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On November 20 2015 06:43 Danglars wrote:
Since when do employees clamor for their employer to publish a list of acceptable culturally-sensitive Halloween costumes before the party? Social censure on one hand and tolerance on the other generally suffice. That's for adults, not for the children currently populating college campuses. They're revealed by their actions.
Since the meaning of the terms like "culturally-sensitive" were no longer determined by white folks. Add it to the long list of cultural changes that are coming as white folks lose their exclusive control over what's acceptable or not.
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On November 20 2015 04:08 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2015 03:56 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:Donld trump being donald trump http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34873057Mr Trump said in an interview with Yahoo Politics that he would consider "drastic measures" for monitoring the community.
Asked if that may include registering Muslims in a database or using special ID cards, he did not rule it out.
Islamic State militants said they carried out the attacks in Paris.
The suicide bombs and shootings at various venues across the French capital killed 129 people on Friday.
"We're going to have to do things we never did before," said Mr Trump, a frontrunner in the Republican race for the White House.
"And some people are going to be upset about it, but I think that now everybody is feeling security is going to rule."
He told Yahoo Politics certain things would have to be done "that we never thought would happen in this country in terms of information and learning about the enemy".
The US is going to have to do certain things that were "frankly unthinkable a year ago," said the billionaire businessman, who has previously said mosques should come under surveillance and Syrians should be deported.
Godwin's law is a thing, but there is only once place to go in this line of discussion. And we have a Mayor praising the Japaneses internment camps. Where am I?
No kidding. It's difficult to bring up WWII seriously in any conversation, but this is literally the exact direction that Trump's rhetoric leads us in. It should be absolutely terrifying to anyone with a modicum of intelligence that he has any support at all.
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On November 20 2015 05:05 Velr wrote:
Atm the agencies Seen to have Too mich Information to sort out the important stuff... So we have less privacy and are less secure.
Win/win i guess
that's basically what it comes down to and nyxisto also mentioned this - you have so much information that it's simply overwhelming, and cannot find patterns or irregularities. algorithms are getting better but are far from what some would like them to be capable of.
and I, again, don't buy the "we build a map for a house which we can later access" analogy... rule #1 is that if people are given the power they will use and abuse it.
what happened to the nsa agents spying on their potential love interests? as mundane as this example is, what about the cia spying on the legislative body in charge of controlling their activity?
I think no one - in general - has a problem with them being able to access pretty much all online services in case of emergency or if there is sufficient cause to do so in accordance with a judge order.
they shit in their own bed with snowden spoiling the fun and now the private sector is giving them the finger too in order to keep customers' trust and therefore customers - which further complicates things.
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On November 20 2015 06:09 Nyxisto wrote:
The thing about this "liberal campus" and real world split, admittedly I don't know much about American campus life, but where in the 'real world' can you go to your company's Halloween party blackfaced?
My firm would fire your ass the next day, straight up. But its not about costumes, its about bigger issues.
https://gimletmedia.com/episode/46-yik-yak-returns/
Reply All did a really good story about it following up a previous story about racism at some colleges. And more importantly, the very aggressive denial response to those claims on social media. Specially the location based service, Yik Yak. And the same issues come up when discussions about sexual violence at colleges and denials that it is a problem. Its a good report.
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At my firm no one would give a shit... Sorry, i meant in my country... We just don't understand the rage about black face... If i am maskerading as a black person, i will have a black face.
But we had this before, won't lead to anything more.
Btw: I highly doubt Nyxistos, asuming he works in germarny in a german company, would do shit all, or even realise that it could be offensive to anyone...
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At my firm no one would give a shit... Sorry, i meant in my country... We just don't understand the rage about black face...
That is what is commonly known as "white privilege"
"Me and my buddies/compatriots don't get what the big deal is, so rather than figure it out, we'll use our ignorance as justification for our racism/bigotry".
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On November 20 2015 08:46 Velr wrote:
At my firm no one would give a shit... Sorry, i meant in my country... We just don't understand the rage about black face... If i am maskerading as a black person, i will have a black face.
But we had this before, won't lead to anything more.
Btw: I highly doubt Nyxistos, asuming he works in germarny in a german company, would do shit all, or even realise that it could be offensive to anyone...
Then Switzerland might be an exception, generally blackface or similar stuff is highly controversial and is probably a good way to lose your job. It was more of a general point. There are just as much social conventions in the 'real' and professional world as there are in these alleged 'safe colleges'. I want to see any sufficiently large company that tolerates racist remarks from their employees.
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On November 20 2015 08:56 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +At my firm no one would give a shit... Sorry, i meant in my country... We just don't understand the rage about black face... That is what is commonly known as "white privilege" "Me and my buddies/compatriots don't get what the big deal is, so rather than figure it out, we'll use our ignorance as justification for our racism/bigotry".
I'd say it's more cultural differences than white privilege. switzerland must have a very different history with those things.
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On November 20 2015 08:56 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +At my firm no one would give a shit... Sorry, i meant in my country... We just don't understand the rage about black face... That is what is commonly known as "white privilege" "Me and my buddies/compatriots don't get what the big deal is, so rather than figure it out, we'll use our ignorance as justification for our racism/bigotry".
What is offensive about black skin?
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On November 20 2015 09:17 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2015 08:56 GreenHorizons wrote:At my firm no one would give a shit... Sorry, i meant in my country... We just don't understand the rage about black face... That is what is commonly known as "white privilege" "Me and my buddies/compatriots don't get what the big deal is, so rather than figure it out, we'll use our ignorance as justification for our racism/bigotry". What is offensive about black skin?
Well I suppose that depends on who you are but we're talking about painting ones skin black.
Short version is white America ruined it for everyone.
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On November 20 2015 09:17 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2015 08:56 GreenHorizons wrote:At my firm no one would give a shit... Sorry, i meant in my country... We just don't understand the rage about black face... That is what is commonly known as "white privilege" "Me and my buddies/compatriots don't get what the big deal is, so rather than figure it out, we'll use our ignorance as justification for our racism/bigotry". What is offensive about black skin?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackface
Black face was a type of theatrical make up used to depict racist stereotypes about blacks in the 19th century. In the US it is considered extremely racist and almost always used to demean blacks.
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On November 20 2015 09:23 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2015 09:17 Mohdoo wrote:On November 20 2015 08:56 GreenHorizons wrote:At my firm no one would give a shit... Sorry, i meant in my country... We just don't understand the rage about black face... That is what is commonly known as "white privilege" "Me and my buddies/compatriots don't get what the big deal is, so rather than figure it out, we'll use our ignorance as justification for our racism/bigotry". What is offensive about black skin? Well I suppose that depends on who you are but we're talking about painting ones skin black. Short version is white America ruined it for everyone.
I mean what is offensive about someone painting their skin black. I don't understand. I really just don't see black skin as distinct from other colors and I feel like I am missing a crucial component to what makes it offensive. I've always just seen it as a part of a costume, no different than dying hair for a certain character or costume. What some people allude to is black struggle and slavery, but I don't see how that follows. Sure, those are/were bad things. But I don't see why it is bad to have a costume based on a character that is of a historically suppressed race.
On November 20 2015 09:30 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2015 09:17 Mohdoo wrote:On November 20 2015 08:56 GreenHorizons wrote:At my firm no one would give a shit... Sorry, i meant in my country... We just don't understand the rage about black face... That is what is commonly known as "white privilege" "Me and my buddies/compatriots don't get what the big deal is, so rather than figure it out, we'll use our ignorance as justification for our racism/bigotry". What is offensive about black skin? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlackfaceBlack face was a type of theatrical make up used to depict racist stereotypes about blacks in the 19th century. In the US it is considered extremely racist and almost always used to demean blacks.
So is black face distinct from wearing makeup to make skin appear black? Maybe that explains my misunderstanding. The difference between "black" cartoon characters in the 20s that had giant lips and shit like that, and modern day black characters that are drawn as just kinda black people.
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On November 20 2015 09:17 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2015 08:56 GreenHorizons wrote:At my firm no one would give a shit... Sorry, i meant in my country... We just don't understand the rage about black face... That is what is commonly known as "white privilege" "Me and my buddies/compatriots don't get what the big deal is, so rather than figure it out, we'll use our ignorance as justification for our racism/bigotry". What is offensive about black skin?
Don't make the mistake of looking for a reasonably objective and rational explanation. The "correct" answer is that it is offensive because some people perceive it as being offensive.
Now go bask in the awe of the obvious dissatisfaction that you're drawing from my answer.
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On November 20 2015 09:30 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2015 09:23 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 20 2015 09:17 Mohdoo wrote:On November 20 2015 08:56 GreenHorizons wrote:At my firm no one would give a shit... Sorry, i meant in my country... We just don't understand the rage about black face... That is what is commonly known as "white privilege" "Me and my buddies/compatriots don't get what the big deal is, so rather than figure it out, we'll use our ignorance as justification for our racism/bigotry". What is offensive about black skin? Well I suppose that depends on who you are but we're talking about painting ones skin black. Short version is white America ruined it for everyone. I mean what is offensive about someone painting their skin black. I don't understand. I really just don't see black skin as distinct from other colors and I feel like I am missing a crucial component to what makes it offensive. I've always just seen it as a part of a costume, no different than dying hair for a certain character or costume. What some people allude to is black struggle and slavery, but I don't see how that follows. Sure, those are/were bad things. But I don't see why it is bad to have a costume based on a character that is of a historically suppressed race. Show nested quote +On November 20 2015 09:30 Plansix wrote:On November 20 2015 09:17 Mohdoo wrote:On November 20 2015 08:56 GreenHorizons wrote:At my firm no one would give a shit... Sorry, i meant in my country... We just don't understand the rage about black face... That is what is commonly known as "white privilege" "Me and my buddies/compatriots don't get what the big deal is, so rather than figure it out, we'll use our ignorance as justification for our racism/bigotry". What is offensive about black skin? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlackfaceBlack face was a type of theatrical make up used to depict racist stereotypes about blacks in the 19th century. In the US it is considered extremely racist and almost always used to demean blacks. So is black face distinct from wearing makeup to make skin appear black? Maybe that explains my misunderstanding. The difference between "black" cartoon characters in the 20s that had giant lips and shit like that, and modern day black characters that are drawn as just kinda black people.
The problem is that it carries over to attempting to be another race. Yellow Face(make up to be asian) is a thing. In general in the US it is considered tasteless to attempt to use make up to simulate being another race for purely entertainment purposes. Our country has a long history of using that form of entertainment to demean minorities. You can look at old Bugs Bunny cartoons from the 50 and event 60s to see it. They go so far as to simulate the style of black face make up in the cartoons.
So yes it does unless the "transformation" is complete unnoticeable, so professional grade make up. And even then, its just weird until there is some reason behind it. But any college make up job to make a white student appear to have black skin will look exactly like black face.
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On November 20 2015 09:40 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2015 09:30 Mohdoo wrote:On November 20 2015 09:23 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 20 2015 09:17 Mohdoo wrote:On November 20 2015 08:56 GreenHorizons wrote:At my firm no one would give a shit... Sorry, i meant in my country... We just don't understand the rage about black face... That is what is commonly known as "white privilege" "Me and my buddies/compatriots don't get what the big deal is, so rather than figure it out, we'll use our ignorance as justification for our racism/bigotry". What is offensive about black skin? Well I suppose that depends on who you are but we're talking about painting ones skin black. Short version is white America ruined it for everyone. I mean what is offensive about someone painting their skin black. I don't understand. I really just don't see black skin as distinct from other colors and I feel like I am missing a crucial component to what makes it offensive. I've always just seen it as a part of a costume, no different than dying hair for a certain character or costume. What some people allude to is black struggle and slavery, but I don't see how that follows. Sure, those are/were bad things. But I don't see why it is bad to have a costume based on a character that is of a historically suppressed race. On November 20 2015 09:30 Plansix wrote:On November 20 2015 09:17 Mohdoo wrote:On November 20 2015 08:56 GreenHorizons wrote:At my firm no one would give a shit... Sorry, i meant in my country... We just don't understand the rage about black face... That is what is commonly known as "white privilege" "Me and my buddies/compatriots don't get what the big deal is, so rather than figure it out, we'll use our ignorance as justification for our racism/bigotry". What is offensive about black skin? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlackfaceBlack face was a type of theatrical make up used to depict racist stereotypes about blacks in the 19th century. In the US it is considered extremely racist and almost always used to demean blacks. So is black face distinct from wearing makeup to make skin appear black? Maybe that explains my misunderstanding. The difference between "black" cartoon characters in the 20s that had giant lips and shit like that, and modern day black characters that are drawn as just kinda black people. The problem is that it carries over to attempting to be another race. Yellow Face(make up to be asian) is a thing. In general in the US it is considered tasteless to attempt to use make up to simulate being another race for purely entertainment purposes. Our country has a long history of using that form of entertainment to demean minorities. You can look at old Bugs Bunny cartoons from the 50 and event 60s to see it. They go so far as to simulate the style of black face make up in the cartoons.
Old 50s and 60s cartoons, sure, definitely offensive and I can agree with that. But let's say I wanted to dress up as blade for Halloween. Blade is black. I am half Peruvian and half white, so I am kinda olive'ish. Since blade is not olive'ish, my theoretical costume would benefit from make up to look black. Are you saying it would be offensive for me to use black makeup? I think there is a big difference between using black makeup to look like a cotton picker, and using black makeup to look like Blade. One of them represents treating black people as cattle. The other represents a half vampire that kills vampires.
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On November 20 2015 09:45 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2015 09:40 Plansix wrote:On November 20 2015 09:30 Mohdoo wrote:On November 20 2015 09:23 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 20 2015 09:17 Mohdoo wrote:On November 20 2015 08:56 GreenHorizons wrote:At my firm no one would give a shit... Sorry, i meant in my country... We just don't understand the rage about black face... That is what is commonly known as "white privilege" "Me and my buddies/compatriots don't get what the big deal is, so rather than figure it out, we'll use our ignorance as justification for our racism/bigotry". What is offensive about black skin? Well I suppose that depends on who you are but we're talking about painting ones skin black. Short version is white America ruined it for everyone. I mean what is offensive about someone painting their skin black. I don't understand. I really just don't see black skin as distinct from other colors and I feel like I am missing a crucial component to what makes it offensive. I've always just seen it as a part of a costume, no different than dying hair for a certain character or costume. What some people allude to is black struggle and slavery, but I don't see how that follows. Sure, those are/were bad things. But I don't see why it is bad to have a costume based on a character that is of a historically suppressed race. On November 20 2015 09:30 Plansix wrote:On November 20 2015 09:17 Mohdoo wrote:On November 20 2015 08:56 GreenHorizons wrote:At my firm no one would give a shit... Sorry, i meant in my country... We just don't understand the rage about black face... That is what is commonly known as "white privilege" "Me and my buddies/compatriots don't get what the big deal is, so rather than figure it out, we'll use our ignorance as justification for our racism/bigotry". What is offensive about black skin? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlackfaceBlack face was a type of theatrical make up used to depict racist stereotypes about blacks in the 19th century. In the US it is considered extremely racist and almost always used to demean blacks. So is black face distinct from wearing makeup to make skin appear black? Maybe that explains my misunderstanding. The difference between "black" cartoon characters in the 20s that had giant lips and shit like that, and modern day black characters that are drawn as just kinda black people. The problem is that it carries over to attempting to be another race. Yellow Face(make up to be asian) is a thing. In general in the US it is considered tasteless to attempt to use make up to simulate being another race for purely entertainment purposes. Our country has a long history of using that form of entertainment to demean minorities. You can look at old Bugs Bunny cartoons from the 50 and event 60s to see it. They go so far as to simulate the style of black face make up in the cartoons. Old 50s and 60s cartoons, sure, definitely offensive and I can agree with that. But let's say I wanted to dress up as blade for Halloween. Blade is black. I am half Peruvian and half white, so I am kinda olive'ish. Since blade is not olive'ish, my theoretical costume would benefit from make up to look black. Are you saying it would be offensive for me to use black makeup? I think there is a big difference between using black makeup to look like a cotton picker, and using black makeup to look like Blade. One of them represents treating black people as cattle. The other represents a half vampire that kills vampires.
I'm white, so I don't really have any legitimate perspective on what would cross the line for most black people. Personally, if I were in your position and of your race, I wouldn't do it. There is such racial and historical baggage associated with theater make up to change skin and race(see Breakfast at Tiffany's) that it isn't worth the risk of making someone upset. Plus, plenty of people cos-play numerous characters of a number of races without going down that path.
Note: this specific to the US. I don't know what the fuck the rest of you people are doing across the world.
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The problem with putting on blackface to try to look like Blade is that you're going to be associated with the douchebag who puts on blackface and carries around a bucket of KFC plus a watermelon for halloween. And unless you're a makeup pro it's going to look janky as fuck too.
You could just dress as Blade without black makeup that looks shitty as fuck and happens to correspond with things racists like to do.
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So how about wearing a black afro wig? What if was dressing up as someone who has an iconic afro? No makeup, but a really black person'ish afro wig? Is that offensive? It is distinctly and uniquely black, but it isn't skin.
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I think if you were trying to be a specific person with an afro, it would be fine the rest of your costume is on point. Just don't go as "a black guy" like being black is a costume. That is when it gets weird.
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On November 20 2015 09:59 Plansix wrote:
I think if you were trying to be a specific person with an afro, it would be fine the rest of your costume is on point. Just don't go as "a black guy" like being black is a costume. That is when it gets weird.
And yet in the case of blade, even with an otherwise convincing costume, adding the black makeup makes it offensive? Even when it is abundantly clear that the costume isn't just some black dude?
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EPT
