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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 6137

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Jockmcplop
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom9716 Posts
November 09 2016 17:10 GMT
#122721
On November 10 2016 02:08 SkrollK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2016 02:05 Jockmcplop wrote:
On November 10 2016 02:03 Logo wrote:
On November 10 2016 02:01 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
So the only hope this country has right now is if Trump sends Pence on tedious VP jobs and not allow him any sort of power base while Trump becomes a moderate technocrat.

Sure as hell won't happen with Bannon who describes himself as a Leninist out to destroy the state...


Trump has shown himself to be completely unable to let even the most minor grudges/offenses go so I'm mostly expecting Trump to constantly fall into the trap of doing things just to spite other people that happened to disagree with him recently.

Either way the one thing the country deserves is for Trump to have full access to his Twitter account again.


My country is screwed



We got the winner for the first nuke of the Trump Era !!!



Well if i'm going to die at least being nuked by the most powerful moron in the world is a memorable way to go.
RIP Meatloaf <3
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18838 Posts
November 09 2016 17:10 GMT
#122722
Democrats need to refrain from bringing up the Clintons for a long while, I think.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-09 17:12:05
November 09 2016 17:11 GMT
#122723
On November 10 2016 02:10 Jockmcplop wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2016 02:08 SkrollK wrote:
On November 10 2016 02:05 Jockmcplop wrote:
On November 10 2016 02:03 Logo wrote:
On November 10 2016 02:01 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
So the only hope this country has right now is if Trump sends Pence on tedious VP jobs and not allow him any sort of power base while Trump becomes a moderate technocrat.

Sure as hell won't happen with Bannon who describes himself as a Leninist out to destroy the state...


Trump has shown himself to be completely unable to let even the most minor grudges/offenses go so I'm mostly expecting Trump to constantly fall into the trap of doing things just to spite other people that happened to disagree with him recently.

Either way the one thing the country deserves is for Trump to have full access to his Twitter account again.


My country is screwed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkkzB-754ds


We got the winner for the first nuke of the Trump Era !!!



Well if i'm going to die at least being nuked by the most powerful moron in the world is a memorable way to go.

I think he has a golfcourse in the UK. Wouldn't want to spread radioactive dust to that now would we. Totally spoils the experience.

Give the man back his twitter account and a lawyer to sue the retards in the british governement for libel /s.
Porouscloud - NA LoL
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
November 09 2016 17:12 GMT
#122724
On November 10 2016 02:01 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
So the only hope this country has right now is if Trump sends Pence on tedious VP jobs and not allow him any sort of power base while Trump becomes a moderate technocrat.

Sure as hell won't happen with Bannon who describes himself as a Leninist out to destroy the state...


I mean one of Trump's latest policy pitches was to put a total freeze on federal agency hiring and require the repeal of two regulations for every new one implemented

I don't think that's very compatible with technocrat
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
November 09 2016 17:13 GMT
#122725
From the National Review. It seems a little bit light in mea culpa.

He did it. Donald Trump has just won the biggest upset in American history. In September we suggested that Republicans redeploy resources from the presidential race to the House and Senate races, in part because of polls that indicated that to win Trump would have to make up more ground more rapidly than any previous successful presidential candidate had done. He made up that ground, aided by Hillary Clinton’s recklessness with an e-mail server and her general inadequacy. Our congratulations to President-elect Trump, and provisional congratulations to the millions of Americans who have invested their hopes in him.

During the campaign Trump made many pledges: to nominate conservative justices, to crack down on illegal immigration, to reform the tax code, to protect religious liberty, and to replace Obamacare. His liberal history and his evident lack of interest in these issues created doubts among many conservatives. We hope he now proves us doubters wrong. To do that he will have to show a self-control that was not uniformly present during his campaign but that characterized his most successful moments of it. Congressional Republicans, who retained a majority in both chambers, should do what they can to reinforce Trump’s better instincts.

They should also temper “Trumpism.” To the extent that the election was a referendum on any issue, immigration was that issue. Trump originally gave voice to a restrictionist impulse on the part of the public and eventually reached the right position: for an entry-exit tracking system, stronger barriers at the border, and sanctions for businesses that hire illegal immigrants — but without either mass deportations or, until these policies are in place, amnesty. On that issue he should stick to the position on which he campaigned in the general election.

On trade, Trump has also carved out a distinctive position, but one that has less to recommend it. Further reductions in trade barriers may no longer be in the offing — but Trump should consider whether ripping up existing trade agreements and levying new tariffs will really yield results that enhance either our economy or his popularity. His foreign policy has seemed like a work in progress. He has said he wants to pressure allies to contribute more to the common defense; but he also rightly criticized President Obama for making those allies less confident in our commitment to them. Achieving both of Trump’s goals seems likely to require delicate diplomacy. But if one of those goals has to be sacrificed, the alliances are worth their budgetary price. Needless to say, we also hope he adopts a more clear-eyed view of Vladimir Putin’s Russia.

Finally, rounding out our list of Trump’s major departures from conservative policy orthodoxy, there is the matter of entitlements. Trump has declared himself against cuts. So be it. But if we are to avoid middle-class tax increases or rising debt, we will have to restrain the growth of benefits.

Impressive as Trump’s victory was — and it was extremely impressive — he was elected by a country that questions his fitness for office and his honesty. It has been a long time since Americans believed that a president would govern in the interests of the entire people, not just his favored slice of it, and that distrust has crested in this election. Here too he should try to prove his critics wrong. He hit grace notes in his speech last night and he should continue to endeavor to show humility in this, his moment of supreme triumph.


Source.
Rebs
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Pakistan10726 Posts
November 09 2016 17:13 GMT
#122726
On November 10 2016 02:10 farvacola wrote:
Democrats need to refrain from bringing up the Clintons for a long while, I think.


Yeah the Clintons are done..
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
November 09 2016 17:14 GMT
#122727
On November 10 2016 02:10 farvacola wrote:
Democrats need to refrain from bringing up the Clintons for a long while, I think.


They never need to brought up again let alone the power if the purse.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Jockmcplop
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom9716 Posts
November 09 2016 17:14 GMT
#122728
I would say the only way things won't get drastically worse for Americans for a while is if Trump gets swallowed up by the system and isn't able to do any of the ridiculous shit he wants to do.
RIP Meatloaf <3
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
November 09 2016 17:15 GMT
#122729
If the DNC really doubles down on attacking Bernie for the loss they may flat out lose millennial support for a generation.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
November 09 2016 17:15 GMT
#122730
Notably, I'm not seeing anything from Bill Kristol over at The Weekly Standard. He knows that he bet large and lost large on this one.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21952 Posts
November 09 2016 17:17 GMT
#122731
On November 10 2016 01:55 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Now Obama appoint Sanders as the DNC Chair and get the fuck out of the way so he can start rebuilding.

His post primary campaign died before it was born.
Why on earth would you give him the DNC?
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15723 Posts
November 09 2016 17:17 GMT
#122732
On November 10 2016 02:15 Nevuk wrote:
If the DNC really doubles down on attacking Bernie for the loss they may flat out lose millennial support for a generation.


Wait, are they doing this? If democrats lose union whites, democrats lose everything. Social justice can only get you so far.
WhiteDog
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France8650 Posts
November 09 2016 17:18 GMT
#122733
On November 10 2016 02:14 Jockmcplop wrote:
I would say the only way things won't get drastically worse for Americans for a while is if Trump gets swallowed up by the system and isn't able to do any of the ridiculous shit he wants to do.

Imo there is a worst case scenario than a Trump fighting with the institutions : a Mike Pence taking full control, like Dick Cheney did in its time, and enforcing stupid law against abortion and such.
"every time WhiteDog overuses the word "seriously" in a comment I can make an observation on his fragile emotional state." MoltkeWarding
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
November 09 2016 17:19 GMT
#122734
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Jormundr
Profile Joined July 2011
United States1678 Posts
November 09 2016 17:20 GMT
#122735
On November 10 2016 02:04 oneofthem wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2016 01:59 Mohdoo wrote:
On November 10 2016 01:55 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Now Obama appoint Sanders as the DNC Chair and get the fuck out of the way so he can start rebuilding.


Seriously. We need populism. People are focusing on the wrong part of Bernie. Bernie was really distinguished from Clinton from a left/far-left perspective, but that's not why Bernie crushed Clinton in Wisconsin. He crushed her in Wisconsin because he reached out to underemployed whites. He told them he would defend them and that the corporate/political elite were stealing from them. That got them to back Bernie and it is why Bernie crushed Clinton. Clinton adopting all the liberal parts of Bernie's platform without the direct protectionist populism was missing the point. This election had nothing to do with left vs right. It was populism vs the elite.

my spin is it was about irresponsible but gratifying politics vs sensible politics. the irrationality and emotions won out.


Your message is that we have to eat shit because that's the way things are. That is why Hillary lost. Your definition of sensible assumes that only wealthy people are important. That definition used to be true, but in the information age that hubris is easily exploited. It is in no way unreasonable to think that massive change can be achieved if desired. The problem is that Hillary could not even acknowledge that the working and middle classes are in the worst position they've ever been as a result of years of the same half measures she proposes.
Capitalism is beneficial for people who work harder than other people. Under capitalism the only way to make more money is to work harder then your competitors whether they be other companies or workers. ~ Vegetarian
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18838 Posts
November 09 2016 17:22 GMT
#122736
Trump may have actually opened the door wider for socialism than Hillary would.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
207aicila
Profile Joined January 2015
1237 Posts
November 09 2016 17:22 GMT
#122737
On November 10 2016 02:17 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2016 02:15 Nevuk wrote:
If the DNC really doubles down on attacking Bernie for the loss they may flat out lose millennial support for a generation.


Wait, are they doing this? If democrats lose union whites, democrats lose everything. Social justice can only get you so far.


Not American and not invested in this either way, but it seems very fitting to me (although perhaps in a schadenfreude sort of way). There are ways of advocating for equality and justice without directly and unabashedly generalizing and demonizing huge portions of your population, but on the internet and what press I've seen from Western countries, people don't seem to realize that; if it should lead to their downfall, it is a righteous and sensible downfall in my eyes.
mfw people who never followed BW speak about sAviOr as if they know anything... -___-''''
TL+ Member
WhiteDog
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France8650 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-09 17:24:23
November 09 2016 17:24 GMT
#122738
On November 10 2016 02:22 farvacola wrote:
Trump may have actually opened the door wider for socialism than Hillary would.

Exactly what I was thinking about.

xDaunt will be part of it.
"every time WhiteDog overuses the word "seriously" in a comment I can make an observation on his fragile emotional state." MoltkeWarding
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-09 17:26:45
November 09 2016 17:25 GMT
#122739
On November 10 2016 02:20 Jormundr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2016 02:04 oneofthem wrote:
On November 10 2016 01:59 Mohdoo wrote:
On November 10 2016 01:55 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Now Obama appoint Sanders as the DNC Chair and get the fuck out of the way so he can start rebuilding.


Seriously. We need populism. People are focusing on the wrong part of Bernie. Bernie was really distinguished from Clinton from a left/far-left perspective, but that's not why Bernie crushed Clinton in Wisconsin. He crushed her in Wisconsin because he reached out to underemployed whites. He told them he would defend them and that the corporate/political elite were stealing from them. That got them to back Bernie and it is why Bernie crushed Clinton. Clinton adopting all the liberal parts of Bernie's platform without the direct protectionist populism was missing the point. This election had nothing to do with left vs right. It was populism vs the elite.

my spin is it was about irresponsible but gratifying politics vs sensible politics. the irrationality and emotions won out.


Your message is that we have to eat shit because that's the way things are. That is why Hillary lost. Your definition of sensible assumes that only wealthy people are important. That definition used to be true, but in the information age that hubris is easily exploited. It is in no way unreasonable to think that massive change can be achieved if desired. The problem is that Hillary could not even acknowledge that the working and middle classes are in the worst position they've ever been as a result of years of the same half measures she proposes.

what exactly is your policy scenario here? pretty curious. what does a 'not eat shit' plan look like.


On November 10 2016 02:24 WhiteDog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2016 02:22 farvacola wrote:
Trump may have actually opened the door wider for socialism than Hillary would.

Exactly what I was thinking about.

xDaunt will be part of it.


in the world where the populist wave is fully captured by the GOP, leading to repeal of dodd frank and neutering anti-trust, FCPA, the alphabet soup of regulatory agencies.

that world is not a path towards socialism, the revolution would not come.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
Xialos
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Canada508 Posts
November 09 2016 17:25 GMT
#122740
But to be fair guys, american presidents do not have much power. The separation of powers prevents dumb shit from happening. Moreover, presidents are surrounded by public affair experts. So even with a brainded president, the system can still work just fine. Policy decisions are carried by the public administration (guys with massive brains).

Presidents have basically 2 roles. 1) carrying a vision 2) International representation

The day to day politics is not going to change much (apart from some mainstream policies).
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