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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 491

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
October 01 2013 04:29 GMT
#9801
Healthcare.gov help chat is swamped. Can't finish register.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
MarlieChurphy
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
United States2063 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-01 04:30:57
October 01 2013 04:30 GMT
#9802
Sorry, Can someone enlighten me on what exactly the Affordable Care Act is, and what it's supposed to do (and/or what it is actually doing?)

I actually got a phone survey call a few months back asking me tons of questions about it and I basically just answered I don't know/I don't care to most of the stuff. It seems pretty convoluted at the least.
RIP SPOR 11/24/11 NEVAR FORGET
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4748 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-01 04:39:05
October 01 2013 04:32 GMT
#9803
On October 01 2013 13:30 MarlieChurphy wrote:
Sorry, Can someone enlighten me on what exactly the Affordable Care Act is, and what it's supposed to do (and/or what it is actually doing?)

I actually got a phone survey call a few months back asking me tons of questions about it and I basically just answered I don't know/I don't care to most of the stuff. It seems pretty convoluted at the least.


This isn't the place to ask, between the liberal bent of TL and the Europeans all congratulating us on a bill they don't know anything about, either. I don't know where you are even supposed to start at this point. Just know that wherever you go, it is going to be biased, one way or another. You have a long night ahead of you.

edit: Wikipedia is ok for overview, but this law is VERY far reaching and you won't find all the info (especially info that is more critical of the law) on that page. It has 80+ references to the liberal "The New Republic" on that page, for example.
"It is therefore only at the birth of a society that one can be completely logical in the laws. When you see a people enjoying this advantage, do not hasten to conclude that it is wise; think rather that it is young." -Alexis de Tocqueville
paralleluniverse
Profile Joined July 2010
4065 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-01 04:33:24
October 01 2013 04:32 GMT
#9804
On October 01 2013 13:27 Souma wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 01 2013 13:21 paralleluniverse wrote:
There's bigger news than the government shutdown.

Obamacare is live!

Welcome to the rest of the advance world and enjoy your universal healthcare.


It's not universal healthcare. 30 million people still without health insurance. We are far, far from the ideal.

Yeah, well it's still a major step forward. A "big fucking deal" as Biden said. People can as of right now, buy health insurance on the exchanges (http://www.healthcare.gov), possibly with subsidies depending on your situation.
packrat386
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States5077 Posts
October 01 2013 04:33 GMT
#9805
On October 01 2013 13:30 MarlieChurphy wrote:
Sorry, Can someone enlighten me on what exactly the Affordable Care Act is, and what it's supposed to do (and/or what it is actually doing?)

I actually got a phone survey call a few months back asking me tons of questions about it and I basically just answered I don't know/I don't care to most of the stuff. It seems pretty convoluted at the least.

I would suggest wikipedia. Its pretty decent.
dreaming of a sunny day
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
October 01 2013 04:34 GMT
#9806
Or just go to http://www.healthcare.gov and click on the Learn More button...
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
packrat386
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States5077 Posts
October 01 2013 04:34 GMT
#9807
kinda funny that the GOp are touting that fact that obamacare is closed because of the govt shutdown that they're continuing...
dreaming of a sunny day
paralleluniverse
Profile Joined July 2010
4065 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-01 04:42:38
October 01 2013 04:36 GMT
#9808
On October 01 2013 13:30 MarlieChurphy wrote:
Sorry, Can someone enlighten me on what exactly the Affordable Care Act is, and what it's supposed to do (and/or what it is actually doing?)

I actually got a phone survey call a few months back asking me tons of questions about it and I basically just answered I don't know/I don't care to most of the stuff. It seems pretty convoluted at the least.

3 basic parts:
-No one can be denied healthcare or charged more due to preexisting conditions, lifetime caps, etc, and all healthcare plans have at least a minimum standard of benefits
-Everyone must get healthcare or be fined. Nothing changes if you already have healthcare.
-There are subsidies to buy healthcare on exchanges here for low income families that can't afford it. Some plans are as cheap as $100 a month.
SnipedSoul
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada2158 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-01 04:39:02
October 01 2013 04:37 GMT
#9809
You forgot the most important point of all. It's going to DESTROY AMERICA!!!!

Can't believe this is actually happening.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but funding for the ACA is mandatory spending, so it's not affected by a government shutdown.
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
October 01 2013 04:39 GMT
#9810
On October 01 2013 13:26 acker wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 01 2013 13:26 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
They're writing broadly for the general public.

Creditor usually means debt holder.

Do you have a source that contradicts the Treasury? It seems pretty clear that the ability to spend money is not at all the same thing as the ability to honor repayments.

The treasury borrows cash to meet the government's cash commitments. Some of those commitments are creditor claims (interest payments and more broadly entitlement claims). Other commitments are 'essential' government services. Other claims are non-essential services.

When we talk about 'default' we mean one specific thing - not making interest / principal payments on bonds. That's a very small portion of spending that can be prioritized. Hence, we'll have a government shutdown where non-essential spending will stop in order to preserve cash for higher priority items.
packrat386
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States5077 Posts
October 01 2013 04:42 GMT
#9811
this speech by Larson is so fucking ridiculous. Why can't people be reasonable here?
dreaming of a sunny day
acker
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2958 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-01 04:46:20
October 01 2013 04:45 GMT
#9812
On October 01 2013 13:28 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 01 2013 13:24 acker wrote:
On October 01 2013 13:20 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
On October 01 2013 13:15 acker wrote:
On October 01 2013 13:13 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
I mean really, what the hell are you talking about? Some crazy broad definition of creditor?

My definition of creditor is the same as yours. What on earth are you talking about?

Paying creditors is a small portion of Federal spending.

[image loading]


^ I think the treasury can cover that tyvm.


Your definition of realistic isn't the same as mine. Unless you think we can cut government spending by roughly 20% in seventeen days?

We need to cut by 20%? Source?

My apologies. 40%, not 20%.

Source

And that's if we only consider those people to be creditors as opposed to, say, everybody the US government owes money to.

Source
SnipedSoul
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada2158 Posts
October 01 2013 04:46 GMT
#9813
On October 01 2013 13:39 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 01 2013 13:26 acker wrote:
On October 01 2013 13:26 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
They're writing broadly for the general public.

Creditor usually means debt holder.

Do you have a source that contradicts the Treasury? It seems pretty clear that the ability to spend money is not at all the same thing as the ability to honor repayments.

The treasury borrows cash to meet the government's cash commitments. Some of those commitments are creditor claims (interest payments and more broadly entitlement claims). Other commitments are 'essential' government services. Other claims are non-essential services.

When we talk about 'default' we mean one specific thing - not making interest / principal payments on bonds. That's a very small portion of spending that can be prioritized. Hence, we'll have a government shutdown where non-essential spending will stop in order to preserve cash for higher priority items.


Just curious, does anyone have any idea how much cash the treasury has on hand?
acker
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2958 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-01 04:52:27
October 01 2013 04:48 GMT
#9814
On October 01 2013 13:39 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 01 2013 13:26 acker wrote:
On October 01 2013 13:26 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
They're writing broadly for the general public.

Creditor usually means debt holder.

Do you have a source that contradicts the Treasury? It seems pretty clear that the ability to spend money is not at all the same thing as the ability to honor repayments.

The treasury borrows cash to meet the government's cash commitments. Some of those commitments are creditor claims (interest payments and more broadly entitlement claims). Other commitments are 'essential' government services. Other claims are non-essential services.

When we talk about 'default' we mean one specific thing - not making interest / principal payments on bonds. That's a very small portion of spending that can be prioritized. Hence, we'll have a government shutdown where non-essential spending will stop in order to preserve cash for higher priority items.

You must have misunderstood me. I asked for a source that contradicts the Treasury's statement, not a couple of sentences by an anonymous TL poster. Unless you happen to be the personal embodiment of the Treasury.

That's not the definition of default, either. Defaults happen when you can't pay for your obligated expenditures.
packrat386
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States5077 Posts
October 01 2013 04:49 GMT
#9815
So what exactly is being voted on atm?
dreaming of a sunny day
Islandsnake
Profile Joined April 2009
United States679 Posts
October 01 2013 04:49 GMT
#9816
So who continues to get paid now? Just the military?
Bang!
packrat386
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States5077 Posts
October 01 2013 04:52 GMT
#9817
On October 01 2013 13:49 Islandsnake wrote:
So who continues to get paid now? Just the military?

Vital personnel basically.
dreaming of a sunny day
SnipedSoul
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada2158 Posts
October 01 2013 04:52 GMT
#9818
I believe the NSA's monitoring of this thread is considered vital.
acker
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2958 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-01 04:56:58
October 01 2013 04:53 GMT
#9819
On October 01 2013 13:49 Islandsnake wrote:
So who continues to get paid now? Just the military?

Nobody but the Congressional staff people and a couple small areas gets paid.

Pay to the military and other vital services gets deferred until the mess is fixed. Vital services still have to do unpaid work.
acker
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2958 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-01 04:56:42
October 01 2013 04:54 GMT
#9820
On October 01 2013 13:32 Introvert wrote:
This isn't the place to ask, between the liberal bent of TL and the Europeans all congratulating us on a bill they don't know anything about, either. I don't know where you are even supposed to start at this point. Just know that wherever you go, it is going to be biased, one way or another. You have a long night ahead of you.

edit: Wikipedia is ok for overview, but this law is VERY far reaching and you won't find all the info (especially info that is more critical of the law) on that page. It has 80+ references to the liberal "The New Republic" on that page, for example.

Jonathan Gruber wrote a pretty good comic book on the law. I suggest looking it up.

If my suspicions are correct, you know even less about the law than even the average liberal TLer.
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