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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 5601

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
October 16 2016 03:04 GMT
#112001
On October 16 2016 12:01 TheYango wrote:
I thought the conclusion after the debate was that it was too close to call either way. Why the hell are we trying to argue this again in retrospect?

because bio asserted as fact (since changed to opinion) that trump completely smashed hillary in the debate.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
biology]major
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2253 Posts
October 16 2016 03:08 GMT
#112002
On October 16 2016 12:04 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 16 2016 12:01 TheYango wrote:
I thought the conclusion after the debate was that it was too close to call either way. Why the hell are we trying to argue this again in retrospect?

because bio asserted as fact (since changed to opinion) that trump completely smashed hillary in the debate.


yeah it's really not a big deal, regardless trumps chances at winning the election now are probably less than 1% if even that. It would have to be some sort of miraculous blunder combined with uneven turnout that defies polling. Other than that though, enjoy the circle jerk that this thread will become.
Question.?
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
October 16 2016 03:09 GMT
#112003
On October 16 2016 12:01 TheYango wrote:
I thought the conclusion after the debate was that it was too close to call either way. Why the hell are we trying to argue this again in retrospect?

Honestly the polls seem to favor Hillary more than we did for that debate, so I'll let them speak for themselves.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
October 16 2016 03:11 GMT
#112004
On October 16 2016 12:08 biology]major wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 16 2016 12:04 zlefin wrote:
On October 16 2016 12:01 TheYango wrote:
I thought the conclusion after the debate was that it was too close to call either way. Why the hell are we trying to argue this again in retrospect?

because bio asserted as fact (since changed to opinion) that trump completely smashed hillary in the debate.


yeah it's really not a big deal, regardless trumps chances at winning the election now are probably less than 1% if even that. It would have to be some sort of miraculous blunder combined with uneven turnout that defies polling. Other than that though, enjoy the circle jerk that this thread will become.

I'd ask people to refrain from using the phrase circle jerk, as its rather uncouth and unnecessary. also not entirely apt.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46540 Posts
October 16 2016 03:13 GMT
#112005
On October 16 2016 12:11 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 16 2016 12:08 biology]major wrote:
On October 16 2016 12:04 zlefin wrote:
On October 16 2016 12:01 TheYango wrote:
I thought the conclusion after the debate was that it was too close to call either way. Why the hell are we trying to argue this again in retrospect?

because bio asserted as fact (since changed to opinion) that trump completely smashed hillary in the debate.


yeah it's really not a big deal, regardless trumps chances at winning the election now are probably less than 1% if even that. It would have to be some sort of miraculous blunder combined with uneven turnout that defies polling. Other than that though, enjoy the circle jerk that this thread will become.

I'd ask people to refrain from using the phrase circle jerk, as its rather uncouth and unnecessary. also not entirely apt.


I take more issue with the "chances at winning the election now are probably less than 1% if even that" redundancy, but that's the mathematician + linguist in me.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Dan HH
Profile Joined July 2012
Romania9248 Posts
October 16 2016 03:22 GMT
#112006
On October 16 2016 12:01 TheYango wrote:
I thought the conclusion after the debate was that it was too close to call either way. Why the hell are we trying to argue this again in retrospect?

The conclusion right after the debate is based on how we estimate it will be seen. I thought it's mostly a tie and both voter blocks will see their candidate as a slight winner. Several days later we get data rather than an estimate we made up on the spot and it turns out I was wrong.

Then after the time of wild guesses has long expired someone comes in and says the other guy smashed the debate based on a gut feeling, hence the pointless two pages.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
October 16 2016 03:36 GMT
#112007
The entire "Hillary for prison" line of debate seems to have gone down a lot worse than I thought it would - and people were far less willing to let the tape issue go than I expected. I thought it was a tie but all data suggests it was a solid Clinton win.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
October 16 2016 03:40 GMT
#112008
I said the the prison line was all people would take away from that debate. It is unprecedented for a candidate to do that.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Blisse
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada3710 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-16 03:45:05
October 16 2016 03:43 GMT
#112009
So I started looking into the conflict of interest between the Clinton Foundation and Clinton's work... and it's completely intertwined in a way where the middle of the road is, "yeah there's no way you can really prove that there was conflict of interest, but why do it in the first place". And obviously you can lean either way, but there's no proof of "quid pro quo".

http://www.thompsontimeline.com/tag/paid-speeches/

Anyways there's a lot of areas of potential conflict of interest, but nothing concrete enough to actually charge her for apparently, otherwise we'd actually have charges. The timeline does not mention how a lot of the conflicts of interest brought up have essentially been shot down because there's not enough evidence of stuff happening (probably because they're more focused on her emails welp).

Anyways, I read through a bunch of stuff and this is the most interesting line I found.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/clinton-money/

Today, the two major national teachers’ unions rank among the Clintons’ biggest supporters. The National Education Association has contributed at least $1.3 million to bolster their races, while the American Federation of Teachers has given more than $756,000 to support them politically and at least $1 million to their foundation.

In July, AFT endorsed Hillary Clinton’s 2016 presidential bid — the first national union to do so.

The Clintons’ Arkansas experience would prove to be a template for their national approach. Time and again, they sided with business interests, infuriating their liberal allies. But the estrangement was rarely permanent.

“They made a very conscious move toward the center, in part probably because of fundraising demands and in part because of ideology,” said Andrew Stern, former president of the Service Employees International Union. “They believe — as I do — that the Democratic Party has to be pro-growth.”


I still feel uneasy about all of the conflict of interest, but Hillary has said that there is no evidence that she has changed her view or vote on anything because of donations to the foundation (can't find the quote for this). The quote above shows one instance at least where that is true.
There is no one like you in the universe.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
October 16 2016 03:47 GMT
#112010
On October 16 2016 12:40 Plansix wrote:
I said the the prison line was all people would take away from that debate. It is unprecedented for a candidate to do that.

I was quite sure that that would indeed be the defining moment of that debate, but I thought people who didn't like Hillary would be more fond of that line. It looks like that was very much not the case.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
CatharsisUT
Profile Joined March 2011
United States487 Posts
October 16 2016 03:53 GMT
#112011
On October 16 2016 12:47 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 16 2016 12:40 Plansix wrote:
I said the the prison line was all people would take away from that debate. It is unprecedented for a candidate to do that.

I was quite sure that that would indeed be the defining moment of that debate, but I thought people who didn't like Hillary would be more fond of that line. It looks like that was very much not the case.


As biomajor has shown, it was tremendously popular among people who already wanted to vote for Trump. You don't win anyone else over by threatening to jail your political opponent. I'm not sure how anyone could think there were people out there thinking to themselves "you know, I couldn't decide if I was going to vote for Hillary or Trump, but now that Trump says he'll put her in jail I'll definitely vote for Trump."

The current "rigged election" nonsense is going to do the same thing; rile up his minority base, but make everyone else think "yep, he's definitely a lunatic."
Deleted User 173346
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
16169 Posts
October 16 2016 03:58 GMT
#112012
--- Nuked ---
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
October 16 2016 04:04 GMT
#112013
From a news reporting perspective, the Yemen conflict has been remarkably invisible.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
GGTeMpLaR
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States7226 Posts
October 16 2016 04:11 GMT
#112014
On October 16 2016 13:04 LegalLord wrote:
From a news reporting perspective, the Yemen conflict has been remarkably invisible.


What Yemen conflict?
Blisse
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada3710 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-16 04:35:12
October 16 2016 04:34 GMT
#112015
http://www.vox.com/world/2016/10/14/13269580/us-bombing-yemen-houthis

The United States has backed the Saudi-led effort, in part because it shares some of Saudi Arabia’s concerns about Iranian influence in the region, but also because it has a strong interest in keeping the Saudis happy so they’ll support the US-led fight against ISIS in Iraq and Syria.

...

“There’s an American imprint on every civilian life lost in Yemen,” Democratic Sen. Chris Murphy told CNN’s Jake Tapper. “Though the Saudis are actually dropping the bombs from their planes, they wouldn’t be able to do it without us.”

Now, as we’ve seen, this has led to direct bombing. It’s not quite clearly why, exactly, missiles were fired at US warships. It could be retaliation for the US role in the Saudi campaign, a sign that the Houthis may be becoming more militarily and ideologically aligned with Iran, or something else entirely. The Houthis themselves deny responsibility for the missile attacks, making it even harder to figure out what’s going on.

The US retaliation, so far, has been relatively proportional. The US targeted radar installations, not civilian infrastructure; it appears to be a one-off retaliatory strike rather than the beginning of a broader offensive.


Gross :/
There is no one like you in the universe.
CorsairHero
Profile Joined December 2008
Canada9491 Posts
October 16 2016 05:23 GMT
#112016
Donald Trump has lost little support since the first presidential debate, despite days of damaging news stories about his treatment of women, according to a new poll.

Hillary Clinton leads Trump 47 percent to 43 percent among likely voters in a four-way race, according to the latest ABC News/Washington Post national poll. Libertarian nominee Gary Johnson trails with 5 percent and the Green Party’s Jill Stein is at 2 percent.

In the previous ABC/Post poll, taken before the Sept. 26 debate, Clinton led Trump 46 percent to 44 percent.

The new poll continues to show some dire numbers for Trump, however, just 25 days before Election Day.

Nearly 70 percent say they believe that Trump has “made unwanted sexual advances toward women,” a stunning number that comes after the publication of lewd comments the now-Republican nominee made on a hot mic in 2005, and amid allegations by several women who say he touched them inappropriately. (Trump has said his comments were just "locker room talk" and denies the groping accusations.)

And a majority of registered voters -- 55 percent -- say that Trump's treatment of women is a legitimate issue, version 42 percent who say it wasn't.

Similarly, most voters aren't buying Trump's apology for the 2005 video -- 57 percent of registered voters say it was insincere, and only 40 percent agree it sounded like "typical locker room talk by men."

Just 30 percent of registered voters say Trump has a “strong moral character,” versus 45 percent for Clinton. Only 34 percent view Trump as honest and trustworthy, down from 42 percent in last month’s survey. And just 34 percent say Trump has the right temperament to be president, while 59 percent say Clinton does.

And, in a finding consistent with most other surveys, just 39 percent of registered voters say Trump is qualified for the Oval Office, version 59 percent who say Clinton is.

Trump’s unfavorable numbers are up among American adults: 66 percent view the New York mogul unfavorably, an increase of 7 points since September’s survey, and 54 percent see him “strongly” unfavorably. But among registered voters, Trump is seen only somewhat more unfavorably than Clinton, 63 percent to her 57 percent.

One-third of registered voters, moreover, say that Trump’s crude boasts about grabbing women’s genitals and kissing them unasked -- as revealed in a leaked video from a taping of “Access Hollywood” -- make them less likely to support him. But those voters, according to pollster Gary Langer, “fit the profile of those who were unlikely to do so in the first place.”

The new ABC/Post poll surveyed 1,152 adults by landline and cell phones from Oct. 10-13. The registered voter sample was 920 people, with a margin of error of plus or minus 3.5 percentage points, and the likely voter sample was 740, with a margin of error of plus or minus 4 points.

Source
© Current year.
CatharsisUT
Profile Joined March 2011
United States487 Posts
October 16 2016 05:38 GMT
#112017
Articles about individual polls (on a commonly-polled issue, at least) are just pointless. RCP average as well as 538 models have moved drastically since then.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46540 Posts
October 16 2016 05:42 GMT
#112018
On October 16 2016 14:38 CatharsisUT wrote:
Articles about individual polls (on a commonly-polled issue, at least) are just pointless. RCP average as well as 538 models have moved drastically since then.


Agreed. 538 has had Hillary's chances at over 80% for over a week now: http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/?ex_cid=rrpromo
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
October 16 2016 05:49 GMT
#112019
On October 16 2016 13:04 LegalLord wrote:
From a news reporting perspective, the Yemen conflict has been remarkably invisible.

What I didn't know about it until recently was how badly the Saudis were losing and how hopeless that war is for them. Two-thirds of Yemen's 400,000-man army have defected to the Houthis. Iran doesn't really have to do squat.
CatharsisUT
Profile Joined March 2011
United States487 Posts
October 16 2016 05:53 GMT
#112020
[image loading]

Seriously, just terrible writing on that article.
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