• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 20:53
CET 02:53
KST 10:53
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT28Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
Weekly Cups (Feb 16-22): MaxPax doubles0Weekly Cups (Feb 9-15): herO doubles up2ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/0247LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16)46Weekly Cups (Feb 2-8): Classic, Solar, MaxPax win2
StarCraft 2
General
How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game? Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book
Tourneys
SEL Doubles (SC Evo Bimonthly) WardiTV Team League Season 10 PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) RSL Season 4 announced for March-April The Dave Testa Open #11
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026] Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 514 Ulnar New Year The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 513 Attrition Warfare Mutation # 512 Overclocked
Brood War
General
TvZ is the most complete match up Soma Explains: JD's Unrelenting Aggro vs FlaSh CasterMuse Youtube ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/02 BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 1 [LIVE] [S:21] ASL Season Open Day 1
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Zealot bombing is no longer popular?
Other Games
General Games
Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Beyond All Reason New broswer game : STG-World
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread Mexico's Drug War Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
YOUTUBE VIDEO
XenOsky
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Inside the Communication of …
TrAiDoS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2257 users

US Politics Mega-thread - Page 7050

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
Prev 1 7048 7049 7050 7051 7052 10093 Next
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
March 05 2017 23:25 GMT
#140981
On March 06 2017 08:18 pmh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 06 2017 06:55 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On March 06 2017 06:51 LegalLord wrote:
On March 06 2017 06:49 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On March 06 2017 06:40 LegalLord wrote:
"Worst" is fine. You have to be quite bad a candidate to lose to Trump.

That or maybe he was not as bad as a candidate as you think. He played the populist card very well, and apparently being a narcissistic bully that just says anything people want to hear can be a great asset. He just happens to be a potent candidate and an absolutely terrible president.

The narrative "Trump was terrible and only won because of how shit Hillary was" only get you so far. Clinton was uber qualified, serious, articulate, and it's very possible any other candidate would have faced the same barrage of insults and hatred she got. If it takes a pseudo scandal like the email server to get a democratic candidate down, nobody would have won.

I'm not saying she was perfect, but she was more than decent. It just happened that Trump managed to secure the white working class, which probably no other conservative candidate could have won at that point.

You underestimate just how much people here in the states don't like Hillary. She would have been beaten by most Republicans easily. Everyone except Trump was favored against her.

Maybe. I think it really doesn't matter at that point.

The reality is that a lot of people voted for a man that is unqualified, has a horrible and crazily unstable personality, and was by all accounts a thousand times worse than Clinton, whichever way you want to look at it; and they are the first responsibles for what's going on.

And I still think that the big story this election is not so much people getting offended by Hillary as people agreeing with Trump's wall, muslim ban, and xenophobic, populistic message.



The "progressive" upper middle class elite in the usa they live in a bubble,they don't fully understand what is going on outside their bubble,they think everyone is like them and doing well. That is why it was such a big surprise for them that they lost. They still can not fully grasp it.

People did not vote for trump so much,his qualifications where largely irrelevant at that point I think. People voted against a system and a traditional elite,against a direction that the country was going. I will say it again and I can say this a thousand times but most people wont accept it. Current levels of inequality are not sustainable in a western democracy,

Well, if you accept this argument, then you also accept that people voted against the "traditional elite" by electing a member of the absolute upper echelon of the elite (the 1% of the 1%, if you will).

Which really just means people are stupid and easily lied to, which is an answer I'm fine with.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22103 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-05 23:30:02
March 05 2017 23:25 GMT
#140982
On March 06 2017 08:18 pmh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 06 2017 06:55 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On March 06 2017 06:51 LegalLord wrote:
On March 06 2017 06:49 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On March 06 2017 06:40 LegalLord wrote:
"Worst" is fine. You have to be quite bad a candidate to lose to Trump.

That or maybe he was not as bad as a candidate as you think. He played the populist card very well, and apparently being a narcissistic bully that just says anything people want to hear can be a great asset. He just happens to be a potent candidate and an absolutely terrible president.

The narrative "Trump was terrible and only won because of how shit Hillary was" only get you so far. Clinton was uber qualified, serious, articulate, and it's very possible any other candidate would have faced the same barrage of insults and hatred she got. If it takes a pseudo scandal like the email server to get a democratic candidate down, nobody would have won.

I'm not saying she was perfect, but she was more than decent. It just happened that Trump managed to secure the white working class, which probably no other conservative candidate could have won at that point.

You underestimate just how much people here in the states don't like Hillary. She would have been beaten by most Republicans easily. Everyone except Trump was favored against her.

Maybe. I think it really doesn't matter at that point.

The reality is that a lot of people voted for a man that is unqualified, has a horrible and crazily unstable personality, and was by all accounts a thousand times worse than Clinton, whichever way you want to look at it; and they are the first responsibles for what's going on.

And I still think that the big story this election is not so much people getting offended by Hillary as people agreeing with Trump's wall, muslim ban, and xenophobic, populistic message.



The "progressive" upper middle class elite in the usa they live in a bubble,they don't fully understand what is going on outside their bubble,they think everyone is like them and doing well. That is why it was such a big surprise for them that they lost. They still can not fully grasp it.

People did not vote for trump so much,his qualifications where largely irrelevant at that point I think. People voted against a system and a traditional elite,against a direction that the country was going. I will say it again and I can say this a thousand times but most people wont accept it. Current levels of inequality are not sustainable in a western democracy,

And as a result of their vote inequality will rise, living standards will drop and next time they go back to voting for the 'traditional elite'.

People wanne change the world? Start small with local candidates who want to reduce inequality with an actual plan and work up from there. You don't vote for a random monkey and hope he produces Shakespeare by accident.

On March 06 2017 08:25 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 06 2017 08:18 pmh wrote:
On March 06 2017 06:55 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On March 06 2017 06:51 LegalLord wrote:
On March 06 2017 06:49 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On March 06 2017 06:40 LegalLord wrote:
"Worst" is fine. You have to be quite bad a candidate to lose to Trump.

That or maybe he was not as bad as a candidate as you think. He played the populist card very well, and apparently being a narcissistic bully that just says anything people want to hear can be a great asset. He just happens to be a potent candidate and an absolutely terrible president.

The narrative "Trump was terrible and only won because of how shit Hillary was" only get you so far. Clinton was uber qualified, serious, articulate, and it's very possible any other candidate would have faced the same barrage of insults and hatred she got. If it takes a pseudo scandal like the email server to get a democratic candidate down, nobody would have won.

I'm not saying she was perfect, but she was more than decent. It just happened that Trump managed to secure the white working class, which probably no other conservative candidate could have won at that point.

You underestimate just how much people here in the states don't like Hillary. She would have been beaten by most Republicans easily. Everyone except Trump was favored against her.

Maybe. I think it really doesn't matter at that point.

The reality is that a lot of people voted for a man that is unqualified, has a horrible and crazily unstable personality, and was by all accounts a thousand times worse than Clinton, whichever way you want to look at it; and they are the first responsibles for what's going on.

And I still think that the big story this election is not so much people getting offended by Hillary as people agreeing with Trump's wall, muslim ban, and xenophobic, populistic message.



The "progressive" upper middle class elite in the usa they live in a bubble,they don't fully understand what is going on outside their bubble,they think everyone is like them and doing well. That is why it was such a big surprise for them that they lost. They still can not fully grasp it.

People did not vote for trump so much,his qualifications where largely irrelevant at that point I think. People voted against a system and a traditional elite,against a direction that the country was going. I will say it again and I can say this a thousand times but most people wont accept it. Current levels of inequality are not sustainable in a western democracy,

Well, if you accept this argument, then you also accept that people voted against the "traditional elite" by electing a member of the absolute upper echelon of the elite (the 1% of the 1%, if you will).

Which really just means people are stupid and easily lied to, which is an answer I'm fine with.

And this, very much.
The whole 'drain the swamp' and ''I'm so rich I cant be bought" it just means you cut out the middle man and directly appointed the people you complained about in the first place.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23666 Posts
March 05 2017 23:29 GMT
#140983
I find it kind of funny that the deeper we look into this Russia thing the more clear it becomes the Russians never anticipated Trump winning. That it was an unintentional outcome rather than the point.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45309 Posts
March 05 2017 23:29 GMT
#140984
On March 06 2017 08:29 GreenHorizons wrote:
I find it kind of funny that the deeper we look into this Russia thing the more clear it becomes the Russians never anticipated Trump winning. That it was an unintentional outcome rather than the point.


What was the point then?
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
pmh
Profile Joined March 2016
1414 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-05 23:36:00
March 05 2017 23:29 GMT
#140985
Maybe next time a 3rd party has a good change,if only sanders would start his own.
Ross Perot was the last 3rd party candidate who did reasonably well I think, maybe next election it is time for a real breakthrough. Just need a credible person with the guts to do it,sanders is the only credible person I can see for now but others could come up.
If trump messes up very badly,there could be a significant 3rd party on the left of the democrats without risking a republican win.


I have to admit that I also do not see how trump is favorable for the rusians,he can not give them the policys they want anyway because there are so many other people who also have a say (like the generals in the administration,congress,the senate,the financial shadow government (just kidding)). If anything he made the situation more unstable and I don't see how that is directly in rusias favor. Maybe the point of the operation was just to mock and mess around a bit,like the usa and rusia did all the time during the cold war.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22103 Posts
March 05 2017 23:31 GMT
#140986
On March 06 2017 08:29 pmh wrote:
Maybe next time a 3rd party has a good change,if only sanders would start his own.
Ross Perot was the last 3rd party candidate who did reasonably well I think, maybe next election it is time for a real breakthrough. Just need a credible person with the guts to do it,sanders is the only credible person I can see for now but others could come up.
If trump messes up very badly,there could be a 3rd party on the left of the democrats without risking a republican win.

Not a chance. There is a solid base on both sides that would vote for anyone so long as there is a D or R next to their name.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23666 Posts
March 05 2017 23:34 GMT
#140987
On March 06 2017 08:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 06 2017 08:29 GreenHorizons wrote:
I find it kind of funny that the deeper we look into this Russia thing the more clear it becomes the Russians never anticipated Trump winning. That it was an unintentional outcome rather than the point.


What was the point then?


To bog Clinton down domestically so that her attention on global affairs was more limited, and just generally cause disruption of our perception of our electoral system (which is obviously massively distorted already).
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
March 05 2017 23:50 GMT
#140988
note: i'm not responding to anyone cuz I've chosen specifically to disengage with the discussion for a bit. didn't look like there was anything truly worth responding to anyways.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45309 Posts
March 05 2017 23:52 GMT
#140989
On March 06 2017 08:34 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 06 2017 08:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On March 06 2017 08:29 GreenHorizons wrote:
I find it kind of funny that the deeper we look into this Russia thing the more clear it becomes the Russians never anticipated Trump winning. That it was an unintentional outcome rather than the point.


What was the point then?


To bog Clinton down domestically so that her attention on global affairs was more limited, and just generally cause disruption of our perception of our electoral system (which is obviously massively distorted already).


I'm not sure how the Russians colluding with the Trump campaign would have bogged Clinton down domestically if Trump lost though. Wouldn't it have made more sense for the Russians to try and befriend the legislative or judicial branches, rather than a potential executive branch (future Trump administration) that wouldn't have existed- by definition- if Clinton had won?
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-05 23:58:10
March 05 2017 23:55 GMT
#140990
On March 06 2017 08:52 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 06 2017 08:34 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 06 2017 08:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On March 06 2017 08:29 GreenHorizons wrote:
I find it kind of funny that the deeper we look into this Russia thing the more clear it becomes the Russians never anticipated Trump winning. That it was an unintentional outcome rather than the point.


What was the point then?


To bog Clinton down domestically so that her attention on global affairs was more limited, and just generally cause disruption of our perception of our electoral system (which is obviously massively distorted already).


I'm not sure how the Russians colluding with the Trump campaign would have bogged Clinton down domestically if Trump lost though. Wouldn't it have made more sense for the Russians to try and befriend the legislative or judicial branches, rather than a potential executive branch (future Trump administration) that wouldn't have existed- by definition- if Clinton had won?

Trump would sit by the sidelines and constantly insinuate that Hillary rigged the election (and his loyalists would believe it), Republicans and Democrats would still be in deadlock, no one would forget the reasons why Hillary isn't well-loved, and in general it would look like ugly either way.

Keep in mind - a friendlier "deal" for Russia was probably not going to happen. There is just too much resistance to that in the US.

One way or another, though, Trump winning is still a bonus. A gift that keeps on giving.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45309 Posts
March 05 2017 23:57 GMT
#140991
On March 06 2017 08:55 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 06 2017 08:52 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On March 06 2017 08:34 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 06 2017 08:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On March 06 2017 08:29 GreenHorizons wrote:
I find it kind of funny that the deeper we look into this Russia thing the more clear it becomes the Russians never anticipated Trump winning. That it was an unintentional outcome rather than the point.


What was the point then?


To bog Clinton down domestically so that her attention on global affairs was more limited, and just generally cause disruption of our perception of our electoral system (which is obviously massively distorted already).


I'm not sure how the Russians colluding with the Trump campaign would have bogged Clinton down domestically if Trump lost though. Wouldn't it have made more sense for the Russians to try and befriend the legislative or judicial branches, rather than a potential executive branch (future Trump administration) that wouldn't have existed- by definition- if Clinton had won?

Trump would sit by the sidelines and constantly insinuate that Hillary rigged the election (and his loyalists would believe her), Republicans and Democrats would still be in deadlock, no one would forget the reasons why Hillary isn't well-loved, and in general it would look like ugly either way.

Keep in mind - a friendlier "deal" for Russia was probably not going to happen. There is just too much resistance to that in the US.


Yeah but I don't think the number of his loyalists would have increased... they're the same people who believed his Obama birther nonsense, and that lie didn't bog down Obama when he was in office... it was Congress that bogged him down.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23666 Posts
March 05 2017 23:58 GMT
#140992
On March 06 2017 08:52 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 06 2017 08:34 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 06 2017 08:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On March 06 2017 08:29 GreenHorizons wrote:
I find it kind of funny that the deeper we look into this Russia thing the more clear it becomes the Russians never anticipated Trump winning. That it was an unintentional outcome rather than the point.


What was the point then?


To bog Clinton down domestically so that her attention on global affairs was more limited, and just generally cause disruption of our perception of our electoral system (which is obviously massively distorted already).


I'm not sure how the Russians colluding with the Trump campaign would have bogged Clinton down domestically if Trump lost though. Wouldn't it have made more sense for the Russians to try and befriend the legislative or judicial branches, rather than a potential executive branch (future Trump administration) that wouldn't have existed- by definition- if Clinton had won?


Trump would basically be their pocket troll, to disrupt any and everything Clinton wanted to do. As has been shown, he'll repeat practically anything without having the vaguest clue what he's talking about. So it would have been easy to feed him whatever they wanted to have on every American news outlet.

Him being president is probably more problematic for them than it would have been for him to lose. Certainly would be less attention paid to their influencing.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
March 05 2017 23:59 GMT
#140993
Wasn't the whole meeting Flynn got in trouble with about removing sanctions on Russia?
Average means I'm better than half of you.
Leporello
Profile Joined January 2011
United States2845 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-06 00:06:20
March 06 2017 00:03 GMT
#140994
On March 06 2017 08:55 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 06 2017 08:52 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On March 06 2017 08:34 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 06 2017 08:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On March 06 2017 08:29 GreenHorizons wrote:
I find it kind of funny that the deeper we look into this Russia thing the more clear it becomes the Russians never anticipated Trump winning. That it was an unintentional outcome rather than the point.


What was the point then?


To bog Clinton down domestically so that her attention on global affairs was more limited, and just generally cause disruption of our perception of our electoral system (which is obviously massively distorted already).


I'm not sure how the Russians colluding with the Trump campaign would have bogged Clinton down domestically if Trump lost though. Wouldn't it have made more sense for the Russians to try and befriend the legislative or judicial branches, rather than a potential executive branch (future Trump administration) that wouldn't have existed- by definition- if Clinton had won?

Trump would sit by the sidelines and constantly insinuate that Hillary rigged the election (and his loyalists would believe it), Republicans and Democrats would still be in deadlock, no one would forget the reasons why Hillary isn't well-loved, and in general it would look like ugly either way.

Keep in mind - a friendlier "deal" for Russia was probably not going to happen. There is just too much resistance to that in the US.

Yeah, that's the problem /sarcasm


I think, purely hypothesizing, that what Russia hoped to gain from Trump was gained before he even ran for President. Years before.

I think Trump's no-tax-returns and strange Russian-favoritism puts his "Birther" movement in a new light. I honestly think Trump was paid to be a political agitator. Taking loans, maybe some Russian bank did him a favor with the caveat that he use his clown act to feed the right-wing American masses some crazy bullshit, a job that suits a con-man like a glove. Just to stir America's pot of deplorables, and create more general apathy.

I don't think he is a "Manchurian Candidate". But I do think he has Russian money, and that has obviously influenced his politics to a degree that should be unacceptable to everyone -- regardless of which country his conflicted interests lie with, and regardless of your politics.
Big water
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
March 06 2017 00:06 GMT
#140995
On March 06 2017 08:58 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 06 2017 08:52 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On March 06 2017 08:34 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 06 2017 08:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On March 06 2017 08:29 GreenHorizons wrote:
I find it kind of funny that the deeper we look into this Russia thing the more clear it becomes the Russians never anticipated Trump winning. That it was an unintentional outcome rather than the point.


What was the point then?


To bog Clinton down domestically so that her attention on global affairs was more limited, and just generally cause disruption of our perception of our electoral system (which is obviously massively distorted already).


I'm not sure how the Russians colluding with the Trump campaign would have bogged Clinton down domestically if Trump lost though. Wouldn't it have made more sense for the Russians to try and befriend the legislative or judicial branches, rather than a potential executive branch (future Trump administration) that wouldn't have existed- by definition- if Clinton had won?

Him being president is probably more problematic for them than it would have been for him to lose. Certainly would be less attention paid to their influencing.

I don't think it's too much of a problem really. They have the Senate bogged down in procedures long enough to make Trump sign off to make it legal. That, or we're so far away from actually looking at how to do anything about Russia specifically that it will be years before we actually get there - and frankly it would be surprising if the sentiment weren't more along the lines of, "we should let it go, it's been years" by then.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23666 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-06 00:15:40
March 06 2017 00:08 GMT
#140996
On March 06 2017 09:03 Leporello wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 06 2017 08:55 LegalLord wrote:
On March 06 2017 08:52 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On March 06 2017 08:34 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 06 2017 08:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On March 06 2017 08:29 GreenHorizons wrote:
I find it kind of funny that the deeper we look into this Russia thing the more clear it becomes the Russians never anticipated Trump winning. That it was an unintentional outcome rather than the point.


What was the point then?


To bog Clinton down domestically so that her attention on global affairs was more limited, and just generally cause disruption of our perception of our electoral system (which is obviously massively distorted already).


I'm not sure how the Russians colluding with the Trump campaign would have bogged Clinton down domestically if Trump lost though. Wouldn't it have made more sense for the Russians to try and befriend the legislative or judicial branches, rather than a potential executive branch (future Trump administration) that wouldn't have existed- by definition- if Clinton had won?

Trump would sit by the sidelines and constantly insinuate that Hillary rigged the election (and his loyalists would believe it), Republicans and Democrats would still be in deadlock, no one would forget the reasons why Hillary isn't well-loved, and in general it would look like ugly either way.

Keep in mind - a friendlier "deal" for Russia was probably not going to happen. There is just too much resistance to that in the US.

Yeah, that's the problem /sarcasm


I think, purely hypothesizing, that what Russia hoped to gain from Trump was gained before he even ran for President. Years before.

I think Trump's no-tax-returns and strange Russian-favoritism puts his "Birther" movement in a new light. I honestly think Trump was paid to be a political agitator. Taking loans, maybe some Russian bank did him a favor with the caveat that he use his clown act to feed the right-wing American masses some crazy bullshit, a job that suits a con-man like a glove.

I don't think he is a "Manchurian Candidate". But I do think he has Russian money, and that has obviously influenced his politics to a degree that should be unacceptable to everyone -- regardless of which country his conflicted interests lie with, and regardless of your politics.


Yeah, from what I've read it looks like he was more of a political hitman than a Manchurian. The money connection looks pretty clear.

The whole selling a mansion for more 2x what you paid for it to a front for a Russian billionaire, then he never visits it and plans to just tear it down doesn't look great.

On March 06 2017 09:06 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 06 2017 08:58 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 06 2017 08:52 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On March 06 2017 08:34 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 06 2017 08:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On March 06 2017 08:29 GreenHorizons wrote:
I find it kind of funny that the deeper we look into this Russia thing the more clear it becomes the Russians never anticipated Trump winning. That it was an unintentional outcome rather than the point.


What was the point then?


To bog Clinton down domestically so that her attention on global affairs was more limited, and just generally cause disruption of our perception of our electoral system (which is obviously massively distorted already).


I'm not sure how the Russians colluding with the Trump campaign would have bogged Clinton down domestically if Trump lost though. Wouldn't it have made more sense for the Russians to try and befriend the legislative or judicial branches, rather than a potential executive branch (future Trump administration) that wouldn't have existed- by definition- if Clinton had won?

Him being president is probably more problematic for them than it would have been for him to lose. Certainly would be less attention paid to their influencing.

I don't think it's too much of a problem really. They have the Senate bogged down in procedures long enough to make Trump sign off to make it legal. That, or we're so far away from actually looking at how to do anything about Russia specifically that it will be years before we actually get there - and frankly it would be surprising if the sentiment weren't more along the lines of, "we should let it go, it's been years" by then.


I don't think Republicans have 4 years of dealing with Trump's stupidity in them. Sooner or later he'll say or do something (or enough somethings) that they see it will be easier for them to cut and run then to try to rationalize and justify his actions.

Comically enough that Trump is habitually golfing after ripping Obama for golfing has some of his supporters realizing how full of shit he is.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 06 2017 00:09 GMT
#140997



Also N. Korea appears to have test fired another missile.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-06 00:27:12
March 06 2017 00:26 GMT
#140998
On March 06 2017 09:08 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 06 2017 09:06 LegalLord wrote:
On March 06 2017 08:58 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 06 2017 08:52 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On March 06 2017 08:34 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 06 2017 08:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On March 06 2017 08:29 GreenHorizons wrote:
I find it kind of funny that the deeper we look into this Russia thing the more clear it becomes the Russians never anticipated Trump winning. That it was an unintentional outcome rather than the point.


What was the point then?


To bog Clinton down domestically so that her attention on global affairs was more limited, and just generally cause disruption of our perception of our electoral system (which is obviously massively distorted already).


I'm not sure how the Russians colluding with the Trump campaign would have bogged Clinton down domestically if Trump lost though. Wouldn't it have made more sense for the Russians to try and befriend the legislative or judicial branches, rather than a potential executive branch (future Trump administration) that wouldn't have existed- by definition- if Clinton had won?

Him being president is probably more problematic for them than it would have been for him to lose. Certainly would be less attention paid to their influencing.

I don't think it's too much of a problem really. They have the Senate bogged down in procedures long enough to make Trump sign off to make it legal. That, or we're so far away from actually looking at how to do anything about Russia specifically that it will be years before we actually get there - and frankly it would be surprising if the sentiment weren't more along the lines of, "we should let it go, it's been years" by then.


I don't think Republicans have 4 years of dealing with Trump's stupidity in them. Sooner or later he'll say or do something (or enough somethings) that they see it will be easier for them to cut and run then to try to rationalize and justify his actions.

Comically enough that Trump is habitually golfing after ripping Obama for golfing has some of his supporters realizing how full of shit he is.

They would have probably cut him loose a long time ago, if not for this one little tidbit: he has an important base of support that they need to be on their side. And the Republicans themselves are not very popular. Cutting him loose would deal a painful blow to the party. So they will most likely keep this up as long as it takes to survive. It won't be pretty.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23666 Posts
March 06 2017 00:38 GMT
#140999
On March 06 2017 09:26 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 06 2017 09:08 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 06 2017 09:06 LegalLord wrote:
On March 06 2017 08:58 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 06 2017 08:52 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On March 06 2017 08:34 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 06 2017 08:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On March 06 2017 08:29 GreenHorizons wrote:
I find it kind of funny that the deeper we look into this Russia thing the more clear it becomes the Russians never anticipated Trump winning. That it was an unintentional outcome rather than the point.


What was the point then?


To bog Clinton down domestically so that her attention on global affairs was more limited, and just generally cause disruption of our perception of our electoral system (which is obviously massively distorted already).


I'm not sure how the Russians colluding with the Trump campaign would have bogged Clinton down domestically if Trump lost though. Wouldn't it have made more sense for the Russians to try and befriend the legislative or judicial branches, rather than a potential executive branch (future Trump administration) that wouldn't have existed- by definition- if Clinton had won?

Him being president is probably more problematic for them than it would have been for him to lose. Certainly would be less attention paid to their influencing.

I don't think it's too much of a problem really. They have the Senate bogged down in procedures long enough to make Trump sign off to make it legal. That, or we're so far away from actually looking at how to do anything about Russia specifically that it will be years before we actually get there - and frankly it would be surprising if the sentiment weren't more along the lines of, "we should let it go, it's been years" by then.


I don't think Republicans have 4 years of dealing with Trump's stupidity in them. Sooner or later he'll say or do something (or enough somethings) that they see it will be easier for them to cut and run then to try to rationalize and justify his actions.

Comically enough that Trump is habitually golfing after ripping Obama for golfing has some of his supporters realizing how full of shit he is.

They would have probably cut him loose a long time ago, if not for this one little tidbit: he has an important base of support that they need to be on their side. And the Republicans themselves are not very popular. Cutting him loose would deal a painful blow to the party. So they will most likely keep this up as long as it takes to survive. It won't be pretty.


People are fickle and if there's anything America loves, it's the epic and complete destruction of celebrities. You're right that it won't be led by DC, but there are plenty of Republicans rabid to fan the flames of his destruction once his base starts to become dissatisfied.

Usually the "cooler heads" of the party are there to circle the wagons and unite behind their figurehead, but Trump's got no one, once his base starts to smolder, the party loyalists will be there with bellows and gas instead of hoses.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
March 06 2017 00:43 GMT
#141000
In the meantime, we can enjoy as the ruling party struggles to maintain the illusion of consensus - both at home and abroad - and the Democrats still continue to presume that they can wait this out, changing nothing, and have a happy ending for it.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Prev 1 7048 7049 7050 7051 7052 10093 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
LiuLi Cup Grand Finals Group A
CranKy Ducklings120
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 182
SpeCial 156
Ketroc 27
Livibee 10
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 1655
Artosis 661
ggaemo 68
Dota 2
monkeys_forever242
League of Legends
Cuddl3bear3
Counter-Strike
taco 640
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox537
Other Games
summit1g11762
Day[9].tv641
JimRising 389
C9.Mang0354
WinterStarcraft180
ToD70
ViBE45
minikerr1
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1128
Counter-Strike
PGL210
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta31
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21505
League of Legends
• Doublelift4758
Other Games
• Day9tv641
• Shiphtur161
Upcoming Events
Big Brain Bouts
15h 8m
Shino vs DnS
SpeCial vs Mixu
TriGGeR vs Cure
Korean StarCraft League
1d 1h
CranKy Ducklings
1d 8h
OSC
1d 9h
SC Evo Complete
1d 11h
DaveTesta Events
1d 16h
AI Arena Tournament
1d 18h
Replay Cast
1d 22h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
KCM Race Survival
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-02-26
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Acropolis #4 - TS5
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
Spring Cup 2026
WardiTV Winter 2026
PiG Sty Festival 7.0
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025

Upcoming

[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round Qualifier
ASL Season 21: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 21: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
Acropolis #4
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
FISSURE Playground #3
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.