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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 2800

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-28 22:46:33
January 28 2016 22:45 GMT
#55981
On January 29 2016 07:42 xDaunt wrote:
Uncritical literalism is the language of the retarded. C'mon, people. Pointing at what's written on the Statute of Liberty is not the basis for sane immigration policy.


I think the important part is keeping the original spirit alive, which I guess is all about letting people in who genuinely search a better life and not just rich kids or people with a three PhDs. I don't think anybody expects a single nation to help every poor person on the planet, but this whole anti-immigrant talk that comes from Trump and the likes actually sounds like something that you'd expect to hear here from the far-right on the European continent, but not from the US.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
January 28 2016 22:51 GMT
#55982
A human study of Zika virus vaccine could begin as early as this year, U.S. health officials told reporters Thursday.

But the officials cautioned that it could be years before the vaccine is available for wide use.

The news came as the Zika virus continues to spread through the Americas. Still, a large outbreak is seen as unlikely in the U.S.

"There's still a lot we don't know, so we have to be very careful about making any absolute predictions," says Dr. Anthony Fauci, head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases. In a briefing for reporters, he added that "we still feel it's unlikely ... we'll see wide-scale outbreaks."

That's because the U.S. has seen only limited spread of two similar viruses, dengue and chikungunya, which are also carried by mosquitoes. They have spread widely in nearby countries but mostly appear sporadically in the U.S., mainly when travelers get them abroad and return home.

Nevertheless, the National Institutes of Health and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention are launching an intense effort to combat Zika, officials said.

The CDC is now requiring all states to report any travelers who bring the virus into the country, says Dr. Anne Schuchat, the agency's principal deputy director.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States5823 Posts
January 28 2016 23:03 GMT
#55983
On January 29 2016 07:45 Nyxisto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2016 07:42 xDaunt wrote:
Uncritical literalism is the language of the retarded. C'mon, people. Pointing at what's written on the Statute of Liberty is not the basis for sane immigration policy.


I think the important part is keeping the original spirit alive, which I guess is all about letting people in who genuinely search a better life and not just rich kids or people with a three PhDs. I don't think anybody expects a single nation to help every poor person on the planet, but this whole anti-immigrant talk that comes from Trump and the likes actually sounds like something that you'd expect to hear here from the far-right on the European continent, but not from the US.

I think if you actually dissect the language used by Trump and others (mainly referring to people following his lead in the campaign), the focus is illegal immigration. I agree with xDaunt that inscriptions on national monuments might not be the best source for policy specifics in the here and now.
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23583 Posts
January 28 2016 23:07 GMT
#55984
On January 29 2016 07:36 Deathstar wrote:
We are open to poor people immigrating here. That doesn't mean it's open season for all poor people in this world to get into the US. You really want to let in millions, if not billions, of poor people into the US just because they want to? Use your head.


I'm saying if we limit it to people who have thousands of dollars and the ability to sustain without work or social nets we are effectively making poor immigrants = "illegal" immigrants.

I'm not saying we can't have limits at all.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
January 28 2016 23:10 GMT
#55985
One of the last holdouts in the armed takeover of an Oregon wildlife refuge said Thursday that the handful of occupiers who remain will leave if they receive assurances none of them will be arrested.

In a video posted on the YouTube channel "DefendYourBase" that the group has been using to issue updates during the nearly 4-week-old siege, a speaker believed to be David Fry said the occupiers have been told by authorities that "out of five people left here, four of us are allowed to leave."

The FBI had no immediate comment on the demand. It has said only that it is trying to "empty the refuge of the armed occupiers in the safest way possible."

Eight members of the armed anti-government group were arrested Tuesday and three more on Wednesday. Their jailed leader on Wednesday urged the remaining militants to abandon the Oregon wildlife refuge they have occupied for more than three weeks and where they are now surrounded by federal agents.

After leader Ammon Bundy made his first court appearance in Portland on Wednesday, his attorney, Mike Arnold, read this statement from his client: “Please stand down. Go home and hug your families. This fight is now in the courts.” Bundy also urged federal authorities to let his comrades leave the compound without being prosecuted.

On Wednesday evening, the FBI and Oregon State Police issued a statement saying they had arrested Duane Leo Ehmer, 45, and Dylan Wade Anderson, 34, around 3:30 p.m. A few hours later, 43-year-old Jason S. Patrick of Bonaire, Georgia, was arrested. The FBI said the men turned themselves in to agents at a checkpoint on a road near the refuge.

As with Bundy and the seven others arrested a day earlier, officials said the men will each face a felony charge.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
January 28 2016 23:20 GMT
#55986
On January 29 2016 08:10 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
One of the last holdouts in the armed takeover of an Oregon wildlife refuge said Thursday that the handful of occupiers who remain will leave if they receive assurances none of them will be arrested.

In a video posted on the YouTube channel "DefendYourBase" that the group has been using to issue updates during the nearly 4-week-old siege, a speaker believed to be David Fry said the occupiers have been told by authorities that "out of five people left here, four of us are allowed to leave."

The FBI had no immediate comment on the demand. It has said only that it is trying to "empty the refuge of the armed occupiers in the safest way possible."

Eight members of the armed anti-government group were arrested Tuesday and three more on Wednesday. Their jailed leader on Wednesday urged the remaining militants to abandon the Oregon wildlife refuge they have occupied for more than three weeks and where they are now surrounded by federal agents.

After leader Ammon Bundy made his first court appearance in Portland on Wednesday, his attorney, Mike Arnold, read this statement from his client: “Please stand down. Go home and hug your families. This fight is now in the courts.” Bundy also urged federal authorities to let his comrades leave the compound without being prosecuted.

On Wednesday evening, the FBI and Oregon State Police issued a statement saying they had arrested Duane Leo Ehmer, 45, and Dylan Wade Anderson, 34, around 3:30 p.m. A few hours later, 43-year-old Jason S. Patrick of Bonaire, Georgia, was arrested. The FBI said the men turned themselves in to agents at a checkpoint on a road near the refuge.

As with Bundy and the seven others arrested a day earlier, officials said the men will each face a felony charge.


Source


On a slightly related note, I'm sad Al Jazeera America is going out of business.

I found this gem in the comments section:
They better leave before it's migration season and a couple thousand potentially cranky, highly bird-sensitive Audubon Society members descend on the place, and make them look like kids out of control at a picnic.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-28 23:25:43
January 28 2016 23:25 GMT
#55987
On January 29 2016 08:03 oBlade wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2016 07:45 Nyxisto wrote:
On January 29 2016 07:42 xDaunt wrote:
Uncritical literalism is the language of the retarded. C'mon, people. Pointing at what's written on the Statute of Liberty is not the basis for sane immigration policy.


I think the important part is keeping the original spirit alive, which I guess is all about letting people in who genuinely search a better life and not just rich kids or people with a three PhDs. I don't think anybody expects a single nation to help every poor person on the planet, but this whole anti-immigrant talk that comes from Trump and the likes actually sounds like something that you'd expect to hear here from the far-right on the European continent, but not from the US.

I think if you actually dissect the language used by Trump and others (mainly referring to people following his lead in the campaign), the focus is illegal immigration. I agree with xDaunt that inscriptions on national monuments might not be the best source for policy specifics in the here and now.

And straight up racism. Lets not forget the racism when he talks about immigration. It is a critical part of his base and what they are interested in on that topic. You don't get endorsed by white supremacists without solid racism.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-28 23:26:17
January 28 2016 23:25 GMT
#55988
On January 29 2016 08:03 oBlade wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2016 07:45 Nyxisto wrote:
On January 29 2016 07:42 xDaunt wrote:
Uncritical literalism is the language of the retarded. C'mon, people. Pointing at what's written on the Statute of Liberty is not the basis for sane immigration policy.


I think the important part is keeping the original spirit alive, which I guess is all about letting people in who genuinely search a better life and not just rich kids or people with a three PhDs. I don't think anybody expects a single nation to help every poor person on the planet, but this whole anti-immigrant talk that comes from Trump and the likes actually sounds like something that you'd expect to hear here from the far-right on the European continent, but not from the US.

I think if you actually dissect the language used by Trump and others (mainly referring to people following his lead in the campaign), the focus is illegal immigration. I agree with xDaunt that inscriptions on national monuments might not be the best source for policy specifics in the here and now.

Has there been any talk about reforming current immigration law? As far as I know, Trump has been pretty adamant about kicking out "illegals" (and Muslims) and only doing reform "after" that's done...
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22056 Posts
January 28 2016 23:26 GMT
#55989
On January 29 2016 08:10 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
One of the last holdouts in the armed takeover of an Oregon wildlife refuge said Thursday that the handful of occupiers who remain will leave if they receive assurances none of them will be arrested.

In a video posted on the YouTube channel "DefendYourBase" that the group has been using to issue updates during the nearly 4-week-old siege, a speaker believed to be David Fry said the occupiers have been told by authorities that "out of five people left here, four of us are allowed to leave."

The FBI had no immediate comment on the demand. It has said only that it is trying to "empty the refuge of the armed occupiers in the safest way possible."

Eight members of the armed anti-government group were arrested Tuesday and three more on Wednesday. Their jailed leader on Wednesday urged the remaining militants to abandon the Oregon wildlife refuge they have occupied for more than three weeks and where they are now surrounded by federal agents.

After leader Ammon Bundy made his first court appearance in Portland on Wednesday, his attorney, Mike Arnold, read this statement from his client: “Please stand down. Go home and hug your families. This fight is now in the courts.” Bundy also urged federal authorities to let his comrades leave the compound without being prosecuted.

On Wednesday evening, the FBI and Oregon State Police issued a statement saying they had arrested Duane Leo Ehmer, 45, and Dylan Wade Anderson, 34, around 3:30 p.m. A few hours later, 43-year-old Jason S. Patrick of Bonaire, Georgia, was arrested. The FBI said the men turned themselves in to agents at a checkpoint on a road near the refuge.

As with Bundy and the seven others arrested a day earlier, officials said the men will each face a felony charge.


Source

Worth noting that one of those remaining inside has a warrant on him. Hence why he is not allowed to leave and the remainder wanting assurances they are all allowed to go.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23583 Posts
January 28 2016 23:31 GMT
#55990
On January 29 2016 08:10 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
One of the last holdouts in the armed takeover of an Oregon wildlife refuge said Thursday that the handful of occupiers who remain will leave if they receive assurances none of them will be arrested.

In a video posted on the YouTube channel "DefendYourBase" that the group has been using to issue updates during the nearly 4-week-old siege, a speaker believed to be David Fry said the occupiers have been told by authorities that "out of five people left here, four of us are allowed to leave."

The FBI had no immediate comment on the demand. It has said only that it is trying to "empty the refuge of the armed occupiers in the safest way possible."

Eight members of the armed anti-government group were arrested Tuesday and three more on Wednesday. Their jailed leader on Wednesday urged the remaining militants to abandon the Oregon wildlife refuge they have occupied for more than three weeks and where they are now surrounded by federal agents.

After leader Ammon Bundy made his first court appearance in Portland on Wednesday, his attorney, Mike Arnold, read this statement from his client: “Please stand down. Go home and hug your families. This fight is now in the courts.” Bundy also urged federal authorities to let his comrades leave the compound without being prosecuted.

On Wednesday evening, the FBI and Oregon State Police issued a statement saying they had arrested Duane Leo Ehmer, 45, and Dylan Wade Anderson, 34, around 3:30 p.m. A few hours later, 43-year-old Jason S. Patrick of Bonaire, Georgia, was arrested. The FBI said the men turned themselves in to agents at a checkpoint on a road near the refuge.

As with Bundy and the seven others arrested a day earlier, officials said the men will each face a felony charge.


Source


They'll probably get off lighter than they should but when they have to sell their gun collections (felons) and use the money to pay fines for the expenses incurred as a result of their stupidity they'll think they got the book thrown at them.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18193 Posts
January 28 2016 23:58 GMT
#55991
On January 29 2016 07:45 Nyxisto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2016 07:42 xDaunt wrote:
Uncritical literalism is the language of the retarded. C'mon, people. Pointing at what's written on the Statute of Liberty is not the basis for sane immigration policy.


I think the important part is keeping the original spirit alive, which I guess is all about letting people in who genuinely search a better life and not just rich kids or people with a three PhDs. I don't think anybody expects a single nation to help every poor person on the planet, but this whole anti-immigrant talk that comes from Trump and the likes actually sounds like something that you'd expect to hear here from the far-right on the European continent, but not from the US.

Judging from what it took me to get even one PhD, I think you can safely take in someone with three if your only criteria is that they want a better life.

Although maybe not. Three PhDs probably means they are complete masochist.
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States5823 Posts
January 29 2016 00:00 GMT
#55992
On January 29 2016 08:25 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2016 08:03 oBlade wrote:
On January 29 2016 07:45 Nyxisto wrote:
On January 29 2016 07:42 xDaunt wrote:
Uncritical literalism is the language of the retarded. C'mon, people. Pointing at what's written on the Statute of Liberty is not the basis for sane immigration policy.


I think the important part is keeping the original spirit alive, which I guess is all about letting people in who genuinely search a better life and not just rich kids or people with a three PhDs. I don't think anybody expects a single nation to help every poor person on the planet, but this whole anti-immigrant talk that comes from Trump and the likes actually sounds like something that you'd expect to hear here from the far-right on the European continent, but not from the US.

I think if you actually dissect the language used by Trump and others (mainly referring to people following his lead in the campaign), the focus is illegal immigration. I agree with xDaunt that inscriptions on national monuments might not be the best source for policy specifics in the here and now.

And straight up racism. Lets not forget the racism when he talks about immigration. It is a critical part of his base and what they are interested in on that topic. You don't get endorsed by white supremacists without solid racism.

No, that's what I'm saying - I've been listening to the candidates' own words for months, and don't see that the constant peltings of Trump with names like "racist" and "bigot" hold any water. And I don't know what "endorsement" you're alluding to, but I'm prepared to say that characterizing a white supremacist's opinion as an "endorsement," when they have in our society about as much reach as a psychotic person shouting at cars from a highway overpass, is a mistake.
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18193 Posts
January 29 2016 00:01 GMT
#55993
On January 29 2016 07:51 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
A human study of Zika virus vaccine could begin as early as this year, U.S. health officials told reporters Thursday.

But the officials cautioned that it could be years before the vaccine is available for wide use.

The news came as the Zika virus continues to spread through the Americas. Still, a large outbreak is seen as unlikely in the U.S.

"There's still a lot we don't know, so we have to be very careful about making any absolute predictions," says Dr. Anthony Fauci, head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases. In a briefing for reporters, he added that "we still feel it's unlikely ... we'll see wide-scale outbreaks."

That's because the U.S. has seen only limited spread of two similar viruses, dengue and chikungunya, which are also carried by mosquitoes. They have spread widely in nearby countries but mostly appear sporadically in the U.S., mainly when travelers get them abroad and return home.

Nevertheless, the National Institutes of Health and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention are launching an intense effort to combat Zika, officials said.

The CDC is now requiring all states to report any travelers who bring the virus into the country, says Dr. Anne Schuchat, the agency's principal deputy director.


Source

Given that most ppl infected show mild or no symptoms at all, how is a state even supposed to know about all the people who bring the zika virus in?
Livelovedie
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States492 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-29 00:08:11
January 29 2016 00:03 GMT
#55994
If the skills necessary for the labor market aren't being met by the population, corporate america needs to do its share in investing in its workforce. We should either let in both or neither. If we accept the argument that unskilled workers drive down wages for unskilled americans then we also must accept that the same occurs for higher skilled workers.

The whole STEM worker shortage
http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/03/the-myth-of-the-science-and-engineering-shortage/284359/
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23583 Posts
January 29 2016 00:09 GMT
#55995
On January 29 2016 09:00 oBlade wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2016 08:25 Plansix wrote:
On January 29 2016 08:03 oBlade wrote:
On January 29 2016 07:45 Nyxisto wrote:
On January 29 2016 07:42 xDaunt wrote:
Uncritical literalism is the language of the retarded. C'mon, people. Pointing at what's written on the Statute of Liberty is not the basis for sane immigration policy.


I think the important part is keeping the original spirit alive, which I guess is all about letting people in who genuinely search a better life and not just rich kids or people with a three PhDs. I don't think anybody expects a single nation to help every poor person on the planet, but this whole anti-immigrant talk that comes from Trump and the likes actually sounds like something that you'd expect to hear here from the far-right on the European continent, but not from the US.

I think if you actually dissect the language used by Trump and others (mainly referring to people following his lead in the campaign), the focus is illegal immigration. I agree with xDaunt that inscriptions on national monuments might not be the best source for policy specifics in the here and now.

And straight up racism. Lets not forget the racism when he talks about immigration. It is a critical part of his base and what they are interested in on that topic. You don't get endorsed by white supremacists without solid racism.

No, that's what I'm saying - I've been listening to the candidates' own words for months, and don't see that the constant peltings of Trump with names like "racist" and "bigot" hold any water. And I don't know what "endorsement" you're alluding to, but I'm prepared to say that characterizing a white supremacist's opinion as an "endorsement," when they have in our society about as much reach as a psychotic person shouting at cars from a highway overpass, is a mistake.


Yup the white supremacist that massacred innocent people at a church in South Carolina and the bigots who influenced him, no big deal.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States5823 Posts
January 29 2016 00:26 GMT
#55996
On January 29 2016 09:09 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2016 09:00 oBlade wrote:
On January 29 2016 08:25 Plansix wrote:
On January 29 2016 08:03 oBlade wrote:
On January 29 2016 07:45 Nyxisto wrote:
On January 29 2016 07:42 xDaunt wrote:
Uncritical literalism is the language of the retarded. C'mon, people. Pointing at what's written on the Statute of Liberty is not the basis for sane immigration policy.


I think the important part is keeping the original spirit alive, which I guess is all about letting people in who genuinely search a better life and not just rich kids or people with a three PhDs. I don't think anybody expects a single nation to help every poor person on the planet, but this whole anti-immigrant talk that comes from Trump and the likes actually sounds like something that you'd expect to hear here from the far-right on the European continent, but not from the US.

I think if you actually dissect the language used by Trump and others (mainly referring to people following his lead in the campaign), the focus is illegal immigration. I agree with xDaunt that inscriptions on national monuments might not be the best source for policy specifics in the here and now.

And straight up racism. Lets not forget the racism when he talks about immigration. It is a critical part of his base and what they are interested in on that topic. You don't get endorsed by white supremacists without solid racism.

No, that's what I'm saying - I've been listening to the candidates' own words for months, and don't see that the constant peltings of Trump with names like "racist" and "bigot" hold any water. And I don't know what "endorsement" you're alluding to, but I'm prepared to say that characterizing a white supremacist's opinion as an "endorsement," when they have in our society about as much reach as a psychotic person shouting at cars from a highway overpass, is a mistake.


Yup the white supremacist that massacred innocent people at a church in South Carolina and the bigots who influenced him, no big deal.

What point was in your mind when you wrote this, and how do you think it's connected to my last post?
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
January 29 2016 00:31 GMT
#55997
On January 29 2016 09:03 Livelovedie wrote:
If the skills necessary for the labor market aren't being met by the population, corporate america needs to do its share in investing in its workforce. We should either let in both or neither. If we accept the argument that unskilled workers drive down wages for unskilled americans then we also must accept that the same occurs for higher skilled workers.

The whole STEM worker shortage
http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/03/the-myth-of-the-science-and-engineering-shortage/284359/

The primary reason it erodes wages and employment of low skilled workers is because they either do the same work or they don't work at all. Sometimes they come with additional skills the low/no skill workers don't, like low levels of bilingual proficiency.

For tech (and higher skills in general), there is such large demand that basically the only jobs that get filled are ones that are so desperately needed that they are paid a premium or they are filled by companies with more money than they know what to do with (also paid a premium). I know some people that would LOVE to hire somebody that can handle IT and be a cashier/stocker, but simply can't afford to shell out $60k+ to fill that position, and can't find somebody to do it part-time for $30k.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
January 29 2016 00:34 GMT
#55998
On January 29 2016 07:45 Nyxisto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2016 07:42 xDaunt wrote:
Uncritical literalism is the language of the retarded. C'mon, people. Pointing at what's written on the Statute of Liberty is not the basis for sane immigration policy.


I think the important part is keeping the original spirit alive, which I guess is all about letting people in who genuinely search a better life and not just rich kids or people with a three PhDs. I don't think anybody expects a single nation to help every poor person on the planet, but this whole anti-immigrant talk that comes from Trump and the likes actually sounds like something that you'd expect to hear here from the far-right on the European continent, but not from the US.

If you're talking original spirit, let's look past the vapid political drivel. If the best you can come up with is the battle between hard working immigrants and elitists that only want to import PhDs, or the implicit Trump anti-immigrant vs moderates pro-immigrant, then you might be better off keeping the original spirit dead and replacing it with the modern spirit of trite bumper sticker slogans and demagogic simplisms.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23583 Posts
January 29 2016 00:48 GMT
#55999
On January 29 2016 09:26 oBlade wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2016 09:09 GreenHorizons wrote:
On January 29 2016 09:00 oBlade wrote:
On January 29 2016 08:25 Plansix wrote:
On January 29 2016 08:03 oBlade wrote:
On January 29 2016 07:45 Nyxisto wrote:
On January 29 2016 07:42 xDaunt wrote:
Uncritical literalism is the language of the retarded. C'mon, people. Pointing at what's written on the Statute of Liberty is not the basis for sane immigration policy.


I think the important part is keeping the original spirit alive, which I guess is all about letting people in who genuinely search a better life and not just rich kids or people with a three PhDs. I don't think anybody expects a single nation to help every poor person on the planet, but this whole anti-immigrant talk that comes from Trump and the likes actually sounds like something that you'd expect to hear here from the far-right on the European continent, but not from the US.

I think if you actually dissect the language used by Trump and others (mainly referring to people following his lead in the campaign), the focus is illegal immigration. I agree with xDaunt that inscriptions on national monuments might not be the best source for policy specifics in the here and now.

And straight up racism. Lets not forget the racism when he talks about immigration. It is a critical part of his base and what they are interested in on that topic. You don't get endorsed by white supremacists without solid racism.

No, that's what I'm saying - I've been listening to the candidates' own words for months, and don't see that the constant peltings of Trump with names like "racist" and "bigot" hold any water. And I don't know what "endorsement" you're alluding to, but I'm prepared to say that characterizing a white supremacist's opinion as an "endorsement," when they have in our society about as much reach as a psychotic person shouting at cars from a highway overpass, is a mistake.


Yup the white supremacist that massacred innocent people at a church in South Carolina and the bigots who influenced him, no big deal.

What point was in your mind when you wrote this, and how do you think it's connected to my last post?


And I don't know what "endorsement" you're alluding to, but I'm prepared to say that characterizing a white supremacist's opinion as an "endorsement," when they have in our society about as much reach as a psychotic person shouting at cars from a highway overpass, is a mistake.



Trump's been endorsed by the former grand wizard of the KKK, several white supremacist groups and one group is even making robocalls for him.

One supremacist group in particular the "Council of Conservative Citizens" helped influence a white supremacist to go into a church and slaughter 9 people including a pastor. Meanwhile you are dismissing their influence as being akin to some whackjob yelling at traffic. Besides being crass, it's wrong.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
January 29 2016 00:49 GMT
#56000
On January 29 2016 09:00 oBlade wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2016 08:25 Plansix wrote:
On January 29 2016 08:03 oBlade wrote:
On January 29 2016 07:45 Nyxisto wrote:
On January 29 2016 07:42 xDaunt wrote:
Uncritical literalism is the language of the retarded. C'mon, people. Pointing at what's written on the Statute of Liberty is not the basis for sane immigration policy.


I think the important part is keeping the original spirit alive, which I guess is all about letting people in who genuinely search a better life and not just rich kids or people with a three PhDs. I don't think anybody expects a single nation to help every poor person on the planet, but this whole anti-immigrant talk that comes from Trump and the likes actually sounds like something that you'd expect to hear here from the far-right on the European continent, but not from the US.

I think if you actually dissect the language used by Trump and others (mainly referring to people following his lead in the campaign), the focus is illegal immigration. I agree with xDaunt that inscriptions on national monuments might not be the best source for policy specifics in the here and now.

And straight up racism. Lets not forget the racism when he talks about immigration. It is a critical part of his base and what they are interested in on that topic. You don't get endorsed by white supremacists without solid racism.

No, that's what I'm saying - I've been listening to the candidates' own words for months, and don't see that the constant peltings of Trump with names like "racist" and "bigot" hold any water. And I don't know what "endorsement" you're alluding to, but I'm prepared to say that characterizing a white supremacist's opinion as an "endorsement," when they have in our society about as much reach as a psychotic person shouting at cars from a highway overpass, is a mistake.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/12/21/how-donald-trump-is-breathing-life-into-americas-dying-white-supremacist-movement/

People have been talking about this for a while now, but I guess some folks missed it.

The same rhetoric that frightens critics (“Trump has really lifted the lid off a Pandora’s box of real hatred and directed it at Muslims,” said the Southern Poverty Law Center’s Mark Potok) draws praise from supporters such as former Louisiana politician and KKK Grand Wizard David Duke.

Duke told The Post that while he has not officially endorsed Trump, he considers the candidate to be the “best of the lot” at the moment.

“I think a lot of what he says resonates with me,” Duke said.


And the thing is Trump does nothing to distance himself from this or denounce it. Literally nothing.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/10/how-does-a-white-supremacist-see-america-today.html#

This is back from October:

What do you think of Donald Trump?
He resonates with many of our people, of course — and with white, middle America, which has been seething for many years now about the immigration issue. It’s been ready to boil over for a long time. Trump stumbled onto this issue and he’s benefiting from that. It inspires a lot of people, including a lot of our own people. I don’t know how far he’ll go, and I don’t know, if he were elected, if he really would follow through on his promise. But he’s definitely been a major boost for us.

Do you vote?
If there’s someone to vote for. So, rarely.

And are you going to vote for Donald Trump?
Yeah. Though I don’t know if he’ll get past the Florida primary. With the other candidates, they offer nothing, which is the reason Trump has gone [over] well — he’s at least taken a stand.


The super racist, terrible section of the US think Trump is great. And Trump, liking the attention from even members of the KKK, is more than happy to take their support. And point out that Putin is a really good leader.
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