US Politics Mega-thread - Page 4918
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15686 Posts
On September 08 2016 01:50 xDaunt wrote: Ok, let's try again: Everyone agrees that Trump's Mexico trip has been a huge political success for Trump? The way I see it is: Trump and nieto say they had a good talk on TV. Trump says Mexico will pay for the wall. Nieto says they won't pay for the wall. What is really gained here? If anything, it looks like they just talked past each other and then shook hands. I don't see what he gained. | ||
Gorsameth
Netherlands21667 Posts
On September 08 2016 01:57 xDaunt wrote: Serves me right for giving any of y'all the benefit of the doubt. What did you expect? 2 grown men held a decent press conference and then as soon as they shook hands and departed began to throw mud at one-another. How is that a successful foreign visit from a prospective President? I ask again, what did you think makes it successful? | ||
zlefin
United States7689 Posts
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On September 08 2016 01:59 Gorsameth wrote: What did you expect? 2 grown men held a decent press conference and then as soon as they shook hands and departed began to throw mud at one-another. How is that a successful foreign visit from a prospective President? I ask again, what did you think makes it successful? You lost the benefit of the doubt. Its to late too explain it to you now. Obviously. | ||
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 08 2016 01:56 Nevuk wrote: BTW arguing about definitions is pretty much capitulation in an online argument. (According to a source p6 loves, Scott Adams) Yeah, well I would expect that from a scrub like Adams. Consensus about terms and definitions is the cornerstone of academic discussion and allows for deeper understanding and communication. Asking someone to better define a subjective term expected in any discussion academia. Of course some keyboard warriors like Adams hate it because it locks them in by forcing them to refine their points and prevents them from back tracking. | ||
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KwarK
United States42653 Posts
On September 08 2016 01:59 Mohdoo wrote: The way I see it is: Trump and nieto say they had a good talk on TV. Trump says Mexico will pay for the wall. Nieto says they won't pay for the wall. What is really gained here? If anything, it looks like they just talked past each other and then shook hands. I don't see what he gained. Nieto got to use Trump as a prop while looking strong to his people and refusing to pay for the wall. It's one thing to say "it's not going to happen" in a general sense, it's quite another to invite the guy over then walk out of the meeting saying "it's not going to happen". Trump's presence and subsequent rejection made Nieto look better. It'll also make it harder for Mexico to back down should Trump win, by publicly disavowing the wall like that it burns the potential bridge to retreat over. Trump let himself get humiliated as a prop to strengthen Nieto but at least it also undermined any hope of pushing his policies. | ||
xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
EDIT: well, I guess it is unclear whether the finance minister resigned because of the Trump visit, but the article does make it clear that Mexicans see Nieto as a tool. | ||
zlefin
United States7689 Posts
So I find you're not arguing in good faith. | ||
LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
Adams is in general a weird armchair philosopher with bizarre and unfeasible ideas. He should stick to Dilbert. | ||
Gorsameth
Netherlands21667 Posts
On September 08 2016 02:07 xDaunt wrote: Here's the unambiguously correct answer to my question: Trump's Mexico visit was a huge political success for him, which should be blindingly obvious to everyone given 1) his subsequent and continued improvement in the polls, and 2) Mexicans understand the event gave Trump a huge boost, resulting in Nieto being universally panned (and now his finance minister resigning). classic case of 'the street is wet, therefor it must be raining' | ||
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
Mexicans pan Nieto for giving Trump even a chance at a boost or an appearance of legitimacy w/r/t diplomacy with Mexico. That doesn't reach the level of "Mexicans are correct that Trump got a boost and possesses credibility in diplomacy". | ||
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 08 2016 02:10 Doodsmack wrote: Trump's poll improvement also correlates with Clinton Foundation email releases and his messaging discipline. Mexicans pan Nieto for giving Trump even a chance at a boost or an appearance of legitimacy w/r/t diplomacy with Mexico. I feel the race is going to tighten right up until the debates. But maybe Clinton will hold at 4 points. | ||
Mohdoo
United States15686 Posts
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
Hopefully Clinton's total ad war will counteract it. Clinton gets the commercials, Trump gets the on-air time. | ||
Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On September 08 2016 01:43 farvacola wrote: Given that my definition of "success" doesn't include torpedoing the political careers of leaders of neighboring countries, nope. Wasn't it sort of a desperate attempt by Nieto anyways - his approval ratings were like 27% or something, absurdly low. Basically his career was already basically over even without Trump's help | ||
xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On September 08 2016 02:13 Mohdoo wrote: ...why is it good for Trump for nieto to get in trouble for meeting with trump? It's not the fact that Nieto is in trouble that benefits Trump. What matters is why Nieto is in trouble. He's in trouble because he has single-handedly given Trump an image of legitimacy, credibility, and seriousness as a potential head of state. As far as Mexicans are concerned, Nieto has laid down the first brick in Trump's wall. | ||
Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On September 08 2016 02:18 xDaunt wrote: he has single-handedly given Trump an image of legitimacy, credibility, and seriousness as a potential head of state. Your argument assumes its conclusion. The Mexican people are not necessarily correct that Trump was given those things. | ||
farvacola
United States18825 Posts
On September 08 2016 02:16 Nevuk wrote: Wasn't it sort of a desperate attempt by Nieto anyways - his approval ratings were like 27% or something, absurdly low. Basically his career was already basically over even without Trump's help Trump controversy aside, it is not easy to be a politician in Mexico. That much is clear, particularly with regards to Nieto. | ||
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