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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 6458

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
December 21 2016 16:17 GMT
#129141
On December 22 2016 01:11 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 21 2016 23:59 Gorsameth wrote:
On December 21 2016 22:47 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
The Democratic National Committee tried to provide CNN anchor Wolf Blizter with questions to ask Donald Trump, the latest WikiLeaks email dump has revealed.

Among the batch of 8,263 emails released on Sunday night, one shows that staff working for the network hosts asked DNC staffers what questions they should put to the Republican candidate.

They also asked for advice when it came to an appearance from former candidate, Ted Cruz.

An email dated April 28 entitled 'Cruz on CNN' reads 'CNN is looking for questions. Please send some topical/interesting ones.'

That email was sent from DNC research director Lauren Dillon to other officials and staffers.

Days before that, on April 25 she asked for questions from officials and staffers for an interview that CNN's Wolf Blitzer would be conducting with Trump.

'Wolf Blitzer is interviewing Trump on Tues (sic) ahead of his foreign policy address on Wed,' Dillon wrote in the email that was entitled 'CNN questions for Trump.'

Numerous questions were submitted by a group of DNC staffers and officials for 68-year-old Blitzer to ask the billionaire.

However, in a follow-up email, she informed the group of staffers that the Trump interview ended up being cancelled.

'CNN said the interview was cancelled as of now but will keep the questions for the next one Good to have for others as well,' Dillon wrote in the email.

DNC deputy communications director Christina Freundlich responded to Dillion's email with 'Boo', seemingly showing that she was disappointed.

Blitzer, who has been working at CNN since 1990, did end up interviewing the real estate mogul on May 4.

That interview took place right after both Cruz and Ohio Gov. John Kasich dropped out of the Republican presidential race as candidates.

A CNN spokeswoman told the Daily Mail Online the emails are 'completely unremarkable'.


Source

And if you check Trumps email they probably asked his camp for questions they would want to ask Hillary.

But I'm sure people are much more interested in spinning this as a conspiracy.

The reverse would be improbable and highly surprising if it existed. CNN doesn't take much spinning to see the conspiracy. They've made their bed, now they can lie in it.

But do continue to defend the actions on behalf of the Hillary campaign for another two years, we need some more senate seat pickups. Next up is alleging the draft articles a couple outlets ran by podesta's crew before publication were probably also passed to lewandowski. I tend to think your affinity for their politics clouds your perspective of how a media covering public presidential campaigns should act privately in concert with presidential campaigns.

I'm not clear what you mean by "some more senate seat pickups"
since the republicans didn't pickup any this election iirc; and therefore the word 'more' doesn't make sense, since there's no starting number to add them to.

farv -> ok, that's clear then.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-12-21 16:40:59
December 21 2016 16:40 GMT
#129142
On December 22 2016 01:11 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 21 2016 23:59 Gorsameth wrote:
On December 21 2016 22:47 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
The Democratic National Committee tried to provide CNN anchor Wolf Blizter with questions to ask Donald Trump, the latest WikiLeaks email dump has revealed.

Among the batch of 8,263 emails released on Sunday night, one shows that staff working for the network hosts asked DNC staffers what questions they should put to the Republican candidate.

They also asked for advice when it came to an appearance from former candidate, Ted Cruz.

An email dated April 28 entitled 'Cruz on CNN' reads 'CNN is looking for questions. Please send some topical/interesting ones.'

That email was sent from DNC research director Lauren Dillon to other officials and staffers.

Days before that, on April 25 she asked for questions from officials and staffers for an interview that CNN's Wolf Blitzer would be conducting with Trump.

'Wolf Blitzer is interviewing Trump on Tues (sic) ahead of his foreign policy address on Wed,' Dillon wrote in the email that was entitled 'CNN questions for Trump.'

Numerous questions were submitted by a group of DNC staffers and officials for 68-year-old Blitzer to ask the billionaire.

However, in a follow-up email, she informed the group of staffers that the Trump interview ended up being cancelled.

'CNN said the interview was cancelled as of now but will keep the questions for the next one Good to have for others as well,' Dillon wrote in the email.

DNC deputy communications director Christina Freundlich responded to Dillion's email with 'Boo', seemingly showing that she was disappointed.

Blitzer, who has been working at CNN since 1990, did end up interviewing the real estate mogul on May 4.

That interview took place right after both Cruz and Ohio Gov. John Kasich dropped out of the Republican presidential race as candidates.

A CNN spokeswoman told the Daily Mail Online the emails are 'completely unremarkable'.


Source

And if you check Trumps email they probably asked his camp for questions they would want to ask Hillary.

But I'm sure people are much more interested in spinning this as a conspiracy.

The reverse would be improbable and highly surprising if it existed. CNN doesn't take much spinning to see the conspiracy. They've made their bed, now they can lie in it.

But do continue to defend the actions on behalf of the Hillary campaign for another two years, we need some more senate seat pickups. Next up is alleging the draft articles a couple outlets ran by podesta's crew before publication were probably also passed to lewandowski. I tend to think your affinity for their politics clouds your perspective of how a media covering public presidential campaigns should act privately in concert with presidential campaigns.


I trust you're equally disappointed that Breitbart was described by its leader (now White House chief strategist LOL) as all in on Trump.

I wonder if it's significant that the chairman of Fox News, after resigning, advised Trump for a presidential debate?

Or that Megyn Kelly alleges Trump was tipped off that her first question would be pointed and challenging?

I trust your lack of a peep on these issues is not evidence of bias on your part.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
December 21 2016 16:45 GMT
#129143
On December 22 2016 01:40 Doodsmack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 22 2016 01:11 Danglars wrote:
On December 21 2016 23:59 Gorsameth wrote:
On December 21 2016 22:47 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
The Democratic National Committee tried to provide CNN anchor Wolf Blizter with questions to ask Donald Trump, the latest WikiLeaks email dump has revealed.

Among the batch of 8,263 emails released on Sunday night, one shows that staff working for the network hosts asked DNC staffers what questions they should put to the Republican candidate.

They also asked for advice when it came to an appearance from former candidate, Ted Cruz.

An email dated April 28 entitled 'Cruz on CNN' reads 'CNN is looking for questions. Please send some topical/interesting ones.'

That email was sent from DNC research director Lauren Dillon to other officials and staffers.

Days before that, on April 25 she asked for questions from officials and staffers for an interview that CNN's Wolf Blitzer would be conducting with Trump.

'Wolf Blitzer is interviewing Trump on Tues (sic) ahead of his foreign policy address on Wed,' Dillon wrote in the email that was entitled 'CNN questions for Trump.'

Numerous questions were submitted by a group of DNC staffers and officials for 68-year-old Blitzer to ask the billionaire.

However, in a follow-up email, she informed the group of staffers that the Trump interview ended up being cancelled.

'CNN said the interview was cancelled as of now but will keep the questions for the next one Good to have for others as well,' Dillon wrote in the email.

DNC deputy communications director Christina Freundlich responded to Dillion's email with 'Boo', seemingly showing that she was disappointed.

Blitzer, who has been working at CNN since 1990, did end up interviewing the real estate mogul on May 4.

That interview took place right after both Cruz and Ohio Gov. John Kasich dropped out of the Republican presidential race as candidates.

A CNN spokeswoman told the Daily Mail Online the emails are 'completely unremarkable'.


Source

And if you check Trumps email they probably asked his camp for questions they would want to ask Hillary.

But I'm sure people are much more interested in spinning this as a conspiracy.

The reverse would be improbable and highly surprising if it existed. CNN doesn't take much spinning to see the conspiracy. They've made their bed, now they can lie in it.

But do continue to defend the actions on behalf of the Hillary campaign for another two years, we need some more senate seat pickups. Next up is alleging the draft articles a couple outlets ran by podesta's crew before publication were probably also passed to lewandowski. I tend to think your affinity for their politics clouds your perspective of how a media covering public presidential campaigns should act privately in concert with presidential campaigns.


I trust you're equally disappointed that Breitbart was described by its leader (now White House chief strategist LOL) as all in on Trump.

I wonder if it's significant that the chairman of Fox News, after resigning, advised Trump for a presidential debate?

Or that Megyn Kelly alleges Trump was tipped off that her first question would be pointed and challenging?

I trust your lack of a peep on these issues is not evidence of bias on your part.

If you look at Breitbart and Fox News and like what you see, just wish everything was made more like them, I see no reason why you or anyone else should be disappointed.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-12-21 16:53:52
December 21 2016 16:46 GMT
#129144
On December 22 2016 00:57 Doodsmack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 21 2016 14:03 LegalLord wrote:
The relative strength of the US in the world is definitely decreasing relative to the 90s-00s. I don't see it as a winning strategy to look for every possible powerful nation and make rivals out of them. The problem with a "tough" FP is that people fight back and you just might sustain real, lasting injuries that way.

It's clear that China does perceive the US as a nation that is likely to oppose it in the future and is aware of the need for an alliance in opposition to the US though.


China can fight back and cause some real, lasting injuries too.

I don't disagree. I'm not encouraging a full-out war of trade or military with China, because I think it would ultimately simply accelerate the relative decline of the US in the near future. I do see Europe as a more important alliance grouping than the Pacific nations though, and China really isn't in the position to fuck with those as much as other potential geopolitical foes. So between a ME/Russia focus (countries which are close enough to directly impact Europe and its so-called "unity") and a China/Pacific focus, it would probably be better to start shit in the Pacific if starting shit is a necessity. China has economy, but not so much technology or military, which makes it an easier foe in that regard.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
December 21 2016 17:02 GMT
#129145
On December 22 2016 01:12 farvacola wrote:
All I'm saying is that Democrats should look at new ways to attract voters, and, specifically, challenging the population's traditional understanding of socialistic programs and the role of government in popular life is a good place to start.


Hillary won the most votes and was only down in key states by about 100k. So by "need to cater to more voters" do you mean that the DNC should become more conservative?

Just curious what you mean by "attract voters"
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
December 21 2016 17:10 GMT
#129146
End the pro-corporate and trade deals. Engage worker rights, protections.

Former Speaker Newt Gingrich (R-Ga.) said in a new interview that Donald Trump has taken a different tone as president-elect and may be leaving behind his campaign promise to “drain the swamp.”

Gingrich told NPR's "Morning Edition" that he was told Trump “now says [the phrase] was cute, but he doesn’t want to use it anymore.”

Gingrich, who has been a close adviser to Trump, said he likes "drain the swamp" because it “vividly illustrates the problem, because all people in this city who are the alligators are going to hate the swamp being drained.”

“But, you know, he is my leader, and if he decides to drop the swamp and the alligator I will drop the swamp and the alligator,” he said.

Gingrich also said he’d noticed Trump’s change in attitude toward his supporters chanting “lock her up” at his post-election rallies, referring to Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton.
“Maybe he feels that, as president, as the next president of the United States, that he should be marginally more dignified than talking about alligators in swamps,” Gingrich said.

During “thank you” tour rallies, Trump acknowledged that his supporters have been more laid back following his election win.

"You people were vicious, violent, screaming, 'Where's the wall? We want the wall!' Screaming, 'Prison! Prison! Lock her up!' I mean, you are going crazy. I mean, you were nasty and mean and vicious and you wanted to win, right?" Trump said during a stop in Florida last Saturday.

"But now, you're mellow and you're cool and you're not nearly as vicious or violent, right? Because we won, right?"


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-12-21 17:18:50
December 21 2016 17:17 GMT
#129147
On December 22 2016 02:10 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
End the pro-corporate and trade deals. Engage worker rights, protections.

Show nested quote +
Former Speaker Newt Gingrich (R-Ga.) said in a new interview that Donald Trump has taken a different tone as president-elect and may be leaving behind his campaign promise to “drain the swamp.”

Gingrich told NPR's "Morning Edition" that he was told Trump “now says [the phrase] was cute, but he doesn’t want to use it anymore.”

Gingrich, who has been a close adviser to Trump, said he likes "drain the swamp" because it “vividly illustrates the problem, because all people in this city who are the alligators are going to hate the swamp being drained.”

“But, you know, he is my leader, and if he decides to drop the swamp and the alligator I will drop the swamp and the alligator,” he said.

Gingrich also said he’d noticed Trump’s change in attitude toward his supporters chanting “lock her up” at his post-election rallies, referring to Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton.
“Maybe he feels that, as president, as the next president of the United States, that he should be marginally more dignified than talking about alligators in swamps,” Gingrich said.

During “thank you” tour rallies, Trump acknowledged that his supporters have been more laid back following his election win.

"You people were vicious, violent, screaming, 'Where's the wall? We want the wall!' Screaming, 'Prison! Prison! Lock her up!' I mean, you are going crazy. I mean, you were nasty and mean and vicious and you wanted to win, right?" Trump said during a stop in Florida last Saturday.

"But now, you're mellow and you're cool and you're not nearly as vicious or violent, right? Because we won, right?"


Source


things we pretty much knew but are confirmed here

1. newt is a shitbag

2. trump was never going to help the working man

3. but emails
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
December 21 2016 17:27 GMT
#129148
Not sure what random Gingrich commentary has to do with trade and worker protections.

He'd better not back out of dropping TPP and TTIP though. Thankfully I have seen no indication that he intends to.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States6677 Posts
December 21 2016 17:42 GMT
#129149
http://www.prri.org/press-release/merry-christmas-vs-happy-holidays-republicans-democrats-polar-opposites/


“The survey also found evidence of significant fallout from the election among personal relationships,” says PRRI CEO Robert P. Jones. “Beleaguered Democrats were significantly more likely than Republicans to report that they unfriended someone on social media or planned to avoid certain relatives during the holidays because of politics.”

More than one in ten (13 percent) Americans say they blocked, unfriended, or stopped following someone on social media because of what they posted about politics. Democrats are more than twice as likely as Republicans to report unfriending someone over politics (24 percent vs. 9 percent), and that number rises even more among women. Three in ten (30 percent) Democratic women say they removed someone from a social network because of a political view.

Despite the contentious nature of the 2016 presidential election, only 16 percent of Americans report that their family argued about politics or the election over the Thanksgiving holiday. And while only five percent of Americans say they are planning on spending less time with certain family members because of their political views, Democrats (10 percent) are more likely than Republicans (2 percent) to say they are avoiding certain family members this holiday season because of their political views.
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
December 21 2016 17:46 GMT
#129150
On December 22 2016 01:45 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 22 2016 01:40 Doodsmack wrote:
On December 22 2016 01:11 Danglars wrote:
On December 21 2016 23:59 Gorsameth wrote:
On December 21 2016 22:47 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
The Democratic National Committee tried to provide CNN anchor Wolf Blizter with questions to ask Donald Trump, the latest WikiLeaks email dump has revealed.

Among the batch of 8,263 emails released on Sunday night, one shows that staff working for the network hosts asked DNC staffers what questions they should put to the Republican candidate.

They also asked for advice when it came to an appearance from former candidate, Ted Cruz.

An email dated April 28 entitled 'Cruz on CNN' reads 'CNN is looking for questions. Please send some topical/interesting ones.'

That email was sent from DNC research director Lauren Dillon to other officials and staffers.

Days before that, on April 25 she asked for questions from officials and staffers for an interview that CNN's Wolf Blitzer would be conducting with Trump.

'Wolf Blitzer is interviewing Trump on Tues (sic) ahead of his foreign policy address on Wed,' Dillon wrote in the email that was entitled 'CNN questions for Trump.'

Numerous questions were submitted by a group of DNC staffers and officials for 68-year-old Blitzer to ask the billionaire.

However, in a follow-up email, she informed the group of staffers that the Trump interview ended up being cancelled.

'CNN said the interview was cancelled as of now but will keep the questions for the next one Good to have for others as well,' Dillon wrote in the email.

DNC deputy communications director Christina Freundlich responded to Dillion's email with 'Boo', seemingly showing that she was disappointed.

Blitzer, who has been working at CNN since 1990, did end up interviewing the real estate mogul on May 4.

That interview took place right after both Cruz and Ohio Gov. John Kasich dropped out of the Republican presidential race as candidates.

A CNN spokeswoman told the Daily Mail Online the emails are 'completely unremarkable'.


Source

And if you check Trumps email they probably asked his camp for questions they would want to ask Hillary.

But I'm sure people are much more interested in spinning this as a conspiracy.

The reverse would be improbable and highly surprising if it existed. CNN doesn't take much spinning to see the conspiracy. They've made their bed, now they can lie in it.

But do continue to defend the actions on behalf of the Hillary campaign for another two years, we need some more senate seat pickups. Next up is alleging the draft articles a couple outlets ran by podesta's crew before publication were probably also passed to lewandowski. I tend to think your affinity for their politics clouds your perspective of how a media covering public presidential campaigns should act privately in concert with presidential campaigns.


I trust you're equally disappointed that Breitbart was described by its leader (now White House chief strategist LOL) as all in on Trump.

I wonder if it's significant that the chairman of Fox News, after resigning, advised Trump for a presidential debate?

Or that Megyn Kelly alleges Trump was tipped off that her first question would be pointed and challenging?

I trust your lack of a peep on these issues is not evidence of bias on your part.

If you look at Breitbart and Fox News and like what you see, just wish everything was made more like them, I see no reason why you or anyone else should be disappointed.


I am not sure of your point because I don't like what I see with them. I'm saying you SHOULD be disappointed with them if you're disappointed in CNN.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
December 21 2016 17:51 GMT
#129151
On December 22 2016 02:42 oBlade wrote:
and that number rises even more among women. Three in ten (30 percent) Democratic women say they removed someone from a social network because of a political view.


I can think of an explanation for that.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
December 21 2016 17:57 GMT
#129152
I think all the trade deals are going to still happen, but Trump is going to parade points of the trade bills that he says he negotiated and made better. Most of them will likely be things already included and planned.
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
December 21 2016 18:06 GMT
#129153
ah right, like the carrier deal.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
December 21 2016 19:03 GMT
#129154
On December 22 2016 02:51 Doodsmack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 22 2016 02:42 oBlade wrote:
and that number rises even more among women. Three in ten (30 percent) Democratic women say they removed someone from a social network because of a political view.


I can think of an explanation for that.


Remember when Hillary tried to test the waters of Elizabeth Warren for VP, and the BernieBros dogpiled on her like flies on shit forcing the Hillary Campaign to bring in Kane?

Yeah, women have not gotten a lot of respect from liberals this year.
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
December 21 2016 19:09 GMT
#129155
On December 22 2016 04:03 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 22 2016 02:51 Doodsmack wrote:
On December 22 2016 02:42 oBlade wrote:
and that number rises even more among women. Three in ten (30 percent) Democratic women say they removed someone from a social network because of a political view.


I can think of an explanation for that.


Remember when Hillary tried to test the waters of Elizabeth Warren for VP, and the BernieBros dogpiled on her like flies on shit forcing the Hillary Campaign to bring in Kane?

Yeah, women have not gotten a lot of respect from liberals this year.


...You're saying Bernie supporters wanted Kaine instead of Warren? Kaine was like the last straw for a lot of Bernie supporters I know. Hell, even I was wildly disappointed. It was the most out of touch thing she could have possibly done.
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
December 21 2016 19:15 GMT
#129156
On December 22 2016 04:09 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 22 2016 04:03 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On December 22 2016 02:51 Doodsmack wrote:
On December 22 2016 02:42 oBlade wrote:
and that number rises even more among women. Three in ten (30 percent) Democratic women say they removed someone from a social network because of a political view.


I can think of an explanation for that.


Remember when Hillary tried to test the waters of Elizabeth Warren for VP, and the BernieBros dogpiled on her like flies on shit forcing the Hillary Campaign to bring in Kane?

Yeah, women have not gotten a lot of respect from liberals this year.


...You're saying Bernie supporters wanted Kaine instead of Warren? Kaine was like the last straw for a lot of Bernie supporters I know. Hell, even I was wildly disappointed. It was the most out of touch thing she could have possibly done.


I said that when Hillary tried getting a liberal VP, Bernie supporters crucified Warren. That doesn't mean BernieBros asked for Kain. But they definitely influenced the decision towards Kain.
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
December 21 2016 19:25 GMT
#129157
On December 22 2016 04:15 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 22 2016 04:09 Mohdoo wrote:
On December 22 2016 04:03 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On December 22 2016 02:51 Doodsmack wrote:
On December 22 2016 02:42 oBlade wrote:
and that number rises even more among women. Three in ten (30 percent) Democratic women say they removed someone from a social network because of a political view.


I can think of an explanation for that.


Remember when Hillary tried to test the waters of Elizabeth Warren for VP, and the BernieBros dogpiled on her like flies on shit forcing the Hillary Campaign to bring in Kane?

Yeah, women have not gotten a lot of respect from liberals this year.


...You're saying Bernie supporters wanted Kaine instead of Warren? Kaine was like the last straw for a lot of Bernie supporters I know. Hell, even I was wildly disappointed. It was the most out of touch thing she could have possibly done.


I said that when Hillary tried getting a liberal VP, Bernie supporters crucified Warren. That doesn't mean BernieBros asked for Kain. But they definitely influenced the decision towards Kain.


So people giving Warren crap for possibly associating with someone too conservative signaled to Clinton that they would prefer someone more conservative?
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
December 21 2016 19:34 GMT
#129158
I would like to see some credible sources on this possibly nonexistent dog piling on warren..
ZasZ.
Profile Joined May 2010
United States2911 Posts
December 21 2016 20:01 GMT
#129159
I also do not remember any organized dogpiling on Warren, and if it did occur, would be surprised if it actually affected the VP decision.

When correctly used, the term "BernieBro" refers to the extremely loud minority of Sanders supporters who were more interested in the "burn it all down" approach than supporting Sanders' proposals. This is why these people ended up voting for Trump instead of Clinton, and they were a tiny fraction of Sanders' support.

People make the same mistake that they did with the alt-right and assume that just because these people are loud and obnoxious, there are a lot of them. Don't be fooled.
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10989 Posts
December 21 2016 20:03 GMT
#129160
I'm not american but from all i read, warren was the only "non-bernie" solution the bernie or bust crowd.
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