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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 4850

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
August 30 2016 15:10 GMT
#96981
Mad World News lead headline:

Internationally Renowned Psychic Predicts Next President & Gives Dire Warning
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
August 30 2016 15:10 GMT
#96982
On August 30 2016 13:33 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2016 12:58 IgnE wrote:
On August 30 2016 12:46 Danglars wrote:
PHOENIX — After 30 years in the Senate, during which he transformed himself from war hero into political icon, John McCain now finds himself in more jeopardy than at any time during his political career. And for much of that, he can blame Donald Trump.

This reelection campaign, his fifth, is forcing the Arizona Republican to do battle on multiple fronts, testing his political dexterity in ways unlike any of his previous races, including two unsuccessful bids for the presidency.

First he must clear his primary Tuesday, a day after he turns 80, against an arch-conservative whose campaign received a late six-figure boost from a Trump donor. Then, assuming he wins the nomination, he must move into a general election just two months away against a well-funded Democrat, U.S. Rep. Ann Kirkpatrick, whose campaign is wrapping McCain’s support for Trump around the veteran Republican’s neck in a bid to drive up Latino turnout.

McCain insists that he will not alter his high-wire campaign strategy, which basically involves steadfast support for Trump while also reserving the right to regularly criticize the GOP nominee when he does or says something objectionable.

WaPo
Cmon Arizona, you can do better!

On August 30 2016 11:42 IgnE wrote:
On August 30 2016 10:39 Danglars wrote:
On August 30 2016 09:30 ticklishmusic wrote:
okay, i'll bite. what's so bad about the "liberal" guest worker program?

(also remind me if trump is currently for or against H1B visas, i forget)

On August 30 2016 09:04 Danglars wrote:
On August 30 2016 08:27 Plansix wrote:
On August 30 2016 07:38 Danglars wrote:
On August 30 2016 05:54 Plansix wrote:
Except that the areas that employee illegal immigrants normally have close to 100% employment already. It has nothing to do with people not wanting the jobs. There is a shortage of labor and it isn’t viable to US citizens to do the work seasonally.

Well-run guest worker programs will probably exist or be expanded should Trump get elected and have his way.

Well run and Trump are two things that do not go together. Evidence has shown he isn't very good at running things.

It's looking worse and worse for him in swing states so we might never get to put that to test. I mean this by the liberal standards for how big government should function, not the conservative standards that he hasn't espoused since the primary. It is very clear that the US should provide a guest worker program if anybody succeeds in closing the porous border because of seasonal jobs.

He's won't do it while reducing government's size and overall role, which is the conservative position. Trump, not giving a quantum of consideration to that topic and being very liberal generally, will be judged by the functioning only, and how it affects various groups.



What if we reduce government's size and overall role after a complete redistribution of property and change in property laws?
Provided we redistribute property back to those it was originally distributed from, and change property laws to make them stronger for property owners (I'm generalizing because exceptions exist in areas where property rights haven't been eroded in the last half century or more). I am quite willing to undergo a radical return to 18th century understood property rights, that by the immutable laws of nature, the inhabitants of this great country are entitled to life, liberty and property. And for clarification since the citation is comparatively ancient, no human life should be considered property.


What property was redistributed from whom to whom?

Oh you big tease. Name off all the big successes of the progressive movement from a little over a hundred years ago to today. I've been told that it was to create a more just and equitable society. The funding for these projects was not generously donated by citizens, nor found by chance from sunken Spanish galleons.


But that seems impractical in the strictest sense. Most of those people are dead. Much better to radically level the field. A reset button if you will.
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
a_flayer
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Netherlands2826 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-30 15:44:51
August 30 2016 15:21 GMT
#96983
On August 30 2016 20:14 farvacola wrote:
Show nested quote +
We are tempted to say, in fact, that the flag's deservedly cherished place in our community will be strengthened, not weakened, by our holding today. Our decision is a reaffirmation of the principles of freedom and inclusiveness that the flag best reflects, and of the conviction that our toleration of criticism such as Johnson's is a sign and source of our strength. Indeed, one of the proudest images of our flag, the one immortalized in our own national anthem, is of the bombardment it survived at Fort McHenry. It is the Nation's resilience, not its rigidity, that Texas sees reflected in the flag -- and it is that resilience that we reassert today.

The way to preserve the flag's special role is not to punish those who feel differently about these matters. It is to persuade them that they are wrong.

"To courageous, self-reliant men, with confidence in the power of free and fearless reasoning applied through the processes of popular government, no danger flowing from speech can be deemed clear and present unless the incidence of the evil apprehended is so imminent that it may befall before there is opportunity for full discussion. If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to bee applied is more speech, not enforced silence." Whitney v. California, 274 U. S. 357, 274 U. S. 377 (1927) (Brandeis, J., concurring). And, precisely because it is our flag that is involved, one's response to the flag-burner may exploit the uniquely persuasive power of the flag itself. We can imagine no more appropriate response to burning a flag than waving one's own, no better way to counter a flag burner's message than by saluting the flag that burns, no surer means of preserving the dignity even of the flag that burned than by -- as one witness here did -- according its remains a respectful burial. We do not consecrate the flag by punishing its desecration, for in doing so we dilute the freedom that this cherished emblem represents.

Texas v. Johnson, 491 U.S. 397, 490-91 (1989).

"I'm not a slick big city lawyer like my opponent here. Do you see my hand? No, you don't. I lost my real hand planting the flag when we took back Haley's comet. I love that flag even more than I love my seven wives. Yet I would gladly eat a flag myself if it would protect the freedoms that salute that flag."
- Old Man Waterfall, Futurama


Who the fuck needs an education when you have cartoons.



On August 31 2016 00:10 Doodsmack wrote:
Mad World News lead headline:

Internationally Renowned Psychic Predicts Next President & Gives Dire Warning

Maybe avoid that website...
When you came along so righteous with a new national hate, so convincing is the ardor of war and of men, it's harder to breathe than to believe you're a friend. The wars at home, the wars abroad, all soaked in blood and lies and fraud.
corumjhaelen
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
France6884 Posts
August 30 2016 15:21 GMT
#96984
#caiusgracchus ? It doesnt end well for you then Igne :p
‎numquam se plus agere quam nihil cum ageret, numquam minus solum esse quam cum solus esset
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 30 2016 15:32 GMT
#96985
Pentagon officials permitted their subordinates to use government charge cards to ring up nearly $100,000 in expenses at strip clubs and “adult entertainment establishments” and almost $1m at casinos, all without serious reprisal, a new report reveals.

Even after the US defense department’s official watchdog lambasted the official expenses for adult entertainment and gambling, senior officials did not take “appropriate” disciplinary action, according to a report by the department’s inspector general released on Tuesday.

An audit of 30 government charge-card holders determined that defense department officials neither adequately reviewed travel vouchers for reimbursement nor took action to “eliminate additional misuse”. In fact, most of those audited – 22 out of the 29 who retained their travel vouchers – received “overpayments” on their requested reimbursements at the casinos or adult-entertainment centers, totaling $8,544.

Government charge cards are supposed to be used for expenses incurred for official government business, particularly during official travel. Beyond the embarrassment of Pentagon officials getting away with using their charge cards in the clubs and casinos, the inspector general found that Pentagon management “did not consider the security implications of improper personal use of the travel card,” the report found.

The inspector general found the Pentagon experienced “potential national security vulnerabilities” by supervisors’ late or insufficient notification of the improper expenses.

The inspector general first discovered the casino and adult entertainment expenses on official government travel cards in 2015, and conducted the new inquiry to determine how superiors held those incurring the costs accountable.

That earlier inquiry found defense department personnel charging the government for 900 “adult entertainment transactions” amounting to $96,576; and 4,437 casino transactions totaling $952,258.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
RvB
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands6248 Posts
August 30 2016 15:34 GMT
#96986
On August 31 2016 00:09 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2016 23:57 RvB wrote:
On August 30 2016 22:50 Plansix wrote:
On August 30 2016 22:42 Velr wrote:
On August 30 2016 22:07 Plansix wrote:
The best part is they tried to avoid those paying those taxes in the US and got called before congress for doing so. Their response was “Our share holders demand we avoid these taxes and Ireland has a much better tax rate.” Little did we know that the tax rate was artificially low due to a sweetheart deal that only Apple got. Tax evasion at its finest.


Just wait for it... Starbucks, Amazon, McDonalds, Google are next on the list. In other countries.

Absolutely, because the EU businesses are going to start doing the same thing. The EU and US have no interest in supporting this sort of tax evasion. So rather than create rules to prevent companies from sending the money abroad, it is easier to end the sweet heart deals these companies are creating with specific nations.

Those already gpt fined. Including AB inbev and fiat iirc.

The apple response is correct regardless of the deal. Irish corporate tax rate is 12.5% compared to 35 in the US not to mention that part of the reason for the offshoring is the fact that the US taxes worldwide income.

It is correct in the fact that their stoke holders require that they seek the lowest tax rate possible for their profits. But Apple uses the US economy, infrastructure, labor market, housing and every other aspect of our country. So the only reasonable response from the US is to make the practice illegal if the US wants to collect those taxes.

The whole argument that companies are victims of taking the path of least resistance and most profit only works if we assume they have no free will. Every nation isn’t going to play a race to the bottom to be able to tax Apple’s profits, so they maybe need to get used to the idea making a little less.

Yet they also use those things in other countries and according to US tax law worldwide profits will be taxed not just what's made in the US. This goes for private citizens as well. If they want to tax them fix the tax code.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 30 2016 15:50 GMT
#96987
On August 31 2016 00:34 RvB wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 31 2016 00:09 Plansix wrote:
On August 30 2016 23:57 RvB wrote:
On August 30 2016 22:50 Plansix wrote:
On August 30 2016 22:42 Velr wrote:
On August 30 2016 22:07 Plansix wrote:
The best part is they tried to avoid those paying those taxes in the US and got called before congress for doing so. Their response was “Our share holders demand we avoid these taxes and Ireland has a much better tax rate.” Little did we know that the tax rate was artificially low due to a sweetheart deal that only Apple got. Tax evasion at its finest.


Just wait for it... Starbucks, Amazon, McDonalds, Google are next on the list. In other countries.

Absolutely, because the EU businesses are going to start doing the same thing. The EU and US have no interest in supporting this sort of tax evasion. So rather than create rules to prevent companies from sending the money abroad, it is easier to end the sweet heart deals these companies are creating with specific nations.

Those already gpt fined. Including AB inbev and fiat iirc.

The apple response is correct regardless of the deal. Irish corporate tax rate is 12.5% compared to 35 in the US not to mention that part of the reason for the offshoring is the fact that the US taxes worldwide income.

It is correct in the fact that their stoke holders require that they seek the lowest tax rate possible for their profits. But Apple uses the US economy, infrastructure, labor market, housing and every other aspect of our country. So the only reasonable response from the US is to make the practice illegal if the US wants to collect those taxes.

The whole argument that companies are victims of taking the path of least resistance and most profit only works if we assume they have no free will. Every nation isn’t going to play a race to the bottom to be able to tax Apple’s profits, so they maybe need to get used to the idea making a little less.

Yet they also use those things in other countries and according to US tax law worldwide profits will be taxed not just what's made in the US. This goes for private citizens as well. If they want to tax them fix the tax code.

It is really hard to feel bad for them when I can’t pull the same trick when I am grumpy about the tax code.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Rebs
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Pakistan10726 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-30 16:57:42
August 30 2016 16:04 GMT
#96988
On August 31 2016 00:21 a_flayer wrote:



Show nested quote +
On August 31 2016 00:10 Doodsmack wrote:
Mad World News lead headline:

Internationally Renowned Psychic Predicts Next President & Gives Dire Warning

Maybe avoid that website...


But its soo much information.

Also bringing this up again, im sure its been discussed before, considering the war on drugs is an absolute failure and a pretty tool for promoting racial injustices.

https://news.vice.com/article/ungass-portugal-what-happened-after-decriminalization-drugs-weed-to-heroin?utm_source=vicenewsfbcaads
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 30 2016 17:07 GMT
#96989
Senate Republicans could relent on their hard-line stance in opposition to granting Supreme Court nominee Merrick Garland a confirmation hearing this year, Senate Judiciary Chairman Chuck Grassley said Monday.

The Iowa Republican said in February that “it only makes sense” that the upper chamber punt into 2017 holding hearings on a replacement for late Justice Antonin Scalia. Nevertheless, President Barack Obama nominated Garland to the high court in March.

Holding a Q & A at a meeting of the Sioux City Rotary Club, Grassley on Monday said there’s a widely accepted “understanding” that no Supreme Court vacancies be filled in the final year of a presidential term.

“It had nothing to do with Garland,” Grassley said, according to the Globe Gazette, referring to the Senate’s commitment not to give any SCOTUS nominee a confirmation hearing before a new administration takes over in 2017.

While unlikely, he added that Senate Republicans could change their position if enough senators push for a hearing after the November election, leaving the door open for Garland’s confirmation before the new Congress takes office should Donald Trump lose to Hillary Clinton.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, however, has no intention of holding a hearing before Obama leaves office, his team told POLITICO on Tuesday.

“The leader has been clear, the next president will make this nomination,” said Don Stewart, McConnell’s deputy chief of staff for communications.

But Grassley was optimistic that the real estate mogul could prevail over the former secretary of state, citing Ronald Reagan’s 1980 election.

“Everybody thought a movie star could not be a president of the United States,” he said.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20254 Posts
August 30 2016 17:10 GMT
#96990
Mitch McConnell is such a clown and a disgrace.
Never Knows Best.
CannonsNCarriers
Profile Joined April 2010
United States638 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-30 18:25:17
August 30 2016 18:23 GMT
#96991
I can't wait for Constitutional Conservatives who know that only Conservatives love the first Amendment to vote for Trump. Trump announces he will sue journalists who say things he doesn't like, and is proud of previous nuisance lawsuits that never went anywhere because it costs money to defend frivolous lawsuits. I really want to hear the conservative poster spin for this gem:



EDIT: but EMAILZ amirite?
Dun tuch my cheezbrgr
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States5756 Posts
August 30 2016 18:26 GMT
#96992
Freedom of the press doesn't mean your press doesn't have consequences.
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
SpiritoftheTunA
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States20903 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-30 18:30:12
August 30 2016 18:28 GMT
#96993
On August 31 2016 03:26 oBlade wrote:
Freedom of the press doesn't mean your press doesn't have consequences.

but a functioning legal system involves people being able to bleed others' time and money disproportionately if you have enough money and clout yourself?

maybe functioning isnt the right word

but you should know what i mean
posting on liquid sites in current year
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
August 30 2016 18:31 GMT
#96994
On August 31 2016 00:10 IgnE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2016 13:33 Danglars wrote:
On August 30 2016 12:58 IgnE wrote:
On August 30 2016 12:46 Danglars wrote:
PHOENIX — After 30 years in the Senate, during which he transformed himself from war hero into political icon, John McCain now finds himself in more jeopardy than at any time during his political career. And for much of that, he can blame Donald Trump.

This reelection campaign, his fifth, is forcing the Arizona Republican to do battle on multiple fronts, testing his political dexterity in ways unlike any of his previous races, including two unsuccessful bids for the presidency.

First he must clear his primary Tuesday, a day after he turns 80, against an arch-conservative whose campaign received a late six-figure boost from a Trump donor. Then, assuming he wins the nomination, he must move into a general election just two months away against a well-funded Democrat, U.S. Rep. Ann Kirkpatrick, whose campaign is wrapping McCain’s support for Trump around the veteran Republican’s neck in a bid to drive up Latino turnout.

McCain insists that he will not alter his high-wire campaign strategy, which basically involves steadfast support for Trump while also reserving the right to regularly criticize the GOP nominee when he does or says something objectionable.

WaPo
Cmon Arizona, you can do better!

On August 30 2016 11:42 IgnE wrote:
On August 30 2016 10:39 Danglars wrote:
On August 30 2016 09:30 ticklishmusic wrote:
okay, i'll bite. what's so bad about the "liberal" guest worker program?

(also remind me if trump is currently for or against H1B visas, i forget)

On August 30 2016 09:04 Danglars wrote:
On August 30 2016 08:27 Plansix wrote:
On August 30 2016 07:38 Danglars wrote:
On August 30 2016 05:54 Plansix wrote:
Except that the areas that employee illegal immigrants normally have close to 100% employment already. It has nothing to do with people not wanting the jobs. There is a shortage of labor and it isn’t viable to US citizens to do the work seasonally.

Well-run guest worker programs will probably exist or be expanded should Trump get elected and have his way.

Well run and Trump are two things that do not go together. Evidence has shown he isn't very good at running things.

It's looking worse and worse for him in swing states so we might never get to put that to test. I mean this by the liberal standards for how big government should function, not the conservative standards that he hasn't espoused since the primary. It is very clear that the US should provide a guest worker program if anybody succeeds in closing the porous border because of seasonal jobs.

He's won't do it while reducing government's size and overall role, which is the conservative position. Trump, not giving a quantum of consideration to that topic and being very liberal generally, will be judged by the functioning only, and how it affects various groups.



What if we reduce government's size and overall role after a complete redistribution of property and change in property laws?
Provided we redistribute property back to those it was originally distributed from, and change property laws to make them stronger for property owners (I'm generalizing because exceptions exist in areas where property rights haven't been eroded in the last half century or more). I am quite willing to undergo a radical return to 18th century understood property rights, that by the immutable laws of nature, the inhabitants of this great country are entitled to life, liberty and property. And for clarification since the citation is comparatively ancient, no human life should be considered property.


What property was redistributed from whom to whom?

Oh you big tease. Name off all the big successes of the progressive movement from a little over a hundred years ago to today. I've been told that it was to create a more just and equitable society. The funding for these projects was not generously donated by citizens, nor found by chance from sunken Spanish galleons.


But that seems impractical in the strictest sense. Most of those people are dead. Much better to radically level the field. A reset button if you will.

Well, I don't know your intentions bringing it up again this broadly, but you're striking on the simplest element of the disagreement that spans centuries. I wonder how many hundreds or thousands of books have been written on the subject in the past and how many will in the future. I'm not here to write a political treatise on the practicality of private property rights and their relation to bedrock virtues of the civil society. I'm just saying Donald "I've got the best plans" Trump will be judged on the results of big government solutions if elected.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
CannonsNCarriers
Profile Joined April 2010
United States638 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-30 18:33:44
August 30 2016 18:32 GMT
#96995
On August 31 2016 03:26 oBlade wrote:
Freedom of the press doesn't mean your press doesn't have consequences.


So you are cool with Trump's abuse of process lawsuits that he files knowing he will lose just to bleed journalists of money? Trump says he does it because he "has a good deal with his lawyers". Quite the admission on your part. You don't believe in free press or free speech.

EDIT: imagine the "good deal with his lawyers" President Trump would have if he had command of the DOJ. Trump could spend the public's money filing harassment lawsuits against all the journalists who call him out.
Dun tuch my cheezbrgr
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
August 30 2016 18:33 GMT
#96996
On August 31 2016 03:28 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 31 2016 03:26 oBlade wrote:
Freedom of the press doesn't mean your press doesn't have consequences.

but a functioning legal system involves people being able to bleed others' time and money disproportionately if you have enough money and clout yourself?

maybe functioning isnt the right word

but you should know what i mean


now peter thiel speaking at the RNC makes more sense
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
August 30 2016 18:33 GMT
#96997
On August 31 2016 03:28 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 31 2016 03:26 oBlade wrote:
Freedom of the press doesn't mean your press doesn't have consequences.

but a functioning legal system involves people being able to bleed others' time and money disproportionately if you have enough money and clout yourself?

maybe functioning isnt the right word

but you should know what i mean


As an attorney, I highly doubt Trump's claim that he's able to bleed others' time and money disproportionately. I all but guarantee that the claim is mere puffery.

And it's not like Trump can just sue anyone who says something that he doesn't like. If he doesn't plead a facially valid defamation claim with sufficient specificity, he'll get his ass handed to him at the outset of the case.
CannonsNCarriers
Profile Joined April 2010
United States638 Posts
August 30 2016 18:34 GMT
#96998
On August 31 2016 03:33 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 31 2016 03:28 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
On August 31 2016 03:26 oBlade wrote:
Freedom of the press doesn't mean your press doesn't have consequences.

but a functioning legal system involves people being able to bleed others' time and money disproportionately if you have enough money and clout yourself?

maybe functioning isnt the right word

but you should know what i mean


As an attorney, I highly doubt Trump's claim that he's able to bleed others' time and money disproportionately. I all but guarantee that the claim is mere puffery.

And it's not like Trump can just sue anyone who says something that he doesn't like. If he doesn't plead a facially valid defamation claim with sufficient specificity, he'll get his ass handed to him at the outset of the case.


Read the quote. Trump says "the judges, they never let it go to court". He didn't plead facially valid. But still drained. You are voting for that man to have command of the DOJ.
Dun tuch my cheezbrgr
SpiritoftheTunA
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States20903 Posts
August 30 2016 18:34 GMT
#96999
On August 31 2016 03:33 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 31 2016 03:28 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
On August 31 2016 03:26 oBlade wrote:
Freedom of the press doesn't mean your press doesn't have consequences.

but a functioning legal system involves people being able to bleed others' time and money disproportionately if you have enough money and clout yourself?

maybe functioning isnt the right word

but you should know what i mean


As an attorney, I highly doubt Trump's claim that he's able to bleed others' time and money disproportionately. I all but guarantee that the claim is mere puffery.

even if it's not strictly disproportionate relative to the currency itself, it's often disproportionate relative to networth and in terms of personal emotional investment, etc
posting on liquid sites in current year
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-30 18:39:56
August 30 2016 18:37 GMT
#97000
The get Gawker method of destroying publications when news reporting is at its least profitable is a threat to the free press. No publication can stand up to litigation from all angles funded by a billionaire with an ax to grind.

Edit: Xdaunt, you know it is next to impossible to have the court award attorneys fees if a case is dismissed. Or at all. The validity of the defamation case is almost secondary.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
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