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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Deathstar
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
9150 Posts
August 16 2015 14:29 GMT
#44041
I found this neat article on common core written in 2014. Here are some excerpts. I graduated HS before I even knew what the words common core were, but this is a very interesting path the government has took. It's a scientific approach to incrementally improving the education system.


My fears were confirmed by the Common Core tests. Wherever they have been implemented, they have caused a dramatic collapse of test scores. In state after state, the passing rates dropped by about 30%. This was not happenstance. This was failure by design. Let me explain.

The Obama administration awarded $350 million to two groups to create tests for the Common Core standards. The testing consortia jointly decided to use a very high passing mark, which is known as a “cut score.” The Common Core testing consortia decided that the passing mark on their tests would be aligned with the proficient level on the federal tests called NAEP. This is a level typically reached by about 35-40% of students. Massachusetts is the only state in which as many as 50% ever reached the NAEP proficient level. The testing consortia set the bar so high that most students were sure to fail, and they did.

In New York state, which gave the Common Core tests last spring, only 30% of students across the state passed the tests. Only 3% of English language learners passed. Only 5% of students with disabilities passed. Fewer than 20% of African American and Hispanic students passed. By the time the results were reported in August, the students did not have the same teachers; the teachers saw the scores, but did not get any item analysis. They could not use the test results for diagnostic purposes, to help students. Their only value was to rank students.

When New York state education officials held public hearings, parents showed up en masse to complain about the Common Core testing. Secretary Duncan dismissed them as “white suburban moms” who were disappointed to learn that their child was not as brilliant as they thought and their public school was not as good as they thought. But he was wrong: the parents were outraged not because they thought their children were brilliant but because they did not believe that their children were failures. What, exactly, is the point of crushing the hearts and minds of young children by setting a standard so high that 70% are certain to fail?

The financial cost of implementing Common Core has barely been mentioned in the national debates. All Common Core testing will be done online. This is a bonanza for the tech industry and other vendors. Every school district must buy new computers, new teaching materials, and new bandwidth for the testing. At a time when school budgets have been cut in most states and many thousands of teachers have been laid off, school districts across the nation will spend billions to pay for Common Core testing. Los Angeles alone committed to spend $1 billion on iPads for the tests; the money is being taken from a bond issue approved by voters for construction and repair of school facilities. Meanwhile, the district has cut teachers of the arts, class size has increased, and necessary repairs are deferred because the money will be spent on iPads. The iPads will be obsolete in a year or two, and the Pearson content loaded onto the iPads has only a three-year license. The cost of implementing the Common Core and the new tests is likely to run into the billions at a time of deep budget cuts.

...
In the present climate, the Common Core standards and testing will become the driving force behind the creation of a test-based meritocracy. With David Coleman in charge of the College Board, the SAT will be aligned with the Common Core; so will the ACT. Both testing organizations were well represented in the writing of the standards; representatives of these two organizations comprised 12 of the 27 members of the original writing committee. The Common Core tests are a linchpin of the federal effort to commit K-12 education to the new world of Big Data. The tests are the necessary ingredient to standardize teaching, curriculum, instruction, and schooling. Only those who pass these rigorous tests will get a high school diploma. Only those with high scores on these rigorous tests will be able to go to college.

No one has come up with a plan for the 50% or more who never get a high school diploma. These days, a man or woman without a high school diploma has meager chances to make their way in this society. They will end up in society’s dead-end jobs.

Some might say this is just. I say it is not just. I say that we have allowed the testing corporations to assume too much power in allotting power, prestige, and opportunity. Those who are wealthy can afford to pay fabulous sums for tutors so their children can get high scores on standardized tests and college entrance exams. Those who are affluent live in districts with ample resources for their schools. Those who are poor lack those advantages. Our nation suffers an opportunity gap, and the opportunity gap creates a test score gap.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2014/01/18/everything-you-need-to-know-about-common-core-ravitch/


rip passion
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46217 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-16 14:47:55
August 16 2015 14:45 GMT
#44042
^^^ That's a great read
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 16 2015 15:36 GMT
#44043
Winds helped stoke wildfires sweeping across the northern Rocky mountains, the Pacific northwest and elsewhere on Saturday, posing new problems for firefighters trying to contain flames that have been fed by drought.

One blaze, the Soda Fire near Nampa in south-west Idaho, had burned 265,000 acres to become the largest such blaze in the nation.

The weather was expected to worsen fires in some areas over the weekend, as the federal government said it would exhaust its firefighting budget next month.

The giant Soda Fire, on the Idaho-Oregon border, scorched grassland ranchers need to feed cattle and primary habitat for sage grouse, a bird being considered for federal protection. The Owyhee County sheriff’s office recommended residents evacuate several areas on the southern edge of the fire, and some roads were closed to recreational visitors. Locals were allowed in.

Elsewhere, mandatory evacuations were put in place on Friday for areas west of the Idaho city limits of Kamiah, because of a 20-square-mile fire, a TV station reported. KREM-TV in Boise said residents of the city and surrounding areas had been told they should be packed and ready to evacuate at any time.

Those areas included Harrisburg East, Caribel, Tom Taha, Adams Grade, Kamiah proper, East Kamiah, Woodland Grade, Frasure Grade, Ridgewood and Fort Misery.

Dozens of smaller fires burned forested areas of the state, mainly caused by lightning storms. In central Idaho, a 600-acre fire 13 miles north of Crouch in timber is the largest of three fires started in that area when lightning moved through earlier this week.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
whatisthisasheep
Profile Joined April 2015
624 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-16 16:00:23
August 16 2015 15:56 GMT
#44044
Trump gave a candid half hour interview with Meet the Press Chuck Todd this morning.
Please help me get in contact with the Pats organization because I'd love to personally deflate Tom's balls.
Deathstar
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
9150 Posts
August 16 2015 17:16 GMT
#44045
Trump is really growing on me. I liked the interview and I really like his mannerism.
rip passion
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46217 Posts
August 16 2015 17:18 GMT
#44046
While I disagree with a lot of Trump's positions, this is at least a very candid and little-nonsense interview, as far as I can tell (with the exception of him fudging the Planned Parenthood abortion percentage). Chuck does a pretty good job of keeping Trump honest.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
August 16 2015 17:34 GMT
#44047
On August 16 2015 23:29 Deathstar wrote:
I found this neat article on common core written in 2014. Here are some excerpts. I graduated HS before I even knew what the words common core were, but this is a very interesting path the government has took. It's a scientific approach to incrementally improving the education system.

Show nested quote +

My fears were confirmed by the Common Core tests. Wherever they have been implemented, they have caused a dramatic collapse of test scores. In state after state, the passing rates dropped by about 30%. This was not happenstance. This was failure by design. Let me explain.

The Obama administration awarded $350 million to two groups to create tests for the Common Core standards. The testing consortia jointly decided to use a very high passing mark, which is known as a “cut score.” The Common Core testing consortia decided that the passing mark on their tests would be aligned with the proficient level on the federal tests called NAEP. This is a level typically reached by about 35-40% of students. Massachusetts is the only state in which as many as 50% ever reached the NAEP proficient level. The testing consortia set the bar so high that most students were sure to fail, and they did.

In New York state, which gave the Common Core tests last spring, only 30% of students across the state passed the tests. Only 3% of English language learners passed. Only 5% of students with disabilities passed. Fewer than 20% of African American and Hispanic students passed. By the time the results were reported in August, the students did not have the same teachers; the teachers saw the scores, but did not get any item analysis. They could not use the test results for diagnostic purposes, to help students. Their only value was to rank students.

When New York state education officials held public hearings, parents showed up en masse to complain about the Common Core testing. Secretary Duncan dismissed them as “white suburban moms” who were disappointed to learn that their child was not as brilliant as they thought and their public school was not as good as they thought. But he was wrong: the parents were outraged not because they thought their children were brilliant but because they did not believe that their children were failures. What, exactly, is the point of crushing the hearts and minds of young children by setting a standard so high that 70% are certain to fail?

The financial cost of implementing Common Core has barely been mentioned in the national debates. All Common Core testing will be done online. This is a bonanza for the tech industry and other vendors. Every school district must buy new computers, new teaching materials, and new bandwidth for the testing. At a time when school budgets have been cut in most states and many thousands of teachers have been laid off, school districts across the nation will spend billions to pay for Common Core testing. Los Angeles alone committed to spend $1 billion on iPads for the tests; the money is being taken from a bond issue approved by voters for construction and repair of school facilities. Meanwhile, the district has cut teachers of the arts, class size has increased, and necessary repairs are deferred because the money will be spent on iPads. The iPads will be obsolete in a year or two, and the Pearson content loaded onto the iPads has only a three-year license. The cost of implementing the Common Core and the new tests is likely to run into the billions at a time of deep budget cuts.

...
In the present climate, the Common Core standards and testing will become the driving force behind the creation of a test-based meritocracy. With David Coleman in charge of the College Board, the SAT will be aligned with the Common Core; so will the ACT. Both testing organizations were well represented in the writing of the standards; representatives of these two organizations comprised 12 of the 27 members of the original writing committee. The Common Core tests are a linchpin of the federal effort to commit K-12 education to the new world of Big Data. The tests are the necessary ingredient to standardize teaching, curriculum, instruction, and schooling. Only those who pass these rigorous tests will get a high school diploma. Only those with high scores on these rigorous tests will be able to go to college.

No one has come up with a plan for the 50% or more who never get a high school diploma. These days, a man or woman without a high school diploma has meager chances to make their way in this society. They will end up in society’s dead-end jobs.

Some might say this is just. I say it is not just. I say that we have allowed the testing corporations to assume too much power in allotting power, prestige, and opportunity. Those who are wealthy can afford to pay fabulous sums for tutors so their children can get high scores on standardized tests and college entrance exams. Those who are affluent live in districts with ample resources for their schools. Those who are poor lack those advantages. Our nation suffers an opportunity gap, and the opportunity gap creates a test score gap.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2014/01/18/everything-you-need-to-know-about-common-core-ravitch/



While the financial and centralization complaints are fair, the high school graduation complaint is silly. Perhaps 50% is not the right number, but there is a real, and accurate, sentiment that graduating means nothing. And the only way to change that is to prevent a significant % from graduating using standards relevant to employers.
Freeeeeeedom
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
August 16 2015 18:02 GMT
#44048
There is a real and accurate sentiment that being human means nothing and the only way to change that is to have a destitute, sub-human class and a real, human minority with access to things like a stable job, living wages, fulfilling relationships, good health, and a stake in society.
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-16 18:09:56
August 16 2015 18:07 GMT
#44049
reading up on that common core article, it looks like there may be a fair number of issues with the author/editor.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 16 2015 18:20 GMT
#44050
The latest numbers show that deaths from heroin-related overdose more than tripled nationally between 2002 and 2013. Opiate addiction touches every demographic: white, black, Hispanic, rural, suburban and urban.

Proposed solutions nationally include more government funding for treatment, tougher penalties for dealers, and proactive interventions to stop people before they start.

Now, a couple of parents who lost their son to a heroin overdose are pointing out that drug addiction doesn't tend to be treated like a disease in the United States — which means that when drug users want to get treatment, health insurance coverage often comes up short.

And until the prevailing thinking changes, these parents say, progress will only be made on the edges.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
JinDesu
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3990 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-16 19:14:35
August 16 2015 19:14 GMT
#44051
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/huckabee-abortion-10-year-old-rape-incest-victim_55d0a275e4b07addcb433a4a?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000013&section=politics

GOP presidential candidate Mike Huckabee supports Paraguay's decision to deny an abortion to a 10-year-old rape victim, he revealed in an interview Sunday.

In an appearance on CNN's "State of the Union," the former Arkansas governor argued that the Paraguayan government's refusal to allow an abortion for the now-11-year-old, who gave birth last week after being raped by her stepfather, prevented a second tragedy.

"Let nobody be misled, a 10-year-old girl being raped is horrible, but does it solve a problem by taking the life of an innocent child?" he asked. He added later, "When I think about one horror, I also think about the possibilities that exist and I just don't want to think that somehow we discounted a human life ... Let's not compound the tragedy by taking yet another life."


Huckabee has taken a firm stance against abortion and suggested last month that he wouldn't rule out using federal troops to stop women from accessing the procedure. He also identifies with a small group of conservative legal scholars who believe the Constitution gives the president the power to outlaw abortion, despite the Supreme Court's many rulings on the matter.


*sigh*
Yargh
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
August 16 2015 19:18 GMT
#44052
Well, Huckabee isn't planning to get elected anyways, just boost the ratings for when he goes back to Fox.
Pesky idiots.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
ZasZ.
Profile Joined May 2010
United States2911 Posts
August 16 2015 20:45 GMT
#44053
On August 17 2015 03:02 IgnE wrote:
There is a real and accurate sentiment that being human means nothing and the only way to change that is to have a destitute, sub-human class and a real, human minority with access to things like a stable job, living wages, fulfilling relationships, good health, and a stake in society.


Rather than snarky platitudes, what is your suggestion? What does "being a human" mean? Your post is jibberish and I find it hard to believe that a majority of Americans lack all five things you listed there.

It is not difficult to graduate high school, but I wouldn't be opposed to a change so that it was. Children should be challenged on an individual level, the problem is getting it to that point.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
August 16 2015 20:59 GMT
#44054
On August 17 2015 04:14 JinDesu wrote:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/huckabee-abortion-10-year-old-rape-incest-victim_55d0a275e4b07addcb433a4a?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000013&section=politics

Show nested quote +
GOP presidential candidate Mike Huckabee supports Paraguay's decision to deny an abortion to a 10-year-old rape victim, he revealed in an interview Sunday.

In an appearance on CNN's "State of the Union," the former Arkansas governor argued that the Paraguayan government's refusal to allow an abortion for the now-11-year-old, who gave birth last week after being raped by her stepfather, prevented a second tragedy.

"Let nobody be misled, a 10-year-old girl being raped is horrible, but does it solve a problem by taking the life of an innocent child?" he asked. He added later, "When I think about one horror, I also think about the possibilities that exist and I just don't want to think that somehow we discounted a human life ... Let's not compound the tragedy by taking yet another life."


Show nested quote +
Huckabee has taken a firm stance against abortion and suggested last month that he wouldn't rule out using federal troops to stop women from accessing the procedure. He also identifies with a small group of conservative legal scholars who believe the Constitution gives the president the power to outlaw abortion, despite the Supreme Court's many rulings on the matter.


*sigh*
That sentiment is very common amongst his Bible Belt support. Now, the legal prohibition I suspect is a minority view. It's common to let that rape victim make the choice, even believing that choosing to end that life (acknowledgement to what others would consider a parasite here) is a second tragedy.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-16 22:25:30
August 16 2015 22:23 GMT
#44055
On August 17 2015 05:45 ZasZ. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2015 03:02 IgnE wrote:
There is a real and accurate sentiment that being human means nothing and the only way to change that is to have a destitute, sub-human class and a real, human minority with access to things like a stable job, living wages, fulfilling relationships, good health, and a stake in society.


Rather than snarky platitudes, what is your suggestion? What does "being a human" mean? Your post is jibberish and I find it hard to believe that a majority of Americans lack all five things you listed there.

It is not difficult to graduate high school, but I wouldn't be opposed to a change so that it was. Children should be challenged on an individual level, the problem is getting it to that point.


Apparently, he not only has distaste for income inequality and the like, he even has a distaste for the differentiation that even a socialist system would need to function. Its exactly the mindset that Harrison Bergeron was supposed to parody. Except, I never thought anyone believed it so fully until now.
Freeeeeeedom
ZeaL.
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States5955 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-16 22:33:59
August 16 2015 22:32 GMT
#44056
On August 17 2015 03:20 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
The latest numbers show that deaths from heroin-related overdose more than tripled nationally between 2002 and 2013. Opiate addiction touches every demographic: white, black, Hispanic, rural, suburban and urban.

Proposed solutions nationally include more government funding for treatment, tougher penalties for dealers, and proactive interventions to stop people before they start.

Now, a couple of parents who lost their son to a heroin overdose are pointing out that drug addiction doesn't tend to be treated like a disease in the United States — which means that when drug users want to get treatment, health insurance coverage often comes up short.

And until the prevailing thinking changes, these parents say, progress will only be made on the edges.


Source


This is just a symptom of America's addiction to prescription opioid pain medications. A lot of these heroin overdoses start off with vicodin/oxycodon in the ER or hospital, followed by opioids in pill form at home, and then after being labeled as a pain seeker, heroin. The one silver lining is that this is starting to affect white suburbia so maybe someone will actually take some action in tackling this issue.
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-16 22:36:30
August 16 2015 22:34 GMT
#44057
No it's not about differentiation per se. It's about your cavalier attitude towards something that is required for basically every single job above minimum wage in today's society. Your attitude is representative of policy that entrenches a distinct inequality in opportunity. You are for what amounts to class screening but masquerades as meritocracy.
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-17 04:53:47
August 17 2015 04:52 GMT
#44058
On August 17 2015 04:14 JinDesu wrote:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/huckabee-abortion-10-year-old-rape-incest-victim_55d0a275e4b07addcb433a4a?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000013&section=politics

Show nested quote +
GOP presidential candidate Mike Huckabee supports Paraguay's decision to deny an abortion to a 10-year-old rape victim, he revealed in an interview Sunday.

In an appearance on CNN's "State of the Union," the former Arkansas governor argued that the Paraguayan government's refusal to allow an abortion for the now-11-year-old, who gave birth last week after being raped by her stepfather, prevented a second tragedy.

"Let nobody be misled, a 10-year-old girl being raped is horrible, but does it solve a problem by taking the life of an innocent child?" he asked. He added later, "When I think about one horror, I also think about the possibilities that exist and I just don't want to think that somehow we discounted a human life ... Let's not compound the tragedy by taking yet another life."


Show nested quote +
Huckabee has taken a firm stance against abortion and suggested last month that he wouldn't rule out using federal troops to stop women from accessing the procedure. He also identifies with a small group of conservative legal scholars who believe the Constitution gives the president the power to outlaw abortion, despite the Supreme Court's many rulings on the matter.


*sigh*


It's okay, the man is so far from becoming the POTUS that he's probably more likely to be elected in Burundi or something.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
August 17 2015 05:13 GMT
#44059
On August 17 2015 07:34 IgnE wrote:
No it's not about differentiation per se. It's about your cavalier attitude towards something that is required for basically every single job above minimum wage in today's society. Your attitude is representative of policy that entrenches a distinct inequality in opportunity. You are for what amounts to class screening but masquerades as meritocracy.


The command and control style of public education is the most representative thing in Western Society of equality of opportunity. Plus, differentiation of talent is actually repressed within the education system so someone who is 10% ahead of his/her classmates will appear to be much less than that.

Plus, employers would obviously adjust expectations to changes in graduation rates. Things that merely require a HS diploma would likely not, Associates degrees would be almost entirely replaced (because the function they serve currently is what the HS Diploma should serve), and failing to get a college degree would not necessarily lock you out of a huge % of professions as it currently does.
Freeeeeeedom
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
12120 Posts
August 17 2015 06:23 GMT
#44060
On August 17 2015 14:13 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2015 07:34 IgnE wrote:
No it's not about differentiation per se. It's about your cavalier attitude towards something that is required for basically every single job above minimum wage in today's society. Your attitude is representative of policy that entrenches a distinct inequality in opportunity. You are for what amounts to class screening but masquerades as meritocracy.


The command and control style of public education is the most representative thing in Western Society of equality of opportunity. Plus, differentiation of talent is actually repressed within the education system so someone who is 10% ahead of his/her classmates will appear to be much less than that.

Plus, employers would obviously adjust expectations to changes in graduation rates. Things that merely require a HS diploma would likely not, Associates degrees would be almost entirely replaced (because the function they serve currently is what the HS Diploma should serve), and failing to get a college degree would not necessarily lock you out of a huge % of professions as it currently does.


Assuming that happens it sounds like a healthier society. As long as the entry positions has a possibility to lead to future positions of a higher grade assuming you perform well and show a drive for improvement.

Needing a degree for basic entry positions just leads to inflation in degrees that aren't relevant for the work at hand much of the time. I can see it in Sweden where a position where they used to pick people from the workshop floor for now requires a master degree. The change happening in only 10-15 years.
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