In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!
NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
On December 05 2013 06:01 farvacola wrote: Plain-faced truisms like "simple decency" should go back to the1950's where they belong to be quite frank. That being said, Bashir probably should have been fired lol. There's a bit of ivory tower media theory at work in how the conservatism of Fox News seems to succeed while the liberal MSNBC seems to flounder, but I'll spare y'all.
Obviously it's a content issue. I tend to think that the problem with the content is that MSNBC (and CNN for that matter) has inferior on-air talent. It's same issue with liberal talk radio.
How do you see content as the same as on-air talent? I see the latter as personality, being able to speak properly and emphasize certain points using your voice. Content is just the facts of the discussion.
"Content" is an industry term that simply refers to whatever is being broadcast. Thus, content includes talent.
I don't think the average american thinks of it in these terms.
The average American has no idea what things like neuropsychology or toxicology are, either. It doesn't matter what the average American thinks. I'm simply using the proper terms.
Your point about simple decency was related to the country itself, wasn't it? I'm not quite sure what your point has been through the last page actually.
I have no doubt given your responses to my posts.
I'm not really arguing anything. I was just amused by Bashir's "resignation." Make whatever you want of my throwaway comment about "simple decency." I don't think that there's any debating that Bashir's comments fall outside of any honest definition of the term. The only thing that I really threw out that is argumentative (in response to farv) was that MSNBC and other liberal TV/radio outlets underperform compared to their conservative counterparts because they have inferior on-air talent -- ie Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, O'Reilly, etc are simply better at what they do than anyone on the liberal networks. Now, I've heard all sorts of complicated social and demographic explanations for why conservative media outperforms liberal media on cable and talk radio, but I'm not ready to buy into those until the obvious talent deficiency is accounted for.
EDIT: Before anyone says it, I do think that Jon Stewart and Colbert are excellent at what they do and belong in the same conversation as the other guys that I mentioned. The difference is that they're on Comedy Central instead of MSNBC/CNN.
Sarah Palin is a buffoon. It would be simple decency to stop giving her publicity. She should go back to her Alaskan home and resume her simple petty life. It's a complete accident anyone ever paid attention to her.
This is a perfect example of why I don't take you seriously and no one else should either.
On December 05 2013 06:21 Roe wrote: only when someone attacks sarah palin we get upset about 'simple decency'? K, whatever.
On December 05 2013 06:25 packrat386 wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:21 Roe wrote: only when someone attacks sarah palin we get upset about 'simple decency'? K, whatever.
Ugh, can we not do the left wing vs right wing media thing here please? That whole debate is a study in confirmation bias.
You're getting WAY ahead of yourself
Bashir himself said the words were "wholly unacceptable" and "brought shame to my colleagues and friends at this network".
I quite enjoyed the segment. Martin Bashir needs more air time.
On December 05 2013 08:27 xDaunt wrote:
On December 05 2013 08:12 Roe wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:58 xDaunt wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:53 Roe wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:32 xDaunt wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:30 Roe wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:26 xDaunt wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:01 farvacola wrote: Plain-faced truisms like "simple decency" should go back to the1950's where they belong to be quite frank. That being said, Bashir probably should have been fired lol. There's a bit of ivory tower media theory at work in how the conservatism of Fox News seems to succeed while the liberal MSNBC seems to flounder, but I'll spare y'all.
Obviously it's a content issue. I tend to think that the problem with the content is that MSNBC (and CNN for that matter) has inferior on-air talent. It's same issue with liberal talk radio.
How do you see content as the same as on-air talent? I see the latter as personality, being able to speak properly and emphasize certain points using your voice. Content is just the facts of the discussion.
"Content" is an industry term that simply refers to whatever is being broadcast. Thus, content includes talent.
I don't think the average american thinks of it in these terms.
The average American has no idea what things like neuropsychology or toxicology are, either. It doesn't matter what the average American thinks. I'm simply using the proper terms.
Your point about simple decency was related to the country itself, wasn't it? I'm not quite sure what your point has been through the last page actually.
I have no doubt given your responses to my posts.
I'm not really arguing anything. I was just amused by Bashir's "resignation." Make whatever you want of my throwaway comment about "simple decency." I don't think that there's any debating that Bashir's comments fall outside of any honest definition of the term. The only thing that I really threw out that is argumentative (in response to farv) was that MSNBC and other liberal TV/radio outlets underperform compared to their conservative counterparts because they have inferior on-air talent -- ie Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, O'Reilly, etc are simply better at what they do than anyone on the liberal networks. Now, I've heard all sorts of complicated social and demographic explanations for why conservative media outperforms liberal media on cable and talk radio, but I'm not ready to buy into those until the obvious talent deficiency is accounted for.
EDIT: Before anyone says it, I do think that Jon Stewart and Colbert are excellent at what they do and belong in the same conversation as the other guys that I mentioned. The difference is that they're on Comedy Central instead of MSNBC/CNN.
Sarah Palin is a buffoon. It would be simple decency to stop giving her publicity. She should go back to her Alaskan home and resume her simple petty life. It's a complete accident anyone ever paid attention to her.
This is a perfect example of why I don't take you seriously and no one else should either.
You implied that Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly are "talent" and you want to criticize his credibility?
On December 05 2013 06:21 Roe wrote: only when someone attacks sarah palin we get upset about 'simple decency'? K, whatever.
On December 05 2013 06:25 packrat386 wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:21 Roe wrote: only when someone attacks sarah palin we get upset about 'simple decency'? K, whatever.
Ugh, can we not do the left wing vs right wing media thing here please? That whole debate is a study in confirmation bias.
You're getting WAY ahead of yourself
Bashir himself said the words were "wholly unacceptable" and "brought shame to my colleagues and friends at this network".
I quite enjoyed the segment. Martin Bashir needs more air time.
On December 05 2013 08:27 xDaunt wrote:
On December 05 2013 08:12 Roe wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:58 xDaunt wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:53 Roe wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:32 xDaunt wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:30 Roe wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:26 xDaunt wrote: [quote] Obviously it's a content issue. I tend to think that the problem with the content is that MSNBC (and CNN for that matter) has inferior on-air talent. It's same issue with liberal talk radio.
How do you see content as the same as on-air talent? I see the latter as personality, being able to speak properly and emphasize certain points using your voice. Content is just the facts of the discussion.
"Content" is an industry term that simply refers to whatever is being broadcast. Thus, content includes talent.
I don't think the average american thinks of it in these terms.
The average American has no idea what things like neuropsychology or toxicology are, either. It doesn't matter what the average American thinks. I'm simply using the proper terms.
Your point about simple decency was related to the country itself, wasn't it? I'm not quite sure what your point has been through the last page actually.
I have no doubt given your responses to my posts.
I'm not really arguing anything. I was just amused by Bashir's "resignation." Make whatever you want of my throwaway comment about "simple decency." I don't think that there's any debating that Bashir's comments fall outside of any honest definition of the term. The only thing that I really threw out that is argumentative (in response to farv) was that MSNBC and other liberal TV/radio outlets underperform compared to their conservative counterparts because they have inferior on-air talent -- ie Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, O'Reilly, etc are simply better at what they do than anyone on the liberal networks. Now, I've heard all sorts of complicated social and demographic explanations for why conservative media outperforms liberal media on cable and talk radio, but I'm not ready to buy into those until the obvious talent deficiency is accounted for.
EDIT: Before anyone says it, I do think that Jon Stewart and Colbert are excellent at what they do and belong in the same conversation as the other guys that I mentioned. The difference is that they're on Comedy Central instead of MSNBC/CNN.
Sarah Palin is a buffoon. It would be simple decency to stop giving her publicity. She should go back to her Alaskan home and resume her simple petty life. It's a complete accident anyone ever paid attention to her.
This is a perfect example of why I don't take you seriously and no one else should either.
You implied that Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly are "talent" and you want to criticize his credibility?
You'd have to be a complete idiot to not acknowledge their talent. No one earns what they do without being supremely talented. People in their industry -- even if they profoundly disagree with the political views -- acknowledge their talent. As just an example, have you ever heard what Rachel Maddow had to say about Glenn Beck?
On December 05 2013 06:21 Roe wrote: only when someone attacks sarah palin we get upset about 'simple decency'? K, whatever.
On December 05 2013 06:25 packrat386 wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:21 Roe wrote: only when someone attacks sarah palin we get upset about 'simple decency'? K, whatever.
Ugh, can we not do the left wing vs right wing media thing here please? That whole debate is a study in confirmation bias.
You're getting WAY ahead of yourself
Bashir himself said the words were "wholly unacceptable" and "brought shame to my colleagues and friends at this network".
I quite enjoyed the segment. Martin Bashir needs more air time.
On December 05 2013 08:27 xDaunt wrote:
On December 05 2013 08:12 Roe wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:58 xDaunt wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:53 Roe wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:32 xDaunt wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:30 Roe wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:26 xDaunt wrote: [quote] Obviously it's a content issue. I tend to think that the problem with the content is that MSNBC (and CNN for that matter) has inferior on-air talent. It's same issue with liberal talk radio.
How do you see content as the same as on-air talent? I see the latter as personality, being able to speak properly and emphasize certain points using your voice. Content is just the facts of the discussion.
"Content" is an industry term that simply refers to whatever is being broadcast. Thus, content includes talent.
I don't think the average american thinks of it in these terms.
The average American has no idea what things like neuropsychology or toxicology are, either. It doesn't matter what the average American thinks. I'm simply using the proper terms.
Your point about simple decency was related to the country itself, wasn't it? I'm not quite sure what your point has been through the last page actually.
I have no doubt given your responses to my posts.
I'm not really arguing anything. I was just amused by Bashir's "resignation." Make whatever you want of my throwaway comment about "simple decency." I don't think that there's any debating that Bashir's comments fall outside of any honest definition of the term. The only thing that I really threw out that is argumentative (in response to farv) was that MSNBC and other liberal TV/radio outlets underperform compared to their conservative counterparts because they have inferior on-air talent -- ie Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, O'Reilly, etc are simply better at what they do than anyone on the liberal networks. Now, I've heard all sorts of complicated social and demographic explanations for why conservative media outperforms liberal media on cable and talk radio, but I'm not ready to buy into those until the obvious talent deficiency is accounted for.
EDIT: Before anyone says it, I do think that Jon Stewart and Colbert are excellent at what they do and belong in the same conversation as the other guys that I mentioned. The difference is that they're on Comedy Central instead of MSNBC/CNN.
Sarah Palin is a buffoon. It would be simple decency to stop giving her publicity. She should go back to her Alaskan home and resume her simple petty life. It's a complete accident anyone ever paid attention to her.
This is a perfect example of why I don't take you seriously and no one else should either.
You implied that Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly are "talent" and you want to criticize his credibility?
To be fair, I agree with him that Limbaugh and O'Reilly have talent.
On December 05 2013 06:21 Roe wrote: only when someone attacks sarah palin we get upset about 'simple decency'? K, whatever.
On December 05 2013 06:25 packrat386 wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:21 Roe wrote: only when someone attacks sarah palin we get upset about 'simple decency'? K, whatever.
Ugh, can we not do the left wing vs right wing media thing here please? That whole debate is a study in confirmation bias.
You're getting WAY ahead of yourself
Bashir himself said the words were "wholly unacceptable" and "brought shame to my colleagues and friends at this network".
I quite enjoyed the segment. Martin Bashir needs more air time.
On December 05 2013 08:27 xDaunt wrote:
On December 05 2013 08:12 Roe wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:58 xDaunt wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:53 Roe wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:32 xDaunt wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:30 Roe wrote: [quote]
How do you see content as the same as on-air talent? I see the latter as personality, being able to speak properly and emphasize certain points using your voice. Content is just the facts of the discussion.
"Content" is an industry term that simply refers to whatever is being broadcast. Thus, content includes talent.
I don't think the average american thinks of it in these terms.
The average American has no idea what things like neuropsychology or toxicology are, either. It doesn't matter what the average American thinks. I'm simply using the proper terms.
Your point about simple decency was related to the country itself, wasn't it? I'm not quite sure what your point has been through the last page actually.
I have no doubt given your responses to my posts.
I'm not really arguing anything. I was just amused by Bashir's "resignation." Make whatever you want of my throwaway comment about "simple decency." I don't think that there's any debating that Bashir's comments fall outside of any honest definition of the term. The only thing that I really threw out that is argumentative (in response to farv) was that MSNBC and other liberal TV/radio outlets underperform compared to their conservative counterparts because they have inferior on-air talent -- ie Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, O'Reilly, etc are simply better at what they do than anyone on the liberal networks. Now, I've heard all sorts of complicated social and demographic explanations for why conservative media outperforms liberal media on cable and talk radio, but I'm not ready to buy into those until the obvious talent deficiency is accounted for.
EDIT: Before anyone says it, I do think that Jon Stewart and Colbert are excellent at what they do and belong in the same conversation as the other guys that I mentioned. The difference is that they're on Comedy Central instead of MSNBC/CNN.
Sarah Palin is a buffoon. It would be simple decency to stop giving her publicity. She should go back to her Alaskan home and resume her simple petty life. It's a complete accident anyone ever paid attention to her.
This is a perfect example of why I don't take you seriously and no one else should either.
You implied that Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly are "talent" and you want to criticize his credibility?
You'd have to be a complete idiot to not acknowledge their talent. No one earns what they do without being supremely talented. People in their industry -- even if they profoundly disagree with the political views -- acknowledge their talent. As just an example, have you ever heard what Rachel Maddow had to say about Glenn Beck?
Ira Glass had just returned from Glenn Beck’s “Restoring Honor” rally in Washington, D.C., where he interviewed Glenn Beck disciples, and brought Maddow a water bottle as a souvenir. She thanked him — one thing you may not know is that Maddow actually considers Beck something of a professional influence. "Glenn Beck was my favorite person of all time in radio. When he was in talk radio God wasn’t speaking to him,” she said. “He was funny and much more performative than anyone. He’s amazing in talk radio. He was a political guy. It was him ranting and raving and you sort of felt he didn’t take it seriously.”
“When I got hired by Air America they asked who I like in radio and I said I like Ira Glass, This American Life, and I really like this guy Glenn Beck,” she said. “And I shit you not, the guy who was sort of leading the interview, he didn’t last long at the company, said, 'We’re going to be a liberal channel.' I’m like, 'Yeah, I’m pretty confident in my politics.'
As an EVE Online player I still remember when Glenn Beck claimed that Something Awful was a CIA front used to sneak a message out during the Benghazi attacks because why else would someone playing a MMORPG tell their MMORPG friends what was going on around them. The guy is completely divorced from reality.
Rush's talent includes repeating the same things over and over until "low information voters", as he likes to say, go bezerk. His job is literally to get the lowest common denominator to fall in line with the party. Some people like to analyze things and make their own decisions and some people like to get told what to think by an old bigoted pill addict.
I hope you all see what real political correctness is. If you offend the right wing of America, you get tossed off the air. A brief and incomplete list (please help me add more):
Bill Maher (failed to call 9/11 hijackers cowards at the wrong time on a show called "politically incorrect") Phil Donahue (opposed Iraq war at the wrong time) Dan Rather (crap story about Bush National Guard records I don't understand) Martin Bashir (insufficiently civil in discussing Sarah Palin)
Contrast this with offending the left wing of America.
Lara Logan runs a full length segment on 60 minutes which is top to bottom lies by a wingnut that happened to be publishing a Tea Party fan fiction book about Benghazi through a corporate subsidiary of CBS. Lara Logan will be returning to the air.
On December 05 2013 11:14 CannonsNCarriers wrote: I hope you all see what real political correctness is. If you offend the right wing of America, you get tossed off the air. A brief and incomplete list (please help me add more):
Bill Maher (failed to call 9/11 hijackers cowards at the wrong time on a show called "politically incorrect") Phil Donahue (opposed Iraq war at the wrong time) Dan Rather (crap story about Bush National Guard records I don't understand) Martin Bashir (insufficiently civil in discussing Sarah Palin)
Contrast this with offending the left wing of America.
Lara Logan runs a full length segment on 60 minutes which is top to bottom lies by a wingnut that happened to be publishing a Tea Party fan fiction book about Benghazi through a corporate subsidiary of CBS. Lara Logan will be returning to the air.
Oh plz. No network should keep someone around that says what Matin Bashir did. Regardless of political affiliation or whatever.
Dont make it about politics when its someone clearly stepping outside the line.
On December 05 2013 11:08 heliusx wrote: Rush's talent includes repeating the same things over and over until "low information voters", as he likes to say, go bezerk. His job is literally to get the lowest common denominator to fall in line with the party. Some people like to analyze things and make their own decisions and some people like to get told what to think by an old bigoted pill addict.
Don't mistake the content for the genius in the technique. He is a masterful communicator.
On December 05 2013 10:01 IgnE wrote: Glenn Beck is a total enigma to me. I have no idea what's actually going on inside his head.
Glenn Beck is a bit of an idiot savant. I think he is very genuine, but he gets some really crazy fucking ideas in his head. He is especially bad about extrapolating all sorts of weird shit from pop songs.
the genius of fox news was to introduce people who were more and more crazy so the formerly crazy now seemed sane by comparison. which helps further polarize the debate which is awesome for a cable network with a strong grasp of the crazy part of one side of the political spectrum.
On December 05 2013 11:32 Liquid`Drone wrote: the genius of fox news was to introduce people who were more and more crazy so the formerly crazy now seemed sane by comparison. which helps further polarize the debate which is awesome for a cable network with a strong grasp of the crazy part of one side of the political spectrum.
Probably the more accurate description is that Fox News catered to the 35% or so of America that the rest of the media ignored at the time.
On December 05 2013 11:32 Liquid`Drone wrote: the genius of fox news was to introduce people who were more and more crazy so the formerly crazy now seemed sane by comparison. which helps further polarize the debate which is awesome for a cable network with a strong grasp of the crazy part of one side of the political spectrum.
Probably the more accurate description is that Fox News catered to the 35% or so of America that the rest of the media ignored at the time.
the audience and the outlet produce each other in a reciprocal and self-reinforcing fashion
On December 05 2013 11:32 Liquid`Drone wrote: the genius of fox news was to introduce people who were more and more crazy so the formerly crazy now seemed sane by comparison. which helps further polarize the debate which is awesome for a cable network with a strong grasp of the crazy part of one side of the political spectrum.
Probably the more accurate description is that Fox News catered to the 35% or so of America that the rest of the media ignored at the time.
This is true. Fox news catered to the 35% that have no interest in news. By abandoning integrity they have removed the need to be informative at all and forced the left into a "how low can we go" contest.
On the issue of Glenn Beck. I have always thought of him as a stream of consciousness "regular guy". To call him conservative implies he has sufficient understanding of anything to form conservative opinions. He, like most people, is just meandering around lashing out at the world.
On December 05 2013 11:14 CannonsNCarriers wrote: I hope you all see what real political correctness is. If you offend the right wing of America, you get tossed off the air. A brief and incomplete list (please help me add more):
Bill Maher (failed to call 9/11 hijackers cowards at the wrong time on a show called "politically incorrect") Phil Donahue (opposed Iraq war at the wrong time) Dan Rather (crap story about Bush National Guard records I don't understand) Martin Bashir (insufficiently civil in discussing Sarah Palin)
Contrast this with offending the left wing of America.
Lara Logan runs a full length segment on 60 minutes which is top to bottom lies by a wingnut that happened to be publishing a Tea Party fan fiction book about Benghazi through a corporate subsidiary of CBS. Lara Logan will be returning to the air.
Oh plz. No network should keep someone around that says what Matin Bashir did. Regardless of political affiliation or whatever.
Dont make it about politics when its someone clearly stepping outside the line.
Stepping outside the line is what news 'should' be all about. You don't have a fifth estate (or w/e that is) when the news media is essentially just a conservative wing spewing propaganda for the establishment.
On December 05 2013 11:32 Liquid`Drone wrote: the genius of fox news was to introduce people who were more and more crazy so the formerly crazy now seemed sane by comparison. which helps further polarize the debate which is awesome for a cable network with a strong grasp of the crazy part of one side of the political spectrum.
Probably the more accurate description is that Fox News catered to the 35% or so of America that the rest of the media ignored at the time.
Actually yours is a less accurate and overgeneralized statement.
“Our free stuff today is being paid for by taking money from our children, and borrowing from China. When that note comes due — and this isn’t racist, so try it. Try it anyway. This isn’t racist. But it’s going to be like slavery when that note is due.”
EPT
