US Politics Mega-thread - Page 2253
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
MoltkeWarding
5195 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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MoltkeWarding
5195 Posts
The pulpit effect is a naturally-occurring phenomenon, and so long as political organisation exists, there must exist a breed of individuals who sacrifice the integrity of their own minds to become a vocal filter for that abstraction called the people. The High Priest. By the very nature of his function, he is not permitted to say anything which is not vague enough to satisfy the diversity of his audience. For those of us who hold the sovereign mind to be the chamber of basic human dignity, this is at best a justified abomination, but an abomination nonetheless. Let us recognise it for what it is, and play our roles like good patriots, but without illusions, and without forgetting that our natures demand something higher of ourselves. P.S. Watching his speech again; it is great fun. O'Malley's expression veers from anger to passion to compassion within the span of seconds to visually escort his message. However, since no person naturally flips emotions so quickly, he easily imitates someone with a severe personality disorder. | ||
Karis Vas Ryaar
United States4396 Posts
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/experts-say-republican-candidates-rhetoric-china-economy-overlooks-reality/ “When you’re in the early phases of the primary season, and you don’t have a lot in the way of foreign policy bona fides, a surefire applause line is to go to the extreme – and in the case of China that’s always a very easy thing to do,” said Jon Huntsman, a former Republican governor of Utah and U.S. ambassador to China under Obama. No candidate went further than Trump, whose pledge to bring back to the U.S. the roughly 2 million jobs lost to China since 1999 is a centerpiece of his campaign. “Not only now have they taken our jobs … but now they are pulling us down with them,” he said Monday amid a worldwide swoon in stock prices. But “uncoupling” the U.S. from China as Trump proposes would mean undoing the largest trade relationship in the world: $592 billion in goods and services were exchanged last year. While most of that consists of U.S. imports of Chinese products, China is still the United States’ third-largest export market. General Motors has sold more cars in China than in the U.S. every year since 2010. Apple’s second-largest market for its iPhones, iPads and computers is China. Said Apple CEO Tim Cook this week, “I get updates on our performance in China every day.” “It would basically be economic suicide to cut yourself off from the second-largest and fastest-growing economy in the world,” said Nicholas Lardy, a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics. But the Wisconsin governor didn’t say how he would settle issues between the nations without such face-to-face meetings. Bonnie Glaser, a China expert at the non-partisan Center for Strategic and International Studies, called Walker’s idea “the nuclear option” of diplomacy. “You can’t just close the door and take your toys and go home,” she said. “That’s not the way that effective international policy is made.” Glaser said the U.S.-China relationship is best managed by meetings between the chief executives of the two nations, due in no small part to the immense power Xi wields in Beijing. “If we can persuade Xi Jinping to do something, it will happen,” she said. “That’s actually quite different from a democratic country.” | ||
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 30 2015 04:49 MoltkeWarding wrote: I'm more concerned about what that kind of speech does to people who seek to imitate it on the path to power and success. The pulpit effect is a naturally-occurring phenomenon, and so long as political organisation exists, there must exist a breed of individuals who sacrifice the integrity of their own minds to become a vocal filter for that abstraction called the people. The High Priest. By the very nature of his function, he is not permitted to say anything which is not vague enough to satisfy the diversity of his audience. For those of us who hold the sovereign mind to be the chamber of basic human dignity, this is at best a justified abomination, but an abomination nonetheless. Let us recognise it for what it is, and play our roles like good patriots, but without illusions, and without forgetting that our natures demand something higher of ourselves. Bro, they give speeches to reach people and get their vote. I understand that you might fell these hyper verbose statements are insightful, but they aren't saying as a lot as far as I can tell. Most people here are not interested in breaking down the "abstraction" called "the people". Really, most people here are avoiding phrases like "chamber of basic human dignity" and other such pompous language because we don't want to sound like a kid who fell out of philosophy 101. | ||
MoltkeWarding
5195 Posts
On August 30 2015 05:37 Plansix wrote: Bro, they give speeches to reach people and get their vote. I understand that you might fell these hyper verbose statements are insightful, but they aren't saying as a lot as far as I can tell. Most people here are not interested in breaking down the "abstraction" called "the people". Really, most people here are avoiding phrases like "chamber of basic human dignity" and other such pompous language because we don't want to sound like a kid who fell out of philosophy 101. Is that so? In my experience, kids who fell out of philosophy 101 do not sound like that at all. They sound like most people on tl.net. Also, because I cannot resist: Most people here are not interested in breaking down the "abstraction" called "the people". If only it were intentional. | ||
zf
231 Posts
On August 30 2015 05:46 MoltkeWarding wrote:Is that so? In my experience, kids who fell out of philosophy 101 do not sound like that at all. They sound like most people on tl.net. Out of curiosity, where are you from/where were you educated? Your spelling is British. Your punctuation (excluding commas) is American. Your diction is idiosyncratic. And your reading habits suggest you were trained in Continental Europe. I'm baffled. | ||
Sermokala
United States13545 Posts
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MoltkeWarding
5195 Posts
Out of curiosity, where are you from/where were you educated? Your spelling is British. Your punctuation (excluding commas) is American. Your diction is idiosyncratic. And your reading habits suggest you were trained in Continental Europe. I'm baffled. There is no special moment in it. I enjoy playing with language, and there is no more, and no less to my orthographic and lexical choices than that. P.S. On second thought, this is not entirely true. I do change between orthographic standards but I also maintain a default which I use most of the time. Punctuation is consistent with Canadian English, but as this is not an internationally prominent standard, I evolved into the more recognisable British standard spelling over time, which is very similar to the Canadian. The discipline occasionally lapses however, when I am forced to do constant battle with auto-correct and spell-check. | ||
GreenHorizons
United States21795 Posts
Liberal revolutionary Bernie Sanders, riding an updraft of insurgent passion in Iowa, has closed to within 7 points of Hillary Clinton in the Democratic presidential race. She's the first choice of 37 percent of likely Democratic caucusgoers; he's the pick for 30 percent, according to a new Des Moines Register/Bloomberg Politics Iowa Poll. But Clinton has lost a third of her supporters since May, a trajectory that if sustained puts her at risk of losing again in Iowa, the initial crucible in the presidential nominating contest. This is the first time Clinton, the former secretary of state and longtime presumptive front-runner, has dropped below the 50 percent mark in four polls conducted by the Register and Bloomberg Politics this year. Poll results include Vice President Joe Biden as a choice, although he has not yet decided whether to join the race. Biden captures 14 percent, five months from the first-in-the-nation vote Feb. 1. Even without Biden in the mix, Clinton falls below a majority, at 43 percent. Source So yeah, 538 was pretty wrong about the whole "surging" vs "surged" crap. Despite what the typical pundits say, Sanders support is overwhelmingly support of Sanders and not a dislike of Clinton. This leaves little to no room for Biden to make a legitimate run. It would be a shame to see him ruin his legacy going out on a loss instead of a solid vice presidency. | ||
Karis Vas Ryaar
United States4396 Posts
On August 30 2015 07:55 GreenHorizons wrote: Source So yeah, 538 was pretty wrong about the whole "surging" vs "surged" crap. Despite what the typical pundits say, Sanders support is overwhelmingly support of Sanders and not a dislike of Clinton. This leaves little to no room for Biden to make a legitimate run. It would be a shame to see him ruin his legacy going out on a loss instead of a solid vice presidency. to be fair all statistics is based on projection based on past history and all the past history said you need to have support from the establishment. so it's just a pretty good example of the problem of induction. speaking honestly of Hilary I keep waiting for her to actually do something, it seems like she's being overly passive. | ||
GreenHorizons
United States21795 Posts
On August 30 2015 07:59 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote: to be fair all statistics is based on projection based on past history and all the past history said you need to have support from the establishment. so it's just a pretty good example of the problem of induction. speaking honestly of Hilary I keep waiting for her to actually do something, it seems like she's being overly passive. I believe her plan was to just remain palatable for as many people as possible, since the plan was to sail through the nomination process. The entire political class underestimated how fed up with party politics the average voters were. While she did what she needed to make sure Warren didn't run, her camp never saw Sanders (or the grassroots) coming. Since Sanders refuses to run negative adds (or take swipes when prompted by the media) she'll only lose support by attacking him, and her attacks on the right are bombastic but ineffectual. In my view, she doesn't have a play. Best she can do is just financially overwhelm Sanders in the early states with hundreds of paid staffers and commercials. Problem there being that she is burning through cash and many of her donors are or will be maxed out soon. Hence why she is looking at the state parties to funnel money into, to be used to support her campaign more directly. The long and short of it being "I'll flood your state party with money so long as you use it to get me elected." -Hillary | ||
cLutZ
United States19553 Posts
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BallinWitStalin
1177 Posts
On August 30 2015 07:10 MoltkeWarding wrote: There is no special moment in it. I enjoy playing with language, and there is no more, and no less to my orthographic and lexical choices than that. P.S. On second thought, this is not entirely true. I do change between orthographic standards but I also maintain a default which I use most of the time. Punctuation is consistent with Canadian English, but as this is not an internationally prominent standard, I evolved into the more recognisable British standard spelling over time, which is very similar to the Canadian. The discipline occasionally lapses however, when I am forced to do constant battle with auto-correct and spell-check. So, in other words, while posting on internet forums is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation, ol' Moltke here just really likes to take his time, lube it up, and enjoy himself before coming to his conclusions. You can tell his posting, in particular, is a form of masturbation because he uses language whose full meaning is accessible pretty much only to himself, so the posts are therefor inherently for himself. But hey, at least he's honest about it. Why he enjoys posting among us plebs is beyond me, though. I guess everyone's got their kinks. | ||
TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
On August 30 2015 07:55 GreenHorizons wrote: Source So yeah, 538 was pretty wrong about the whole "surging" vs "surged" crap. Despite what the typical pundits say, Sanders support is overwhelmingly support of Sanders and not a dislike of Clinton. This leaves little to no room for Biden to make a legitimate run. It would be a shame to see him ruin his legacy going out on a loss instead of a solid vice presidency. I think 538 ran a whole "case for Bernie" article a week ago didn't they? http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/this-is-how-bernie-sanders-could-win/ I really think the fact that there is nothing in the media about Clinton besides emails is a key part of Bernie picking it up momentum; it helps that pretty much any article discussing a poll where Clinton is losing ground will mention him. His organizing is good too, of course, but she is just not managing her image at all. His numbers in the African American demographic are also a big part of his continued rise I think which they discussed (last poll I saw there was a considerable improvement). | ||
MoltkeWarding
5195 Posts
On August 30 2015 08:51 BallinWitStalin wrote: So, in other words, while posting on internet forums is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation, ol' Moltke here just really likes to take his time, lube it up, and enjoy himself before coming to his conclusions. You can tell his posting, in particular, is a form of masturbation because he uses language whose full meaning is accessible pretty much only to himself, so the posts are therefor inherently for himself. But hey, at least he's honest about it. Why he enjoys posting among us plebs is beyond me, though. I guess everyone's got their kinks. Why would anyone write on a public forum to perfect strangers but for his own pleasure? If that is masturbation, then tu quoque! We have all been caught doing the same nasty thing. Collective guilt aside, there is a fact which eludes the obscene metaphor. I go outside every day and it is likely that I will only talk to one percent of the people whose paths I cross. You may conclude from my indifference to you as I walked past that I am a self-absorbed hedonist who should have simply stayed home, since society could receive no advantage from my excursion. All the facts point to it. When I passed the old lady, I was listening to my ipod instead of helping her with her groceries. When I passed the Japanese girl, I didn't stop to pose for a photo. You would conclude from this that although I had the right to my existence among you, I did not really belong among you. And you would be correct. The point of the metaphor is that mass immigration is a mistaken policy, because foreigners by satisfying their own needs first conduct a parallel existence in the country of their residence, but substantially they offer nothing, just like me. The fact that I am on this forum and raise its GDP does not justify my presence. | ||
farvacola
United States18768 Posts
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MoltkeWarding
5195 Posts
The matter is not for farvacola or myself to decide, but for BallinWitStalin. I have designed for him a house with three exits: he can leave by the door in which he retracts his previous statement, he can leave by the door by which he confesses to his own masturbation problem, or he can leave by the door in which he will be anti-immigration. The choice is his. I hope to ever hold the virtue of hospitality in such high esteem, that I will always be a worthy architect to those who have had the goodness to visit their attentions upon me. | ||
Karis Vas Ryaar
United States4396 Posts
On August 30 2015 10:26 MoltkeWarding wrote: Why would anyone write on a public forum to perfect strangers but for his own pleasure? If that is masturbation, then tu quoque! We have all been caught doing the same nasty thing. Collective guilt aside, there is a fact which eludes the obscene metaphor. I go outside every day and it is likely that I will only talk to one percent of the people whose paths I cross. You may conclude from my indifference to you as I walked past that I am a self-absorbed hedonist who should have simply stayed home, since society could receive no advantage from my excursion. All the facts point to it. When I passed the old lady, I was listening to my ipod instead of helping her with her groceries. When I passed the Japanese girl, I didn't stop to pose for a photo. You would conclude from this that although I had the right to my existence among you, I did not really belong among you. And you would be correct. The point of the metaphor is that mass immigration is a mistaken policy, because foreigners by satisfying their own needs first conduct a parallel existence in the country of their residence, but substantially they offer nothing, just like me. The fact that I am on this forum and raise its GDP does not justify my presence. okay I tried to avoid most of these posts but I'm going to list 2 objections. you seem to be comparing writing to masturbation, In Of Grammatology Derrida in his deconstruction of Rousseau shows why the idea of either term as unpure is highly problematic. and secondly you seem to be seeing immigrants as merely a means to an end which is against the Kantian ethos of seeing people as beings in themselves (whether you agree with that ethos is up to you entirely of course) anyway this is getting too far away from us politics so this is the one and only time I'm going to address it. | ||
KadaverBB
Germany25643 Posts
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