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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
A bipartisan group of governors from 17 states has pledged to accelerate their efforts to create a green economy in the US by boosting renewables, building better electricity grids and cutting emissions from transport.
An accord signed by the governors states that the US must “embrace a bold vision of the nation’s energy future” by reducing emissions, transitioning to clean energy sources and ensuring that infrastructure isn’t risked by extreme weather events such as floods and wildfires.
The agreement sets out commitments to expand renewable energy and energy efficiency and integrate solar and wind generation into electricity grids. These grids will be “modernized”, the accord states, to improve energy reliability.
Companies that offer electric vehicles or vehicles that run on alternative fuels such as hydrogen or natural gas will be provided incentives and help with infrastructure in the 17 states. New standards and benchmarks for energy efficiency and renewables will also be set.
The governors are from California, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Iowa, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, New Hampshire, Nevada, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, Virginia and Washington. These states are home to around 40% of the US population.
Advisers from the states, which include both Democratic and Republican governors, will meet to set out steps towards meeting these promises.
Jerry Brown, the governor of California, a state that emits around 1% of the world’s greenhouse gases, said the accord builds on his administration’s existing policies, including its goal to reduce petroleum use in cars and trucks by up to 50% within the next 15 years.
Source
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On February 17 2016 08:48 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2016 08:26 xDaunt wrote:
Federal student aid (as employed) is one of the worst things to happen in this country. The easy money has resulted in skyrocketing tuition and far more people going to college than have any business doing so. College degrees almost mean dick now. yeah, enabling the poors go to college is devaluing my degree.
It devalued the poor's degrees as well. The system is broken because it assumed that colleges and universities would keep costs on check and not compete with eachother for students and the government backed loans that came with them.
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On February 17 2016 08:48 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2016 08:26 xDaunt wrote:
Federal student aid (as employed) is one of the worst things to happen in this country. The easy money has resulted in skyrocketing tuition and far more people going to college than have any business doing so. College degrees almost mean dick now. yeah, enabling the poors go to college is devaluing my degree.
It depends on what type of degree people are getting....
If you go into STEM fields, there is no way that the skills/knowledge you've gained there will be wasted unless you've slept through everything.
But if you get into other trivial fields such as "social science" and/or "humanities", those fields are volatile because if you solve "social issues", you will be out job. But if you don't solve "social issues", you are not exactly doing your job. Its a very ludicrous field if you know how to play the game right though.
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On February 17 2016 09:28 ErectedZenith wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2016 08:48 Mindcrime wrote:On February 17 2016 08:26 xDaunt wrote:
Federal student aid (as employed) is one of the worst things to happen in this country. The easy money has resulted in skyrocketing tuition and far more people going to college than have any business doing so. College degrees almost mean dick now. yeah, enabling the poors go to college is devaluing my degree. It depends on what type of degree people are getting.... If you go into STEM fields, there is no way that the skills/knowledge you've gained there will be wasted unless you've slept through everything. But if you get into other trivial fields such as "social science" and/or "humanities", those fields are volatile because if you solve "social issues", you will be out job. But if you don't solve "social issues", you are not exactly doing your job. Its a very ludicrous field if you know how to play the game right though.
Lol what is this...I don't even.
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On February 17 2016 09:28 ErectedZenith wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2016 08:48 Mindcrime wrote:On February 17 2016 08:26 xDaunt wrote:
Federal student aid (as employed) is one of the worst things to happen in this country. The easy money has resulted in skyrocketing tuition and far more people going to college than have any business doing so. College degrees almost mean dick now. yeah, enabling the poors go to college is devaluing my degree. It depends on what type of degree people are getting.... If you go into STEM fields, there is no way that the skills/knowledge you've gained there will be wasted unless you've slept through everything. But if you get into other trivial fields such as "social science" and/or "humanities", those fields are volatile because if you solve "social issues", you will be out job. But if you don't solve "social issues", you are not exactly doing your job. Its a very ludicrous field if you know how to play the game right though.
They're less steady because of the positions available ... look at any website that analyzes degrees.
Humanities have their place like any other. The cost to obtain a degree is overcharged compared to the earnings, but so goes colleges and the loan market these days. It's back to the originally quoted post: easy money pushes up tuition in excess of the benefit to the individual.
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On February 17 2016 09:39 Slaughter wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2016 09:28 ErectedZenith wrote:On February 17 2016 08:48 Mindcrime wrote:On February 17 2016 08:26 xDaunt wrote:
Federal student aid (as employed) is one of the worst things to happen in this country. The easy money has resulted in skyrocketing tuition and far more people going to college than have any business doing so. College degrees almost mean dick now. yeah, enabling the poors go to college is devaluing my degree. It depends on what type of degree people are getting.... If you go into STEM fields, there is no way that the skills/knowledge you've gained there will be wasted unless you've slept through everything. But if you get into other trivial fields such as "social science" and/or "humanities", those fields are volatile because if you solve "social issues", you will be out job. But if you don't solve "social issues", you are not exactly doing your job. Its a very ludicrous field if you know how to play the game right though. Lol what is this...I don't even.
He couldn't be a more generic internet Trump supporter if he tried. He just shit on the entire field if literature, psychology, history, urban planning, law, philosophy, all art, film and like everything else. Next thing he will tell us is that Women's Studies is a worthless degree(it a very marketable degree, especially internationally).
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the problem with trying to tackle this on the loan side is that you're effectively locking poor people out of college. Would probably be better to lower the tuition costs.
Why not put a limit on tuition cost?
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On February 17 2016 09:45 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2016 09:28 ErectedZenith wrote:On February 17 2016 08:48 Mindcrime wrote:On February 17 2016 08:26 xDaunt wrote:
Federal student aid (as employed) is one of the worst things to happen in this country. The easy money has resulted in skyrocketing tuition and far more people going to college than have any business doing so. College degrees almost mean dick now. yeah, enabling the poors go to college is devaluing my degree. It depends on what type of degree people are getting.... If you go into STEM fields, there is no way that the skills/knowledge you've gained there will be wasted unless you've slept through everything. But if you get into other trivial fields such as "social science" and/or "humanities", those fields are volatile because if you solve "social issues", you will be out job. But if you don't solve "social issues", you are not exactly doing your job. Its a very ludicrous field if you know how to play the game right though. They're less steady because of the positions available ... look at any website that analyzes degrees. Humanities have their place like any other. The cost to obtain a degree is overcharged compared to the earnings, but so goes colleges and the loan market these days. It's back to the originally quoted post: easy money pushes up tuition in excess of the benefit to the individual.
Since the government is "subsiding" the education system with loans they should have a say in the tuition price. It is that way over here aswell.
A well educated population is in everyone's interest.
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What do our German, French, and those from the Netherlands posters think of their devalued degrees, since any poor person can afford one there?
Totally collapsed your educational system right?
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
There's a remarkable tendency in the US to solve problems that capitalism clearly isn't meant for (large positive externality ventures such as medicine and education) with this magical panacea called the free market. Problem is that "the free market" maximizes profit rather than social welfare.
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The main problem the is the typical half assed America system where people want the government involved, but are super scared of the government making decisions. So its free money on the free market of college, which little concern for the price of the college vs potential earnings. Schools don't want limited tuition because they will say "one size can't fit all" and students are market the Animal House version of college.
Everyone agrees that an educated population is good, but can't accept that the "free market' can provide us with heavy oversight. So we have 80K undergrad degrees that require a masters too really get into the field.
On February 17 2016 09:50 GreenHorizons wrote:
What do our German, French, and those from the Netherlands posters think of their devalued degrees, since any poor person can afford one there?
Totally collapsed your educational system right?
The difference with them is that their requirements to attend are higher and they spend money on other forms of work training, aka, the trades. Its college for bust in the US, because we don't train plumbers or meter workers.
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On February 17 2016 09:53 LegalLord wrote:
There's a remarkable tendency in the US to solve problems that capitalism clearly isn't meant for (large positive externality ventures such as medicine and education) with this magical panacea called the free market. Problem is that "the free market" maximizes profit rather than social welfare.
There's a pleasant myth about informed rational self interested consumers and an invisible hand that wraps all that up nicely. Of course, unless you're still waiting for Christmas presents from Santa, you've probably stopped holding you breath for some invisible hand to fix it too.
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Well educated is subjective. Our schools suck so much while our HS kids are learning geometry (and sucking at it) kids from India have finished their primary education and are pursuing more advanced endeavors.
Universities these days are damn expensive. If the goal is purely education, they do not need to go to a 4 year university. It is a waste of time and money for many people who lack both curiosity and ambition. What these people need is a job. That's the #1 priority. A job with prospect of growth. So rather than university, a technical education (a few months to an year, or on the job training) subsidized by the state would go a lot farther for improving our society.
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On February 17 2016 09:50 GreenHorizons wrote:
What do our German, French, and those from the Netherlands posters think of their devalued degrees, since any poor person can afford one there?
Totally collapsed your educational system right?
well it's not like there's unlimited amounts of spots in universities. There's bound to be some regulation as to who gets in and who doesn't. We just have a numerus clausus and if you try to study law/medicine with an average of 4.0 from highschool (literally worst thing you can get without failing) you're bound to have to wait for a long time until you get in.
I don't really see a problem with it being the way it is. You can always choose something without numerus clausus if you want to. You can pretty much get into some of the best universities over here with a 4.0 as long as you're willing to do maths as a b.sc or something like that. And if you really want to study law... got to study in highschool and get some good grades.
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United States42693 Posts
On February 17 2016 09:39 Slaughter wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2016 09:28 ErectedZenith wrote:On February 17 2016 08:48 Mindcrime wrote:On February 17 2016 08:26 xDaunt wrote:
Federal student aid (as employed) is one of the worst things to happen in this country. The easy money has resulted in skyrocketing tuition and far more people going to college than have any business doing so. College degrees almost mean dick now. yeah, enabling the poors go to college is devaluing my degree. It depends on what type of degree people are getting.... If you go into STEM fields, there is no way that the skills/knowledge you've gained there will be wasted unless you've slept through everything. But if you get into other trivial fields such as "social science" and/or "humanities", those fields are volatile because if you solve "social issues", you will be out job. But if you don't solve "social issues", you are not exactly doing your job. Its a very ludicrous field if you know how to play the game right though. Lol what is this...I don't even.
A wild Trump supporter.
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On February 17 2016 09:58 Deathstar wrote:
Well educated is subjective. Our schools suck so much while our HS kids are learning geometry (and sucking at it) kids from India are already learning calculus.
Universities these days are damn expensive. If the goal is purely education, they do not need to go to a 4 year university. It is a waste of time and money for many people who lack both curiosity and ambition. What these people need is a job. That's the #1 priority. A job with prospect of growth. So rather than university, a technical education (a few months to an year, or on the job training) subsidized by the state would go a lot farther for improving our society.
But if they don't go to school for 4 years, how can the school get 4 years worth of tuition out of them? Or create programs that it is almost impossible to get a degree in 4 years? They need those federally backed loan dollars to keep the school open to provide people with degrees!
The problem with educations in the US is that there is always a college that is will to accept you and your potential student loans. Always a place willing to train you for something. And they advertise all the time, plugging federal aid at the end of every ad. The free market provides....unlimited ways to obtain debt.
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ive brought this anecdote up before, once i had the chance to ask my university president a question about why tuition was going up and he said "well we have to keep up with other colleges but we give out more aid so its ok". then i pointed out that i was gonna be paying 3K more next year. it was awkward.
if it weren't for the large hole in my pocket it would be amusing.
edit: i also definitely learned calculus in high school... along with geometry. :/
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United States42693 Posts
With grad school a good rule of thumb might be that if nobody is willing to pay for you to do it you shouldn't be doing it.
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I thought universities in the US were generally not for-profit (despite being private). It would be strange to expect a free-market approach to work when universities seek out a multitude of non-monetary objetives, reputation being probably the biggest one.
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On February 17 2016 10:07 ticklishmusic wrote:
ive brought this anecdote up before, once i had the chance to ask my university president a question about why tuition was going up and he said "well we have to keep up with other colleges but we give out more aid so its ok". then i pointed out that i was gonna be paying 3K more next year. it was awkward.
if it weren't for the large hole in my pocket it would be amusing.
edit: i also definitely learned calculus in high school... along with geometry. :/
What does that even mean "we have to keep up". Why does your price need to go up when another raises his.
That's like the opposite of how the market should work.
Seriously, what does it mean?
(and no, education shouldn't even be a market).
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EPT
