EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 2694
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On December 24 2015 03:23 Plansix wrote: I said it before in this thread, that man will say anything to get power and be put in office, while have zero respect for the political system. Cruz? Honestly, would not surprise me if he was an atheist, lol | ||
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Cowboy64
115 Posts
On December 23 2015 22:50 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Why? Just because he might eventually dial his bigotry down a bit doesn't mean he'll suddenly start having good political ideas. While his racist and sexist comments have somehow made him appealing to some people, they've also been instrumental in hiding the fact that he has nothing of any political substance to say. So if he's not mouthing off about women and Muslims and Mexicans and everyone else, all he's got left is "herp derp build a wall". You know, this might come as a shock to all of you, but there are people in the United States who have different politics than you. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46704 Posts
On December 24 2015 03:58 Cowboy64 wrote: You know, this might come as a shock to all of you, but there are people in the United States who have different politics than you. That's not a logical response to anything we've been saying about Trump's pivot, nor why he'd magically be very strong in swing states. The people who want Trump to build a wall between Mexico and the United States are already voting for him; he's not going to pick up swing states and new votes by spouting the same nonsense. | ||
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IgnE
United States7684 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22703 Posts
On December 24 2015 04:09 IgnE wrote: Everyone saying Trump can't pivot seems to be operating under the assumption that he's a hardline conservative. He can pivot precisely because he isn't. His positions on healthcare, infrastructure, reproductive rights, gay rights, whatever are easy to pivot to. "I said X to please them, I'm now saying Y to please you. No one knows what I'm actually going to believe when I'm elected" is not a good message to run on and I refuse to believe people will buy it. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On December 24 2015 04:09 IgnE wrote: Everyone saying Trump can't pivot seems to be operating under the assumption that he's a hardline conservative. He can pivot precisely because he isn't. His positions on healthcare, infrastructure, reproductive rights, gay rights, whatever are easy to pivot to. But his current voter-base is hardcore conservative, nationalist populist even. Why would a liberal suddenly vote for Trump? | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On December 24 2015 04:28 Nyxisto wrote: But his current voter-base is hardcore conservative, nationalist populist even. Why would a liberal suddenly vote for Trump? Maybe if all progressives and independents become really stupid all at once while also forgetting the last year of news coverage? Trump can be elected if the population of the US votes in a fashion that would have elected Romney. | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
On December 24 2015 04:09 IgnE wrote: Everyone saying Trump can't pivot seems to be operating under the assumption that he's a hardline conservative. He can pivot precisely because he isn't. His positions on healthcare, infrastructure, reproductive rights, gay rights, whatever are easy to pivot to. Except all of those positions are already held by the liberal candidates. If you're a moderate, and you believe in all of Trump's "pivot" positions, but loathe all his old positions...why on earth would you vote for him over Clinton? Pivoting to the middle only works if your pivoted positions are not held by the opposition party or your old positions are favored by the majority. Or you can completely dial down your old positions...but then the base doesn't like it and you get called a RINO when you inevitably underperform. In Romney's case, the ideal pivot would have been "I designed Romneycare, which was even better than what Obama came up with and more palatable to liberals and moderates and conservatives alike." Or "I ran a blue state and worked hard with the Democratic legislature, better than Obama has worked with a Republican congress." Those make him better than Obama at things Obama claims to want. But he couldn't say that due to his base. The only pivoting Trump can do is say "Oh, I agree with Clinton on all these things despite having no real history of facilitating them or assisting them and no experience in lawmaking and having displayed a consistent lack of understanding of policy. And, uh, forget all that crazy stuff I said to get the nomination and all that insulting I did." | ||
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Introvert
United States5093 Posts
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Cowboy64
115 Posts
On December 24 2015 04:04 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: That's not a logical response to anything we've been saying about Trump's pivot, nor why he'd magically be very strong in swing states. The people who want Trump to build a wall between Mexico and the United States are already voting for him; he's not going to pick up swing states and new votes by spouting the same nonsense. I would posit that very few people believe Trump's comments have been either racist or sexist. And I think most people can understand that it's a lie to say he hasn't been specific. On his web-page, for everyone to see and read, are some very specific policy proposals. Most people try to ignore them (left and right) because the narrative is that Trump is 1) not specific, and 2) crazy fringe radical. Not only are his policies pretty specific, but they are also surprisingly mainstream. Trump would be strong in the general for the same reasons he is destroying the primary: he is touching on issues the average American cares about, speaking about them in ways that the average American understands, and refusing to let the media or his political opponents define him. His only real weaknesses are his lack of ground game and his relatively high unfavorables. Both of those are manageable, though the latter would be more difficult to work around. The point of my comment was this: we all look at the world through our own biased lenses, and I see a great many people on this thread have consistently posited that anyone who is not pushing their own policies has no chance of winning. There is no real evidence to support that theory. | ||
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Chewbacca.
United States3634 Posts
Part 1:storify.com Part 2:storify.com | ||
Souma
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
China isnt the bad guy, but they are the bad guy. We gonna fuck em up. (never mind the fact they own a vast sum of our debt). China is no saint and there are issues, but strong arming them as an "excellent negotiator" or forcing companies to bring jobs back home arent real answers. Veterans deserve more, I will give it to them (fair enough but no real concrete idea of where the funding will come from or even could come from. Just go all apprentice on the VA bureaucracy, + Show Spoiler + Veterans benefits everyone likes to talk about but the right and left for that matter consistently vote to deny Veterans the things they need, and have done so for decades, especially when a large majority of the grunts come from territories. Fuck them. The Tax plan is utopian and offers relief to middle america while significantly easing taxes on the rich. Basically point out a few key pain points like "inversion" and redistribute the loopholes in the tax code elswhere. Meanwhile poor people pay less taxes and the Govt has no money to do shit. Guns Guns more guns. The problem is mental health not guns, But we will just forget about mental health till the next shooting. Also Muslims. Build a wall, Ban Muslims. America is great again. EZ | ||
{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
Republican establishment candidates are locked in a mortal fight to win the state of New Hampshire – where failure, for some, could mark the end of their presidential ambitions. As the outsider Donald Trump widens his lead over the Republican field in national polls, with less than six weeks until the first nominating contests begin, the more traditional candidates are shuttling frenetically around the critical early state. “The people of Iowa pick corn, the people of New Hampshire pick presidents,” the adage goes. And so four Republicans currently splitting the mainstream vote – Marco Rubio, Chris Christie, Jeb Bush and John Kasich – crisscrossed the state ahead of the Christmas holiday seeking to distinguish themselves from a crowded field of 13 candidates. Rubio vowed to be a unifying figure amid challenging times both at home and abroad, while acknowledging the disillusionment that has driven voters into the arms of outsider candidates who have never held elected office. “I know that times are tough,” the Florida senator told voters at a town hall in the riverside city of Berlin on Tuesday. “I know that people are frustrated and that this is a time to be angry about the direction of our country. But not just to be angry. This is a time to act. This is a time of urgency,” he said. A few hours later, at his own town hall just down the street, Bush also emphasized the necessity of the moment – but as part of an appeal to voters to reject candidates he dubbed as unserious. Standing inside a garage classroom at a community college, the former Florida governor began with a confession that – from the very outset – he had served as a particular foil to the bombastic arrogance that has defined Trump’s candidacy. Source | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
I would posit that very few people believe Trump's comments have been either racist or sexist. And I think most people can understand that it's a lie to say he hasn't been specific. I'd posit that you're quite dislodged from reality if you actually mean what you just said there. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On December 24 2015 11:03 m4ini wrote: I'd posit that you're quite dislodged from reality if you actually mean what you just said there. On December 24 2015 08:23 Cowboy64 wrote: we all look at the world through our own biased lenses It's all the way you see the world. Some people want to perceive everyone agreeing on the racist/sexist barbs, others see racists and sexists everywhere. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On December 24 2015 12:18 Danglars wrote: It's all the way you see the world. Some people want to perceive everyone agreeing on the racist/sexist barbs, others see racists and sexists everywhere. So just to be clear, you don't think stuff like this is sexist: | ||
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Deathstar
9150 Posts
haha unfortunately Ben Carson has said some stupid shit in the debates, but I don't remember them. I just remember the ridiculously awkward moment of silence. ... | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
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