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On February 28 2017 09:52 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2017 08:59 Nemireck wrote:On February 28 2017 08:56 LegalLord wrote:
Anyone who has the appearance of being an upstanding citizen would do.
Knowing the DNC they will probably promote a DWS run or something though. In b4 Donna Brazile for 2020. It's the perfect strategy. Anyone who argues against her will be a racist and misogynist.
It worked so well in this election cycle, what could go wrong?
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On February 28 2017 08:27 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2017 08:21 Danglars wrote:On February 28 2017 07:53 LegalLord wrote:
The benefit of being out of power is that nothing is your fault anymore.
Democrats still somehow manage to be widely unpopular. NBC/WSJ Poll51% media has been too critical of Trump 53% "The news media and other elites are exaggerating the problems with the Trump administration because they are uncomfortable and threatened with the kind of change that Trump represents." Meanwhile: 44 vs 48 approval rating Obamacare: Even split on good idea/bad idea Only 4% "working well the way it is" rofl 1/3 confident in GOP's ability to replace the law Travel ban 44/45 practically dead even. Pretty hilarious given all the rhetoric saying it shouldn't be close. Consensus that Russia meddled somehow and support for the investigation. I'm slowly becoming convinced Democrats are losing on purpose. The ACA is toxic and they want to defend it instead of just pushing Medicare for all, which has almost no opposition and is far more popular than either repealing or keeping the ACA.
From the Indivisible Guide
SHOULDN'T WE PUT FORWARD AN ALTERNATE, POSITIVE AGENDA? A defensive strategy does not mean dropping your own policy priorities or staying silent on an alternate vision for our country over the next four years. What it means is that, when you’re trying to influence your MoC, you will have the most leverage when you are focused on the current legislative priority. You may not like the idea of being purely defensive; we certainly don’t. As progressives, our natural inclination is to talk about the things we’re for—a clean climate, economic justice, health care for all, racial equality, gender and sexual equality, and peace and human rights. These are the things that move us. But the hard truth of the next four years is that we’re not going to set the agenda; Trump and congressional Republicans will, and we’ll have to respond. The best way to stand up for the progressive values and policies we cherish is to stand together, indivisible—to treat an attack on one as an attack on all.
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On February 28 2017 10:13 Blisse wrote:
How would you guys feel if Clinton was named VP by whoever in 2020? Still her running, just not her name basically?
"No"
She should just get a lobbying position and rake in the fat checks while making her world-famous backroom deals. It would suit her.
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On February 28 2017 10:31 ChristianS wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2017 08:27 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 28 2017 08:21 Danglars wrote:On February 28 2017 07:53 LegalLord wrote:
The benefit of being out of power is that nothing is your fault anymore.
Democrats still somehow manage to be widely unpopular. NBC/WSJ Poll51% media has been too critical of Trump 53% "The news media and other elites are exaggerating the problems with the Trump administration because they are uncomfortable and threatened with the kind of change that Trump represents." Meanwhile: 44 vs 48 approval rating Obamacare: Even split on good idea/bad idea Only 4% "working well the way it is" rofl 1/3 confident in GOP's ability to replace the law Travel ban 44/45 practically dead even. Pretty hilarious given all the rhetoric saying it shouldn't be close. Consensus that Russia meddled somehow and support for the investigation. I'm slowly becoming convinced Democrats are losing on purpose. The ACA is toxic and they want to defend it instead of just pushing Medicare for all, which has almost no opposition and is far more popular than either repealing or keeping the ACA. From the Indivisible GuideShow nested quote +SHOULDN'T WE PUT FORWARD AN ALTERNATE, POSITIVE AGENDA? A defensive strategy does not mean dropping your own policy priorities or staying silent on an alternate vision for our country over the next four years. What it means is that, when you’re trying to influence your MoC, you will have the most leverage when you are focused on the current legislative priority. You may not like the idea of being purely defensive; we certainly don’t. As progressives, our natural inclination is to talk about the things we’re for—a clean climate, economic justice, health care for all, racial equality, gender and sexual equality, and peace and human rights. These are the things that move us. But the hard truth of the next four years is that we’re not going to set the agenda; Trump and congressional Republicans will, and we’ll have to respond. The best way to stand up for the progressive values and policies we cherish is to stand together, indivisible—to treat an attack on one as an attack on all. Dunno if you buy their argument, but the idea is that defending progress we've made is better strategy than offering positive alternatives as the minority party.
Yeah, I'm going to call a strategy of trying to lose less pretty terrible when they couldn't even hold shit together when they had power. They need a positive agenda or to get out of the way of folks who do.
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On February 28 2017 10:13 Blisse wrote:
How would you guys feel if Clinton was named VP by whoever in 2020? Still her running, just not her name basically?
Having her as the VP candidate would make me take a long look at whomever decided they needed to hitch their wagon to her.
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On February 28 2017 11:01 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2017 10:31 ChristianS wrote:On February 28 2017 08:27 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 28 2017 08:21 Danglars wrote:On February 28 2017 07:53 LegalLord wrote:
The benefit of being out of power is that nothing is your fault anymore.
Democrats still somehow manage to be widely unpopular. NBC/WSJ Poll51% media has been too critical of Trump 53% "The news media and other elites are exaggerating the problems with the Trump administration because they are uncomfortable and threatened with the kind of change that Trump represents." Meanwhile: 44 vs 48 approval rating Obamacare: Even split on good idea/bad idea Only 4% "working well the way it is" rofl 1/3 confident in GOP's ability to replace the law Travel ban 44/45 practically dead even. Pretty hilarious given all the rhetoric saying it shouldn't be close. Consensus that Russia meddled somehow and support for the investigation. I'm slowly becoming convinced Democrats are losing on purpose. The ACA is toxic and they want to defend it instead of just pushing Medicare for all, which has almost no opposition and is far more popular than either repealing or keeping the ACA. From the Indivisible GuideSHOULDN'T WE PUT FORWARD AN ALTERNATE, POSITIVE AGENDA? A defensive strategy does not mean dropping your own policy priorities or staying silent on an alternate vision for our country over the next four years. What it means is that, when you’re trying to influence your MoC, you will have the most leverage when you are focused on the current legislative priority. You may not like the idea of being purely defensive; we certainly don’t. As progressives, our natural inclination is to talk about the things we’re for—a clean climate, economic justice, health care for all, racial equality, gender and sexual equality, and peace and human rights. These are the things that move us. But the hard truth of the next four years is that we’re not going to set the agenda; Trump and congressional Republicans will, and we’ll have to respond. The best way to stand up for the progressive values and policies we cherish is to stand together, indivisible—to treat an attack on one as an attack on all. Dunno if you buy their argument, but the idea is that defending progress we've made is better strategy than offering positive alternatives as the minority party. Yeah, I'm going to call a strategy of trying to lose less pretty terrible when they couldn't even hold shit together when they had power. They need a positive agenda or to get out of the way of folks who do.
This all depends on how long it takes Trump to change the ACA. If midterms are coming up and we are still in a healthcare fight, Dems could easily run on the platform of saving healthcare without actually offering a huge idea for the future.
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Yeah I'm not entirely sure what said hypothetical candidate would be trying to accomplish with Hillary as VP. The people you'd appeal to with Hillary as VP would still vote for you if you picked a different "establishment DNC candidate" without the baggage of being a presidential loser.
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On February 28 2017 11:09 IyMoon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2017 11:01 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 28 2017 10:31 ChristianS wrote:On February 28 2017 08:27 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 28 2017 08:21 Danglars wrote:On February 28 2017 07:53 LegalLord wrote:
The benefit of being out of power is that nothing is your fault anymore.
Democrats still somehow manage to be widely unpopular. NBC/WSJ Poll51% media has been too critical of Trump 53% "The news media and other elites are exaggerating the problems with the Trump administration because they are uncomfortable and threatened with the kind of change that Trump represents." Meanwhile: 44 vs 48 approval rating Obamacare: Even split on good idea/bad idea Only 4% "working well the way it is" rofl 1/3 confident in GOP's ability to replace the law Travel ban 44/45 practically dead even. Pretty hilarious given all the rhetoric saying it shouldn't be close. Consensus that Russia meddled somehow and support for the investigation. I'm slowly becoming convinced Democrats are losing on purpose. The ACA is toxic and they want to defend it instead of just pushing Medicare for all, which has almost no opposition and is far more popular than either repealing or keeping the ACA. From the Indivisible GuideSHOULDN'T WE PUT FORWARD AN ALTERNATE, POSITIVE AGENDA? A defensive strategy does not mean dropping your own policy priorities or staying silent on an alternate vision for our country over the next four years. What it means is that, when you’re trying to influence your MoC, you will have the most leverage when you are focused on the current legislative priority. You may not like the idea of being purely defensive; we certainly don’t. As progressives, our natural inclination is to talk about the things we’re for—a clean climate, economic justice, health care for all, racial equality, gender and sexual equality, and peace and human rights. These are the things that move us. But the hard truth of the next four years is that we’re not going to set the agenda; Trump and congressional Republicans will, and we’ll have to respond. The best way to stand up for the progressive values and policies we cherish is to stand together, indivisible—to treat an attack on one as an attack on all. Dunno if you buy their argument, but the idea is that defending progress we've made is better strategy than offering positive alternatives as the minority party. Yeah, I'm going to call a strategy of trying to lose less pretty terrible when they couldn't even hold shit together when they had power. They need a positive agenda or to get out of the way of folks who do. This all depends on how long it takes Trump to change the ACA. If midterms are coming up and we are still in a healthcare fight, Dems could easily run on the platform of saving healthcare without actually offering a huge idea for the future.
Nothing is getting through the senate. Especial something inline with what the GOP was selling, defund PP, pre-existing conditions not protected.
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Did Trump just blame Obama for the people at Town halls?
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On February 28 2017 11:20 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2017 11:09 IyMoon wrote:On February 28 2017 11:01 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 28 2017 10:31 ChristianS wrote:On February 28 2017 08:27 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 28 2017 08:21 Danglars wrote:On February 28 2017 07:53 LegalLord wrote:
The benefit of being out of power is that nothing is your fault anymore.
Democrats still somehow manage to be widely unpopular. NBC/WSJ Poll51% media has been too critical of Trump 53% "The news media and other elites are exaggerating the problems with the Trump administration because they are uncomfortable and threatened with the kind of change that Trump represents." Meanwhile: 44 vs 48 approval rating Obamacare: Even split on good idea/bad idea Only 4% "working well the way it is" rofl 1/3 confident in GOP's ability to replace the law Travel ban 44/45 practically dead even. Pretty hilarious given all the rhetoric saying it shouldn't be close. Consensus that Russia meddled somehow and support for the investigation. I'm slowly becoming convinced Democrats are losing on purpose. The ACA is toxic and they want to defend it instead of just pushing Medicare for all, which has almost no opposition and is far more popular than either repealing or keeping the ACA. From the Indivisible GuideSHOULDN'T WE PUT FORWARD AN ALTERNATE, POSITIVE AGENDA? A defensive strategy does not mean dropping your own policy priorities or staying silent on an alternate vision for our country over the next four years. What it means is that, when you’re trying to influence your MoC, you will have the most leverage when you are focused on the current legislative priority. You may not like the idea of being purely defensive; we certainly don’t. As progressives, our natural inclination is to talk about the things we’re for—a clean climate, economic justice, health care for all, racial equality, gender and sexual equality, and peace and human rights. These are the things that move us. But the hard truth of the next four years is that we’re not going to set the agenda; Trump and congressional Republicans will, and we’ll have to respond. The best way to stand up for the progressive values and policies we cherish is to stand together, indivisible—to treat an attack on one as an attack on all. Dunno if you buy their argument, but the idea is that defending progress we've made is better strategy than offering positive alternatives as the minority party. Yeah, I'm going to call a strategy of trying to lose less pretty terrible when they couldn't even hold shit together when they had power. They need a positive agenda or to get out of the way of folks who do. This all depends on how long it takes Trump to change the ACA. If midterms are coming up and we are still in a healthcare fight, Dems could easily run on the platform of saving healthcare without actually offering a huge idea for the future. Nothing is getting through the senate. Especial something inline with what the GOP was selling, defund PP, pre-existing conditions not protected.
I agree, and I think Dems might just run on "We will continue to protect what you care about" Instead of "here is our path"
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On February 28 2017 11:01 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2017 10:31 ChristianS wrote:On February 28 2017 08:27 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 28 2017 08:21 Danglars wrote:On February 28 2017 07:53 LegalLord wrote:
The benefit of being out of power is that nothing is your fault anymore.
Democrats still somehow manage to be widely unpopular. NBC/WSJ Poll51% media has been too critical of Trump 53% "The news media and other elites are exaggerating the problems with the Trump administration because they are uncomfortable and threatened with the kind of change that Trump represents." Meanwhile: 44 vs 48 approval rating Obamacare: Even split on good idea/bad idea Only 4% "working well the way it is" rofl 1/3 confident in GOP's ability to replace the law Travel ban 44/45 practically dead even. Pretty hilarious given all the rhetoric saying it shouldn't be close. Consensus that Russia meddled somehow and support for the investigation. I'm slowly becoming convinced Democrats are losing on purpose. The ACA is toxic and they want to defend it instead of just pushing Medicare for all, which has almost no opposition and is far more popular than either repealing or keeping the ACA. From the Indivisible GuideSHOULDN'T WE PUT FORWARD AN ALTERNATE, POSITIVE AGENDA? A defensive strategy does not mean dropping your own policy priorities or staying silent on an alternate vision for our country over the next four years. What it means is that, when you’re trying to influence your MoC, you will have the most leverage when you are focused on the current legislative priority. You may not like the idea of being purely defensive; we certainly don’t. As progressives, our natural inclination is to talk about the things we’re for—a clean climate, economic justice, health care for all, racial equality, gender and sexual equality, and peace and human rights. These are the things that move us. But the hard truth of the next four years is that we’re not going to set the agenda; Trump and congressional Republicans will, and we’ll have to respond. The best way to stand up for the progressive values and policies we cherish is to stand together, indivisible—to treat an attack on one as an attack on all. Dunno if you buy their argument, but the idea is that defending progress we've made is better strategy than offering positive alternatives as the minority party. Yeah, I'm going to call a strategy of trying to lose less pretty terrible when they couldn't even hold shit together when they had power. They need a positive agenda or to get out of the way of folks who do.
Are you familiar with that guide? It's based on the tactics the Tea Party used under Obama to strengthen Republican opposition and weaken Democratic resolve. I have to say it worked pretty well for the Tea Party.
I get that losing less isn't as exciting a prospect. But are you the kinda guy that goes all in with a pair of twos because he doesn't like the idea of "losing less" by folding?
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On February 28 2017 11:20 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2017 11:09 IyMoon wrote:On February 28 2017 11:01 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 28 2017 10:31 ChristianS wrote:On February 28 2017 08:27 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 28 2017 08:21 Danglars wrote:On February 28 2017 07:53 LegalLord wrote:
The benefit of being out of power is that nothing is your fault anymore.
Democrats still somehow manage to be widely unpopular. NBC/WSJ Poll51% media has been too critical of Trump 53% "The news media and other elites are exaggerating the problems with the Trump administration because they are uncomfortable and threatened with the kind of change that Trump represents." Meanwhile: 44 vs 48 approval rating Obamacare: Even split on good idea/bad idea Only 4% "working well the way it is" rofl 1/3 confident in GOP's ability to replace the law Travel ban 44/45 practically dead even. Pretty hilarious given all the rhetoric saying it shouldn't be close. Consensus that Russia meddled somehow and support for the investigation. I'm slowly becoming convinced Democrats are losing on purpose. The ACA is toxic and they want to defend it instead of just pushing Medicare for all, which has almost no opposition and is far more popular than either repealing or keeping the ACA. From the Indivisible GuideSHOULDN'T WE PUT FORWARD AN ALTERNATE, POSITIVE AGENDA? A defensive strategy does not mean dropping your own policy priorities or staying silent on an alternate vision for our country over the next four years. What it means is that, when you’re trying to influence your MoC, you will have the most leverage when you are focused on the current legislative priority. You may not like the idea of being purely defensive; we certainly don’t. As progressives, our natural inclination is to talk about the things we’re for—a clean climate, economic justice, health care for all, racial equality, gender and sexual equality, and peace and human rights. These are the things that move us. But the hard truth of the next four years is that we’re not going to set the agenda; Trump and congressional Republicans will, and we’ll have to respond. The best way to stand up for the progressive values and policies we cherish is to stand together, indivisible—to treat an attack on one as an attack on all. Dunno if you buy their argument, but the idea is that defending progress we've made is better strategy than offering positive alternatives as the minority party. Yeah, I'm going to call a strategy of trying to lose less pretty terrible when they couldn't even hold shit together when they had power. They need a positive agenda or to get out of the way of folks who do. This all depends on how long it takes Trump to change the ACA. If midterms are coming up and we are still in a healthcare fight, Dems could easily run on the platform of saving healthcare without actually offering a huge idea for the future. Nothing is getting through the senate. Especial something inline with what the GOP was selling, defund PP, pre-existing conditions not protected.
I can see Democrats stopping something like repealing the ACA, but there's enough ""centrist Democrats" for them to get legislation voted on. Meaning there's enough Dems that won't fight everything and will allow Republicans a vote on some things.
On February 28 2017 11:55 ChristianS wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2017 11:01 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 28 2017 10:31 ChristianS wrote:On February 28 2017 08:27 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 28 2017 08:21 Danglars wrote:On February 28 2017 07:53 LegalLord wrote:
The benefit of being out of power is that nothing is your fault anymore.
Democrats still somehow manage to be widely unpopular. NBC/WSJ Poll51% media has been too critical of Trump 53% "The news media and other elites are exaggerating the problems with the Trump administration because they are uncomfortable and threatened with the kind of change that Trump represents." Meanwhile: 44 vs 48 approval rating Obamacare: Even split on good idea/bad idea Only 4% "working well the way it is" rofl 1/3 confident in GOP's ability to replace the law Travel ban 44/45 practically dead even. Pretty hilarious given all the rhetoric saying it shouldn't be close. Consensus that Russia meddled somehow and support for the investigation. I'm slowly becoming convinced Democrats are losing on purpose. The ACA is toxic and they want to defend it instead of just pushing Medicare for all, which has almost no opposition and is far more popular than either repealing or keeping the ACA. From the Indivisible GuideSHOULDN'T WE PUT FORWARD AN ALTERNATE, POSITIVE AGENDA? A defensive strategy does not mean dropping your own policy priorities or staying silent on an alternate vision for our country over the next four years. What it means is that, when you’re trying to influence your MoC, you will have the most leverage when you are focused on the current legislative priority. You may not like the idea of being purely defensive; we certainly don’t. As progressives, our natural inclination is to talk about the things we’re for—a clean climate, economic justice, health care for all, racial equality, gender and sexual equality, and peace and human rights. These are the things that move us. But the hard truth of the next four years is that we’re not going to set the agenda; Trump and congressional Republicans will, and we’ll have to respond. The best way to stand up for the progressive values and policies we cherish is to stand together, indivisible—to treat an attack on one as an attack on all. Dunno if you buy their argument, but the idea is that defending progress we've made is better strategy than offering positive alternatives as the minority party. Yeah, I'm going to call a strategy of trying to lose less pretty terrible when they couldn't even hold shit together when they had power. They need a positive agenda or to get out of the way of folks who do. Are you familiar with that guide? It's based on the tactics the Tea Party used under Obama to strengthen Republican opposition and weaken Democratic resolve. I have to say it worked pretty well for the Tea Party. I get that losing less isn't as exciting a prospect. But are you the kinda guy that goes all in with a pair of twos because he doesn't like the idea of "losing less" by folding?
The guide is alright, except the part they didn't really cover was that the Tea party didn't just target Democrats and anti-Obama, it was against DC in general, regardless of party. It forced Republicans to say and do things they didn't want to but had to if they didn't want to lose their base. That's the part that's missing and I'm emphasizing. Nothing wrong with resisting Trump, but Dems showed that it's not enough, people need a positive message about how things are going to be better than Obama, not less bad than Trump.
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On February 28 2017 12:08 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2017 11:20 Plansix wrote:On February 28 2017 11:09 IyMoon wrote:On February 28 2017 11:01 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 28 2017 10:31 ChristianS wrote:On February 28 2017 08:27 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 28 2017 08:21 Danglars wrote:On February 28 2017 07:53 LegalLord wrote:
The benefit of being out of power is that nothing is your fault anymore.
Democrats still somehow manage to be widely unpopular. NBC/WSJ Poll51% media has been too critical of Trump 53% "The news media and other elites are exaggerating the problems with the Trump administration because they are uncomfortable and threatened with the kind of change that Trump represents." Meanwhile: 44 vs 48 approval rating Obamacare: Even split on good idea/bad idea Only 4% "working well the way it is" rofl 1/3 confident in GOP's ability to replace the law Travel ban 44/45 practically dead even. Pretty hilarious given all the rhetoric saying it shouldn't be close. Consensus that Russia meddled somehow and support for the investigation. I'm slowly becoming convinced Democrats are losing on purpose. The ACA is toxic and they want to defend it instead of just pushing Medicare for all, which has almost no opposition and is far more popular than either repealing or keeping the ACA. From the Indivisible GuideSHOULDN'T WE PUT FORWARD AN ALTERNATE, POSITIVE AGENDA? A defensive strategy does not mean dropping your own policy priorities or staying silent on an alternate vision for our country over the next four years. What it means is that, when you’re trying to influence your MoC, you will have the most leverage when you are focused on the current legislative priority. You may not like the idea of being purely defensive; we certainly don’t. As progressives, our natural inclination is to talk about the things we’re for—a clean climate, economic justice, health care for all, racial equality, gender and sexual equality, and peace and human rights. These are the things that move us. But the hard truth of the next four years is that we’re not going to set the agenda; Trump and congressional Republicans will, and we’ll have to respond. The best way to stand up for the progressive values and policies we cherish is to stand together, indivisible—to treat an attack on one as an attack on all. Dunno if you buy their argument, but the idea is that defending progress we've made is better strategy than offering positive alternatives as the minority party. Yeah, I'm going to call a strategy of trying to lose less pretty terrible when they couldn't even hold shit together when they had power. They need a positive agenda or to get out of the way of folks who do. This all depends on how long it takes Trump to change the ACA. If midterms are coming up and we are still in a healthcare fight, Dems could easily run on the platform of saving healthcare without actually offering a huge idea for the future. Nothing is getting through the senate. Especial something inline with what the GOP was selling, defund PP, pre-existing conditions not protected. I can see Democrats stopping something like repealing the ACA, but there's enough ""centrist Democrats" for them to get legislation voted on. Meaning there's enough Dems that won't fight everything and will allow Republicans a vote on some things.
The show down will be over the Supreme Court seat and the democrats who are in states Trump carried. If they are up for election in 2018, they might cave. But I doubt it. There is nothing to gain by working with the GOP right now. Stalling out the Supreme Court poisoned the senate so no one wants to flip.
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On February 28 2017 12:14 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2017 12:08 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 28 2017 11:20 Plansix wrote:On February 28 2017 11:09 IyMoon wrote:On February 28 2017 11:01 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 28 2017 10:31 ChristianS wrote:On February 28 2017 08:27 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 28 2017 08:21 Danglars wrote:On February 28 2017 07:53 LegalLord wrote:
The benefit of being out of power is that nothing is your fault anymore.
Democrats still somehow manage to be widely unpopular. NBC/WSJ Poll51% media has been too critical of Trump 53% "The news media and other elites are exaggerating the problems with the Trump administration because they are uncomfortable and threatened with the kind of change that Trump represents." Meanwhile: 44 vs 48 approval rating Obamacare: Even split on good idea/bad idea Only 4% "working well the way it is" rofl 1/3 confident in GOP's ability to replace the law Travel ban 44/45 practically dead even. Pretty hilarious given all the rhetoric saying it shouldn't be close. Consensus that Russia meddled somehow and support for the investigation. I'm slowly becoming convinced Democrats are losing on purpose. The ACA is toxic and they want to defend it instead of just pushing Medicare for all, which has almost no opposition and is far more popular than either repealing or keeping the ACA. From the Indivisible GuideSHOULDN'T WE PUT FORWARD AN ALTERNATE, POSITIVE AGENDA? A defensive strategy does not mean dropping your own policy priorities or staying silent on an alternate vision for our country over the next four years. What it means is that, when you’re trying to influence your MoC, you will have the most leverage when you are focused on the current legislative priority. You may not like the idea of being purely defensive; we certainly don’t. As progressives, our natural inclination is to talk about the things we’re for—a clean climate, economic justice, health care for all, racial equality, gender and sexual equality, and peace and human rights. These are the things that move us. But the hard truth of the next four years is that we’re not going to set the agenda; Trump and congressional Republicans will, and we’ll have to respond. The best way to stand up for the progressive values and policies we cherish is to stand together, indivisible—to treat an attack on one as an attack on all. Dunno if you buy their argument, but the idea is that defending progress we've made is better strategy than offering positive alternatives as the minority party. Yeah, I'm going to call a strategy of trying to lose less pretty terrible when they couldn't even hold shit together when they had power. They need a positive agenda or to get out of the way of folks who do. This all depends on how long it takes Trump to change the ACA. If midterms are coming up and we are still in a healthcare fight, Dems could easily run on the platform of saving healthcare without actually offering a huge idea for the future. Nothing is getting through the senate. Especial something inline with what the GOP was selling, defund PP, pre-existing conditions not protected. I can see Democrats stopping something like repealing the ACA, but there's enough ""centrist Democrats" for them to get legislation voted on. Meaning there's enough Dems that won't fight everything and will allow Republicans a vote on some things. The show down will be over the Supreme Court seat and the democrats who are in states Trump carried. If they are up for election in 2018, they might cave. But I doubt it. There is nothing to gain by working with the GOP right now. Stalling out the Supreme Court poisoned the senate so no one wants to flip.
Manchin is practically a Republican vote already, and too many of them are spineless and will succumb to the "give them an up or down vote!" rhetoric. You're going to be disappointed if you have any confidence they are going to stop Trump. If anyone stops him it's going to be Republicans or a progressive wave election in 18.
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We will see. 8 votes is a lot.
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On February 28 2017 12:18 GreenHorizons wrote:
Manchin is practically a Republican vote already, and too many of them are spineless and will succumb to the "give them an up or down vote!" rhetoric. You're going to be disappointed if you have any confidence they are going to stop Trump. If anyone stops him it's going to be Republicans or a progressive wave election in 18.
I think that the "Democrats stopping Trump" and a progressive wave election are not mutually exclusive. As the Democrats learned over the last eight years, voters tend to blame the party in charge of the Presidency for basically everything. This includes events outside the President's control. Unremitting gridlock benefits the minority party by energizing their base and demoralizing their opposition. This perverse incentive for gridlock is one of the reasons why American politics is an increasingly dysfunctional mess.
Whether veteran Democrats would survive the ensuing Tea Party-esque primary challenges is another story altogether, of course. However, that's not a problem for Democrats in centrist states; it's Democrats in liberal areas that are most likely to be threatened (think Eric Cantor).
Given that Congressional Republicans need Trump to pass any aspect of their fiscal and social agendas, serious Republican opposition against the Presidency seems the least likely outcome before 2018. I don't know why people keep bringing it up given that almost every Republican congressman folded against Trump in the past two years.
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This is so incredibly amateur that the reasoning provided is so poor. Saying we shouldn't have an investigation because in the absence of an investigation, nothing has turned up. It's only one or the other - total incompetence or they've got something to hide.
Spicer disputed that there’s any existing evidence that an investigation is appropriate in the first place.
“It's the same stuff over and over again that we've heard for literally six months. And so the question becomes at some point, what do you need to further investigate if there is nothing that has come out?”
Yahoo
Also saying it was entirely appropriate to ask the FBI to comment publicly on an investigation. Either total incompetence or something to hide.
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On February 28 2017 10:13 Blisse wrote:
How would you guys feel if Clinton was named VP by whoever in 2020? Still her running, just not her name basically?
i wouldn't agree with it, but it'd be a lovely fuck you move to a lot of people and i'd like that.
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On February 28 2017 13:44 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2017 10:13 Blisse wrote:
How would you guys feel if Clinton was named VP by whoever in 2020? Still her running, just not her name basically? i wouldn't agree with it, but it'd be a lovely fuck you move to a lot of people and i'd like that.
yeah i wonder how they'd respond to that fuck you
bloomberg-hillary 2020
RIP oneofthem
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EPT
