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On October 15 2013 04:57 xDaunt wrote:
With all of the problems that Obamacare is having getting off the ground, I'm kinda surprised that no republican group has filed a lawsuit to seek an injunction against enforcement of the individual mandate, thereby getting a delay of the individual mandate judicially. I'm no expert in the field, but I find it hard to believe that a law can be enforced where it is impossible for individuals to comply with its terms due to the government's own failures.
I would be surprised too, but it's quite possible that dozens have groups have filed such suits and none of them have gone anywhere. If everything were still fucked up in five months from now (which seems fairly unlikely), Obama would probably just unilaterally put off the mandate using whatever extrajudicial voodoo he used to put off the employer mandate.
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On October 15 2013 04:57 xDaunt wrote:
With all of the problems that Obamacare is having getting off the ground, I'm kinda surprised that no republican group has filed a lawsuit to seek an injunction against enforcement of the individual mandate, thereby getting a delay of the individual mandate judicially. I'm no expert in the field, but I find it hard to believe that a law can be enforced where it is impossible for individuals to comply with its terms due to the government's own failures.
Because there is still quite a bit of time for the government to fix it before the enrollment periods end. If it's still messed up as the deadline nears, then these groups are perfectly within their rights for a temporary injunction until it is fixed.
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On October 15 2013 04:57 xDaunt wrote:
With all of the problems that Obamacare is having getting off the ground, I'm kinda surprised that no republican group has filed a lawsuit to seek an injunction against enforcement of the individual mandate, thereby getting a delay of the individual mandate judicially. I'm no expert in the field, but I find it hard to believe that a law can be enforced where it is impossible for individuals to comply with its terms due to the government's own failures.
To quote Ezra Klein,
One thing has gone abundantly right for the Affordable Care Act: The Republican Party. Their decision to shut down the government on the exact day the health-care law launched was a miracle for the White House. If Republicans had simply passed a clean-CR on Oct. 1 these last few weeks would've been nothing -- nothing at all -- save for coverage of the health-care law's disaster. Instead the law has been knocked off the front page by coverage of the Republican Party's disaster.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/10/14/five-thoughts-on-the-obamacare-disaster/
The Tea Party, in its fear that another layer of government giveaways will permanently cement a Democratic majority in the Senate and the White House once again shot themselves in the foot.
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
Perhaps it has something to do with federal courts being affected by the shutdown. 
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The courts are still open.
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On October 15 2013 05:10 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2013 04:57 xDaunt wrote:
With all of the problems that Obamacare is having getting off the ground, I'm kinda surprised that no republican group has filed a lawsuit to seek an injunction against enforcement of the individual mandate, thereby getting a delay of the individual mandate judicially. I'm no expert in the field, but I find it hard to believe that a law can be enforced where it is impossible for individuals to comply with its terms due to the government's own failures. To quote Ezra Klein, Show nested quote +One thing has gone abundantly right for the Affordable Care Act: The Republican Party. Their decision to shut down the government on the exact day the health-care law launched was a miracle for the White House. If Republicans had simply passed a clean-CR on Oct. 1 these last few weeks would've been nothing -- nothing at all -- save for coverage of the health-care law's disaster. Instead the law has been knocked off the front page by coverage of the Republican Party's disaster. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/10/14/five-thoughts-on-the-obamacare-disaster/The Tea Party, in its fear that another layer of government giveaways will permanently cement a Democratic majority in the Senate and the White House once again shot themselves in the foot.
That's actually a really good point I read and heard quite a couple of times. Were it not for the gridlock/"hostage taking" situation the Republicans most probably just would have to lean back and let the chaos with Obamacare unfold and in the process gain the publics support easily.
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On October 15 2013 05:32 Doublemint wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2013 05:10 Sub40APM wrote:On October 15 2013 04:57 xDaunt wrote:
With all of the problems that Obamacare is having getting off the ground, I'm kinda surprised that no republican group has filed a lawsuit to seek an injunction against enforcement of the individual mandate, thereby getting a delay of the individual mandate judicially. I'm no expert in the field, but I find it hard to believe that a law can be enforced where it is impossible for individuals to comply with its terms due to the government's own failures. To quote Ezra Klein, One thing has gone abundantly right for the Affordable Care Act: The Republican Party. Their decision to shut down the government on the exact day the health-care law launched was a miracle for the White House. If Republicans had simply passed a clean-CR on Oct. 1 these last few weeks would've been nothing -- nothing at all -- save for coverage of the health-care law's disaster. Instead the law has been knocked off the front page by coverage of the Republican Party's disaster. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/10/14/five-thoughts-on-the-obamacare-disaster/The Tea Party, in its fear that another layer of government giveaways will permanently cement a Democratic majority in the Senate and the White House once again shot themselves in the foot. That's actually a really good point I read and heard quite a couple of times. Were it not for the gridlock/"hostage taking" situation the Republicans most probably just would have to lean back and let the chaos with Obamacare unfold and in the process gain the publics support easily.
Obama and the Republicans in congress. Wow. The last few years have been so idiotic and incompetent on both sides. It's too bad they can't both lose.
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On October 15 2013 04:57 xDaunt wrote:
With all of the problems that Obamacare is having getting off the ground, I'm kinda surprised that no republican group has filed a lawsuit to seek an injunction against enforcement of the individual mandate, thereby getting a delay of the individual mandate judicially. I'm no expert in the field, but I find it hard to believe that a law can be enforced where it is impossible for individuals to comply with its terms due to the government's own failures.
Given the politically contentious nature of it, and courts' tendency to avoid making hard decisions by using technicalities, I wouldn't be at all surprised for courts to rule there's no standing to sue until someone's actually been fined.
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On October 15 2013 05:32 Doublemint wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2013 05:10 Sub40APM wrote:On October 15 2013 04:57 xDaunt wrote:
With all of the problems that Obamacare is having getting off the ground, I'm kinda surprised that no republican group has filed a lawsuit to seek an injunction against enforcement of the individual mandate, thereby getting a delay of the individual mandate judicially. I'm no expert in the field, but I find it hard to believe that a law can be enforced where it is impossible for individuals to comply with its terms due to the government's own failures. To quote Ezra Klein, One thing has gone abundantly right for the Affordable Care Act: The Republican Party. Their decision to shut down the government on the exact day the health-care law launched was a miracle for the White House. If Republicans had simply passed a clean-CR on Oct. 1 these last few weeks would've been nothing -- nothing at all -- save for coverage of the health-care law's disaster. Instead the law has been knocked off the front page by coverage of the Republican Party's disaster. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/10/14/five-thoughts-on-the-obamacare-disaster/The Tea Party, in its fear that another layer of government giveaways will permanently cement a Democratic majority in the Senate and the White House once again shot themselves in the foot. That's actually a really good point I read and heard quite a couple of times. Were it not for the gridlock/"hostage taking" situation the Republicans most probably just would have to lean back and let the chaos with Obamacare unfold and in the process gain the publics support easily.
Looking at it a different way, the problems with Obamacare arguably are legitimizing the Republican's arguments for using the shutdown to delay the mandate. (not that I am sure that I agree with this).
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I thought the "standing" bullshit was really just for the supreme court.
But I'm sure there are plenty of lawsuits. I know there are plenty of lawsuits against the contraceptive coverage of Obamacare because the ACLU has been tracking that. I think they're up to 70 or something nonsensical "religious freedom" cases or something.
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On October 15 2013 05:48 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2013 04:57 xDaunt wrote:
With all of the problems that Obamacare is having getting off the ground, I'm kinda surprised that no republican group has filed a lawsuit to seek an injunction against enforcement of the individual mandate, thereby getting a delay of the individual mandate judicially. I'm no expert in the field, but I find it hard to believe that a law can be enforced where it is impossible for individuals to comply with its terms due to the government's own failures. Given the politically contentious nature of it, and courts' tendency to avoid making hard decisions by using technicalities, I wouldn't be at all surprised for courts to rule there's no standing to sue until someone's actually been fined.
Yeah, that may be right. I don't remember precisely when standing vests in terms of the harm occurring.
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On October 15 2013 05:52 DoubleReed wrote:
I thought the "standing" bullshit was really just for the supreme court.
But I'm sure there are plenty of lawsuits. I know there are plenty of lawsuits against the contraceptive coverage of Obamacare because the ACLU has been tracking that. I think they're up to 70 or something nonsensical "religious freedom" cases or something.
Standing matters for any lawsuit, and is a prerequisite to bringing any claim.
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Wasn't the supreme court case about the ACA recently indeed about the individual mandate, with Roberts justifying it as a tax?
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On October 15 2013 06:00 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2013 05:52 DoubleReed wrote:
I thought the "standing" bullshit was really just for the supreme court.
But I'm sure there are plenty of lawsuits. I know there are plenty of lawsuits against the contraceptive coverage of Obamacare because the ACLU has been tracking that. I think they're up to 70 or something nonsensical "religious freedom" cases or something. Standing matters for any lawsuit, and is a prerequisite to bringing any claim.
In that case I wouldn't be surprised if such suits were thrown out for lack of standing.
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
On October 15 2013 05:15 xDaunt wrote:
The courts are still open.
"open" and "functioning at sufficient capacity" are two different things.
It was more of a tongue-in-cheek remark anyway. I dunno what goes on in the minds of conservatives.
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On October 15 2013 05:51 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2013 05:32 Doublemint wrote:On October 15 2013 05:10 Sub40APM wrote:On October 15 2013 04:57 xDaunt wrote:
With all of the problems that Obamacare is having getting off the ground, I'm kinda surprised that no republican group has filed a lawsuit to seek an injunction against enforcement of the individual mandate, thereby getting a delay of the individual mandate judicially. I'm no expert in the field, but I find it hard to believe that a law can be enforced where it is impossible for individuals to comply with its terms due to the government's own failures. To quote Ezra Klein, One thing has gone abundantly right for the Affordable Care Act: The Republican Party. Their decision to shut down the government on the exact day the health-care law launched was a miracle for the White House. If Republicans had simply passed a clean-CR on Oct. 1 these last few weeks would've been nothing -- nothing at all -- save for coverage of the health-care law's disaster. Instead the law has been knocked off the front page by coverage of the Republican Party's disaster. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/10/14/five-thoughts-on-the-obamacare-disaster/The Tea Party, in its fear that another layer of government giveaways will permanently cement a Democratic majority in the Senate and the White House once again shot themselves in the foot. That's actually a really good point I read and heard quite a couple of times. Were it not for the gridlock/"hostage taking" situation the Republicans most probably just would have to lean back and let the chaos with Obamacare unfold and in the process gain the publics support easily. Looking at it a different way, the problems with Obamacare arguably are legitimizing the Republican's arguments for using the shutdown to delay the mandate. (not that I am sure that I agree with this).
Kind of in a very fucked up way, yet it still seems like the much less preferable option for the Republicans. Well, we will see soon enough who comes up ahead and who loses in the process (the American people/the rest of the world economy?...)
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The real problems are going to come after the first of the year when people assume that they filed out the ACA website forms correctly and have health care when they really don't thus getting hit by the individual mandate tax and not having health insurance.
Not to mention whats going to happen after everyone's premiums triple after companies are forced to take people in with pre existing conditions.
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On October 15 2013 06:21 Sermokala wrote:
The real problems are going to come after the first of the year when people assume that they filed out the ACA website forms correctly and have health care when they really don't thus getting hit by the individual mandate tax and not having health insurance.
Not to mention whats going to happen after everyone's premiums triple after companies are forced to take people in with pre existing conditions.
This is already happening.
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On October 15 2013 06:22 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2013 06:21 Sermokala wrote:
The real problems are going to come after the first of the year when people assume that they filed out the ACA website forms correctly and have health care when they really don't thus getting hit by the individual mandate tax and not having health insurance.
Not to mention whats going to happen after everyone's premiums triple after companies are forced to take people in with pre existing conditions. This is already happening.
I keep hearing this but I have yet to see any real evidence that supports this claim.
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On October 15 2013 06:26 TheFish7 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2013 06:22 xDaunt wrote:On October 15 2013 06:21 Sermokala wrote:
The real problems are going to come after the first of the year when people assume that they filed out the ACA website forms correctly and have health care when they really don't thus getting hit by the individual mandate tax and not having health insurance.
Not to mention whats going to happen after everyone's premiums triple after companies are forced to take people in with pre existing conditions. This is already happening. I keep hearing this but I have yet to see any real evidence that supports this claim.
Have you seen what's happened to insurance premiums?
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