In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!
NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
On July 26 2016 04:24 Nyxisto wrote: Sanders literally stated a year ago that he's not going to blow the Democratic party apart and will endorse the democratic candidate should he lose, what 'true colors' lol
that's political talk m8
It shows he is tone deaf to his supporters and despite our ever changing world, he is not reacting to what is happening. He's simply following the same script.
He should have denounced Trump and Clinton and left it at that, it's a bad move.
isn't it more backbone to say what he believes is right, rather than to say whatever some of his supporters favor to get elected?
No, after he got fucked by the party he should not be supporting them in the slightest but he's definitely taking behind the scene deals.
That's where the tone deaf disconnect comes in
he didn't get screwed over by the entire party; only be some parts of it. and it's not like he HIMSELF is a long-time democrat. I think you just aren't grasping the full situation well.
No this is just why I can't take this election seriously, everyone is either far left or far right, very few moderates like myself left. Talking to anyone is like talking to a brick wall. haven't seen a good post since Kwark's.
uhhh; I'm a moderate, and there's plent yof other moderates around. I'm not so sure you're a moderate, you don't really talk like one. But people can self-identify as whatever they like I guess. In fact the bulk of voters are independents adn moderates; if talking to everyone is like talking to a brick wall, have you considered that maybe the problem is something in your perception? that's more common really. Your sense of moderate vs extreme doesn't seem to matchup with how people typically use the term.
You're going to tell me some one like Plansix can be spoken to rationally and he isn't the problem? If so you aren't a moderate.
He can be rather rough; but there's plenty of worse in the thread; and your sense of who's moderate and who isn't is simply terrible, and he did answer your question clearly. I am a moderate, you're simply wrong; not sure why, but you seem to be missing some basic details on how things work. and your definition of extremist is basically nonsense.
If you can't calmly and objectively see both sides like Kwark's post earlier ( i know he's leftist but as a result not extremist) then you are extremist in my book. Full on left/right nut huggers are unbearable to me.
I can see both sides; so I'm not sure what you're talking about. Also, that's not about extremism, but capacity for empathy and understanding. I'm not full on left/right at all. You're simply failing to classify people well, or understand the points they're making.
On July 26 2016 05:17 CobaltBlu wrote: Rather I think the problem is that when people have their opinion challenged they resort to calling people their favorite buzzword instead of engaging in discourse. Note VayneAuthority has failed to explain how personal career advancement is the same as campaigning for a political platform.
because its a stupid side-tangent that's completely irrelevant to my point, im not engaging in what the hilary/trump debates are going to be.
It was basically a bunch of ring side trolls chiming in the thread at that point and im done with it.
Status quo lovers? could be. I'm wondering how to measure how pro-status quo someone is; I mean, everyone has a lot of stuff they'd like to change if they could (or maybe they don't?).
I'm wondering about the basis on which you think the thread is full of status quo lovers? Could you elaborate?
On July 26 2016 04:27 VayneAuthority wrote: [quote]
that's political talk m8
It shows he is tone deaf to his supporters and despite our ever changing world, he is not reacting to what is happening. He's simply following the same script.
He should have denounced Trump and Clinton and left it at that, it's a bad move.
isn't it more backbone to say what he believes is right, rather than to say whatever some of his supporters favor to get elected?
No, after he got fucked by the party he should not be supporting them in the slightest but he's definitely taking behind the scene deals.
That's where the tone deaf disconnect comes in
he didn't get screwed over by the entire party; only be some parts of it. and it's not like he HIMSELF is a long-time democrat. I think you just aren't grasping the full situation well.
No this is just why I can't take this election seriously, everyone is either far left or far right, very few moderates like myself left. Talking to anyone is like talking to a brick wall. haven't seen a good post since Kwark's.
uhhh; I'm a moderate, and there's plent yof other moderates around. I'm not so sure you're a moderate, you don't really talk like one. But people can self-identify as whatever they like I guess. In fact the bulk of voters are independents adn moderates; if talking to everyone is like talking to a brick wall, have you considered that maybe the problem is something in your perception? that's more common really. Your sense of moderate vs extreme doesn't seem to matchup with how people typically use the term.
You're going to tell me some one like Plansix can be spoken to rationally and he isn't the problem? If so you aren't a moderate.
He can be rather rough; but there's plenty of worse in the thread; and your sense of who's moderate and who isn't is simply terrible, and he did answer your question clearly. I am a moderate, you're simply wrong; not sure why, but you seem to be missing some basic details on how things work. and your definition of extremist is basically nonsense.
If you can't calmly and objectively see both sides like Kwark's post earlier ( i know he's leftist but as a result not extremist) then you are extremist in my book. Full on left/right nut huggers are unbearable to me.
I can see both sides; so I'm not sure what you're talking about. Also, that's not about extremism, but capacity for empathy and understanding. I'm not full on left/right at all. You're simply failing to classify people well, or understand the points they're making.
That's your opinion, im not saying you have to take on my definition but being condescending doesn't help your case of endearing yourself to me lol. You have a different view of it and that's fine. I take the literal meaning of it as in far from the centre. If you only can see from either left or right, you are "extreme" in my books. as I said i've dropped it, you guys are too smart and better opinions then me hehe xd
On July 26 2016 05:01 Nevuk wrote: To me this thread is far right land. I think it's just a matter of perspective
This is hilarious. This place is anything but.
For perspective, I'm fairly sure I'm by far the furthest left person in this thread, that one political quiz in the thread a few days ago had me at -8.8, -8.7
You could be right about being the biggest leftist in the thread, but, overall, this thread is way left of standard American politics.
I'm sure you're employing a widely accepted definition of the phrase "standard American politics" right here.
If one were to draw up a list of the top 20 posters in this thread by post count, I think most of these rather broad generalizations as to its relative homogeneity would be immediately cast into doubt. While there are definitely some common traits among posters here and there may be a general leftward trend, more varied viewpoints are found here than many of this thread's detractors represent.
On July 26 2016 05:10 Plansix wrote: You are not the most left until you are challenging others to prove they are pure enough to call themselves progressive. You need 200% more gate keeping.
I'm so confused by this term, it was first used by Roosevelt and as far as I can tell it mostly referred to making national parks, or at least that's where I first heard the term in 2004. Every time I hear it I picture someone shouting about stuffed animals or smokey the bear.
Really though, progressive doesn't really seem that far left to me, it's mostly just used to refer to the liberal wing of the democratic party. And I've given up on anything I ever support actually happening, so I mostly am just an observer nowadays.
I think Sanders is a good enough politician to control his supporters unless the DNC keeps somehow shooting themselves, which isn't really his fault.
It was a reference to the tendency of the extreme left to devolve into factions which all claim to be the only real incarnation of the ideals they all share and all insist the others are perversions who have deviated from true ideological purity. This was brilliantly satirized in Monty Python's Life of Brian with the Jewish nationalist groups in which they all constantly deride each other as splitters, have increasingly long and absurd names for themselves, are all completely indistinguishable and when called upon to unite against the common enemy collectively turn upon the most universally hated of their own, not the Roman establishment.
If you have yet to lose sight of the establishment as the enemy then there are still people to the left of you.
On July 26 2016 04:31 zlefin wrote: [quote] isn't it more backbone to say what he believes is right, rather than to say whatever some of his supporters favor to get elected?
No, after he got fucked by the party he should not be supporting them in the slightest but he's definitely taking behind the scene deals.
That's where the tone deaf disconnect comes in
he didn't get screwed over by the entire party; only be some parts of it. and it's not like he HIMSELF is a long-time democrat. I think you just aren't grasping the full situation well.
No this is just why I can't take this election seriously, everyone is either far left or far right, very few moderates like myself left. Talking to anyone is like talking to a brick wall. haven't seen a good post since Kwark's.
uhhh; I'm a moderate, and there's plent yof other moderates around. I'm not so sure you're a moderate, you don't really talk like one. But people can self-identify as whatever they like I guess. In fact the bulk of voters are independents adn moderates; if talking to everyone is like talking to a brick wall, have you considered that maybe the problem is something in your perception? that's more common really. Your sense of moderate vs extreme doesn't seem to matchup with how people typically use the term.
You're going to tell me some one like Plansix can be spoken to rationally and he isn't the problem? If so you aren't a moderate.
He can be rather rough; but there's plenty of worse in the thread; and your sense of who's moderate and who isn't is simply terrible, and he did answer your question clearly. I am a moderate, you're simply wrong; not sure why, but you seem to be missing some basic details on how things work. and your definition of extremist is basically nonsense.
If you can't calmly and objectively see both sides like Kwark's post earlier ( i know he's leftist but as a result not extremist) then you are extremist in my book. Full on left/right nut huggers are unbearable to me.
I can see both sides; so I'm not sure what you're talking about. Also, that's not about extremism, but capacity for empathy and understanding. I'm not full on left/right at all. You're simply failing to classify people well, or understand the points they're making.
That's your opinion, im not saying you have to take on my definition but being condescending doesn't help your case of endearing yourself to me lol. You have a different view of it and that's fine. I take the literal meaning of it as in far from the centre. If you only can see from either left or right, you are "extreme" in my books. as I said i've dropped it, you guys are too smart and better opinions then me hehe xd
the problem is you're applying that label to a lot of people who can see the other side. I wasn't trying to endear myself to you; it's one of the known limits on my capabilities.
On July 26 2016 05:01 Nevuk wrote: To me this thread is far right land. I think it's just a matter of perspective
This is hilarious. This place is anything but.
For perspective, I'm fairly sure I'm by far the furthest left person in this thread, that one political quiz in the thread a few days ago had me at -8.8, -8.7
You could be right about being the biggest leftist in the thread, but, overall, this thread is way left of standard American politics.
Oh, that's definitely true. My job I work with a bunch of 70+ year old white men, now that's some really conservative stuff.
However, as far as online political discussion places go, this is one of the more conservative places to have discussion outside of sites devoted to the conservative side. It's also been decent for not being a total echo chamber, which has been a problem for reddit or sites like it.
On July 26 2016 05:10 Plansix wrote: You are not the most left until you are challenging others to prove they are pure enough to call themselves progressive. You need 200% more gate keeping.
I'm so confused by this term, it was first used by Roosevelt and as far as I can tell it mostly referred to making national parks, or at least that's where I first heard the term in 2004. Every time I hear it I picture someone shouting about stuffed animals or smokey the bear.
Really though, progressive doesn't really seem that far left to me, it's mostly just used to refer to the liberal wing of the democratic party. And I've given up on anything I ever support actually happening, so I mostly am just an observer nowadays.
I think Sanders is a good enough politician to control his supporters unless the DNC keeps somehow shooting themselves, which isn't really his fault.
Progressive is the new term in the US for people who want to be farther left than a liberal. It is also the shitty, no compromise wing of the Democratic party. I was mocking internet progressives who are in the collective performance art of proving who is the most progressive and pure.
I use it myself out of habit. But I should switch back to just saying I lean liberal on social issues.
On July 26 2016 05:01 Nevuk wrote: To me this thread is far right land. I think it's just a matter of perspective
This is hilarious. This place is anything but.
For perspective, I'm fairly sure I'm by far the furthest left person in this thread, that one political quiz in the thread a few days ago had me at -8.8, -8.7
You could be right about being the biggest leftist in the thread, but, overall, this thread is way left of standard American politics.
I'm sure you're employing a widely accepted definition of the phrase "standard American politics" right here.
Some places still segregate school dances. Some places have legalized just about everything there is to legalize. We're a diverse place.
On July 26 2016 05:23 Doodsmack wrote: Hillary supporters aren't status quo lovers, they are danger avoiders.
Brilliantly said actually, it's exactly that. The people that actually want the statu quo nowadays are a very thin minority.
One could argue Trump is a lifelong status quo lover, considering the amount of money he has donated to crooked career politicians in order to prop up the status quo for his benefit.
On July 26 2016 04:33 VayneAuthority wrote: [quote]
No, after he got fucked by the party he should not be supporting them in the slightest but he's definitely taking behind the scene deals.
That's where the tone deaf disconnect comes in
he didn't get screwed over by the entire party; only be some parts of it. and it's not like he HIMSELF is a long-time democrat. I think you just aren't grasping the full situation well.
No this is just why I can't take this election seriously, everyone is either far left or far right, very few moderates like myself left. Talking to anyone is like talking to a brick wall. haven't seen a good post since Kwark's.
uhhh; I'm a moderate, and there's plent yof other moderates around. I'm not so sure you're a moderate, you don't really talk like one. But people can self-identify as whatever they like I guess. In fact the bulk of voters are independents adn moderates; if talking to everyone is like talking to a brick wall, have you considered that maybe the problem is something in your perception? that's more common really. Your sense of moderate vs extreme doesn't seem to matchup with how people typically use the term.
You're going to tell me some one like Plansix can be spoken to rationally and he isn't the problem? If so you aren't a moderate.
He can be rather rough; but there's plenty of worse in the thread; and your sense of who's moderate and who isn't is simply terrible, and he did answer your question clearly. I am a moderate, you're simply wrong; not sure why, but you seem to be missing some basic details on how things work. and your definition of extremist is basically nonsense.
If you can't calmly and objectively see both sides like Kwark's post earlier ( i know he's leftist but as a result not extremist) then you are extremist in my book. Full on left/right nut huggers are unbearable to me.
I can see both sides; so I'm not sure what you're talking about. Also, that's not about extremism, but capacity for empathy and understanding. I'm not full on left/right at all. You're simply failing to classify people well, or understand the points they're making.
That's your opinion, im not saying you have to take on my definition but being condescending doesn't help your case of endearing yourself to me lol. You have a different view of it and that's fine. I take the literal meaning of it as in far from the centre. If you only can see from either left or right, you are "extreme" in my books. as I said i've dropped it, you guys are too smart and better opinions then me hehe xd
the problem is you're applying that label to a lot of people who can see the other side. I wasn't trying to endear myself to you; it's one of the known limits on my capabilities.
So what exactly makes you think im not a moderate when ive posted nothing pro left or pro right, I was curious why you said that
On July 26 2016 05:23 Doodsmack wrote: Hillary supporters aren't status quo lovers, they are danger avoiders.
Brilliantly said actually, it's exactly that. The people that actually want the statu quo nowadays are a very thin minority.
One could argue Trump is a lifelong status quo lover, considering the amount of money he has donated to crooked career politicians in order to prop up the status quo for his benefit.
Ending all trade agreement and talking about leaving the WTO is not being for the statu quo really ...
On July 26 2016 04:31 zlefin wrote: [quote] isn't it more backbone to say what he believes is right, rather than to say whatever some of his supporters favor to get elected?
No, after he got fucked by the party he should not be supporting them in the slightest but he's definitely taking behind the scene deals.
That's where the tone deaf disconnect comes in
he didn't get screwed over by the entire party; only be some parts of it. and it's not like he HIMSELF is a long-time democrat. I think you just aren't grasping the full situation well.
No this is just why I can't take this election seriously, everyone is either far left or far right, very few moderates like myself left. Talking to anyone is like talking to a brick wall. haven't seen a good post since Kwark's.
uhhh; I'm a moderate, and there's plent yof other moderates around. I'm not so sure you're a moderate, you don't really talk like one. But people can self-identify as whatever they like I guess. In fact the bulk of voters are independents adn moderates; if talking to everyone is like talking to a brick wall, have you considered that maybe the problem is something in your perception? that's more common really. Your sense of moderate vs extreme doesn't seem to matchup with how people typically use the term.
You're going to tell me some one like Plansix can be spoken to rationally and he isn't the problem? If so you aren't a moderate.
He can be rather rough; but there's plenty of worse in the thread; and your sense of who's moderate and who isn't is simply terrible, and he did answer your question clearly. I am a moderate, you're simply wrong; not sure why, but you seem to be missing some basic details on how things work. and your definition of extremist is basically nonsense.
If you can't calmly and objectively see both sides like Kwark's post earlier ( i know he's leftist but as a result not extremist) then you are extremist in my book. Full on left/right nut huggers are unbearable to me.
I can see both sides; so I'm not sure what you're talking about. Also, that's not about extremism, but capacity for empathy and understanding. I'm not full on left/right at all. You're simply failing to classify people well, or understand the points they're making.
That's your opinion, im not saying you have to take on my definition but being condescending doesn't help your case of endearing yourself to me lol. You have a different view of it and that's fine. I take the literal meaning of it as in far from the centre. If you only can see from either left or right, you are "extreme" in my books. as I said i've dropped it, you guys are too smart and better opinions then me hehe xd
You're new to this thread. It's an interesting place, though posting quality has declined somewhat of late. Okay, it's declined a lot. Anyways, I would recommend getting the lay of the land before making any judgement or whatever.
On July 26 2016 04:33 VayneAuthority wrote: [quote]
No, after he got fucked by the party he should not be supporting them in the slightest but he's definitely taking behind the scene deals.
That's where the tone deaf disconnect comes in
he didn't get screwed over by the entire party; only be some parts of it. and it's not like he HIMSELF is a long-time democrat. I think you just aren't grasping the full situation well.
No this is just why I can't take this election seriously, everyone is either far left or far right, very few moderates like myself left. Talking to anyone is like talking to a brick wall. haven't seen a good post since Kwark's.
uhhh; I'm a moderate, and there's plent yof other moderates around. I'm not so sure you're a moderate, you don't really talk like one. But people can self-identify as whatever they like I guess. In fact the bulk of voters are independents adn moderates; if talking to everyone is like talking to a brick wall, have you considered that maybe the problem is something in your perception? that's more common really. Your sense of moderate vs extreme doesn't seem to matchup with how people typically use the term.
You're going to tell me some one like Plansix can be spoken to rationally and he isn't the problem? If so you aren't a moderate.
He can be rather rough; but there's plenty of worse in the thread; and your sense of who's moderate and who isn't is simply terrible, and he did answer your question clearly. I am a moderate, you're simply wrong; not sure why, but you seem to be missing some basic details on how things work. and your definition of extremist is basically nonsense.
If you can't calmly and objectively see both sides like Kwark's post earlier ( i know he's leftist but as a result not extremist) then you are extremist in my book. Full on left/right nut huggers are unbearable to me.
I can see both sides; so I'm not sure what you're talking about. Also, that's not about extremism, but capacity for empathy and understanding. I'm not full on left/right at all. You're simply failing to classify people well, or understand the points they're making.
That's your opinion, im not saying you have to take on my definition but being condescending doesn't help your case of endearing yourself to me lol. You have a different view of it and that's fine. I take the literal meaning of it as in far from the centre. If you only can see from either left or right, you are "extreme" in my books. as I said i've dropped it, you guys are too smart and better opinions then me hehe xd
You're new to this thread. It's an interesting place, though posting quality has declined somewhat of late. Okay, it's declined a lot. Anyways, I would recommend getting the lay of the land before making any judgement or whatever.
Conservatism thinking, always saying every used to be better ...
EPT
