EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 2684
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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Sgany
United Kingdom790 Posts
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
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acker
United States2958 Posts
Would still be at least a third cheaper, even if the most expensive single-payer state in Europe is used as a baseline. But it's whatever the government wants to pay for healthcare in single payer. | ||
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Sgany
United Kingdom790 Posts
On December 20 2015 11:56 TheTenthDoc wrote: She asked for how much more taxes people would have to pay, Sanders, answer the question. Don't be silly Sanders have a pragmatic policy, all he has is crazy out of touch with reality ideology. | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
(it makes for a looooooooooooot better answer to the question to say "at most X% tax with more money in their pocket" at least to me) | ||
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acker
United States2958 Posts
On December 20 2015 11:58 TheTenthDoc wrote: True, but it's somewhat foolish to not even have a ballpark or ceiling number you would implement as a progressive tax. Once again, it's literally whatever the government wants to pay. That's the point of single payer. If the most expensive single payer country in Europe is used as a baseline, that's a third less than now. But, theoretically, Congress could spend nothing in the single payer system or 100000x more for single payer. | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
On December 20 2015 11:59 acker wrote: Once again, it's literally whatever the government wants to pay. That's the point of single payer. If the most expensive single payer country in Europe is used as a baseline, that's still a third less. Isn't he the government deciding how much to pay, though? | ||
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acker
United States2958 Posts
On December 20 2015 12:00 TheTenthDoc wrote: Isn't he the government deciding how much to pay, though? Is Sanders the House and Senate? It's a presidency, not a dictatorship. | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
He certainly acts like it in all his other proposals. That's kind of the point of proposals. | ||
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acker
United States2958 Posts
On December 20 2015 12:01 TheTenthDoc wrote: He certainly acts like it in all his other proposals. That's kind of the point of proposals. The budget is literally the domain of the House of Representatives. It's right in the Constitution. Of course, literally nothing other than executive appointments matter if the Republicans hold the Senate and/or House. Which is still a big deal. | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
On December 20 2015 12:02 acker wrote: The budget is literally the domain of the House. That doesn't mean the President can't propose positions on bills with budgetary impacts though. Like, for example, the Affordable Care Act or a Medicaid expansion. It means he can't unilaterally pass a law, you are correct, but not that he can't give a ballpark of the system he would ideally like the House to pass. | ||
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Deathstar
9150 Posts
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acker
United States2958 Posts
On December 20 2015 12:04 TheTenthDoc wrote: That doesn't mean the President can't propose positions on bills with budgetary impacts though. Like, for example, the Affordable Care Act or a Medicaid expansion. My point exactly; they just delayed the Cadillac tax for the ACA this current budget, driving up costs beyond initial projections. The president can say what he likes, but the House has final say on the financial path of any given budget legislation. The UK might have had the NHS since 1945, but that doesn't mean that the Tories can make it pay a pittance of market price in 2015. The same holds true for budget issues in the USA. | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
On December 20 2015 12:06 acker wrote: My point exactly; they just delayed the Cadillac tax for the ACA this current budget, driving up costs beyond initial projections. The president can say what he likes, but the House has final say on the path of any given budget legislation. Yes...but that doesn't mean Obama couldn't tell us his ideal system should include the Cadillac tax. Just that it doesn't mean it will be a reality. (and now he's giving actual numbers paid per week on the paid leave policy which seems a lot more powerful to me) I just think he needs to give his ideal numbers he would start bargaining from if he doesn't want people to think he's not serious. Err, wants people to think he's serious. | ||
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acker
United States2958 Posts
On December 20 2015 12:08 TheTenthDoc wrote: Yes...but that doesn't mean Obama couldn't tell us his ideal system should include the Cadillac tax. Just that it doesn't mean it will be a reality. (and now he's giving actual numbers paid per week on the paid leave policy which seems a lot more powerful to me) I just think he needs to give his ideal numbers he would start bargaining from if he doesn't want people to think he's not serious. Err, wants people to think he's serious. Likewise, Sanders is saying that his ideal system is single payer. Unlike other proposed legislation, the budget of single payer translates directly to the cost of single payer, making it the purview of whoever is paying for it. Once again, literally none of this matters unless the Democrats win the House and Senate. Only thing that matters is executive appointments. Edit: misheard the debate. It's a definite contradiction between single payer and paid leave. | ||
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Rassy
Netherlands2308 Posts
Question about race. Q:"what would you do to bridge the gap" A:"i would take steps to bridge the gap" And "we need to reform" without going into any specifics on how to reform. She didn't mention one concrete measure that she would take. They are all bad,malone is the same. All they say is "we need to take steps to make things better" we need to improve" bla bla. Bernie is the only one that did mention a few concrete steps,hes easily the best candidate. | ||
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Deathstar
9150 Posts
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Deathstar
9150 Posts
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acker
United States2958 Posts
/s These questions... | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15742 Posts
On December 20 2015 11:57 acker wrote: That's literally impossible to answer, single payer costs vary wildly across Europe. God knows what it'd cost for America. Would still be at least a third cheaper, even if the most expensive single-payer state in Europe is used as a baseline. But it's whatever the government wants to pay for healthcare in single payer. So then what good is an idea if it doesn't even have numbers attached to it? What is he actually doing to build a framework? If he can't even get a number, why has this issue been the center of his campaign? | ||
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