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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On October 15 2013 06:28 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2013 06:26 TheFish7 wrote:On October 15 2013 06:22 xDaunt wrote:On October 15 2013 06:21 Sermokala wrote:
The real problems are going to come after the first of the year when people assume that they filed out the ACA website forms correctly and have health care when they really don't thus getting hit by the individual mandate tax and not having health insurance.
Not to mention whats going to happen after everyone's premiums triple after companies are forced to take people in with pre existing conditions. This is already happening. I keep hearing this but I have yet to see any real evidence that supports this claim. Have you seen what's happened to insurance premiums?
Have you?
How about looking at an actual study of the matter instead of an article by a conservative contributor to Forbes (and instead of cherry-picking states)?
No Widespread Increase in Cost of Individual Health Insurance Policies Under Affordable Care Act
The federal Affordable Care Act will lead to an increase in health insurance coverage and higher enrollment among people who purchase individual policies, according to a new RAND Corporation study.
While there have been some reports that the cost of individual policies may jump sharply under health reform, a RAND analysis of 10 states and the United States overall predicts that there will be no widespread premium increase in the individual health insurance market.
However, researchers caution that the cost of policies in the individual market will vary between states and will be influenced by individual factors such as an individual's age and whether they smoke, as well as whether they qualify for federal tax credits to help cover the cost.
“Our analysis shows that rates for policies in the individual market are likely to vary from state to state, with some experiencing increases and some experiencing decreases in cost,” said Christine Eibner, the study's lead author and a senior economist at RAND, a nonprofit research organization. “But our analysis found no widespread trend toward sharply higher prices in the individual market.”
Source
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On October 15 2013 07:50 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2013 06:28 xDaunt wrote:On October 15 2013 06:26 TheFish7 wrote:On October 15 2013 06:22 xDaunt wrote:On October 15 2013 06:21 Sermokala wrote:
The real problems are going to come after the first of the year when people assume that they filed out the ACA website forms correctly and have health care when they really don't thus getting hit by the individual mandate tax and not having health insurance.
Not to mention whats going to happen after everyone's premiums triple after companies are forced to take people in with pre existing conditions. This is already happening. I keep hearing this but I have yet to see any real evidence that supports this claim. Have you seen what's happened to insurance premiums? Have you? How about looking at an actual study of the matter instead of an article by a conservative contributor to Forbes (and instead of cherry-picking states)? Show nested quote +No Widespread Increase in Cost of Individual Health Insurance Policies Under Affordable Care Act
The federal Affordable Care Act will lead to an increase in health insurance coverage and higher enrollment among people who purchase individual policies, according to a new RAND Corporation study.
While there have been some reports that the cost of individual policies may jump sharply under health reform, a RAND analysis of 10 states and the United States overall predicts that there will be no widespread premium increase in the individual health insurance market.
However, researchers caution that the cost of policies in the individual market will vary between states and will be influenced by individual factors such as an individual's age and whether they smoke, as well as whether they qualify for federal tax credits to help cover the cost.
“Our analysis shows that rates for policies in the individual market are likely to vary from state to state, with some experiencing increases and some experiencing decreases in cost,” said Christine Eibner, the study's lead author and a senior economist at RAND, a nonprofit research organization. “But our analysis found no widespread trend toward sharply higher prices in the individual market.” Source
More like libertarian contributor, just read on who is behind the Manhattan institute (hint: it's not Dr. Manhattan).
As ludicrous as it sounds, people really have to wait and see how things work out in the end I feel.
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On October 15 2013 07:50 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2013 06:28 xDaunt wrote:On October 15 2013 06:26 TheFish7 wrote:On October 15 2013 06:22 xDaunt wrote:On October 15 2013 06:21 Sermokala wrote:
The real problems are going to come after the first of the year when people assume that they filed out the ACA website forms correctly and have health care when they really don't thus getting hit by the individual mandate tax and not having health insurance.
Not to mention whats going to happen after everyone's premiums triple after companies are forced to take people in with pre existing conditions. This is already happening. I keep hearing this but I have yet to see any real evidence that supports this claim. Have you seen what's happened to insurance premiums? Have you? How about looking at an actual study of the matter instead of an article by a conservative contributor to Forbes (and instead of cherry-picking states)? Show nested quote +No Widespread Increase in Cost of Individual Health Insurance Policies Under Affordable Care Act
The federal Affordable Care Act will lead to an increase in health insurance coverage and higher enrollment among people who purchase individual policies, according to a new RAND Corporation study.
While there have been some reports that the cost of individual policies may jump sharply under health reform, a RAND analysis of 10 states and the United States overall predicts that there will be no widespread premium increase in the individual health insurance market.
However, researchers caution that the cost of policies in the individual market will vary between states and will be influenced by individual factors such as an individual's age and whether they smoke, as well as whether they qualify for federal tax credits to help cover the cost.
“Our analysis shows that rates for policies in the individual market are likely to vary from state to state, with some experiencing increases and some experiencing decreases in cost,” said Christine Eibner, the study's lead author and a senior economist at RAND, a nonprofit research organization. “But our analysis found no widespread trend toward sharply higher prices in the individual market.” Source
So, basically,
So the evil, conservative writer for forbes Manhattan Institute for Policy Research says they're going to go up, huh? Well the Rand Corporation says they're going to stay the same! My analyst cherry picks states without cherry picking states, and your analyst just cherry picks states.
Ease up on the bloviating, one study had 13 states the other 10.
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The National Security Agency is harvesting hundreds of millions of contact lists from personal e-mail and instant messaging accounts around the world, many of them belonging to Americans, according to senior intelligence officials and top secret documents provided by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden.
The collection program, which has not been disclosed before, intercepts e-mail address books and “buddy lists” from instant messaging services as they move across global data links. Online services often transmit those contacts when a user logs on, composes a message, or synchronizes a computer or mobile device with information stored on remote servers.
During a single day last year, the NSA’s Special Source Operations branch collected 444,743 e-mail address books from Yahoo, 105,068 from Hotmail, 82,857 from Facebook, 33,697 from Gmail and 22,881 from unspecified other providers, according to an internal NSA PowerPoint presentation. Those figures, described as a typical daily intake in the document, correspond to a rate of more than 250 million per year.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-collects-millions-of-e-mail-address-books-globally/2013/10/14/8e58b5be-34f9-11e3-80c6-7e6dd8d22d8f_story.html
Anything digital left the NSA is not collecting?
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On October 15 2013 08:04 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2013 07:50 kwizach wrote:On October 15 2013 06:28 xDaunt wrote:On October 15 2013 06:26 TheFish7 wrote:On October 15 2013 06:22 xDaunt wrote:On October 15 2013 06:21 Sermokala wrote:
The real problems are going to come after the first of the year when people assume that they filed out the ACA website forms correctly and have health care when they really don't thus getting hit by the individual mandate tax and not having health insurance.
Not to mention whats going to happen after everyone's premiums triple after companies are forced to take people in with pre existing conditions. This is already happening. I keep hearing this but I have yet to see any real evidence that supports this claim. Have you seen what's happened to insurance premiums? Have you? How about looking at an actual study of the matter instead of an article by a conservative contributor to Forbes (and instead of cherry-picking states)? No Widespread Increase in Cost of Individual Health Insurance Policies Under Affordable Care Act
The federal Affordable Care Act will lead to an increase in health insurance coverage and higher enrollment among people who purchase individual policies, according to a new RAND Corporation study.
While there have been some reports that the cost of individual policies may jump sharply under health reform, a RAND analysis of 10 states and the United States overall predicts that there will be no widespread premium increase in the individual health insurance market.
However, researchers caution that the cost of policies in the individual market will vary between states and will be influenced by individual factors such as an individual's age and whether they smoke, as well as whether they qualify for federal tax credits to help cover the cost.
“Our analysis shows that rates for policies in the individual market are likely to vary from state to state, with some experiencing increases and some experiencing decreases in cost,” said Christine Eibner, the study's lead author and a senior economist at RAND, a nonprofit research organization. “But our analysis found no widespread trend toward sharply higher prices in the individual market.” Source So, basically, Show nested quote +So the evil, conservative writer for forbes Manhattan Institute for Policy Research says they're going to go up, huh? Well the Rand Corporation says they're going to stay the same! My analyst cherry picks states without cherry picking states, and your analyst just cherry picks states. Ease up on the bloviating, one study had 13 states the other 10.
Did you even look at the two sources? One (mine) is an actual study and one is an article accompanying an "interactive map". Here's the link to the RAND study.
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Nobody can argue that the Tea Party is not racist and is just concerned about fiscal and other policy points. They might as well have burned a cross today.
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On October 15 2013 08:23 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Nobody can argue that the Tea Party is not racist and is just concerned about fiscal and other policy points. They might as well have burned a cross today.
Ummm, context?
In general, I'm not a huge fan of the "Tea Part are racists" argument. There are so many great reasons why the Tea Party is full of shit, why rely on the one that is the most tenuous?
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On October 15 2013 08:34 packrat386 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2013 08:23 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Nobody can argue that the Tea Party is not racist and is just concerned about fiscal and other policy points. They might as well have burned a cross today. Ummm, context? In general, I'm not a huge fan of the "Tea Part are racists" argument. There are so many great reasons why the Tea Party is full of shit, why rely on the one that is the most tenuous?
Intellectual laziness.
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To be fair him being black and having muslim connections has something to do with it. Change is scary to a lot of people and obama did grow up in a poor muslim ghetto.
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On October 15 2013 08:51 Sermokala wrote:
To be fair him being black and having muslim connections has something to do with it. Change is scary to a lot of people and obama did grow up in a poor muslim ghetto.
I get the feeling that you are not helping your point... and that's quite telling itself really.
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On October 15 2013 08:12 Derez wrote:Show nested quote +The National Security Agency is harvesting hundreds of millions of contact lists from personal e-mail and instant messaging accounts around the world, many of them belonging to Americans, according to senior intelligence officials and top secret documents provided by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden.
The collection program, which has not been disclosed before, intercepts e-mail address books and “buddy lists” from instant messaging services as they move across global data links. Online services often transmit those contacts when a user logs on, composes a message, or synchronizes a computer or mobile device with information stored on remote servers. Show nested quote +During a single day last year, the NSA’s Special Source Operations branch collected 444,743 e-mail address books from Yahoo, 105,068 from Hotmail, 82,857 from Facebook, 33,697 from Gmail and 22,881 from unspecified other providers, according to an internal NSA PowerPoint presentation. Those figures, described as a typical daily intake in the document, correspond to a rate of more than 250 million per year. http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-collects-millions-of-e-mail-address-books-globally/2013/10/14/8e58b5be-34f9-11e3-80c6-7e6dd8d22d8f_story.htmlAnything digital left the NSA is not collecting?
But it's only used to catch terrorists so there's no reason to worry.
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On October 15 2013 08:51 Sermokala wrote:
To be fair him being black and having muslim connections has something to do with it. Change is scary to a lot of people and obama did grow up in a poor muslim ghetto.
....Muslim connections?
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On October 15 2013 08:58 Doublemint wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2013 08:51 Sermokala wrote:
To be fair him being black and having muslim connections has something to do with it. Change is scary to a lot of people and obama did grow up in a poor muslim ghetto. I get the feeling that you are not helping your point... and that's quite telling itself really.
I'm not trying to help any point. I don't like the tea party like the rest of people but for different reasons.
On October 15 2013 09:08 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2013 08:51 Sermokala wrote:
To be fair him being black and having muslim connections has something to do with it. Change is scary to a lot of people and obama did grow up in a poor muslim ghetto. ....Muslim connections?
His dads from kenya and he grew up in indonesia (after being born in hawaii). Those are muslim connections.
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Wow, Sermokala. I used to think you were conservative, but that was so on-point I think you must be a deep-cover liberal.
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On October 15 2013 09:22 DoubleReed wrote:
Wow, Sermokala. I used to think you were conservative, but that was so on-point I think you must be a deep-cover liberal.
Not being a raving lunatic with reasonable points has that effect.
I'm a pragmatic person with unreasonable points.
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On October 15 2013 09:24 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2013 09:22 DoubleReed wrote:
Wow, Sermokala. I used to think you were conservative, but that was so on-point I think you must be a deep-cover liberal. Not being a raving lunatic with reasonable points has that effect. I'm a pragmatic person with unreasonable points.
Whoosh.
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United States43557 Posts
On October 15 2013 09:21 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2013 08:58 Doublemint wrote:On October 15 2013 08:51 Sermokala wrote:
To be fair him being black and having muslim connections has something to do with it. Change is scary to a lot of people and obama did grow up in a poor muslim ghetto. I get the feeling that you are not helping your point... and that's quite telling itself really. I'm not trying to help any point. I don't like the tea party like the rest of people but for different reasons. Show nested quote +On October 15 2013 09:08 Sub40APM wrote:On October 15 2013 08:51 Sermokala wrote:
To be fair him being black and having muslim connections has something to do with it. Change is scary to a lot of people and obama did grow up in a poor muslim ghetto. ....Muslim connections? His dads from kenya and he grew up in indonesia (after being born in hawaii). Those are muslim connections.
This isn't how logic works.
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On October 15 2013 08:13 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2013 08:04 Danglars wrote:On October 15 2013 07:50 kwizach wrote:On October 15 2013 06:28 xDaunt wrote:On October 15 2013 06:26 TheFish7 wrote:On October 15 2013 06:22 xDaunt wrote:On October 15 2013 06:21 Sermokala wrote:
The real problems are going to come after the first of the year when people assume that they filed out the ACA website forms correctly and have health care when they really don't thus getting hit by the individual mandate tax and not having health insurance.
Not to mention whats going to happen after everyone's premiums triple after companies are forced to take people in with pre existing conditions. This is already happening. I keep hearing this but I have yet to see any real evidence that supports this claim. Have you seen what's happened to insurance premiums? Have you? How about looking at an actual study of the matter instead of an article by a conservative contributor to Forbes (and instead of cherry-picking states)? No Widespread Increase in Cost of Individual Health Insurance Policies Under Affordable Care Act
The federal Affordable Care Act will lead to an increase in health insurance coverage and higher enrollment among people who purchase individual policies, according to a new RAND Corporation study.
While there have been some reports that the cost of individual policies may jump sharply under health reform, a RAND analysis of 10 states and the United States overall predicts that there will be no widespread premium increase in the individual health insurance market.
However, researchers caution that the cost of policies in the individual market will vary between states and will be influenced by individual factors such as an individual's age and whether they smoke, as well as whether they qualify for federal tax credits to help cover the cost.
“Our analysis shows that rates for policies in the individual market are likely to vary from state to state, with some experiencing increases and some experiencing decreases in cost,” said Christine Eibner, the study's lead author and a senior economist at RAND, a nonprofit research organization. “But our analysis found no widespread trend toward sharply higher prices in the individual market.” Source So, basically, So the evil, conservative writer for forbes Manhattan Institute for Policy Research says they're going to go up, huh? Well the Rand Corporation says they're going to stay the same! My analyst cherry picks states without cherry picking states, and your analyst just cherry picks states. Ease up on the bloviating, one study had 13 states the other 10. Did you even look at the two sources? One (mine) is an actual study and one is an article accompanying an "interactive map". Here's the link to the RAND study.
Yes, I saw the study. Let me repeat,
So the evil, conservative writer for forbes Manhattan Institute for Policy Research says they're going to go up, huh? Well the Rand Corporation says they're going to stay the same! My analyst cherry picks states without cherry picking states, and your analyst just cherry picks states.
Maybe you should consider looking at the source of articles and not assuming that it was researched and published in-house. You might learn something.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/img/charles/2013/10/13/ZZ73C19A86.jpg)
