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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
April 05 2016 22:47 GMT
#71101
the corporate media reacts with glee at sanders stumbling

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2016/04/05/9-things-bernie-sanders-shouldve-known-about-but-didnt-in-that-daily-news-interview/
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
April 05 2016 22:47 GMT
#71102
On April 06 2016 06:23 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 06 2016 06:04 oneofthem wrote:
On April 06 2016 05:53 cLutZ wrote:
On April 06 2016 05:47 Plansix wrote:
On April 06 2016 05:43 cLutZ wrote:
On April 06 2016 05:29 Plansix wrote:
Clutz, How do you respond to the fact that the GOP has let is slip during interviews that voter suppression is their goal with these laws? That they cut "Obama's margin by 5%". It was so blatant John Oliver pointed it out.

Edit: And I am not in favor of laws that restrict voting when we have almost no voter fraud in the country. They are laws addressing issued that don't exist.


If John Oliver pointed it out then gollllly.

Like I said, the assertion that there is almost no voter fraud is impossible to verify statistically because there is no reason to know what it would look like statistically. People are not caught doing it because its hard to catch them, because there is no way to verify, or if they do get "caught" or suspect they will be they can just walk out of the polling place.

Only a systematic FBI sting can determine how easy it is to commit voter fraud.

Moreover, that fraud is likely a goal of the Democrats (insomuch that suppression is a goal of Republicans) is demonstrated when they oppose things like purging inactive voter rolls.

It really doesn’t matter who pointed it out, the GOP member talked specifically about cutting into the Obama’s results through voter ID laws. Like it was a good thing.

Wouldn’t it be more productive to have someone investigate if this is an issue and then write the law if it is? Rather than assuming it’s a problem and then placing additional burdens on voters?


Yes. It would be more productive. But just look at oneofthem's response, there is one side heavily invested in NOT investigating the ease of voter fraud.

On April 06 2016 05:46 oneofthem wrote:
whats the point of stinging a lax process. fbi has better ways to use its resources, such as monitoring organized networks conducting election fraud. these things need organization to be problems, are you suggesting dems are doing this en masse ?

Its probably 50/50 that Al Franken was elected to the Senate due to voter fraud. It should be clear to anyone with a brain that Miami-Dade county tried to alter their results in 2000 once it became clear how close Florida was. Its willful blindness to claim otherwise.

Just as it would be blindness by me to not acknowledge that the GOP would benefit from some increased obstacles to voting such as IDs, or verification of residency/citizenship. I, however think those do not amount to substantial burdens on the right to vote. They are trivial, and in fact necessary if we are to ever modernize the entire voting system (which we should do as well).

you know what to sting or tap in that case? thr organizing committees of the parties. whats the point of setting up an old lady manning the rolls?


Obviously it would not solve the problem, it would, however, reveal the problem, which is half the problem: that one side denies a problem even exists.

[...]

I am just stunned by how much that sounds like something GH would post if you have no context.
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
April 05 2016 22:49 GMT
#71103
On April 06 2016 05:26 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
is this even legal outside of dealing with dictatorships?

Show nested quote +
Republican White House hopeful Donald Trump has said he would stop cash sent home by Mexicans based in the US, until the country pays for a border wall.
The prospect of losing a vital source of income would force Mexico into a "one-time payment" of $5-10bn (£3.5-7bn), says Mr Trump.
But US President Barack Obama said the plan was "half-baked" and unworkable...

The Mexican central bank said that money sent home from overseas hit nearly $24.8bn last year, more than its oil revenues.

The law Mr Trump wishes to change, as outlined in his memo, is part of the US Patriot Act - he would stop anyone living illegally in the US from sending money overseas.
Just the threat of enacting this would make Mexico "immediately protest," the Trump memo reads, and they would be compelled to pay for the wall.
He also proposed raising visa fees and cancelling visas for Mexicans.



http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-35971035

upon reading it im confused if he's just talking about money by people here illegally or everyone from Mexico.

probably legal; only applies to illegals apparently.

basically, he wants to change the law to say you have to show proof of identity before sending money overseas. his assumption is that illegals dont have proof of identity so it will stop them from doing it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/apps/g/page/politics/memo-explains-how-donald-trump-plans-to-pay-for-border-wall/2007/

the whole plan is batshit insane though.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18846 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-04-05 22:53:49
April 05 2016 22:52 GMT
#71104
cLutZ is being willfully ignorant as to the very obvious fact that any voting ID requirement is going to necessarily come alongside a stronger oversight of state voting procedures; the notion that requiring ID's is somehow going to solve problems is naive, and the notion that requiring ID's is necessary to identify the problems in the voting system puts the cart before the horse in terms of how highly cherished the right to vote is. Further burdening the right to vote in the interest of smoking out issues with voting procedures is an inappropriate way to do things.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
puerk
Profile Joined February 2015
Germany855 Posts
April 05 2016 22:58 GMT
#71105
who cherishes the "right to vote"? certainly there are some... but what i am seeing is that preventing "those people" getting any influence or relief (compared to the suffering billionaire class yearning for a tax cut), takes such a big priority, that voting is a disposable evil
CannonsNCarriers
Profile Joined April 2010
United States638 Posts
April 05 2016 22:59 GMT
#71106
On April 06 2016 07:47 oneofthem wrote:
the corporate media reacts with glee at sanders stumbling

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2016/04/05/9-things-bernie-sanders-shouldve-known-about-but-didnt-in-that-daily-news-interview/


Bernie was revealed to not have a grasp on how to actually take on Wall Street, despite having based his whole campaign around taking on Wall Street. It is not too much to ask that single issue politicians actually have some expertise or concrete plans on how to do something about that issue.
Dun tuch my cheezbrgr
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15733 Posts
April 05 2016 23:00 GMT
#71107
GH, care to weigh in on the Sanders interview?
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22069 Posts
April 05 2016 23:01 GMT
#71108
On April 06 2016 08:00 Mohdoo wrote:
GH, care to weigh in on the Sanders interview?

is banned for 2 days
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15733 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-04-05 23:07:00
April 05 2016 23:03 GMT
#71109
On April 06 2016 08:01 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 06 2016 08:00 Mohdoo wrote:
GH, care to weigh in on the Sanders interview?

is banned for 2 days


Oh. Thanks for the heads up. I got banned a bit ago because I was super drunk and said some anti-trump protesters should be shot. Happens to the best of us I guess, lol <_<
puerk
Profile Joined February 2015
Germany855 Posts
April 05 2016 23:15 GMT
#71110
well i was banned for bit over half a year for (much too snarkily) reminding people about xdaunts views on the superiority of jews over blacks.... (they managed to get over the holocaust while black people don't get over slavery)

if you dont really have a horse in the race (like supporting an actual candidate with your time and money) it should be easy to learn and move on...
Naracs_Duc
Profile Joined August 2015
746 Posts
April 05 2016 23:18 GMT
#71111
On April 06 2016 07:59 CannonsNCarriers wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 06 2016 07:47 oneofthem wrote:
the corporate media reacts with glee at sanders stumbling

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2016/04/05/9-things-bernie-sanders-shouldve-known-about-but-didnt-in-that-daily-news-interview/


Bernie was revealed to not have a grasp on how to actually take on Wall Street, despite having based his whole campaign around taking on Wall Street. It is not too much to ask that single issue politicians actually have some expertise or concrete plans on how to do something about that issue.


In fairness to Bernie, this is what he's sounded like to most Hilary supporters since the second debate. So its not like its surprising.
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-04-05 23:29:37
April 05 2016 23:25 GMT
#71112
While waiting another one and a half hour for the polls to close, 538 started its liveblog.

And on other news, Wikileaks has stopped pretending that it's not a Kremlin stooge:



Edit: third news:


The Panama Papers sent ripples across the globe Monday after revealing that 140 politicians from more than 50 countries, including Russian President Vladimir Putin and Iceland President Sigmundur David Gunnlaugsson, were linked to offshore accounts set up by the Panamanian law firm Mossack Fonseca.
Despite its breadth, the scandal so far has barely touched American individuals and companies. There were no mass protests, as occurred in Iceland where protesters demanded the resignation of Gunnlaugsson; no U.S. leaders were forced to deny accusations of tax evasion as Putin did.
How have Americans so far escaped the biggest leak of financial data of all time? It’s not because wealthy Americans don’t use offshore bank accounts to avoid U.S. taxes: they do—to the tune of $1.2 trillion in 2014, according to one estimate. Some professors have suggested that Americans may have disguised their accounts at Mossack Fonseca behind another party. But there’s also a more structural answer, tax experts say—one that has to do with shifts in global financial policy—and, to an extent, taste.
Tax evasion overall is a far larger problem in developing countries, where norms around paying taxes are weak and rules designed to stop such evasion are ineffective. And when wealthy Americans do want to evade taxes, they turn to Bermuda, or the Cayman Islands, or Singapore. They don’t park their money in Panama.

...

One place Americans can hide assets, though? The United States. Experts point out that it's stable, it's safe, and the laws make it fairly easy to structure your holdings – legally – to keep taxes low.
“Not too surprised,” Zucman wrote in an email about the lack of Americans in the Panama Papers. “Part of the reason is that it’s unfortunately way too easy to create anonymous shell companies in a number of US States like Delaware and Nevada, so no need to go to Panama.” In fact, multiple international organizations rated the U.S. as one of the world’s biggest tax havens last year.


Read more: http://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2016/04/the-panama-papers-where-are-the-americans-000083#ixzz44zvnXgG2
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook

Read more: http://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2016/04/the-panama-papers-where-are-the-americans-000083#ixzz44zvNZppN
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook
Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
April 05 2016 23:47 GMT
#71113
On April 06 2016 07:52 farvacola wrote:
cLutZ is being willfully ignorant as to the very obvious fact that any voting ID requirement is going to necessarily come alongside a stronger oversight of state voting procedures; the notion that requiring ID's is somehow going to solve problems is naive, and the notion that requiring ID's is necessary to identify the problems in the voting system puts the cart before the horse in terms of how highly cherished the right to vote is. Further burdening the right to vote in the interest of smoking out issues with voting procedures is an inappropriate way to do things.


How am I ignorant of that? Lots of states have ID requirements, and they usually have in kind procedures for ID verification (every state has scannable IDs, its simply a matter of updating polling to fit with the times, which I also support).

Also, I said I am perfectly willing to drop the ID idea if the FBI debunks my sincere belief that in person voter fraud absent an ID requirement requires nothing more than a willingness to violate the law + internet access (or a library card).
Freeeeeeedom
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-04-05 23:54:39
April 05 2016 23:49 GMT
#71114
USAID more like USAIDS amirite

tackling corruption is pretty important for development so even if the accusations are true it's still GOOD JOB USAID
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
CannonsNCarriers
Profile Joined April 2010
United States638 Posts
April 05 2016 23:57 GMT
#71115
On April 06 2016 08:00 Mohdoo wrote:
GH, care to weigh in on the Sanders interview?


Other Bernie fans I have seen on Twitter respond with something like:

"Only a Hillary fan would see that as a damning interview. His answers were thoughtful. Seeing ignorance is evidence of the viewer's Hillary bias."
Dun tuch my cheezbrgr
Naracs_Duc
Profile Joined August 2015
746 Posts
April 06 2016 00:06 GMT
#71116
On April 06 2016 08:47 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 06 2016 07:52 farvacola wrote:
cLutZ is being willfully ignorant as to the very obvious fact that any voting ID requirement is going to necessarily come alongside a stronger oversight of state voting procedures; the notion that requiring ID's is somehow going to solve problems is naive, and the notion that requiring ID's is necessary to identify the problems in the voting system puts the cart before the horse in terms of how highly cherished the right to vote is. Further burdening the right to vote in the interest of smoking out issues with voting procedures is an inappropriate way to do things.


How am I ignorant of that? Lots of states have ID requirements, and they usually have in kind procedures for ID verification (every state has scannable IDs, its simply a matter of updating polling to fit with the times, which I also support).

Also, I said I am perfectly willing to drop the ID idea if the FBI debunks my sincere belief that in person voter fraud absent an ID requirement requires nothing more than a willingness to violate the law + internet access (or a library card).


ID laws in the US are, sadly, also immigration reform laws. For the most part there are a lot of residents who, because of their immigration status, do not necessarily have an ID and, because of the way American society talks about/deals with immigrants, are afraid to get an ID.

Conservatives then fight for ID requirements as a way to scare away/deport immigrants. Liberals then fight back by being against ID's in order to defend rights of immigrants to be treated as citizens--with the implicit goal of pushing forward an immigrant reform platform to legalize immigrants.

As such, its almost impossible to discuss a federal mandate of always requiring or never requiring ID's for voting without the discussion becoming one about Immigration reform.
Naracs_Duc
Profile Joined August 2015
746 Posts
April 06 2016 00:07 GMT
#71117
On April 06 2016 08:57 CannonsNCarriers wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 06 2016 08:00 Mohdoo wrote:
GH, care to weigh in on the Sanders interview?


Other Bernie fans I have seen on Twitter respond with something like:

"Only a Hillary fan would see that as a damning interview. His answers were thoughtful. Seeing ignorance is evidence of the viewer's Hillary bias."


Makes sense. They didn't need evidence of his plans before, why would they need it now?
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
April 06 2016 01:01 GMT
#71118
Even as the death penalty grows out of favor in the United States, the number of executions worldwide has risen to its highest level in 25 years, a new report on the death penalty from Amnesty International finds.

The human rights group recorded 1,634 executions in 2015, a number rivaled only by a three-year period beginning in 1988.

James Clark, Amnesty's senior death penalty campaigner, says the numbers can seem a bit misleading because the rise was driven mostly by three countries — Iran, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, which accounted for 89 percent of all executions.

"The spike in executions, particularly in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, leads to this global number that is so much larger than we've ever seen in recent years but that belies the fact that it's happening in such a small number of countries around the world," Clark said.

The global trend, Clark said, is clear: The death penalty is in decline worldwide.

The United States, which executed 28 people in 2015, was for the seventh year in a row the only American country to execute. But lately, the U.S. has significantly curtailed its use of capital punishment.

The U.S. arm of Amnesty International points out: "As of April 1, 2016, a total of 18 U.S. states have abolished or repealed the death penalty, and a total of 9 U.S. states have not conducted an execution in at least a decade — meaning that, for the first time since capital punishment was reinstated in the U.S., a majority of states have halted the death penalty in either policy or practice."

As we've reported, the death penalty has become historically unpopular among American voters and its use is also becoming increasingly rare.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-04-06 01:16:08
April 06 2016 01:14 GMT
#71119
Thanks to the discussion today, I was checking up old resources, and the OECD has published a new food prices outlook:

[image loading]

Read the overview as well

***
Exit polls (via 538):


Exit polls in Wisconsin show Cruz 10 points ahead of Trump. Based on the formula I described earlier, that would point toward an 8- or 9-point win for Cruz when combined with pre-election polls. The margin of error is high enough, though, that while a Cruz win is likely, it isn’t quite certain. Hence, ABC News and other networks aren’t likely to call the race until some actual votes come in.



The same pre-election poll / exit poll blend would have Sanders beating Clinton by 9 percentage points in Wisconsin. Note, however, that the Decision Desk HQ Democratic exit poll is more favorable to Sanders than the one put together by the networks, and suggests he could beat Clinton by double digits.

Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-04-06 01:26:43
April 06 2016 01:20 GMT
#71120
Are you guys fucking kidding me with that Sanders interview? The interviewer was an asshole. What, is Bernie Sanders supposed to literally fucking know everything? Do you think any of the other candidates could continually give answers to those questions? There is no way they could, because you have to be an absolute expert on these topics. Which is why the president HIRES A STAFF OF EXPERTS. I mean, it's not like he's busy or anything. But sure, he should know policy and law inside out regarding every major change he proposes. Why would he do that? Seriously, can someone explain why he should spend all of his time (that he doesn't have) studying the details of these laws so that he can recite them in interviews?


The reality is, Bernie Sanders is the only candidate who won't bullshit and will just say "I don't know" or "I don't know that yet". Just because he isn't able to recite the details of every major change he proposes doesn't mean they aren't possible. WTF, honestly. That's infuriating.



What is with this "we need to know exactly how he's going to do everything he says he wants to do" shit? What is the point of it? What if it's not even possible *at this moment*? Does that change his campaign? No, that doesn't change his campaign at all, because something not being possible right now does not mean it won't be possible in the future.

Like, I understand if you don't agree with his policies or whatever. But critically think rather than being purposely shitty. He doesn't need to be able to recite the details of how everything is possible right now, even if that was feasible. He is proposing huge changes. But people know that, and they attack it because they are trying to be shitty and tear him down.
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