EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 4825
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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Hexe
United States332 Posts
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On August 26 2016 09:41 TheYango wrote: Personally, I just feel like the risk of terrorist attack is actually just a lot lower than it is perceived to be, and is often played-up by various media sources for the sake of generating views. It's definitely a real danger, but probably not so high as to demand the extreme measures being proposed. It's also kind of odd to me that a lot of people who believe highly in the risk of terrorist attacks are also those who would be least exposed to danger in such situations. If you live in your mom's basement in Podunk, USA, there's basically 0% chance that you or anyone you know is actually going to be the victim of a terrorist attack, even if one occurs. The people at highest risk are young professionals that travel a lot or people that live in major cities, but these tend to represent comparatively liberal populations who are actually against such extreme anti-immigration measures in the average case. Terrorism isn't even the real problem and is a bit of a red herring. The larger problem is importing people into this country who may fundamentally reject our values. That's a real problem in a democracy. | ||
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biology]major
United States2253 Posts
On August 26 2016 09:41 TheYango wrote: Personally, I just feel like the risk of terrorist attack is actually just a lot lower than it is perceived to be, and is often played-up by various media sources for the sake of generating views. It's definitely a real danger, but probably not so high as to demand the extreme measures being proposed. It's also kind of odd to me that a lot of people who believe highly in the risk of terrorist attacks are also those who would be least exposed to danger in such situations. If you live in your mom's basement in Podunk, USA, there's basically 0% chance that you or anyone you know is actually going to be the victim of a terrorist attack, even if one occurs. The people at highest risk are young professionals that travel a lot or people that live in major cities, but these tend to represent comparatively liberal populations who are actually against such extreme anti-immigration measures in the average case. The problem is that even if someone who isn't currently planning to blow people up comes to the US, the chance of them being radicalized is much higher if they come from high-risk countries. Dealing with the problem from the inside is almost impossible(due to our own constitutional rights), so it is best to take preventative measures. We also get to knock out bigoted views including sharia law, anti- women, anti-gay sentiments. 2 birds with one stone. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On August 26 2016 09:46 Hexe wrote: i love milo and a few others on that spectrum, why do some people find him a bully? hes not as good as ben shapiro i dont think. but i find these videos so entertaining. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWTg6h4e3p4 cant believe how far our college systems have fallen when it comes to sharing and discovering new ideas. Leftists can't stand Milo because he's immune to their typical slander tactics and presents a message that is highly subversive to leftist interests. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On August 26 2016 09:48 xDaunt wrote: Terrorism isn't even the real problem and is a bit of a red herring. The larger problem is importing people into this country who may fundamentally reject our values. That's a real problem in a democracy. Pardon my ignorance, but hasn't that risk been present from immigration in general for the last 200 years? Why is it specifically more dangerous now and specifically from these countries if not for the terrorism red herring? | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On August 26 2016 09:55 TheYango wrote: Pardon my ignorance, but hasn't that risk been present from immigration in general for the last 200 years? Why is it specifically more dangerous now and specifically from these countries if not for the terrorism red herring? Because the mass importation of Sharia-law adhering Muslims is a far different prospect than the mass-importation of Catholic Italians or peoples from any other Western culture. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On August 26 2016 09:58 xDaunt wrote: Because the mass importation of Sharia-law adhering Muslims is a far different prospect than the mass-importation of Catholic Italians or peoples from any other Western culture. What about the mass importation of Africans for slave labor? | ||
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oBlade
United States6068 Posts
On August 26 2016 09:59 TheYango wrote: What about the mass importation of Africans for slave labor? They were slaves, slaves aren't really a threat to anything, right? | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
On August 26 2016 09:48 xDaunt wrote:... Terrorism isn't even the real problem and is a bit of a red herring. The larger problem is importing people into this country who may fundamentally reject our values. That's a real problem in a democracy. You and I fundamentally reject a lot of the values of the other. Is that a "real problem"? (Yes, I know I'm not from the US. Substitute somebody else in this thread who fundamentally disagrees with you in some way or another, if necessary.) There are a number of far-right-wing xenophobic lunatics (and, for that matter, a few left-wing nutjobs) which have been elected in my own country whose values I thoroughly reject. That's how democracy works. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On August 26 2016 09:59 TheYango wrote: What about the mass importation of Africans for slave labor? Not a problem for a variety of reasons. What separates Muslims from other groups is the religion. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 26 2016 09:58 Doodsmack wrote: Relying on an abstract argument about values and democracy to institute a country of origin ban (when it comes to Trump we'll hope he doesn't mean it when he says a religion ban) seems very odd to me. We are the nation founded on escaping religious oppression, yet some want to ban some immigrants based on the fact that they might hold beliefs that are dangerous. The chance of having people who believe different things is to great. And this same group also wants to ban abortions based on religion. And supports school prayer. The best part is if you replace "Muslims" with "communist" and "region" with "ideology", you can transport most of the arguments back to the 50s and they work perfectly. | ||
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TMagpie
265 Posts
On August 26 2016 09:58 xDaunt wrote: Because the mass importation of Sharia-law adhering Muslims is a far different prospect than the mass-importation of Catholic Italians or peoples from any other Western culture. So you trust people who used to burn women at the stake and crucify non-believers over brown people? | ||
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
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PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
On August 26 2016 09:58 xDaunt wrote: Because the mass importation of Sharia-law adhering Muslims is a far different prospect than the mass-importation of Catholic Italians or peoples from any other Western culture. Uh you must know that people feared that Catholic immigrants would only be loyal to Rome right? Or is it that those immigrants were compatible with western society, and these new ones arnt? | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 26 2016 10:16 Slaughter wrote: Next we will ban immigrants from Europe because their ideologies are too liberal and clash with our capitalist values. Don't stawman, clearly the ideas and thoughts of the brown people who with a different religion are the most dangerous. All evidence points to our own citizens and domestic terrorism, but forget that. Fear the brown people from over seas. | ||
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
On August 26 2016 10:17 PassiveAce wrote: Uh you must know that people feared that Catholic immigrants would only be loyal to Rome right? Or is it that those immigrants were compatible with western society, and these new ones arnt? We are a country of immigrants who always finds an argument against the newest waves of immigrants. On August 26 2016 10:18 Plansix wrote: Don't stawman, clearly the ideas and thoughts of the brown people who with a different religion are the most dangerous. All evidence points to our own citizens and domestic terrorism, but forget that. Fear the brown people from over seas. With the kind of derision and hostility that some people speak of Europe I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't already exist in some form. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On August 26 2016 10:09 Aquanim wrote: You and I fundamentally reject a lot of the values of the other. Is that a "real problem"? (Yes, I know I'm not from the US. Substitute somebody else in this thread who fundamentally disagrees with you in some way or another, if necessary.) It depends upon what values we are talking about. Even though many Americans disagree with each other on a number of political issues, there are fundamental values that are shared by virtually all Americans that are not shared by large numbers of Muslims (and which are antithetical to the values that many Muslims hold). Having a conversation about gay rights is a total nonstarter when one side demands that all gays be killed in the name of Allah. A discussion about women's right is going to be pretty fruitless when there's insistence from one side that all women cover themselves up. And this is what's most infuriating to conservatives about the debate. For all of the shit that conservatives get from the left about gay and women's rights, conservatives rightly perceive that Muslims get a free on these issues when the positions of most Muslims are 100x worse than anything that a conservative believes. | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
On August 26 2016 10:17 PassiveAce wrote: Uh you must know that people feared that Catholic immigrants would only be loyal to Rome right? Or is it that those immigrants were compatible with western society, and these new ones arnt? This is the same argument that has been had every time a country has faced a new wave of immigrants from some other nation or ethnicity. Inevitably, some people fear for the integrity of their nation. Inevitably, some of the immigrants are slow to integrate. Inevitably, (possibly given a generation or two), the immigrant peoples integrate and become on the whole productive members of society, while preserving some aspects of their own culture. We've done this dance before. Many times. | ||
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