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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
April 19 2017 03:56 GMT
#147081
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24354 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-19 04:23:36
April 19 2017 04:22 GMT
#147082
On April 19 2017 11:29 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
So just by looking at the GA race it seems whoever supports Trump or his policies ends up being worse off regardless of the outcome. Not good.


Now we get to watch Democrats explain why it makes sense for them to dump money into a race where in 2016 the Democrat lost by 20%+ and the guy can't even vote for himself because he doesn't live in his district. After just explaining why doing that is something they wouldn't do.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-19 04:30:47
April 19 2017 04:30 GMT
#147083
wasnt a certain someone a vocal advocate of the 50 state strategy?

the 6th district loved tom price, not so big on trump. ossoff grew up there and lives about a mile outside. hardly a carpetbagger. he was a % or two off from winning outright.

it's more or less a battle of attrition now. keep the dem voters engaged while trying nuking handel frm orbit with whatever oppo is available.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
April 19 2017 04:36 GMT
#147084
Welp, he's under 50% now so it looks like it's going to the runoff.

The guy grew up in the district and has said he's living where he is until his girlfriend finishes medical school that isn't very far away. He'll be moving back right afterwards.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44300 Posts
April 19 2017 04:38 GMT
#147085
On April 19 2017 12:56 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/AP/status/854523686300397568

Unironic thanks Obama time.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-19 04:41:41
April 19 2017 04:41 GMT
#147086
will be interesting seeing what the runoff result is. 2 months seems stupid long for a house race though. Isn't the french presidential election 2 weeks for the runoff?
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24354 Posts
April 19 2017 04:41 GMT
#147087
On April 19 2017 13:36 Gahlo wrote:
Welp, he's under 50% now so it looks like it's going to the runoff.

The guy grew up in the district and has said he's living where he is until his girlfriend finishes medical school that isn't very far away. He'll be moving back right afterwards.


Which doesn't sell well when it's countered with the overwhelming majority of his financial support is from outside the district or even state. '

That said, sure, support him, he's better than a Republican, but don't act like this is totally fitting of the 50 state strategy and blowing any opportunity they had in KS was too. They shafted the guy in KS because he was a Bernie supporter, not the BS excuses they gave.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
April 19 2017 04:53 GMT
#147088
On April 19 2017 13:41 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 19 2017 13:36 Gahlo wrote:
Welp, he's under 50% now so it looks like it's going to the runoff.

The guy grew up in the district and has said he's living where he is until his girlfriend finishes medical school that isn't very far away. He'll be moving back right afterwards.


Which doesn't sell well when it's countered with the overwhelming majority of his financial support is from outside the district or even state. '

That said, sure, support him, he's better than a Republican, but don't act like this is totally fitting of the 50 state strategy and blowing any opportunity they had in KS was too. They shafted the guy in KS because he was a Bernie supporter, not the BS excuses they gave.

You're infering an awful lot of subtext for things I've never discussed in this thread.
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-19 05:01:14
April 19 2017 04:57 GMT
#147089
considering republicans dumped 6m of outside money to run ads against ossoff, i'd say that GA6 is probably a far more contested race than the KS4 one was. plus most of ossoff's out of state money came from small donors. the margins seem to back that up further. i would have advocated putting some extra $$$ into KS4, but it would still have been a far longer shot.

but that doesnt support the narrative of the democratic party is literally messing up everywhere, i guess.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24354 Posts
April 19 2017 05:29 GMT
#147090
On April 19 2017 13:53 Gahlo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 19 2017 13:41 GreenHorizons wrote:
On April 19 2017 13:36 Gahlo wrote:
Welp, he's under 50% now so it looks like it's going to the runoff.

The guy grew up in the district and has said he's living where he is until his girlfriend finishes medical school that isn't very far away. He'll be moving back right afterwards.


Which doesn't sell well when it's countered with the overwhelming majority of his financial support is from outside the district or even state. '

That said, sure, support him, he's better than a Republican, but don't act like this is totally fitting of the 50 state strategy and blowing any opportunity they had in KS was too. They shafted the guy in KS because he was a Bernie supporter, not the BS excuses they gave.

You're infering an awful lot of subtext for things I've never discussed in this thread.


Only the first part was for you, the second part was screaming into the wind at the Democratic party and their loyalists.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
MinoMoto
Profile Joined June 2011
Latvia107 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-19 09:08:15
April 19 2017 09:02 GMT
#147091
SEOUL, April 19 (Yonhap) -- North Korea has unveiled footage of a simulated missile attack on the United States at the latest performance to mark the birthday of late state founder Kim Il-sung, Pyongyang's media reported Wednesday.

Footage of what appeared to be a new intermediate-range ballistic missile being fired and the missile crossing the Pacific and hitting an unidentified city of the U.S. was shown on a giant screen at the performance hall, according to the state-run TV station.

After the simulated attack, footage of burning the Stars and Stripes was shown, overlapped with an image of a cemetery, it reported.

It was unveiled during the performance Sunday by the State Merited Chorus for participants of a military parade marking the 105th birthday of Kim Il-sung, the grandfather of current leader Kim Jong-un.



source

Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France8187 Posts
April 19 2017 09:07 GMT
#147092
On April 19 2017 18:02 MinoMoto wrote:
SEOUL, April 19 (Yonhap) -- North Korea has unveiled footage of a simulated missile attack on the United States at the latest performance to mark the birthday of late state founder Kim Il-sung, Pyongyang's media reported Wednesday.

Footage of what appeared to be a new intermediate-range ballistic missile being fired and the missile crossing the Pacific and hitting an unidentified city of the U.S. was shown on a giant screen at the performance hall, according to the state-run TV station.

After the simulated attack, footage of burning the Stars and Stripes was shown, overlapped with an image of a cemetery, it reported.

It was unveiled during the performance Sunday by the State Merited Chorus for participants of a military parade marking the 105th birthday of Kim Il-sung, the grandfather of current leader Kim Jong-un.

video

source

I think the only way to understand the morbid paranoic madness of NK is to read George Orwell. Keep the people in line by promising them fountains of blood of imaginary ennemies, by cultivating a state of permanent siege, war and emergency, and inventing and repeating ad nauseam a narrative of a grand final victory that will never happen.

It's really amazing how closely to 1984 that country has developped.
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18444 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-19 10:14:40
April 19 2017 09:10 GMT
#147093
On April 19 2017 05:24 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 19 2017 04:55 Plansix wrote:
On April 19 2017 04:33 LegalLord wrote:
On April 19 2017 04:29 Liquid`Drone wrote:
On April 19 2017 04:26 Danglars wrote:
On April 19 2017 04:12 LegalLord wrote:
On April 19 2017 04:08 Danglars wrote:
On April 19 2017 03:43 LegalLord wrote:
In times of crisis, credibility is an American president’s most valuable currency. It’s one thing for a foreign partner to doubt a president’s judgment; it’s entirely more debilitating when that partner doubts the president’s word.
As President Trump confronts the twin challenges of North Korea and Syria, he must overcome a credibility gap of his own making. His insistence on remaining the most prominent consumer and purveyor of fake news and conspiracy theories is not only corrosive of our democracy — it’s dangerous to our national security. Every fact-averse tweet devalues his credibility at home and around the world. This matters more than ever when misinformation is a weapon of choice for our most dangerous adversaries.
Part of the problem is that Mr. Trump’s itchy Twitter finger can’t resist bluster. A series of sophomoric presidential missives — “North Korea is behaving very badly”; “North Korea is looking for trouble”; if China won’t help, “we will solve the problem without them! U.S.A.”; North Korea’s quest for a nuclear-tipped ICBM “won’t happen!” — has given Pyongyang a rare chance to take the high road. “Trump is always making provocations with his aggressive words,” its vice foreign minister declared.
Presidential bravado also risks North Korea taking him at his word, and miscalculating accordingly. Loose threats of pre-emptive military attacks could cause its leader, Kim Jong-un, to shoot first and worry about the consequences later — perhaps striking South Korea with conventional weapons to remind the world what he is capable of, if the United States seeks to eliminate his nuclear program. That’s a quick path to conflict with a volatile and nuclear-armed adversary.
Equally problematic is Mr. Trump’s challenged relationship with veracity, documented almost daily by independent fact-checking organizations. The greatest hits include his repeatedly debunked claim that former President Obama tapped his phones, that a nonexistent terrorist attack occurred in Sweden, that Germany owes NATO vast sums of money, that Mr. Obama released more than 100 detainees from Guantánamo who returned to the battlefield and that Democrats made up allegations about Russian efforts to influence our election. Mr. Trump’s canards risk undermining his ability to counter propaganda from our adversaries.

Source

Interesting opinion piece by an Obama State Dept official. I don't really agree with its conclusions about specific events but it does provide an interesting view into how FP worker folk view his "provocations." Thankfully the US's allies have a severe case of Stockholm Syndrome and will wait out any form of unpleasantness from our less-liked presidents.

You mean former Obama State Dept official, now CNN analyst. With his own brand of propaganda these days it seems.

But the underlying point on wild speech and guidance by whim is a correct observation.

Honestly at this point I've listened to enough of these "FP people" to be able to guess exactly what they will say on any given topic. They're hardly creative or known for avoiding groupthink. But if not for the fact that Europeans will gladly just wait this presidency out then this would be a lot more harmful.

If I didn't have to live with the consequences of that result, I'd almost want Trump 2020 just to see how Europe would see that. It could be a good laugh for a month or two before being deeply upsetting when we see what we have to live through for the next years.

Sending him to office wasn't apparently enough to give the message, maybe sending him back would do a better job.


What message that were we supposed to understand (and accept) was sent through electing Trump?

"Bitch we're America first, we aren't going to be your nanny forever!" or something along the equivalent Republican-populist line.

From a more sane stance: realize that while Trump himself has very small approval ratings, the ideas he represents that Europeans are afraid of are actually very popular here. We're not going to be the kind of nation Europe hopes the US would be because that just isn't the mainstream here.

Trump's unpopularity and Obama's popularity largely stem from their personal appeal more than their policy. In a vacuum, Obama's policies were not very popular as a whole.

You talk about our nations like you have some deep understanding of them, but your observations could not be more surface level. I don’t know how long you have been in the US, but the “EU should stand up for itself and we spend to much abroad” has been around since I was born and before that. These ideas wax and wane. The reason everyone is against wars abroad has nothing to do with NATO and everything to do with Bush. You live in a nation that was lied to and its government is unable to come to terms with our elected officials nearly destroyed our nations economy and took us to war based on lies. And the other party was to interested in moving on that they never did anything to address those problems. We don’t distrust the EU, we distrust our government. But we are to caught up in pro-wrestling style politics to take them to task on the subject.

I must say, your inability to come to terms with the circumstances under which you supported Iraq - and the contortions that you use to justify it in hindsight - are quite impressive. A show of full support for any mistakes that would be as obvious as the Iraq one (with a willingness to lap up any comparable "lies"), and yet a nominal disagreement with Iraq itself.

It is perhaps notable that many of our more warmongering elements complain most about that Iraq wasn't the first (ill-advised, but they don't put it that way) war that ever happened but it's one that turned people more definitively against foreign intervention in a far more sustained fashion than in the past. Not any one reason for that. But nevertheless, it is true that people sympathize with that element of Trump's campaign.

I do find it interesting on your general insistence on "I been there, I know how things work, no one else does cuz no one else was there the way I was there." Especially when it's generally full of incomplete and particularly obtuse feels-based interpretations of all events (e.g. not bothering to find out how long I was in the US before running your mouth), with little regard as to actually discovering the truth of any situation. It's the kind of attitude that will make you a front-line cheerleader for the next Iraq - though after a few years when what was obviously terrible and short-sighted turns out to be so, you will take a feels-based approach to claim you was lied to and that that's why everything is bad.

Your selective rewriting of history never ceases to amuse me. The US didn't want to get involved in WW1, WW2 and had the largest riots and demonstrations in recent history to get the fuck out of Nam, which is to this day still a national trauma. Post-Iraq sentiment is not a new or even remarkable exemplar of American isolationism.
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
April 19 2017 09:44 GMT
#147094
So the carrier group going to North Korea... wasn't going to North Korea

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/18/world/asia/aircraft-carrier-north-korea-carl-vinson.html

The problem was that the carrier, the Carl Vinson, and the three other warships in its strike force were that very moment sailing in the opposite direction, to take part in joint exercises with the Australian Navy in the Indian Ocean, 3,500 miles southwest of the Korean Peninsula.

White House officials said Tuesday that they had been relying on guidance from the Defense Department. Officials there described a glitch-ridden sequence of events, from an ill-timed announcement of the deployment by the military’s Pacific Command to a partially erroneous explanation by the defense secretary, Jim Mattis — all of which perpetuated the false narrative that a flotilla was racing toward the waters off North Korea.
Neosteel Enthusiast
Ghostcom
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark4783 Posts
April 19 2017 09:50 GMT
#147095
^You might want to take a look at page 7354
LightSpectra
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States3216 Posts
April 19 2017 13:41 GMT
#147096
Well good to hear that Trump is ok with the Iran deal now, now if whoever convinced him of that could also do the same for North Korea and Syra that'd be fantastic.
"don't try to pull a LightSpectra-Trumper"
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44300 Posts
April 19 2017 14:25 GMT
#147097
On April 19 2017 22:41 LightSpectra wrote:
Well good to hear that Trump is ok with the Iran deal now, now if whoever convinced him of that could also do the same for North Korea and Syra that'd be fantastic.

North Korea and Iran couldn't be two more dissimilar situations.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 19 2017 14:29 GMT
#147098
On April 19 2017 23:25 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 19 2017 22:41 LightSpectra wrote:
Well good to hear that Trump is ok with the Iran deal now, now if whoever convinced him of that could also do the same for North Korea and Syra that'd be fantastic.

North Korea and Iran couldn't be two more dissimilar situations.

The same with Syria. That civil war rose up all on its own.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
LightSpectra
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States3216 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-19 14:32:23
April 19 2017 14:30 GMT
#147099
On April 19 2017 23:25 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 19 2017 22:41 LightSpectra wrote:
Well good to hear that Trump is ok with the Iran deal now, now if whoever convinced him of that could also do the same for North Korea and Syra that'd be fantastic.

North Korea and Iran couldn't be two more dissimilar situations.


They're actually not quite so different: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agreed_Framework

The U.S. negotiated a deal with NK in 1994, where they would freeze their research into nuclear power/weapons in exchange for light water reactors. But it was terminated by George W. Bush.

On April 19 2017 23:29 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 19 2017 23:25 KwarK wrote:
On April 19 2017 22:41 LightSpectra wrote:
Well good to hear that Trump is ok with the Iran deal now, now if whoever convinced him of that could also do the same for North Korea and Syra that'd be fantastic.

North Korea and Iran couldn't be two more dissimilar situations.

The same with Syria. That civil war rose up all on its own.


Syria's a much different case, granted. But if the doves can win over Trump on Iran and NK, it's possible they can do the same on Syria.
"don't try to pull a LightSpectra-Trumper"
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18869 Posts
April 19 2017 14:34 GMT
#147100
Similarities across diplomatic histories don't really supersede the jarring differences between Iran and NK that manifest in most other frameworks of comparison, be they religious, economic, political, social, or a mixture.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
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