In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!
NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
On November 10 2016 01:55 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Now Obama appoint Sanders as the DNC Chair and get the fuck out of the way so he can start rebuilding.
Seriously. We need populism. People are focusing on the wrong part of Bernie. Bernie was really distinguished from Clinton from a left/far-left perspective, but that's not why Bernie crushed Clinton in Wisconsin. He crushed her in Wisconsin because he reached out to underemployed whites. He told them he would defend them and that the corporate/political elite were stealing from them. That got them to back Bernie and it is why Bernie crushed Clinton. Clinton adopting all the liberal parts of Bernie's platform without the direct protectionist populism was missing the point. This election had nothing to do with left vs right. It was populism vs the elite.
On November 10 2016 01:55 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Now Obama appoint Sanders as the DNC Chair and get the fuck out of the way so he can start rebuilding.
How can bernie rebuild when he refuses to work with anyone and refuses to compromise? To me bernie is just as bad a choice as trump.
Yes totally, true, we all remember the time Bernie boasted about sexual assault.
So the only hope this country has right now is if Trump sends Pence on tedious VP jobs and not allow him any sort of power base while Trump becomes a moderate technocrat.
Sure as hell won't happen with Bannon who describes himself as a Leninist out to destroy the state...
On November 10 2016 01:55 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Now Obama appoint Sanders as the DNC Chair and get the fuck out of the way so he can start rebuilding.
Seriously. We need populism. People are focusing on the wrong part of Bernie. Bernie was really distinguished from Clinton from a left/far-left perspective, but that's not why Bernie crushed Clinton in Wisconsin. He crushed her in Wisconsin because he reached out to underemployed whites. He told them he would defend them and that the corporate/political elite were stealing from them. That got them to back Bernie and it is why Bernie crushed Clinton. Clinton adopting all the liberal parts of Bernie's platform without the direct protectionist populism was missing the point. This election had nothing to do with left vs right. It was populism vs the elite.
wait what is this? didn't you spend all primary shitting on the "college kids" supporting bernie?
On November 10 2016 01:55 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Now Obama appoint Sanders as the DNC Chair and get the fuck out of the way so he can start rebuilding.
How can bernie rebuild when he refuses to work with anyone and refuses to compromise? To me bernie is just as bad a choice as trump.
You serious mate? Bernie worked extremely closely with Democrats throughout the entirety of his political career - so much so that he was offered leadership positions on Senate committees which are normally reserved for the senior democrats. If that is not a sign of working closely, I'm not sure what is. But then again the CNN/NBC/Wapo/NYT was so deeply in the tank for Clinton that you probably believed everything they said about Bernie as gospel truth.
On November 10 2016 02:00 biology]major wrote: So I'm Assuming Lynch is done, Comey might stick around.
Given comey interfered with the election and Lynch did nothing wrong, you have a funny outlook on life. I seriously hope this is the last election that baby boomers get to be a part of.
On November 10 2016 00:10 oneofthem wrote: why would she concede when sanders is a policy dunce of historic caliber and lost by millions of votes? get over yourself, or not, and keep fighting the establishment.
Guess what. He couldn't have been worse than Hillary. Because she lost against the worst candidate republicans have fielded in 50 years. You are the policy dunce. You're the moron who thought that the current state of affairs just needed to be made more palatable to the idiotic masses. You were wrong. This country didn't want to continue the slow decline that Hillary promised. This country didn't want more of the same shitbirds who got us here. Now we have Trump. Maybe if Hillary hadn't cheated her way through the primary collusion with news networks and the DNC we wouldn't have DONALD J TRUMP AS A PRESIDENT, but hey you said that was fine because she would get elected. She didn't. Nobody wants your polished turd. There is literally nothing you can do to apologize the damage that you have done to minorities and the queer community in this country. A vote for Hillary in the primaries was a vote for Trump. You made america great again. Congratulations.
User was warned for this post
two things.
1. i am not a defender of the status quo/advocate for doing nothing. i'm very well aware of the depth of the problem beyond rosy gloss by official positions. which is why HRC's platform has a number of things specifically intended to address the continued labor market weakness, why yellen entertained running the economy hot for a few months without raising rates, why i wanted to see more of an issue based message from her etc.
2. continued war on HRC from the left, particularly the labor based groups, was very damaging. i would not blame the loss on this stuff but the far left quite obviously put war against establishment over the serious trump threat. at various points i've talked about how trump is for real and this is not the time to witch hunt HRC from the left, but no, she's the other devil in the race.
It was HRC that buried HRC. She showed disdain for the primary concerns of about 80% of the electorate in this race. Half of the dems voted for bernie (more would have if she hadn't learned how to put down dark horses after obama). All of the reps voted for trump. Every single one of those voters wanted to fix our broken ass economy so that people could afford their own dignity. HRC laughed at them. Like you, she told them they had no other choice. Her smug conceit may have secured her the trust of the upper class but that doesn't secure you a win anymore. She played old politics, where you just have to stay in line and protect the money and the status quo. She did this in a nation that was desperate for relief from an aristocracy which has been gaining traction for decades. She offered another Obamacare when the vast majority of people wanted universal healthcare.
you are basically looking for a different rhetorical presentation, some kind of war against the corporations. it's an expressive and emotive demand
Not particularly. The reality is that class warfare is perpetual, and we're starting to be on the shit end of the stick again. We're being fucked in the ass right now. She halfheartedly promised that we'd keep getting fucked in the ass, but nothing worse would happen. If she was smart enough to listen to the people she would have at least promised to negotiate it down to blowjobs on the weekend.
basically this chain of comments is what i'm talking about, you don't think she's credible on these messages even if she straight up recites your preferred policy platform and explains strong rationale behind them.
it's all about the credible messenger problem. this is a required attribute for a political candidate, but one that is not a moral deficiency of the kind you keep alleging. fact is you and a lot of people just operated at a symbolic level without actually understanding what she was about.
On November 10 2016 02:01 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: So the only hope this country has right now is if Trump sends Pence on tedious VP jobs and not allow him any sort of power base while Trump becomes a moderate technocrat.
Sure as hell won't happen with Bannon who describes himself as a Leninist out to destroy the state...
Trump has shown himself to be completely unable to let even the most minor grudges/offenses go so I'm mostly expecting Trump to constantly fall into the trap of doing things just to spite other people that happened to disagree with him recently.
Either way the one thing the country deserves is for Trump to have full access to his Twitter account again.
On November 10 2016 01:55 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Now Obama appoint Sanders as the DNC Chair and get the fuck out of the way so he can start rebuilding.
Seriously. We need populism. People are focusing on the wrong part of Bernie. Bernie was really distinguished from Clinton from a left/far-left perspective, but that's not why Bernie crushed Clinton in Wisconsin. He crushed her in Wisconsin because he reached out to underemployed whites. He told them he would defend them and that the corporate/political elite were stealing from them. That got them to back Bernie and it is why Bernie crushed Clinton. Clinton adopting all the liberal parts of Bernie's platform without the direct protectionist populism was missing the point. This election had nothing to do with left vs right. It was populism vs the elite.
my spin is it was about irresponsible but gratifying politics vs sensible politics. the irrationality and emotions won out.
On November 10 2016 01:55 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Now Obama appoint Sanders as the DNC Chair and get the fuck out of the way so he can start rebuilding.
Seriously. We need populism. People are focusing on the wrong part of Bernie. Bernie was really distinguished from Clinton from a left/far-left perspective, but that's not why Bernie crushed Clinton in Wisconsin. He crushed her in Wisconsin because he reached out to underemployed whites. He told them he would defend them and that the corporate/political elite were stealing from them. That got them to back Bernie and it is why Bernie crushed Clinton. Clinton adopting all the liberal parts of Bernie's platform without the direct protectionist populism was missing the point. This election had nothing to do with left vs right. It was populism vs the elite.
my spin is it was about irresponsible but gratifying politics vs sensible politics. the irrationality and emotions won out.
On November 10 2016 02:01 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: So the only hope this country has right now is if Trump sends Pence on tedious VP jobs and not allow him any sort of power base while Trump becomes a moderate technocrat.
Sure as hell won't happen with Bannon who describes himself as a Leninist out to destroy the state...
Trump has shown himself to be completely unable to let even the most minor grudges/offenses go so I'm mostly expecting Trump to constantly fall into the trap of doing things just to spite other people that happened to disagree with him recently.
Either way the one thing the country deserves is for Trump to have full access to his Twitter account again.
On November 10 2016 01:21 LegalLord wrote: East Europeans seem to be in a panic over Trump's earlier statements. You might see by the fact that Ukraine got brought into here.
I think only Ukrainians are in panic, those who are in NATO and pay their magic 2% shouldn't be too worried. Someone in my tv said the results don't really matter to us because "Trump doesn't know where Poland is and while Clinton knows, she doesn't care". And honestly, it's hard to blame them. It's not an important region.
You sell yourself short. Poland is quite significant as far as European nations go.
On November 10 2016 01:55 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Now Obama appoint Sanders as the DNC Chair and get the fuck out of the way so he can start rebuilding.
How can bernie rebuild when he refuses to work with anyone and refuses to compromise? To me bernie is just as bad a choice as trump.
On November 10 2016 00:10 oneofthem wrote: why would she concede when sanders is a policy dunce of historic caliber and lost by millions of votes? get over yourself, or not, and keep fighting the establishment.
Guess what. He couldn't have been worse than Hillary. Because she lost against the worst candidate republicans have fielded in 50 years. You are the policy dunce. You're the moron who thought that the current state of affairs just needed to be made more palatable to the idiotic masses. You were wrong. This country didn't want to continue the slow decline that Hillary promised. This country didn't want more of the same shitbirds who got us here. Now we have Trump. Maybe if Hillary hadn't cheated her way through the primary collusion with news networks and the DNC we wouldn't have DONALD J TRUMP AS A PRESIDENT, but hey you said that was fine because she would get elected. She didn't. Nobody wants your polished turd. There is literally nothing you can do to apologize the damage that you have done to minorities and the queer community in this country. A vote for Hillary in the primaries was a vote for Trump. You made america great again. Congratulations.
User was warned for this post
two things.
1. i am not a defender of the status quo/advocate for doing nothing. i'm very well aware of the depth of the problem beyond rosy gloss by official positions. which is why HRC's platform has a number of things specifically intended to address the continued labor market weakness, why yellen entertained running the economy hot for a few months without raising rates, why i wanted to see more of an issue based message from her etc.
2. continued war on HRC from the left, particularly the labor based groups, was very damaging. i would not blame the loss on this stuff but the far left quite obviously put war against establishment over the serious trump threat. at various points i've talked about how trump is for real and this is not the time to witch hunt HRC from the left, but no, she's the other devil in the race.
It was HRC that buried HRC. She showed disdain for the primary concerns of about 80% of the electorate in this race. Half of the dems voted for bernie (more would have if she hadn't learned how to put down dark horses after obama). All of the reps voted for trump. Every single one of those voters wanted to fix our broken ass economy so that people could afford their own dignity. HRC laughed at them. Like you, she told them they had no other choice. Her smug conceit may have secured her the trust of the upper class but that doesn't secure you a win anymore. She played old politics, where you just have to stay in line and protect the money and the status quo. She did this in a nation that was desperate for relief from an aristocracy which has been gaining traction for decades. She offered another Obamacare when the vast majority of people wanted universal healthcare.
you are basically looking for a different rhetorical presentation, some kind of war against the corporations. it's an expressive and emotive demand
Not particularly. The reality is that class warfare is perpetual, and we're starting to be on the shit end of the stick again. We're being fucked in the ass right now. She halfheartedly promised that we'd keep getting fucked in the ass, but nothing worse would happen. If she was smart enough to listen to the people she would have at least promised to negotiate it down to blowjobs on the weekend.
basically this chain of comments is what i'm talking about, you don't think she's credible on these messages even if she straight up recites your preferred policy platform and explain strong rationale behind them.
it's all about effusive credible messenger problem. this is a required attribute for a political candidate, but one that is not a moral deficiency of the kind you keep alleging. fact is you and a lot of people just operated at a symbolic level without actually understanding what she was about.
a failure of communication.
Haven't seen you post in a while (I don't frequent General anymore) but why do all your posts sound like top /r/iamverysmart material?
Take it from someone who studied English very intimately for a long time, replacing every possible word you can with a more complex, formal or otherwise underutilized synonym is not a measure of intelligence.
Just wanted to throw that out there, sorry for the off-topic.
On November 10 2016 01:55 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Now Obama appoint Sanders as the DNC Chair and get the fuck out of the way so he can start rebuilding.
Seriously. We need populism. People are focusing on the wrong part of Bernie. Bernie was really distinguished from Clinton from a left/far-left perspective, but that's not why Bernie crushed Clinton in Wisconsin. He crushed her in Wisconsin because he reached out to underemployed whites. He told them he would defend them and that the corporate/political elite were stealing from them. That got them to back Bernie and it is why Bernie crushed Clinton. Clinton adopting all the liberal parts of Bernie's platform without the direct protectionist populism was missing the point. This election had nothing to do with left vs right. It was populism vs the elite.
wait what is this? didn't you spend all primary shitting on the "college kids" supporting bernie?
Yes, which was missing the entire thrust of what made Bernie successful. I focused too much on what made Bernie distinct in terms of all the usual topics. I focused too much on how Bernie and Clinton varied on left-specific issues and didn't spend enough time acknowledging why Bernie was doing so well with rural whites.
The college kids were misguided by focusing on the differences between $12/$15 minimum wage and other liberal lip service. But they aren't the ones who lost Clinton the election. Biden focused on this and had sharp warnings for Democrats in October:
Yet Biden is also trying to be an antidote to Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton, who is deeply unpopular among white working-class voters.
The vice president says he wants Clinton and other Democrats to learn how to talk to people whose family income is about $75,000, about the average salary for a Clayton firefighter, and he wants them to understand why Trump is doing so well with these voters. “His appeal to their anger, their concern, their fears about the changes taking place in the country and the world, are not illegitimate,” he said. “I mean, this is one of those great transition periods in world history.”
These are the people who fled to Trump. These are the people who gave Wisconsin to Trump.
On November 10 2016 02:01 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: So the only hope this country has right now is if Trump sends Pence on tedious VP jobs and not allow him any sort of power base while Trump becomes a moderate technocrat.
Sure as hell won't happen with Bannon who describes himself as a Leninist out to destroy the state...
Trump has shown himself to be completely unable to let even the most minor grudges/offenses go so I'm mostly expecting Trump to constantly fall into the trap of doing things just to spite other people that happened to disagree with him recently.
Either way the one thing the country deserves is for Trump to have full access to his Twitter account again.
What would also be funny is if Trump does trade tariffs and the effect is just a total backfire from the intent. Countries in our sphere turn to China, the China Belt and Road initiative goes full bore lifting all boats in Eurasia, Iran becomes economic juggernaut due to being infrastructure/transportation link between China and Europe/Africa/ME.
By turning protectionist, the US loses its moderate control over the order of globalisation, globalisation continues full steam ahead, and the net effect of trump's changes is to worsen the stagnation of the white working class.
I will still be UMC drinking Starbucks and I will laugh.
On November 10 2016 01:55 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Now Obama appoint Sanders as the DNC Chair and get the fuck out of the way so he can start rebuilding.
Seriously. We need populism. People are focusing on the wrong part of Bernie. Bernie was really distinguished from Clinton from a left/far-left perspective, but that's not why Bernie crushed Clinton in Wisconsin. He crushed her in Wisconsin because he reached out to underemployed whites. He told them he would defend them and that the corporate/political elite were stealing from them. That got them to back Bernie and it is why Bernie crushed Clinton. Clinton adopting all the liberal parts of Bernie's platform without the direct protectionist populism was missing the point. This election had nothing to do with left vs right. It was populism vs the elite.
my spin is it was about irresponsible but gratifying politics vs sensible politics. the irrationality and emotions won out.
Which is why Bernie may have had a better shot
this was about the future of politics for me, so if bernie wins on the rhetoric of making war upon corporate america etc it wouldn't be that good. the information and trust deficit needs a bernie style burst of energy, but also a responsible and skilled administrator.
bernie is only one of the two.
maybe we can clone bill and run him again, kick out the rubinites and whatever.
EPT
