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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On November 18 2016 01:11 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2016 00:13 zlefin wrote:On November 18 2016 00:10 ticklishmusic wrote:
The Director of National Intelligence James Clapper resigned. Will be interesting to hear why. looks most likely to simply be age and a long career of service. he's 75. not surprising to hear a 75 year old wants to retire. fiwi -> supporting hate doesn't seem liek a really good position  tricky issues without good answers; cutting down on hate makes sense, as does balance and fairness and letting people speak. but if they stick to the more egregious offenders it should be reasonable; doesn't really seem like the best issue to be veering right over. Im just so fed up with 90% of stances I read in news. CBC and their coverage of the election in Canada, oh man... Literally everything bad happening in Canada is because of Trump. To me, it seems like the left has not been learning anything from what is going on. The opinions keep being dismissed as crazy people who woke of from their hibernation... That every hate crime is because of Trump, for fucks sake. Yes, you have a large population of people who are told they are bad in every way, finally getting their way and they're happy. As both parties have their shitty people, these people will do something dumb, much like we would see SJW going around and saying how all these people are evil, and trying to restrict the speech of other people. Anyway, I'll take the Plansix being gone for a while as a victory, and keep supporting the right agenda, to at least raise awareness on the points. Hopefully people will stop dismissing these people eventually, and a compromise will be made eventually. For as long as a large percentage of the population completely dismisses the emotional arguments and unhappiness of the people without proper empathy and consideration, I think the right movement is a worthy cause, even though some groups take it too far.
CBC is canadian broadcasting company? I have no info on how they are; as it's US politics thread and i'm in US, I don't hear much about them.
the left movement is also a worthy cause, even though some groups take it too far. And a lot of people on the right dismiss the emotional arguments and unhappiness of some people without proper empathy and consideration.
It would make more sense if you took a stance against hate and vitriol, rather than against/for left/right.
It also seems like a misrepresentation of what is actually being said/done based on unfair magnification, but I'd have to review those media sources to tell.
Remember, media provide what people will watch, if oyu want better media you need to be willing to pay for it; and most people arent. Most people don't want to consume fair and reasonable viewpoints; that's on the people, not the media.
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Megyn Kelly on Wednesday admonished a supporter of President-elect Donald Trump who invoked Japanese internment camps as precedent for a proposed registry of Muslims.
On Fox News' "The Kelly File" program on Wednesday night, Carl Higbie, a former Navy SEAL who is a spokesman and cochair of Great America PAC, a super PAC that supported Trump's candidacy, argued in favor of the registry, which he compared to World War II-era Japanese internment camps.
Yahoo
It's just a constant stream of clownery from Trump and his team, but hopefully the US lands on double sixes in its dice roll journey.
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On November 18 2016 01:13 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2016 00:30 Doodsmack wrote:Ford (F) CEO Mark Fields, whose company was bashed by then-candidate Donald Trump for moving jobs to Mexico, told CNBC on Tuesday the automaker will not change its plans to fit with the president-elect's positions on tariffs.
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On Tuesday, Fields said the automaker will continue to focus on Mexico despite Trump's threats to impose tariffs on all vehicles built there and brought to the United States.
Such a tariff could impact the entire auto sector and economy, a risk the Republican administration would not want to take, Fields said. Yahoo I have a feeling the Republicans won't hesitate much in calling this bluff.
The problem is that house Republicans don't actually want tariffs-like at all-and they're the ones who actually know how a bill becomes a law and will write the legislation.
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On November 18 2016 01:47 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +Megyn Kelly on Wednesday admonished a supporter of President-elect Donald Trump who invoked Japanese internment camps as precedent for a proposed registry of Muslims.
On Fox News' "The Kelly File" program on Wednesday night, Carl Higbie, a former Navy SEAL who is a spokesman and cochair of Great America PAC, a super PAC that supported Trump's candidacy, argued in favor of the registry, which he compared to World War II-era Japanese internment camps. YahooIt's just a constant stream of clownery from Trump and his team, but hopefully the US lands on double sixes in its dice roll journey.
Are you even reading this stuff before you post it? Since when does "supporter" equal "team member?"
And for the record, he isn't factually wrong. Regardless of what you think about Japanese Internment, it does provide precedent for a registry of Muslims.
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It's really rich seeing the former chest thumping anti-PC crusaders upset that people are calling a turd a turd, when it's a turd they hold dear. What happened to preaching about 'telling it like it is'?
User was warned for this post
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On November 18 2016 01:52 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2016 01:47 Doodsmack wrote:Megyn Kelly on Wednesday admonished a supporter of President-elect Donald Trump who invoked Japanese internment camps as precedent for a proposed registry of Muslims.
On Fox News' "The Kelly File" program on Wednesday night, Carl Higbie, a former Navy SEAL who is a spokesman and cochair of Great America PAC, a super PAC that supported Trump's candidacy, argued in favor of the registry, which he compared to World War II-era Japanese internment camps. YahooIt's just a constant stream of clownery from Trump and his team, but hopefully the US lands on double sixes in its dice roll journey. Are you even reading this stuff before you post it? Since when does "supporter" equal "team member?" And for the record, he isn't factually wrong. Regardless of what you think about Japanese Internment, it does provide precedent for a registry of Muslims.
Buck v. Bell hasn't been explicitly over-turned either, but that doesn't mean that the case's approval of compulsory sterilization of the mentally handicapped is still good law.
Even Scalia said that Korematsu was wrong.
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On November 18 2016 01:56 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2016 01:52 xDaunt wrote:On November 18 2016 01:47 Doodsmack wrote:Megyn Kelly on Wednesday admonished a supporter of President-elect Donald Trump who invoked Japanese internment camps as precedent for a proposed registry of Muslims.
On Fox News' "The Kelly File" program on Wednesday night, Carl Higbie, a former Navy SEAL who is a spokesman and cochair of Great America PAC, a super PAC that supported Trump's candidacy, argued in favor of the registry, which he compared to World War II-era Japanese internment camps. YahooIt's just a constant stream of clownery from Trump and his team, but hopefully the US lands on double sixes in its dice roll journey. Are you even reading this stuff before you post it? Since when does "supporter" equal "team member?" And for the record, he isn't factually wrong. Regardless of what you think about Japanese Internment, it does provide precedent for a registry of Muslims. Buck v. Bell hasn't been explicitly over-turned either, but that doesn't mean that the case's approval of compulsory sterilization of the mentally handicapped is still good law. Even Scalia said that Korematsu was wrong.
As to the application or as to the general rule? No one disputes the applicability of strict scrutiny analysis in situations like these.
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On November 18 2016 02:04 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2016 01:56 farvacola wrote:On November 18 2016 01:52 xDaunt wrote:On November 18 2016 01:47 Doodsmack wrote:Megyn Kelly on Wednesday admonished a supporter of President-elect Donald Trump who invoked Japanese internment camps as precedent for a proposed registry of Muslims.
On Fox News' "The Kelly File" program on Wednesday night, Carl Higbie, a former Navy SEAL who is a spokesman and cochair of Great America PAC, a super PAC that supported Trump's candidacy, argued in favor of the registry, which he compared to World War II-era Japanese internment camps. YahooIt's just a constant stream of clownery from Trump and his team, but hopefully the US lands on double sixes in its dice roll journey. Are you even reading this stuff before you post it? Since when does "supporter" equal "team member?" And for the record, he isn't factually wrong. Regardless of what you think about Japanese Internment, it does provide precedent for a registry of Muslims. Buck v. Bell hasn't been explicitly over-turned either, but that doesn't mean that the case's approval of compulsory sterilization of the mentally handicapped is still good law. Even Scalia said that Korematsu was wrong. As to the application or as to the general rule? No one disputes the applicability of strict scrutiny analysis in situations like these.
One of the problems with looking to single splash cases like Korematsu for precedent is that the distinction between a facial and as-applied precedent becomes blurry due to the lack of subsequent judicial application. In essence, Korematsu held that WW2 justified executive action in the form of racial internment (AKA narrowly tailored to a compelling government interest); without subsequent precedent, extending that in any meaningful way without reference to the extremely unique implications of WW2 becomes practically impossible.
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On November 18 2016 02:11 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2016 02:04 xDaunt wrote:On November 18 2016 01:56 farvacola wrote:On November 18 2016 01:52 xDaunt wrote:On November 18 2016 01:47 Doodsmack wrote:Megyn Kelly on Wednesday admonished a supporter of President-elect Donald Trump who invoked Japanese internment camps as precedent for a proposed registry of Muslims.
On Fox News' "The Kelly File" program on Wednesday night, Carl Higbie, a former Navy SEAL who is a spokesman and cochair of Great America PAC, a super PAC that supported Trump's candidacy, argued in favor of the registry, which he compared to World War II-era Japanese internment camps. YahooIt's just a constant stream of clownery from Trump and his team, but hopefully the US lands on double sixes in its dice roll journey. Are you even reading this stuff before you post it? Since when does "supporter" equal "team member?" And for the record, he isn't factually wrong. Regardless of what you think about Japanese Internment, it does provide precedent for a registry of Muslims. Buck v. Bell hasn't been explicitly over-turned either, but that doesn't mean that the case's approval of compulsory sterilization of the mentally handicapped is still good law. Even Scalia said that Korematsu was wrong. As to the application or as to the general rule? No one disputes the applicability of strict scrutiny analysis in situations like these. One of the problems with looking to single splash cases like Korematsu for precedent is that the distinction between a facial and as-applied precedent becomes blurry due to the lack of subsequent judicial application. In essence, Korematsu held that WW2 justified executive action in the form of racial internment (AKA narrowly tailored to a compelling government interest); without subsequent precedent, extending that in any meaningful way without reference to the extremely unique implications of WW2 becomes practically impossible.
Yes, and you can bet that these issues would be discussed at length by a Court after both sides briefed the issues in depth. So like I said, Higbie is entirely correct in saying that Korematsu/Japanese internment provide precedence for a Muslim registry. Yes, the factual circumstances are different, but you already know how each side will argue it.
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On November 18 2016 01:52 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2016 01:47 Doodsmack wrote:Megyn Kelly on Wednesday admonished a supporter of President-elect Donald Trump who invoked Japanese internment camps as precedent for a proposed registry of Muslims.
On Fox News' "The Kelly File" program on Wednesday night, Carl Higbie, a former Navy SEAL who is a spokesman and cochair of Great America PAC, a super PAC that supported Trump's candidacy, argued in favor of the registry, which he compared to World War II-era Japanese internment camps. YahooIt's just a constant stream of clownery from Trump and his team, but hopefully the US lands on double sixes in its dice roll journey. Are you even reading this stuff before you post it? Since when does "supporter" equal "team member?" And for the record, he isn't factually wrong. Regardless of what you think about Japanese Internment, it does provide precedent for a registry of Muslims.
I guess there is a precedent for slavery too.
I know you mean legal precedent and that there is the 13th amendment but its still a ridiculous statement.
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The point is that without subsequent, extending precedent, Korematsu only provides precedent for itself. Accordingly, Higbie isn't entirely correct, he's asserting a legal viewpoint as to a prior case that has not been endorsed by a judicial body.
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On November 18 2016 02:22 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2016 01:52 xDaunt wrote:On November 18 2016 01:47 Doodsmack wrote:Megyn Kelly on Wednesday admonished a supporter of President-elect Donald Trump who invoked Japanese internment camps as precedent for a proposed registry of Muslims.
On Fox News' "The Kelly File" program on Wednesday night, Carl Higbie, a former Navy SEAL who is a spokesman and cochair of Great America PAC, a super PAC that supported Trump's candidacy, argued in favor of the registry, which he compared to World War II-era Japanese internment camps. YahooIt's just a constant stream of clownery from Trump and his team, but hopefully the US lands on double sixes in its dice roll journey. Are you even reading this stuff before you post it? Since when does "supporter" equal "team member?" And for the record, he isn't factually wrong. Regardless of what you think about Japanese Internment, it does provide precedent for a registry of Muslims. I guess there is a precedent for slavery too. I know you mean legal precedent and that there is the 13th amendment but its still a ridiculous statement.
EDIT: Alright, you fixed your ridiculous post.
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The supreme court case for internment camps is a disgrace.
Its up there with Dredd Scott and Plessy v Ferguson.
I still stand by my post. I know you are arguing legal precedent but its a dark day for our country if anyone tries to actually use that in a courtroom.
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On November 18 2016 02:22 farvacola wrote:
The point is that without subsequent, extending precedent, Korematsu only provides precedent for itself. Accordingly, Higbie isn't entirely correct, he's asserting a legal viewpoint as to a prior case that has not been endorsed by a judicial body.
Start thinking like a judge and not an advocate. Korematsu absolutely, unequivocally is precedent that would be considered by a court. What you're doing is making arguments against the weight of its precedental value.
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On November 18 2016 01:52 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2016 01:47 Doodsmack wrote:Megyn Kelly on Wednesday admonished a supporter of President-elect Donald Trump who invoked Japanese internment camps as precedent for a proposed registry of Muslims.
On Fox News' "The Kelly File" program on Wednesday night, Carl Higbie, a former Navy SEAL who is a spokesman and cochair of Great America PAC, a super PAC that supported Trump's candidacy, argued in favor of the registry, which he compared to World War II-era Japanese internment camps. YahooIt's just a constant stream of clownery from Trump and his team, but hopefully the US lands on double sixes in its dice roll journey. Are you even reading this stuff before you post it? Since when does "supporter" equal "team member?" And for the record, he isn't factually wrong. Regardless of what you think about Japanese Internment, it does provide precedent for a registry of Muslims.
Well a Super PAC is pretty damn close. It's also a strain of thought in support of Trump's immigration policies.
And the assertion "technically it's legal precedent" is not very interesting because this debate is over whether it's right.
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On November 18 2016 02:36 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2016 02:22 farvacola wrote:
The point is that without subsequent, extending precedent, Korematsu only provides precedent for itself. Accordingly, Higbie isn't entirely correct, he's asserting a legal viewpoint as to a prior case that has not been endorsed by a judicial body. Start thinking like a judge and not an advocate. Korematsu absolutely, unequivocally is precedent that would be considered by a court. What you're doing is making arguments against the weight of its precedental value.
In 72 years, a court has never held that Korematsu is legal precedent with regards to any of its holdings. Until one does, strictly speaking, Korematsu only sets a precedent relative to its specific set of facts.
I'll pass this by the federal judge I'm working for and tell you what he says, given that you've insisted that I think like one 
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On November 17 2016 21:04 Yurie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2016 20:52 GoTuNk! wrote:This paragraph makes no sense at all: During the campaign, Trump said he might have supported the internment of Japanese-Americans at the time. “I would have had to be there at the time to tell you, to give you a proper answer,” Trump told Time last December. “I certainly hate the concept of it. But I would have had to be there at the time to give you a proper answer.” It makes a lot of sense. He positions himself in the mindset of the period and takes the same position as the US did at the time. Then he puts in a caveat due to not knowing everything about the period when simulating what he would do. I see that as a reasonable statement compared to people that say they would raise an outcry against it in that time period without considering the difference in upbringing they would have had. Most people just go with the status quo, even if that is horrible and unfair. If you don't know the people in question and people you trust say it is necessary chances are you would support it especially when you never know the details.
Exactly. "During the campaign, Trump said he might have supported the internment of Japanese-Americans at the time" is really stretching in a partisan way his words. Your intepretation of "I don't like them but maybe stuff and context was different" is a more accurate interpretation.
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On November 18 2016 02:48 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2016 02:36 xDaunt wrote:On November 18 2016 02:22 farvacola wrote:
The point is that without subsequent, extending precedent, Korematsu only provides precedent for itself. Accordingly, Higbie isn't entirely correct, he's asserting a legal viewpoint as to a prior case that has not been endorsed by a judicial body. Start thinking like a judge and not an advocate. Korematsu absolutely, unequivocally is precedent that would be considered by a court. What you're doing is making arguments against the weight of its precedental value. In 72 years, a court has never held that Korematsu is legal precedent with regards to any of its holdings. Until one does, strictly speaking, Korematsu only sets a precedent relative to its specific set of facts. I'll pass this by the federal judge I'm working for and tell you what he says, given that you've insisted that I think like one
But that's the point: until Korematsu is overruled, it is still legal precedent unless a court distinguishes it from the case at hand. I strongly suspect that Korematsu won't hold up, but until it's gone, it must be dealt with one way or the other.
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Korematsu is precedent theoretically/ by definition as xDaunt says though in practice no one has done so because in practice no judge is going to agree. So it's kind of worthless precedent - it's not Bush v Gore where the court explicitly states "Our consideration is limited to the present circumstances" but it's pretty close for all practical purposes.
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Looks like Flynn is going to take over as NSA.
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EPT
