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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 683

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18832 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-04 21:01:30
December 04 2013 21:01 GMT
#13641
Plain-faced truisms like "simple decency" should go back to the1950's where they belong to be quite frank. That being said, Bashir probably should have been fired lol. There's a bit of ivory tower media theory at work in how the conservatism of Fox News seems to succeed while the liberal MSNBC seems to flounder, but I'll spare y'all.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
packrat386
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States5077 Posts
December 04 2013 21:13 GMT
#13642
On December 05 2013 06:01 farvacola wrote:
Plain-faced truisms like "simple decency" should go back to the1950's where they belong to be quite frank. That being said, Bashir probably should have been fired lol. There's a bit of ivory tower media theory at work in how the conservatism of Fox News seems to succeed while the liberal MSNBC seems to flounder, but I'll spare y'all.

Happy birthday.
dreaming of a sunny day
Roe
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada6002 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-04 21:28:19
December 04 2013 21:21 GMT
#13643
only when someone attacks sarah palin we get upset about 'simple decency'? K, whatever.

On December 05 2013 06:25 packrat386 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2013 06:21 Roe wrote:
only when someone attacks sarah palin we get upset about 'simple decency'? K, whatever.

Ugh, can we not do the left wing vs right wing media thing here please? That whole debate is a study in confirmation bias.


You're getting WAY ahead of yourself
packrat386
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States5077 Posts
December 04 2013 21:25 GMT
#13644
On December 05 2013 06:21 Roe wrote:
only when someone attacks sarah palin we get upset about 'simple decency'? K, whatever.

Ugh, can we not do the left wing vs right wing media thing here please? That whole debate is a study in confirmation bias.
dreaming of a sunny day
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
December 04 2013 21:26 GMT
#13645
On December 05 2013 06:01 farvacola wrote:
Plain-faced truisms like "simple decency" should go back to the1950's where they belong to be quite frank. That being said, Bashir probably should have been fired lol. There's a bit of ivory tower media theory at work in how the conservatism of Fox News seems to succeed while the liberal MSNBC seems to flounder, but I'll spare y'all.

Obviously it's a content issue. I tend to think that the problem with the content is that MSNBC (and CNN for that matter) has inferior on-air talent. It's same issue with liberal talk radio.
Roe
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada6002 Posts
December 04 2013 21:30 GMT
#13646
On December 05 2013 06:26 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2013 06:01 farvacola wrote:
Plain-faced truisms like "simple decency" should go back to the1950's where they belong to be quite frank. That being said, Bashir probably should have been fired lol. There's a bit of ivory tower media theory at work in how the conservatism of Fox News seems to succeed while the liberal MSNBC seems to flounder, but I'll spare y'all.

Obviously it's a content issue. I tend to think that the problem with the content is that MSNBC (and CNN for that matter) has inferior on-air talent. It's same issue with liberal talk radio.


How do you see content as the same as on-air talent? I see the latter as personality, being able to speak properly and emphasize certain points using your voice. Content is just the facts of the discussion.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-04 21:33:16
December 04 2013 21:32 GMT
#13647
On December 05 2013 06:30 Roe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2013 06:26 xDaunt wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:01 farvacola wrote:
Plain-faced truisms like "simple decency" should go back to the1950's where they belong to be quite frank. That being said, Bashir probably should have been fired lol. There's a bit of ivory tower media theory at work in how the conservatism of Fox News seems to succeed while the liberal MSNBC seems to flounder, but I'll spare y'all.

Obviously it's a content issue. I tend to think that the problem with the content is that MSNBC (and CNN for that matter) has inferior on-air talent. It's same issue with liberal talk radio.


How do you see content as the same as on-air talent? I see the latter as personality, being able to speak properly and emphasize certain points using your voice. Content is just the facts of the discussion.

"Content" is an industry term that simply refers to whatever is being broadcast. Thus, content includes talent.
Sub40APM
Profile Joined August 2010
6336 Posts
December 04 2013 21:45 GMT
#13648
On December 05 2013 06:26 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2013 06:01 farvacola wrote:
Plain-faced truisms like "simple decency" should go back to the1950's where they belong to be quite frank. That being said, Bashir probably should have been fired lol. There's a bit of ivory tower media theory at work in how the conservatism of Fox News seems to succeed while the liberal MSNBC seems to flounder, but I'll spare y'all.

Obviously it's a content issue. I tend to think that the problem with the content is that MSNBC (and CNN for that matter) has inferior on-air talent. It's same issue with liberal talk radio.

lol.

User was warned for this post
Roe
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada6002 Posts
December 04 2013 21:53 GMT
#13649
On December 05 2013 06:32 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2013 06:30 Roe wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:26 xDaunt wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:01 farvacola wrote:
Plain-faced truisms like "simple decency" should go back to the1950's where they belong to be quite frank. That being said, Bashir probably should have been fired lol. There's a bit of ivory tower media theory at work in how the conservatism of Fox News seems to succeed while the liberal MSNBC seems to flounder, but I'll spare y'all.

Obviously it's a content issue. I tend to think that the problem with the content is that MSNBC (and CNN for that matter) has inferior on-air talent. It's same issue with liberal talk radio.


How do you see content as the same as on-air talent? I see the latter as personality, being able to speak properly and emphasize certain points using your voice. Content is just the facts of the discussion.

"Content" is an industry term that simply refers to whatever is being broadcast. Thus, content includes talent.


I don't think the average american thinks of it in these terms.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
December 04 2013 21:58 GMT
#13650
On December 05 2013 06:53 Roe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2013 06:32 xDaunt wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:30 Roe wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:26 xDaunt wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:01 farvacola wrote:
Plain-faced truisms like "simple decency" should go back to the1950's where they belong to be quite frank. That being said, Bashir probably should have been fired lol. There's a bit of ivory tower media theory at work in how the conservatism of Fox News seems to succeed while the liberal MSNBC seems to flounder, but I'll spare y'all.

Obviously it's a content issue. I tend to think that the problem with the content is that MSNBC (and CNN for that matter) has inferior on-air talent. It's same issue with liberal talk radio.


How do you see content as the same as on-air talent? I see the latter as personality, being able to speak properly and emphasize certain points using your voice. Content is just the facts of the discussion.

"Content" is an industry term that simply refers to whatever is being broadcast. Thus, content includes talent.


I don't think the average american thinks of it in these terms.

The average American has no idea what things like neuropsychology or toxicology are, either. It doesn't matter what the average American thinks. I'm simply using the proper terms.
Paljas
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany6926 Posts
December 04 2013 22:02 GMT
#13651
On December 05 2013 06:58 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2013 06:53 Roe wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:32 xDaunt wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:30 Roe wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:26 xDaunt wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:01 farvacola wrote:
Plain-faced truisms like "simple decency" should go back to the1950's where they belong to be quite frank. That being said, Bashir probably should have been fired lol. There's a bit of ivory tower media theory at work in how the conservatism of Fox News seems to succeed while the liberal MSNBC seems to flounder, but I'll spare y'all.

Obviously it's a content issue. I tend to think that the problem with the content is that MSNBC (and CNN for that matter) has inferior on-air talent. It's same issue with liberal talk radio.


How do you see content as the same as on-air talent? I see the latter as personality, being able to speak properly and emphasize certain points using your voice. Content is just the facts of the discussion.

"Content" is an industry term that simply refers to whatever is being broadcast. Thus, content includes talent.


I don't think the average american thinks of it in these terms.

The average American has no idea what things like neuropsychology or toxicology are, either. It doesn't matter what the average American thinks. I'm simply using the proper terms.

thanks for enlightening us mere mortals.
TL+ Member
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
December 04 2013 22:13 GMT
#13652
On December 05 2013 07:02 Paljas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2013 06:58 xDaunt wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:53 Roe wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:32 xDaunt wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:30 Roe wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:26 xDaunt wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:01 farvacola wrote:
Plain-faced truisms like "simple decency" should go back to the1950's where they belong to be quite frank. That being said, Bashir probably should have been fired lol. There's a bit of ivory tower media theory at work in how the conservatism of Fox News seems to succeed while the liberal MSNBC seems to flounder, but I'll spare y'all.

Obviously it's a content issue. I tend to think that the problem with the content is that MSNBC (and CNN for that matter) has inferior on-air talent. It's same issue with liberal talk radio.


How do you see content as the same as on-air talent? I see the latter as personality, being able to speak properly and emphasize certain points using your voice. Content is just the facts of the discussion.

"Content" is an industry term that simply refers to whatever is being broadcast. Thus, content includes talent.


I don't think the average american thinks of it in these terms.

The average American has no idea what things like neuropsychology or toxicology are, either. It doesn't matter what the average American thinks. I'm simply using the proper terms.

thanks for enlightening us mere mortals.

Given comments like this, it seems like there's a lot more enlightening to be done.
HunterX11
Profile Joined March 2009
United States1048 Posts
December 04 2013 22:29 GMT
#13653
On December 05 2013 04:11 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
Washington (CNN) -- Democratic Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, one of Obamacare's architects and staunchest supporters, is also the only top congressional leader to exempt some of his staff from having to buy insurance through the law's new exchanges.

Reid is the exception among the other top congressional leaders. GOP House Speaker John Boehner, House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi and Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell have all directed their staffs to join the exchange, their aides said.

After website woes, President pushes benefits of Obamacare

In the charged atmosphere surrounding Obamacare, Reid's decision only gives Republicans more ammo to attack Democrats already suffering politically from the law's botched rollout.

In September, Reid told reporters, "Let's stop these really juvenile political games -- the one dealing with health care for senators and House members and our staff. We are going to be part of exchanges, that's what the law says and we'll be part of that."
source
Oops.


Harry Reid is an asshole but it isn't an "oops" to let his staff keep their employer-provided medical care instead of deliberately fucking them over just to make a political point: it's a good thing. "If Obamacare is so great, then why would anyone rather have their healthcare paid for instead of paying for it themselves on the exchanges" is such a stupid question I can't believe anyone would think it's a serious argument for or against anything.
Try using both Irradiate and Defensive Matrix on an Overlord. It looks pretty neat.
DeltaX
Profile Joined August 2011
United States287 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-04 22:49:36
December 04 2013 22:47 GMT
#13654
On December 05 2013 07:29 HunterX11 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2013 04:11 Danglars wrote:
Washington (CNN) -- Democratic Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, one of Obamacare's architects and staunchest supporters, is also the only top congressional leader to exempt some of his staff from having to buy insurance through the law's new exchanges.

Reid is the exception among the other top congressional leaders. GOP House Speaker John Boehner, House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi and Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell have all directed their staffs to join the exchange, their aides said.

After website woes, President pushes benefits of Obamacare

In the charged atmosphere surrounding Obamacare, Reid's decision only gives Republicans more ammo to attack Democrats already suffering politically from the law's botched rollout.

In September, Reid told reporters, "Let's stop these really juvenile political games -- the one dealing with health care for senators and House members and our staff. We are going to be part of exchanges, that's what the law says and we'll be part of that."
source
Oops.


Harry Reid is an asshole but it isn't an "oops" to let his staff keep their employer-provided medical care instead of deliberately fucking them over just to make a political point: it's a good thing. "If Obamacare is so great, then why would anyone rather have their healthcare paid for instead of paying for it themselves on the exchanges" is such a stupid question I can't believe anyone would think it's a serious argument for or against anything.


Honestly, he prolly just asked his staff to see what they wanted and went with that.

You can also take the flip side of this and point out that all the republican leaders opted their staffs into the exchanges despite their opposition to the law.

Also the staff get reimbursed for what they buy on the exchanges, they don't have to pay it out of pocket.
coverpunch
Profile Joined December 2011
United States2093 Posts
December 04 2013 23:08 GMT
#13655
On December 05 2013 06:21 Roe wrote:
only when someone attacks sarah palin we get upset about 'simple decency'? K, whatever.

Show nested quote +
On December 05 2013 06:25 packrat386 wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:21 Roe wrote:
only when someone attacks sarah palin we get upset about 'simple decency'? K, whatever.

Ugh, can we not do the left wing vs right wing media thing here please? That whole debate is a study in confirmation bias.


You're getting WAY ahead of yourself

Bashir himself said the words were "wholly unacceptable" and "brought shame to my colleagues and friends at this network".
Roe
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada6002 Posts
December 04 2013 23:12 GMT
#13656
On December 05 2013 06:58 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2013 06:53 Roe wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:32 xDaunt wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:30 Roe wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:26 xDaunt wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:01 farvacola wrote:
Plain-faced truisms like "simple decency" should go back to the1950's where they belong to be quite frank. That being said, Bashir probably should have been fired lol. There's a bit of ivory tower media theory at work in how the conservatism of Fox News seems to succeed while the liberal MSNBC seems to flounder, but I'll spare y'all.

Obviously it's a content issue. I tend to think that the problem with the content is that MSNBC (and CNN for that matter) has inferior on-air talent. It's same issue with liberal talk radio.


How do you see content as the same as on-air talent? I see the latter as personality, being able to speak properly and emphasize certain points using your voice. Content is just the facts of the discussion.

"Content" is an industry term that simply refers to whatever is being broadcast. Thus, content includes talent.


I don't think the average american thinks of it in these terms.

The average American has no idea what things like neuropsychology or toxicology are, either. It doesn't matter what the average American thinks. I'm simply using the proper terms.


Your point about simple decency was related to the country itself, wasn't it? I'm not quite sure what your point has been through the last page actually.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-04 23:41:49
December 04 2013 23:27 GMT
#13657
On December 05 2013 08:12 Roe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2013 06:58 xDaunt wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:53 Roe wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:32 xDaunt wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:30 Roe wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:26 xDaunt wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:01 farvacola wrote:
Plain-faced truisms like "simple decency" should go back to the1950's where they belong to be quite frank. That being said, Bashir probably should have been fired lol. There's a bit of ivory tower media theory at work in how the conservatism of Fox News seems to succeed while the liberal MSNBC seems to flounder, but I'll spare y'all.

Obviously it's a content issue. I tend to think that the problem with the content is that MSNBC (and CNN for that matter) has inferior on-air talent. It's same issue with liberal talk radio.


How do you see content as the same as on-air talent? I see the latter as personality, being able to speak properly and emphasize certain points using your voice. Content is just the facts of the discussion.

"Content" is an industry term that simply refers to whatever is being broadcast. Thus, content includes talent.


I don't think the average american thinks of it in these terms.

The average American has no idea what things like neuropsychology or toxicology are, either. It doesn't matter what the average American thinks. I'm simply using the proper terms.


Your point about simple decency was related to the country itself, wasn't it? I'm not quite sure what your point has been through the last page actually.

I have no doubt given your responses to my posts.

I'm not really arguing anything. I was just amused by Bashir's "resignation." Make whatever you want of my throwaway comment about "simple decency." I don't think that there's any debating that Bashir's comments fall outside of any honest definition of the term. The only thing that I really threw out that is argumentative (in response to farv) was that MSNBC and other liberal TV/radio outlets underperform compared to their conservative counterparts because they have inferior on-air talent -- ie Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, O'Reilly, etc are simply better at what they do than anyone on the liberal networks. Now, I've heard all sorts of complicated social and demographic explanations for why conservative media outperforms liberal media on cable and talk radio, but I'm not ready to buy into those until the obvious talent deficiency is accounted for.

EDIT: Before anyone says it, I do think that Jon Stewart and Colbert are excellent at what they do and belong in the same conversation as the other guys that I mentioned. The difference is that they're on Comedy Central instead of MSNBC/CNN.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
December 05 2013 00:03 GMT
#13658
I concur that Fox news has much better on-air talent; and is generally more entertaining.

CNN used to be a place for really high quality news reporting, but that was a decade or two ago; their standards have slipped considerably.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
HunterX11
Profile Joined March 2009
United States1048 Posts
December 05 2013 00:23 GMT
#13659
On December 05 2013 07:47 DeltaX wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2013 07:29 HunterX11 wrote:
On December 05 2013 04:11 Danglars wrote:
Washington (CNN) -- Democratic Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, one of Obamacare's architects and staunchest supporters, is also the only top congressional leader to exempt some of his staff from having to buy insurance through the law's new exchanges.

Reid is the exception among the other top congressional leaders. GOP House Speaker John Boehner, House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi and Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell have all directed their staffs to join the exchange, their aides said.

After website woes, President pushes benefits of Obamacare

In the charged atmosphere surrounding Obamacare, Reid's decision only gives Republicans more ammo to attack Democrats already suffering politically from the law's botched rollout.

In September, Reid told reporters, "Let's stop these really juvenile political games -- the one dealing with health care for senators and House members and our staff. We are going to be part of exchanges, that's what the law says and we'll be part of that."
source
Oops.


Harry Reid is an asshole but it isn't an "oops" to let his staff keep their employer-provided medical care instead of deliberately fucking them over just to make a political point: it's a good thing. "If Obamacare is so great, then why would anyone rather have their healthcare paid for instead of paying for it themselves on the exchanges" is such a stupid question I can't believe anyone would think it's a serious argument for or against anything.


Honestly, he prolly just asked his staff to see what they wanted and went with that.

You can also take the flip side of this and point out that all the republican leaders opted their staffs into the exchanges despite their opposition to the law.

Also the staff get reimbursed for what they buy on the exchanges, they don't have to pay it out of pocket.


My bad; I didn't realize they were getting reimbursed (though it's still ridiculous to make people who work for you part of a political game, and really goes to show just how much empathy our members of Congress have).
Try using both Irradiate and Defensive Matrix on an Overlord. It looks pretty neat.
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-05 00:41:51
December 05 2013 00:38 GMT
#13660
On December 05 2013 08:08 coverpunch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2013 06:21 Roe wrote:
only when someone attacks sarah palin we get upset about 'simple decency'? K, whatever.

On December 05 2013 06:25 packrat386 wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:21 Roe wrote:
only when someone attacks sarah palin we get upset about 'simple decency'? K, whatever.

Ugh, can we not do the left wing vs right wing media thing here please? That whole debate is a study in confirmation bias.


You're getting WAY ahead of yourself

Bashir himself said the words were "wholly unacceptable" and "brought shame to my colleagues and friends at this network".


I quite enjoyed the segment. Martin Bashir needs more air time.

On December 05 2013 08:27 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2013 08:12 Roe wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:58 xDaunt wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:53 Roe wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:32 xDaunt wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:30 Roe wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:26 xDaunt wrote:
On December 05 2013 06:01 farvacola wrote:
Plain-faced truisms like "simple decency" should go back to the1950's where they belong to be quite frank. That being said, Bashir probably should have been fired lol. There's a bit of ivory tower media theory at work in how the conservatism of Fox News seems to succeed while the liberal MSNBC seems to flounder, but I'll spare y'all.

Obviously it's a content issue. I tend to think that the problem with the content is that MSNBC (and CNN for that matter) has inferior on-air talent. It's same issue with liberal talk radio.


How do you see content as the same as on-air talent? I see the latter as personality, being able to speak properly and emphasize certain points using your voice. Content is just the facts of the discussion.

"Content" is an industry term that simply refers to whatever is being broadcast. Thus, content includes talent.


I don't think the average american thinks of it in these terms.

The average American has no idea what things like neuropsychology or toxicology are, either. It doesn't matter what the average American thinks. I'm simply using the proper terms.


Your point about simple decency was related to the country itself, wasn't it? I'm not quite sure what your point has been through the last page actually.

I have no doubt given your responses to my posts.

I'm not really arguing anything. I was just amused by Bashir's "resignation." Make whatever you want of my throwaway comment about "simple decency." I don't think that there's any debating that Bashir's comments fall outside of any honest definition of the term. The only thing that I really threw out that is argumentative (in response to farv) was that MSNBC and other liberal TV/radio outlets underperform compared to their conservative counterparts because they have inferior on-air talent -- ie Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, O'Reilly, etc are simply better at what they do than anyone on the liberal networks. Now, I've heard all sorts of complicated social and demographic explanations for why conservative media outperforms liberal media on cable and talk radio, but I'm not ready to buy into those until the obvious talent deficiency is accounted for.

EDIT: Before anyone says it, I do think that Jon Stewart and Colbert are excellent at what they do and belong in the same conversation as the other guys that I mentioned. The difference is that they're on Comedy Central instead of MSNBC/CNN.


Sarah Palin is a buffoon. It would be simple decency to stop giving her publicity. She should go back to her Alaskan home and resume her simple petty life. It's a complete accident anyone ever paid attention to her.
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
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