In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!
NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
On November 10 2016 02:01 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: So the only hope this country has right now is if Trump sends Pence on tedious VP jobs and not allow him any sort of power base while Trump becomes a moderate technocrat.
Sure as hell won't happen with Bannon who describes himself as a Leninist out to destroy the state...
Trump has shown himself to be completely unable to let even the most minor grudges/offenses go so I'm mostly expecting Trump to constantly fall into the trap of doing things just to spite other people that happened to disagree with him recently.
Either way the one thing the country deserves is for Trump to have full access to his Twitter account again.
My country is screwed
We got the winner for the first nuke of the Trump Era !!!
Well if i'm going to die at least being nuked by the most powerful moron in the world is a memorable way to go.
On November 10 2016 02:01 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: So the only hope this country has right now is if Trump sends Pence on tedious VP jobs and not allow him any sort of power base while Trump becomes a moderate technocrat.
Sure as hell won't happen with Bannon who describes himself as a Leninist out to destroy the state...
Trump has shown himself to be completely unable to let even the most minor grudges/offenses go so I'm mostly expecting Trump to constantly fall into the trap of doing things just to spite other people that happened to disagree with him recently.
Either way the one thing the country deserves is for Trump to have full access to his Twitter account again.
On November 10 2016 02:01 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: So the only hope this country has right now is if Trump sends Pence on tedious VP jobs and not allow him any sort of power base while Trump becomes a moderate technocrat.
Sure as hell won't happen with Bannon who describes himself as a Leninist out to destroy the state...
I mean one of Trump's latest policy pitches was to put a total freeze on federal agency hiring and require the repeal of two regulations for every new one implemented
I don't think that's very compatible with technocrat
From the National Review. It seems a little bit light in mea culpa.
He did it. Donald Trump has just won the biggest upset in American history. In September we suggested that Republicans redeploy resources from the presidential race to the House and Senate races, in part because of polls that indicated that to win Trump would have to make up more ground more rapidly than any previous successful presidential candidate had done. He made up that ground, aided by Hillary Clinton’s recklessness with an e-mail server and her general inadequacy. Our congratulations to President-elect Trump, and provisional congratulations to the millions of Americans who have invested their hopes in him.
During the campaign Trump made many pledges: to nominate conservative justices, to crack down on illegal immigration, to reform the tax code, to protect religious liberty, and to replace Obamacare. His liberal history and his evident lack of interest in these issues created doubts among many conservatives. We hope he now proves us doubters wrong. To do that he will have to show a self-control that was not uniformly present during his campaign but that characterized his most successful moments of it. Congressional Republicans, who retained a majority in both chambers, should do what they can to reinforce Trump’s better instincts.
They should also temper “Trumpism.” To the extent that the election was a referendum on any issue, immigration was that issue. Trump originally gave voice to a restrictionist impulse on the part of the public and eventually reached the right position: for an entry-exit tracking system, stronger barriers at the border, and sanctions for businesses that hire illegal immigrants — but without either mass deportations or, until these policies are in place, amnesty. On that issue he should stick to the position on which he campaigned in the general election.
On trade, Trump has also carved out a distinctive position, but one that has less to recommend it. Further reductions in trade barriers may no longer be in the offing — but Trump should consider whether ripping up existing trade agreements and levying new tariffs will really yield results that enhance either our economy or his popularity. His foreign policy has seemed like a work in progress. He has said he wants to pressure allies to contribute more to the common defense; but he also rightly criticized President Obama for making those allies less confident in our commitment to them. Achieving both of Trump’s goals seems likely to require delicate diplomacy. But if one of those goals has to be sacrificed, the alliances are worth their budgetary price. Needless to say, we also hope he adopts a more clear-eyed view of Vladimir Putin’s Russia.
Finally, rounding out our list of Trump’s major departures from conservative policy orthodoxy, there is the matter of entitlements. Trump has declared himself against cuts. So be it. But if we are to avoid middle-class tax increases or rising debt, we will have to restrain the growth of benefits.
Impressive as Trump’s victory was — and it was extremely impressive — he was elected by a country that questions his fitness for office and his honesty. It has been a long time since Americans believed that a president would govern in the interests of the entire people, not just his favored slice of it, and that distrust has crested in this election. Here too he should try to prove his critics wrong. He hit grace notes in his speech last night and he should continue to endeavor to show humility in this, his moment of supreme triumph.
I would say the only way things won't get drastically worse for Americans for a while is if Trump gets swallowed up by the system and isn't able to do any of the ridiculous shit he wants to do.
On November 10 2016 01:55 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Now Obama appoint Sanders as the DNC Chair and get the fuck out of the way so he can start rebuilding.
His post primary campaign died before it was born. Why on earth would you give him the DNC?
On November 10 2016 02:15 Nevuk wrote: If the DNC really doubles down on attacking Bernie for the loss they may flat out lose millennial support for a generation.
Wait, are they doing this? If democrats lose union whites, democrats lose everything. Social justice can only get you so far.
On November 10 2016 02:14 Jockmcplop wrote: I would say the only way things won't get drastically worse for Americans for a while is if Trump gets swallowed up by the system and isn't able to do any of the ridiculous shit he wants to do.
Imo there is a worst case scenario than a Trump fighting with the institutions : a Mike Pence taking full control, like Dick Cheney did in its time, and enforcing stupid law against abortion and such.
On November 10 2016 01:55 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Now Obama appoint Sanders as the DNC Chair and get the fuck out of the way so he can start rebuilding.
Seriously. We need populism. People are focusing on the wrong part of Bernie. Bernie was really distinguished from Clinton from a left/far-left perspective, but that's not why Bernie crushed Clinton in Wisconsin. He crushed her in Wisconsin because he reached out to underemployed whites. He told them he would defend them and that the corporate/political elite were stealing from them. That got them to back Bernie and it is why Bernie crushed Clinton. Clinton adopting all the liberal parts of Bernie's platform without the direct protectionist populism was missing the point. This election had nothing to do with left vs right. It was populism vs the elite.
my spin is it was about irresponsible but gratifying politics vs sensible politics. the irrationality and emotions won out.
Your message is that we have to eat shit because that's the way things are. That is why Hillary lost. Your definition of sensible assumes that only wealthy people are important. That definition used to be true, but in the information age that hubris is easily exploited. It is in no way unreasonable to think that massive change can be achieved if desired. The problem is that Hillary could not even acknowledge that the working and middle classes are in the worst position they've ever been as a result of years of the same half measures she proposes.
On November 10 2016 02:15 Nevuk wrote: If the DNC really doubles down on attacking Bernie for the loss they may flat out lose millennial support for a generation.
Wait, are they doing this? If democrats lose union whites, democrats lose everything. Social justice can only get you so far.
Not American and not invested in this either way, but it seems very fitting to me (although perhaps in a schadenfreude sort of way). There are ways of advocating for equality and justice without directly and unabashedly generalizing and demonizing huge portions of your population, but on the internet and what press I've seen from Western countries, people don't seem to realize that; if it should lead to their downfall, it is a righteous and sensible downfall in my eyes.
On November 10 2016 01:55 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Now Obama appoint Sanders as the DNC Chair and get the fuck out of the way so he can start rebuilding.
Seriously. We need populism. People are focusing on the wrong part of Bernie. Bernie was really distinguished from Clinton from a left/far-left perspective, but that's not why Bernie crushed Clinton in Wisconsin. He crushed her in Wisconsin because he reached out to underemployed whites. He told them he would defend them and that the corporate/political elite were stealing from them. That got them to back Bernie and it is why Bernie crushed Clinton. Clinton adopting all the liberal parts of Bernie's platform without the direct protectionist populism was missing the point. This election had nothing to do with left vs right. It was populism vs the elite.
my spin is it was about irresponsible but gratifying politics vs sensible politics. the irrationality and emotions won out.
Your message is that we have to eat shit because that's the way things are. That is why Hillary lost. Your definition of sensible assumes that only wealthy people are important. That definition used to be true, but in the information age that hubris is easily exploited. It is in no way unreasonable to think that massive change can be achieved if desired. The problem is that Hillary could not even acknowledge that the working and middle classes are in the worst position they've ever been as a result of years of the same half measures she proposes.
what exactly is your policy scenario here? pretty curious. what does a 'not eat shit' plan look like.
On November 10 2016 02:22 farvacola wrote: Trump may have actually opened the door wider for socialism than Hillary would.
Exactly what I was thinking about.
xDaunt will be part of it.
in the world where the populist wave is fully captured by the GOP, leading to repeal of dodd frank and neutering anti-trust, FCPA, the alphabet soup of regulatory agencies.
that world is not a path towards socialism, the revolution would not come.
But to be fair guys, american presidents do not have much power. The separation of powers prevents dumb shit from happening. Moreover, presidents are surrounded by public affair experts. So even with a brainded president, the system can still work just fine. Policy decisions are carried by the public administration (guys with massive brains).
Presidents have basically 2 roles. 1) carrying a vision 2) International representation
The day to day politics is not going to change much (apart from some mainstream policies).