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On May 10 2017 10:03 ChristianS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2017 09:47 xDaunt wrote:On May 10 2017 09:42 ChristianS wrote:
Serious question for those ITT who think Trump was justified on this one (so far, xDaunt and Danglars are in this category at least). What possible explanation is there for this happening right now? There's an ongoing investigation into matters that implicate Trump's campaign, and Comey is set to testify to Congress about the investigation tomorrow. All of the rationales for his firing offered by the administration are events from last year.
I figured the juicier allegations about Trump were probably false just because reality isn't usually that excitingk but I'm seriously wondering now, why would he do this if there wasn't something to hide? There are any number of reasons why Trump would get rid of Comey now, some of which are set forth in the letters attached to Trump's termination letter. I'm not going to pretend to know why Trump did it. However, I find it highly amusing that so many are jumping to the conclusion that Comey's termination is the product of some nefarious motive of Trump's to halt whatever investigation is going on into Trump's campaign or other affairs of his. If anything, I find this particular conclusion to be one of the hardest to believe. Trump simply isn't that stupid. Wait wait wait I need to walk through this one. You're starting from the assumption that Trump is smart. Because he's smart, he obviously knows that firing the FBI director in the middle of an ongoing investigation that implicates Trump is going to make everyone think he's guilty. If he was guilty, he would obviously never do that. So therefore Trump firing the FBI director in the middle of an ongoing investigation that implicates Trump clearly proves that he's not guilty. Did I miss any steps in that logic, or is that pretty much it?
No, you pretty much have it backwards. There's a critical difference between presuming that someone is above a certain threshold of stupidity and then presuming that someone is smart. The logic is basically this:
1) Trump fired Comey either for a) legitimate reasons, or b) to cover up the investigation (an illegitimate reason).
2) Trump would only have reason to fire Comey to cover up the investigation if there was something to that investigation.
3) However, if there is something to the investigation, then firing Comey won't stop the investigation.
4) Only someone who is really stupid wouldn't understand Point 3 and would try to fire Comey to stop the investigation.
5) I find it highly unlikely that Trump is stupid enough to not understand Point 3.
6) For this reason, I think that it is more likely that than not that Trump fired Comey for legitimate reasons.
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I just don't see what the benefit is to firing comey right now. Not that I don't see the net benefit but any benefit at all. I get that the axe should have come at some point on him but the middle of the russian investigations? Theres no way the FBI will have any political credibility with a guy at the head picked by trump. If he belived comey was anything short of a total DNC plant theres no legitimate positive for this decision.
On May 10 2017 10:17 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2017 10:03 ChristianS wrote:On May 10 2017 09:47 xDaunt wrote:On May 10 2017 09:42 ChristianS wrote:
Serious question for those ITT who think Trump was justified on this one (so far, xDaunt and Danglars are in this category at least). What possible explanation is there for this happening right now? There's an ongoing investigation into matters that implicate Trump's campaign, and Comey is set to testify to Congress about the investigation tomorrow. All of the rationales for his firing offered by the administration are events from last year.
I figured the juicier allegations about Trump were probably false just because reality isn't usually that excitingk but I'm seriously wondering now, why would he do this if there wasn't something to hide? There are any number of reasons why Trump would get rid of Comey now, some of which are set forth in the letters attached to Trump's termination letter. I'm not going to pretend to know why Trump did it. However, I find it highly amusing that so many are jumping to the conclusion that Comey's termination is the product of some nefarious motive of Trump's to halt whatever investigation is going on into Trump's campaign or other affairs of his. If anything, I find this particular conclusion to be one of the hardest to believe. Trump simply isn't that stupid. Wait wait wait I need to walk through this one. You're starting from the assumption that Trump is smart. Because he's smart, he obviously knows that firing the FBI director in the middle of an ongoing investigation that implicates Trump is going to make everyone think he's guilty. If he was guilty, he would obviously never do that. So therefore Trump firing the FBI director in the middle of an ongoing investigation that implicates Trump clearly proves that he's not guilty. Did I miss any steps in that logic, or is that pretty much it? No, you pretty much have it backwards. There's a critical difference between presuming that someone is above a certain threshold of stupidity and then presuming that someone is smart. The logic is basically this: 1) Trump fired Comey either for a) legitimate reasons, or b) to cover up the investigation (an illegitimate reason). 2) Trump would only have reason to fire Comey to cover up the investigation if there was something to that investigation. 3) However, if there is something to the investigation, then firing Comey won't stop the investigation. 4) Only someone who is really stupid wouldn't understand Point 3 and would try to fire Comey to stop the investigation. 5) I find it highly unlikely that Trump is stupid enough to not understand Point 3. 6) For this reason, I think that it is more likely that than not that Trump fired Comey for legitimate reasons.
I don't think the common legitimate consensus is that Trump fire comey for legitimate reasons but the timing that he fired him in. The middle of hearings and an investigation into the executive personally is not the time for him to even think of fireing him without a clear public reasoning to shield him from the obvious possible implications.
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Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm this can't be connected.
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Lol it's hard to even know what to make of this, since the mere firing of Comey is monumentally incompetent in itself, even if there is no nefarious motive. The political firestorm is just so predictable. And the stated rationale runs counter to the past statements of Sessions and Trump. This isn't about Hillary's emails.
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On May 10 2017 10:17 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2017 10:03 ChristianS wrote:On May 10 2017 09:47 xDaunt wrote:On May 10 2017 09:42 ChristianS wrote:
Serious question for those ITT who think Trump was justified on this one (so far, xDaunt and Danglars are in this category at least). What possible explanation is there for this happening right now? There's an ongoing investigation into matters that implicate Trump's campaign, and Comey is set to testify to Congress about the investigation tomorrow. All of the rationales for his firing offered by the administration are events from last year.
I figured the juicier allegations about Trump were probably false just because reality isn't usually that excitingk but I'm seriously wondering now, why would he do this if there wasn't something to hide? There are any number of reasons why Trump would get rid of Comey now, some of which are set forth in the letters attached to Trump's termination letter. I'm not going to pretend to know why Trump did it. However, I find it highly amusing that so many are jumping to the conclusion that Comey's termination is the product of some nefarious motive of Trump's to halt whatever investigation is going on into Trump's campaign or other affairs of his. If anything, I find this particular conclusion to be one of the hardest to believe. Trump simply isn't that stupid. Wait wait wait I need to walk through this one. You're starting from the assumption that Trump is smart. Because he's smart, he obviously knows that firing the FBI director in the middle of an ongoing investigation that implicates Trump is going to make everyone think he's guilty. If he was guilty, he would obviously never do that. So therefore Trump firing the FBI director in the middle of an ongoing investigation that implicates Trump clearly proves that he's not guilty. Did I miss any steps in that logic, or is that pretty much it? No, you pretty much have it backwards. There's a critical difference between presuming that someone is above a certain threshold of stupidity and then presuming that someone is smart. The logic is basically this: 1) Trump fired Comey either for a) legitimate reasons, or b) to cover up the investigation (an illegitimate reason). 2) Trump would only have reason to fire Comey to cover up the investigation if there was something to that investigation. 3) However, if there is something to the investigation, then firing Comey won't stop the investigation. 4) Only someone who is really stupid wouldn't understand Point 3 and would try to fire Comey to stop the investigation. 5) I find it highly unlikely that Trump is stupid enough to not understand Point 3. 6) For this reason, I think that it is more likely that than not that Trump fired Comey for legitimate reasons.
The reasons were stated in the letters. They're completely incoherent with recent WH statements. Therefore one must assume they're BS as even conservative pundits like Krauthammer are assuming.
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On May 10 2017 10:22 warding wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2017 10:17 xDaunt wrote:On May 10 2017 10:03 ChristianS wrote:On May 10 2017 09:47 xDaunt wrote:On May 10 2017 09:42 ChristianS wrote:
Serious question for those ITT who think Trump was justified on this one (so far, xDaunt and Danglars are in this category at least). What possible explanation is there for this happening right now? There's an ongoing investigation into matters that implicate Trump's campaign, and Comey is set to testify to Congress about the investigation tomorrow. All of the rationales for his firing offered by the administration are events from last year.
I figured the juicier allegations about Trump were probably false just because reality isn't usually that excitingk but I'm seriously wondering now, why would he do this if there wasn't something to hide? There are any number of reasons why Trump would get rid of Comey now, some of which are set forth in the letters attached to Trump's termination letter. I'm not going to pretend to know why Trump did it. However, I find it highly amusing that so many are jumping to the conclusion that Comey's termination is the product of some nefarious motive of Trump's to halt whatever investigation is going on into Trump's campaign or other affairs of his. If anything, I find this particular conclusion to be one of the hardest to believe. Trump simply isn't that stupid. Wait wait wait I need to walk through this one. You're starting from the assumption that Trump is smart. Because he's smart, he obviously knows that firing the FBI director in the middle of an ongoing investigation that implicates Trump is going to make everyone think he's guilty. If he was guilty, he would obviously never do that. So therefore Trump firing the FBI director in the middle of an ongoing investigation that implicates Trump clearly proves that he's not guilty. Did I miss any steps in that logic, or is that pretty much it? No, you pretty much have it backwards. There's a critical difference between presuming that someone is above a certain threshold of stupidity and then presuming that someone is smart. The logic is basically this: 1) Trump fired Comey either for a) legitimate reasons, or b) to cover up the investigation (an illegitimate reason). 2) Trump would only have reason to fire Comey to cover up the investigation if there was something to that investigation. 3) However, if there is something to the investigation, then firing Comey won't stop the investigation. 4) Only someone who is really stupid wouldn't understand Point 3 and would try to fire Comey to stop the investigation. 5) I find it highly unlikely that Trump is stupid enough to not understand Point 3. 6) For this reason, I think that it is more likely that than not that Trump fired Comey for legitimate reasons. The reasons were stated in the letters. They're completely incoherent with recent WH statements. Therefore one must assume they're BS as even conservative pundits like Krauthammer are assuming.
I don't think that they're incoherent at all, and I don't think that they're inconsistent with Trump's past behavior. He stands by his people until he drops the axe. His dealing with Comey is no different.
And appealing to the comments nevertrumper conservatives doesn't exactly help your case. There's no shortage of conservatives who are going to jump all over this in an effort to hurt Trump, regardless of the merits.
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What are the chances of the deputy FBI director (currently acting director) resigning in protest?
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Trump's ham-fisted approach to people who have spoken ill of him in the past happens to be the exact same approach he's taking with Comey, assuming he is in fact stupid enough not to realize that firing him won't stop an investigation. It's not really shocking that he would make this move given the sewer-storm of stupidity, corruption and desperation he seems to find himself in.
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On May 10 2017 10:22 warding wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2017 10:17 xDaunt wrote:On May 10 2017 10:03 ChristianS wrote:On May 10 2017 09:47 xDaunt wrote:On May 10 2017 09:42 ChristianS wrote:
Serious question for those ITT who think Trump was justified on this one (so far, xDaunt and Danglars are in this category at least). What possible explanation is there for this happening right now? There's an ongoing investigation into matters that implicate Trump's campaign, and Comey is set to testify to Congress about the investigation tomorrow. All of the rationales for his firing offered by the administration are events from last year.
I figured the juicier allegations about Trump were probably false just because reality isn't usually that excitingk but I'm seriously wondering now, why would he do this if there wasn't something to hide? There are any number of reasons why Trump would get rid of Comey now, some of which are set forth in the letters attached to Trump's termination letter. I'm not going to pretend to know why Trump did it. However, I find it highly amusing that so many are jumping to the conclusion that Comey's termination is the product of some nefarious motive of Trump's to halt whatever investigation is going on into Trump's campaign or other affairs of his. If anything, I find this particular conclusion to be one of the hardest to believe. Trump simply isn't that stupid. Wait wait wait I need to walk through this one. You're starting from the assumption that Trump is smart. Because he's smart, he obviously knows that firing the FBI director in the middle of an ongoing investigation that implicates Trump is going to make everyone think he's guilty. If he was guilty, he would obviously never do that. So therefore Trump firing the FBI director in the middle of an ongoing investigation that implicates Trump clearly proves that he's not guilty. Did I miss any steps in that logic, or is that pretty much it? No, you pretty much have it backwards. There's a critical difference between presuming that someone is above a certain threshold of stupidity and then presuming that someone is smart. The logic is basically this: 1) Trump fired Comey either for a) legitimate reasons, or b) to cover up the investigation (an illegitimate reason). 2) Trump would only have reason to fire Comey to cover up the investigation if there was something to that investigation. 3) However, if there is something to the investigation, then firing Comey won't stop the investigation. 4) Only someone who is really stupid wouldn't understand Point 3 and would try to fire Comey to stop the investigation. 5) I find it highly unlikely that Trump is stupid enough to not understand Point 3. 6) For this reason, I think that it is more likely that than not that Trump fired Comey for legitimate reasons. The reasons were stated in the letters. They're completely incoherent with recent WH statements. Therefore one must assume they're BS as even conservative pundits like Krauthammer are assuming.
I think we could reasonably shorten your statement to "all statements by Trump may be assumed to be BS at all times"
therefore the notion of coherence is meaningless.
hmm, i'm not sure I said that right. oh well, I can't think of how to make it clearer.
PS. I'm in favor of a Pence coup anytime, as I have been for ages now.
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On May 10 2017 10:27 NewSunshine wrote:
Trump's ham-fisted approach to people who have spoken ill of him in the past happens to be the exact same approach he's taking with Comey, assuming he is in fact stupid enough not to realize that firing him won't stop an investigation. It's not really shocking that he would make this move given the sewer-storm of stupidity, corruption and desperation he seems to find himself in.
That's true, it could simply be the irrational vengeance that Trump can't control.
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On May 10 2017 10:17 Sermokala wrote:
I just don't see what the benefit is to firing comey right now. Not that I don't see the net benefit but any benefit at all. I get that the axe should have come at some point on him but the middle of the russian investigations? Theres no way the FBI will have any political credibility with a guy at the head picked by trump. If he belived comey was anything short of a total DNC plant theres no legitimate positive for this decision.
I think you've already found the benefit right there.
This whole thing smells to high heaven, I mean they must know how it will look, or maybe they just don't care. They already pulled a similar stunt once with the whole Nunes saga. It will be interesting to see what comes out of the senate investigation - the only investigation with full credibility now remaining.
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On May 10 2017 10:25 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2017 10:22 warding wrote:On May 10 2017 10:17 xDaunt wrote:On May 10 2017 10:03 ChristianS wrote:On May 10 2017 09:47 xDaunt wrote:On May 10 2017 09:42 ChristianS wrote:
Serious question for those ITT who think Trump was justified on this one (so far, xDaunt and Danglars are in this category at least). What possible explanation is there for this happening right now? There's an ongoing investigation into matters that implicate Trump's campaign, and Comey is set to testify to Congress about the investigation tomorrow. All of the rationales for his firing offered by the administration are events from last year.
I figured the juicier allegations about Trump were probably false just because reality isn't usually that excitingk but I'm seriously wondering now, why would he do this if there wasn't something to hide? There are any number of reasons why Trump would get rid of Comey now, some of which are set forth in the letters attached to Trump's termination letter. I'm not going to pretend to know why Trump did it. However, I find it highly amusing that so many are jumping to the conclusion that Comey's termination is the product of some nefarious motive of Trump's to halt whatever investigation is going on into Trump's campaign or other affairs of his. If anything, I find this particular conclusion to be one of the hardest to believe. Trump simply isn't that stupid. Wait wait wait I need to walk through this one. You're starting from the assumption that Trump is smart. Because he's smart, he obviously knows that firing the FBI director in the middle of an ongoing investigation that implicates Trump is going to make everyone think he's guilty. If he was guilty, he would obviously never do that. So therefore Trump firing the FBI director in the middle of an ongoing investigation that implicates Trump clearly proves that he's not guilty. Did I miss any steps in that logic, or is that pretty much it? No, you pretty much have it backwards. There's a critical difference between presuming that someone is above a certain threshold of stupidity and then presuming that someone is smart. The logic is basically this: 1) Trump fired Comey either for a) legitimate reasons, or b) to cover up the investigation (an illegitimate reason). 2) Trump would only have reason to fire Comey to cover up the investigation if there was something to that investigation. 3) However, if there is something to the investigation, then firing Comey won't stop the investigation. 4) Only someone who is really stupid wouldn't understand Point 3 and would try to fire Comey to stop the investigation. 5) I find it highly unlikely that Trump is stupid enough to not understand Point 3. 6) For this reason, I think that it is more likely that than not that Trump fired Comey for legitimate reasons. The reasons were stated in the letters. They're completely incoherent with recent WH statements. Therefore one must assume they're BS as even conservative pundits like Krauthammer are assuming. I don't think that they're incoherent at all, and I don't think that they're inconsistent with Trump's past behavior. He stands by his people until he drops the axe. His dealing with Comey is no different.
That literally is the opposite of what "standing by his people" means. It literally means "NOT standing by your people".
There's also nothing but stupidity here regardless of how you spin it. The firing itself is stupid. First, there was no apparent reason: people will make up their own mind. You have the people who say it's because he didn't get HRC in jail (which makes it stupid AND petty), you have people who say it's because maybe he has dirt on him and he wants to prevent him from speaking on it (that makes those people stupid, but still would be retarded as a reason). Then, of course, there's the undeniable probability (well, i say undeniable, unless you're delusional or in denial already anyway) that this is to prevent comey from going further in that investigation. In fact the WH already is arguing that there isn't any investigation anymore.
Now, regardless of what the reason is, he'll always look fishy. To anyone but to the_donald warriors and russian trolls. The only one hurt by this (not that it would make a difference for the worst liked/approved president in the US history) is trump.
Doesn't matter how his trolls try to spin it.
edit: as a slightly related note, i find it shocking that there's people dumb (yeah, it's dumb, not naive - it's pure stupidity) enough to immediately argue against whatever is assumed instead of actually acknowledging that the stupidity that was shown by trump and the staff didn't just go away in 24 hours.. I wish you were that fast to go on record saying "this wasn't islamic terrorism" everytime a bomb goes off. The current WH staff has proven over and over again that fuckery is all they care about, in fact they coined multiple terms that are now used worldwide to take a shit on trump (fake news) or worse, alternative facts. They made it abundantly clear that facts are what they deem so - the rest is fake news. To give someone like that the benefit of the doubt is just absolutely idiotic.
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On May 10 2017 10:34 TheFish7 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2017 10:17 Sermokala wrote:
I just don't see what the benefit is to firing comey right now. Not that I don't see the net benefit but any benefit at all. I get that the axe should have come at some point on him but the middle of the russian investigations? Theres no way the FBI will have any political credibility with a guy at the head picked by trump. If he belived comey was anything short of a total DNC plant theres no legitimate positive for this decision. I think you've already found the benefit right there. This whole thing smells to high heaven, I mean they must know how it will look, or maybe they just don't care. They already pulled a similar stunt once with the whole Nunes saga. It will be interesting to see what comes out of the senate investigation - the only investigation with full credibility now remaining.
But thats not a benefit. The senate investigation is now only in the hands of either his tenuous allies at best and worst his political enemies. The FBI isn't going to stop an investigation just because he appoints someone to do it. Thats madness at the best possible examination. At the least the FBI was an easy shield to deflect at least partially all the noise people were making about the Russia investigations.
I think now that theres something not sure what but something at the end of this rabbit hole but I'm going to be on the side of trying to figure out what possibly these people think that they're doing to hide it.
Christ I can imagine it being relatively dumb and something easily explained. Trump inviting a bunch of Russian oligarchs over and being their US contact as they move their money into legitimate US enterprises. Thats a conflict of interest for being president but its just smart business.
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On May 10 2017 10:17 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2017 10:03 ChristianS wrote:On May 10 2017 09:47 xDaunt wrote:On May 10 2017 09:42 ChristianS wrote:
Serious question for those ITT who think Trump was justified on this one (so far, xDaunt and Danglars are in this category at least). What possible explanation is there for this happening right now? There's an ongoing investigation into matters that implicate Trump's campaign, and Comey is set to testify to Congress about the investigation tomorrow. All of the rationales for his firing offered by the administration are events from last year.
I figured the juicier allegations about Trump were probably false just because reality isn't usually that excitingk but I'm seriously wondering now, why would he do this if there wasn't something to hide? There are any number of reasons why Trump would get rid of Comey now, some of which are set forth in the letters attached to Trump's termination letter. I'm not going to pretend to know why Trump did it. However, I find it highly amusing that so many are jumping to the conclusion that Comey's termination is the product of some nefarious motive of Trump's to halt whatever investigation is going on into Trump's campaign or other affairs of his. If anything, I find this particular conclusion to be one of the hardest to believe. Trump simply isn't that stupid. Wait wait wait I need to walk through this one. You're starting from the assumption that Trump is smart. Because he's smart, he obviously knows that firing the FBI director in the middle of an ongoing investigation that implicates Trump is going to make everyone think he's guilty. If he was guilty, he would obviously never do that. So therefore Trump firing the FBI director in the middle of an ongoing investigation that implicates Trump clearly proves that he's not guilty. Did I miss any steps in that logic, or is that pretty much it? No, you pretty much have it backwards. There's a critical difference between presuming that someone is above a certain threshold of stupidity and then presuming that someone is smart. The logic is basically this: 1) Trump fired Comey either for a) legitimate reasons, or b) to cover up the investigation (an illegitimate reason). 2) Trump would only have reason to fire Comey to cover up the investigation if there was something to that investigation. 3) However, if there is something to the investigation, then firing Comey won't stop the investigation. 4) Only someone who is really stupid wouldn't understand Point 3 and would try to fire Comey to stop the investigation. 5) I find it highly unlikely that Trump is stupid enough to not understand Point 3. 6) For this reason, I think that it is more likely that than not that Trump fired Comey for legitimate reasons.
The question is, what are those legitimate reasons? It's stated in the letters that the primary reason for the firing is due to the Clinton email investigation. While they can cite that investigation as a legitimate reason, it did occur last year, so what could have changed between inauguration and now regarding that investigation that would've prompted the firing? The timing seems awfully fishy because of that, which could be indicative of some other, unstated reasons for the firing that we can only speculate on.
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Unrelated, sorry, what means "He is a white hat"? Tried googling, pops up with hacking etc?
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On May 10 2017 10:57 m4ini wrote:
Unrelated, sorry, what means "He is a white hat"? Tried googling, pops up with hacking etc?
White hat means people that do good for the internet. Black hat is generally things that people do on the internet that are frowned upon. So I'm assuming they're using the same context here.
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firestorm or dumpster fire
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On May 10 2017 11:01 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2017 10:57 m4ini wrote:
Unrelated, sorry, what means "He is a white hat"? Tried googling, pops up with hacking etc? White hat means people that do good for the internet. Black hat is generally things that people do on the internet that are frowned upon. So I'm assuming they're using the same context here.
Cheers. Never heard of that before.
In regards to "trump isn't that stupid.. Lets not forget that this wouldn't be the first time a republican president tries something like that (although back then it was "only" the main investigator amongst others). And if the republicans had the situation back then as it is now (in congress), he would've gotten away with it too.
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On May 10 2017 11:19 m4ini wrote:
... he would've gotten away with it too.
If it wasn't for the meddling press!
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On May 10 2017 11:26 Uldridge wrote:If it wasn't for the meddling press!
And that stupid public!
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EPT
