent either; and yet here we are. it certainly does seem true trump will fire a lot of people though; no great surprise. the board of directors needs to step up and fire this ceo already.
Nah, I think Trump's in there for good. Nothing impeachable thus far and forget about getting a 2/3 vote in the Senate. Pence won't be on board for any acting Pres change. It shouldn't need to be said again but Trump is elected for a four year term so tolerate away; staffers in the administrative state have no such protection.
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Note that attacking someone's belief system just reinforces it. It is a human thing, and part of why conservative talk radio glommed so fucking hard onto "we are constantly under attack by liberals!" No human is really immune to it, and it is partially an explanation for some of the dumber cults belief in easily disprove facts, ie. Flat earthers. Liberals are just as susceptible as conservatives to it, but it hasn't been weaponized like it has by conservative media.
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On May 17 2017 05:25 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2017 05:20 Tachion wrote:On May 17 2017 05:16 xDaunt wrote:On May 17 2017 05:11 Mohdoo wrote:On May 17 2017 05:08 xDaunt wrote:On May 17 2017 05:05 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:On May 17 2017 05:03 xDaunt wrote:On May 17 2017 05:01 NewSunshine wrote:On May 17 2017 04:58 xDaunt wrote:On May 17 2017 04:55 NewSunshine wrote:[quote] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/world/middleeast/israel-trump-classified-intelligence-russia.html?smid=tw-shareThe information is believed to be pertaining to ISIS, but beyond that we don't know. Whether or not Russia deliberately uses it against Israel is beside the point, it's very sensitive information that was classified for a reason. The fact that it's out due to Trump's incompetence means Israel has little reason to trust us going forward, as do a lot of other countries. But make this about liberals, please. Your partisanship is showing. Is there one liberal around here who understands that I'm not the one making the argument that the information should be spun one way or another? Has this thread really fallen this far? And do you assume, just by me interpreting the information I have before me, that I am a liberal? I'm criticizing a grossly incompetent leader who deserves it by every measure I can think of, that doesn't make me a Democratic shill. You're the one projecting here. The situation looks awful no matter how you want to spin it, and you refuse to acknowledge it. There's nothing baseless about my presumption. Here are you are presuming that Trump's disclosure of the intelligence is another act of gross incompetence. It's pretty clear to me what you're doing. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck.... enlighten me please, what else could it be? In a vacuum, what would be wrong with Trump sharing information with Russia that Russia was about to be attacked by ISIS? It would give away methods and routes of intelligence. Russia is deeply invested in knowing the inner workings of Israeli intelligence. Having little clues here and there, in addition to what Russia already has, would likely allow Russia to confirm/deny underlying assumptions and to build a more complete model as to Israel's capabilities, current pursuits, positioning, etc. Not necessarily. It depends upon what Trump told Russia. Saying "we are hearing that Russia is going to be attacked" is very different than "Russia is going to be attacked and this is how we know it [and what follows is a full disclosure of the source of the intelligence]." This my big problem with these leaks. We don't know what was shared, so all that's left is innuendo. And it's the innuendo that is being reported on and seized by the public. Regardless of what Trump actually told the Russians, why would any intelligence agency share anything with the US when it can see that our intelligence apparatus is leaking like a sieve? Do you realize by now that the leaks are just a symptom, and that Trump is the cause? The frequency of leaks with this administration is absolutely incredible. Can you see why that is? What has Trump actually done to warrant the leaks? What specific leak has been justified? Which leak has divulged information showing that Trump should be impeached? I keep waiting for something significant to come out, but it hasn't happened. For that reason, I can't help but think that this is all politics.
Here is what he did to warrant the leaks. He identified the city in Syria/Iraq from which the critical ISIS intel was gleaned. CNN was told to shut up about that city because it would get people killed if shared. WaPo also sat on the city. Trump didn't.
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EPT
