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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23172 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-06 18:15:54
February 06 2015 18:11 GMT
#32541
Anyone else find it odd the ISIS Jordanian pilot video is still on Fox News even after ISIS sympathizers have tweeted out links bragging about how it isn't being taken down?

Fox News is working for the terrorists in a way no other network or media distributor is...?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Sub40APM
Profile Joined August 2010
6336 Posts
February 06 2015 19:23 GMT
#32542
On February 07 2015 02:46 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Wow.

Show nested quote +
A senior Israeli official is now implying that House Speaker John Boehner led Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to believe that his invitation for the prime minister to speak before Congress in March was bipartisan, according to Reuters.

"It appears that the speaker of Congress made a move, in which we trusted, but which it ultimately became clear was a one sided move and not a move by both sides," Deputy Israeli Foreign Minister Tzachi Hanegbi said Friday on a Tel Aviv radio program, per the news outlet.

Then, via Reuters:

The interviewer asked if that meant Netanyahu had been "misled" into believing Boehner's invitation was bipartisan, a characterization Hanegbi did not contest.

Boehner's invitation for Netanyahu to speak on Iran, extended without consultation with the White House, has stirred partisan tensions. The White House called it a breach of diplomatic protocol. House Democrats have met with Israeli Ambassador Ron Dermer to register their displeasure, and some have said they will boycott the speech.

Nonetheless, Hanegbi indicated that Netanyahu would still make the March 3 speech, which also comes two weeks before Israeli elections. He said that the speech could still help secure the two-thirds vote needed to override President Obama's promised veto on any new sanctions on Iran.


Source

who is more delusional, Bohner or Netanyahu if he really believes that "
Nonetheless, Hanegbi indicated that Netanyahu would still make the March 3 speech, which also comes two weeks before Israeli elections. He said that the speech could still help secure the two-thirds vote needed to override President Obama's promised veto on any new sanctions on Iran."
Chewbacca.
Profile Joined January 2011
United States3634 Posts
February 06 2015 19:49 GMT
#32543
On February 07 2015 03:11 GreenHorizons wrote:
Anyone else find it odd the ISIS Jordanian pilot video is still on Fox News even after ISIS sympathizers have tweeted out links bragging about how it isn't being taken down?

Fox News is working for the terrorists in a way no other network or media distributor is...?

News sites are supposed to report the news...the ones changing how they act because terrorists are doing something are the ones who should be condemned?
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
February 06 2015 19:57 GMT
#32544
WASHINGTON -- The Obama administration's new national security strategy, released Friday, puts a top priority on climate change, calling it "an urgent and growing threat."

Climate change, the strategy says, is "contributing to increased natural disasters, refugee flows, and conflicts over basic resources like food and water."

The strategy lists climate change as one of eight "top strategic risks" to U.S. interests, along with a catastrophic attack on the U.S., threats or attacks against citizens abroad, and the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction.

"The present day effects of climate change are being felt from the Arctic to the Midwest. Increased sea levels and storm surges threaten coastal regions, infrastructure, and property," states the strategy. "In turn, the global economy suffers, compounding the growing costs of preparing and restoring infrastructure."

The strategy touts the commitment the U.S. has made to cutting emissions 26 to 28 percent below 2005 levels by 2025, as well as the work on developing "an ambitious new global climate change agreement."

"It's a strategy to promote our values in a world where no ocean, no fence, and no firewall can shield us from the reality of threats across the globe," said Secretary of State John Kerry in a statement Friday. "In the 21st Century, next door is everywhere."


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23172 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-06 20:11:56
February 06 2015 20:11 GMT
#32545
On February 07 2015 04:49 Chewbacca. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 07 2015 03:11 GreenHorizons wrote:
Anyone else find it odd the ISIS Jordanian pilot video is still on Fox News even after ISIS sympathizers have tweeted out links bragging about how it isn't being taken down?

Fox News is working for the terrorists in a way no other network or media distributor is...?

News sites are supposed to report the news...the ones changing how they act because terrorists are doing something are the ones who should be condemned?


It's more about they are hosting the video ISIS is trying to spread that no one else will host?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
coverpunch
Profile Joined December 2011
United States2093 Posts
February 06 2015 22:51 GMT
#32546
Obama administration's national security strategy:

President Obama plans to release his second, and final, national security strategy on Friday, laying out a blueprint for robust American leadership for his remaining time in office while recognizing limits on how much the United States can shape world events.

By issuing the strategy at a time when critics have accused him of being too reluctant to assert American power, Mr. Obama will defend his handling of crises like those in the Middle East and Ukraine. But he will argue that the urgent demands of combating the Islamic State and countering President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia need to be balanced with a focus on long-term challenges like climate change, global health and cyberattacks.

“The question is never whether America should lead, but how we should lead,” Mr. Obama writes in an introduction to the document, a report that seems to mix legacy with strategy. In taking on terrorists, he argues that the United States should avoid the deployment of large ground forces like those sent more than a decade ago to Iraq and Afghanistan. In spreading democratic values, he says, America should fight corruption and reach out to young people.

“On all these fronts, America leads from a position of strength,” he writes. “But this does not mean we can or should attempt to dictate the trajectory of all unfolding events around the world. As powerful as we are and will remain, our resources and influence are not infinite. And in a complex world, many of the security problems we face do not lend themselves to quick and easy fixes.”

Such arguments are not likely to satisfy critics, and even some of Mr. Obama’s advisers have pressed him to be more active in responding to the shorter-term crises. At a confirmation hearing on Wednesday for Ashton B. Carter, the nominee for defense secretary, Republicans repeatedly bemoaned what they called the lack of a coherent policy...

Mr. Carter indicated that he, too, might press Mr. Obama in favor of more assertive policies in some instances. Asked about sending arms to Ukraine to fight Russian-backed rebels, an idea that Mr. Obama has so far rebuffed, Mr. Carter said, “I very much incline in that direction.”

The leadership criticism clearly grates on a White House that points out that Mr. Obama ordered the raid that killed Osama bin Laden. The administration has tried for years to live down a statement from an unidentified official that characterized the president’s approach as “leading from behind.”

“There is this line of criticism that we are not leading, and it makes no sense,” said Benjamin J. Rhodes, a deputy national security adviser. “Who built the effort against ISIL? Who organized the sanctions on Russia? Who put together the international approach on Ebola?”

The 29-page document, required by Congress, uses the words “lead,” “leadership” or variations nearly 100 times.

The strategy lists eight top strategic risks to the United States, starting with a catastrophic attack at home but including threats like climate change, disruptions in the energy market and significant problems caused by weak or failing states.

Beyond those top risks, the document also focuses attention on a goal to eliminate global poverty within 15 years. And, for the first time, a national security strategy makes it a priority to promote the rights of gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people around the world.

At the same time, it outlines goals where the president may find common ground with Republicans. Among other things, it argues for lifting budget caps to increase military spending, standing up to Chinese territorial assertions and promoting free-trade pacts with Asia and Europe that the Obama administration is negotiating.

Obama desperately wants a deal to show his chops on nuclear nonproliferation, but there is no deal on the table with Russia and the talks with Iran are not going well. Even if he got a deal, Senate Republicans are already signaling that it's not good enough, that they think the administration has already given away too many concessions and they know he needs to give away more to even get a deal to present.
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
February 07 2015 01:13 GMT
#32547
iran is on the backburner, so is nonproliferation. it's a republican/netanyahu talking point atm. obama wants to tackle isis
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
February 07 2015 03:40 GMT
#32548
Except the other players Europe, even Mossad would rather have a deal and has advised Boehner not to allow the speech. Netanyahu is just using the speech for his disdain of Obama, and hopes for an election boost, and Boehner to spite Obama but also feed the far right in his party which is increasingly becoming the majority of the GOP. An American Likud party one could gather.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
coverpunch
Profile Joined December 2011
United States2093 Posts
February 07 2015 11:13 GMT
#32549
The Israelis take a step back but they won't stop Netanyahu's speech.

A senior Israeli official suggested on Friday that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu had been misled into thinking an invitation to address the U.S. Congress on Iran next month was fully supported by the Democrats.

Netanyahu was invited by the Republican speaker of the house, John Boehner, to address Congress on March 3, an invitation Boehner originally described as bipartisan.

The move angered the White House, which is upset about the event coming two weeks before Israeli elections and the fact that Netanyahu, who has a testy relationship with President Obama, is expected to be critical of U.S. policy on Iran.

"It appears that the speaker of Congress made a move, in which we trusted, but which it ultimately became clear was a one sided move and not a move by both sides," Deputy Israeli Foreign Minister Tzachi Hanegbi told 102 FM Tel Aviv Radio on Friday.

The interviewer asked if that meant Netanyahu had been "misled" into believing Boehner's invitation was bipartisan, a characterisation Hanegbi did not contest.

Asked whether the prime minister should cancel or postpone the speech, Hanegbi said: "What would the outcome be then? The outcome would be that we forsake an arena in which there is a going to be a very dramatic decision (on Iran)."

Translation: They didn't expect Democrats to be so butthurt about this, but they won't cancel the speech because the Israelis really do want sanctions on Iran and would rather have no deal than a soft one.

Acknowledging that Democrats had been "pained" by the invitation, Hanegbi said Netanyahu and Israeli emissaries were making "a huge effort to make clear to them that this is not a move that flouts the president of the United States".

Yet Hanegbi said the address to Congress could help pass a bill, opposed by Obama, for new U.S. sanctions on Iran.

"The Republicans know, as the president has already made clear, that he will veto this legislation. So in order to pass legislation that overcomes the veto, two-thirds are required in the Senate. So if the prime minister can persuade another one or two or another three or four, this could have weight," he said.

Hanegbi said he was not aware of any Israeli polling that showed the speech would help Netanyahu in the March 17 election, where Likud is running neck-and-neck against the centre-left.
Sub40APM
Profile Joined August 2010
6336 Posts
February 07 2015 11:48 GMT
#32550
On February 07 2015 20:13 coverpunch wrote:
The Israelis take a step back but they won't stop Netanyahu's speech.

Show nested quote +
A senior Israeli official suggested on Friday that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu had been misled into thinking an invitation to address the U.S. Congress on Iran next month was fully supported by the Democrats.

Netanyahu was invited by the Republican speaker of the house, John Boehner, to address Congress on March 3, an invitation Boehner originally described as bipartisan.

The move angered the White House, which is upset about the event coming two weeks before Israeli elections and the fact that Netanyahu, who has a testy relationship with President Obama, is expected to be critical of U.S. policy on Iran.

"It appears that the speaker of Congress made a move, in which we trusted, but which it ultimately became clear was a one sided move and not a move by both sides," Deputy Israeli Foreign Minister Tzachi Hanegbi told 102 FM Tel Aviv Radio on Friday.

The interviewer asked if that meant Netanyahu had been "misled" into believing Boehner's invitation was bipartisan, a characterisation Hanegbi did not contest.

Asked whether the prime minister should cancel or postpone the speech, Hanegbi said: "What would the outcome be then? The outcome would be that we forsake an arena in which there is a going to be a very dramatic decision (on Iran)."

Translation: They didn't expect Democrats to be so butthurt about this, but they won't cancel the speech because the Israelis really do want sanctions on Iran and would rather have no deal than a soft one.

Show nested quote +
Acknowledging that Democrats had been "pained" by the invitation, Hanegbi said Netanyahu and Israeli emissaries were making "a huge effort to make clear to them that this is not a move that flouts the president of the United States".

Yet Hanegbi said the address to Congress could help pass a bill, opposed by Obama, for new U.S. sanctions on Iran.

"The Republicans know, as the president has already made clear, that he will veto this legislation. So in order to pass legislation that overcomes the veto, two-thirds are required in the Senate. So if the prime minister can persuade another one or two or another three or four, this could have weight," he said.

Hanegbi said he was not aware of any Israeli polling that showed the speech would help Netanyahu in the March 17 election, where Likud is running neck-and-neck against the centre-left.

Its some real mental gymnastics here by spokesperson. "I cant imagine how my leader being shown in front of a happy US Congress looking all statesmen like would benefit him politically! But also he is such an excellent speaker that he will turn around enough democrats!"
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
February 07 2015 12:35 GMT
#32551
hope he gets embarrassed
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
coverpunch
Profile Joined December 2011
United States2093 Posts
February 07 2015 13:20 GMT
#32552
On February 07 2015 20:48 Sub40APM wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 07 2015 20:13 coverpunch wrote:
The Israelis take a step back but they won't stop Netanyahu's speech.

A senior Israeli official suggested on Friday that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu had been misled into thinking an invitation to address the U.S. Congress on Iran next month was fully supported by the Democrats.

Netanyahu was invited by the Republican speaker of the house, John Boehner, to address Congress on March 3, an invitation Boehner originally described as bipartisan.

The move angered the White House, which is upset about the event coming two weeks before Israeli elections and the fact that Netanyahu, who has a testy relationship with President Obama, is expected to be critical of U.S. policy on Iran.

"It appears that the speaker of Congress made a move, in which we trusted, but which it ultimately became clear was a one sided move and not a move by both sides," Deputy Israeli Foreign Minister Tzachi Hanegbi told 102 FM Tel Aviv Radio on Friday.

The interviewer asked if that meant Netanyahu had been "misled" into believing Boehner's invitation was bipartisan, a characterisation Hanegbi did not contest.

Asked whether the prime minister should cancel or postpone the speech, Hanegbi said: "What would the outcome be then? The outcome would be that we forsake an arena in which there is a going to be a very dramatic decision (on Iran)."

Translation: They didn't expect Democrats to be so butthurt about this, but they won't cancel the speech because the Israelis really do want sanctions on Iran and would rather have no deal than a soft one.

Acknowledging that Democrats had been "pained" by the invitation, Hanegbi said Netanyahu and Israeli emissaries were making "a huge effort to make clear to them that this is not a move that flouts the president of the United States".

Yet Hanegbi said the address to Congress could help pass a bill, opposed by Obama, for new U.S. sanctions on Iran.

"The Republicans know, as the president has already made clear, that he will veto this legislation. So in order to pass legislation that overcomes the veto, two-thirds are required in the Senate. So if the prime minister can persuade another one or two or another three or four, this could have weight," he said.

Hanegbi said he was not aware of any Israeli polling that showed the speech would help Netanyahu in the March 17 election, where Likud is running neck-and-neck against the centre-left.

Its some real mental gymnastics here by spokesperson. "I cant imagine how my leader being shown in front of a happy US Congress looking all statesmen like would benefit him politically! But also he is such an excellent speaker that he will turn around enough democrats!"

It is and I'm curious to see how it turns out. The US media and most commenters treat this story like it is obvious that it will blow up in Netanyahu's face. I wouldn't be so sure - Netanyahu didn't get to where he is by being stupid and Israel wields unusual influence in the US government. I still think he wanted this to happen and he'll get everything he wanted, and I think he's better at Congressional politics than anyone in Washington. Not that he has much competition in the likes of Boehner, McConnell, Pelosi, Reid, and Obama.
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-07 15:15:55
February 07 2015 14:07 GMT
#32553
good luck with that lol. a little speech wont change anything unless he has mindcontrol powers

netanyahu got to where he is because of israeli political climate, same as george bush getting elected twice because a large swath of the u.s. bought into evangelical chrisitan cultural war bullshit. that's not a statement on either guy's competence to win over the other side. please.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18825 Posts
February 07 2015 14:34 GMT
#32554
In an alternate dimension, Netanyahu beats the bad guy and gets the girl!
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
February 07 2015 18:27 GMT
#32555
On February 06 2015 10:28 IgnE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 06 2015 03:25 Millitron wrote:
On February 06 2015 03:06 GreenHorizons wrote:
On February 06 2015 03:02 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
In the first Affordable Care Act case three years ago, the Supreme Court had to decide whether Congress had the power, under the Commerce Clause or some other source of authority, to require individuals to buy health insurance. It was a question that went directly to the structure of American government and the allocation of power within the federal system.

The court very nearly got the answer wrong with an exceedingly narrow reading of Congress’s commerce power. As everyone remembers, Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr., himself a member of the anti-Commerce Clause five, saved the day by declaring that the penalty for not complying with the individual mandate was actually a tax, properly imposed under Congress’s tax power.

I thought the court was seriously misguided in denying Congress the power under the Commerce Clause to intervene in a sector of the economy that accounts for more than 17 percent of the gross national product. But even I have to concede that the debate over structure has deep roots in the country’s history and a legitimate claim on the Supreme Court’s attention. People will be debating it as long as the flag waves.

But the new Affordable Care Act case, King v. Burwell, to be argued four weeks from now, is different, a case of statutory, not constitutional, interpretation. The court has permitted itself to be recruited into the front lines of a partisan war. Not only the Affordable Care Act but the court itself is in peril as a result.

At the invitation of a group of people determined to render the Affordable Care Act unworkable (the nominal plaintiffs are four Virginia residents who can’t afford health insurance but who want to be declared ineligible for the federal tax subsidies that would make insurance affordable for them), the justices have agreed to decide whether the statute as written in fact refutes one of the several titles that Congress gave it: “Quality, Affordable Health Care for All Americans.”

If the Supreme Court agrees with the challengers, more than seven million people who bought their insurance in the 34 states where the federal government set up the marketplaces, known as exchanges, will lose their tax subsidies. The market for affordable individual health insurance will collapse in the face of shrinking numbers of insured people and skyrocketing premiums, the very “death spiral” that the Affordable Care Act was designed to prevent.


Source



It's just astounding to me that for years Republicans have been trying to scrap the ACA but they still don't have a plan for all the people they would be screwing out of coverage, capless plans, pre-exsisting conditions, etc...

Maybe they shouldn't have been given coverage in the first place though. Consider social security for a moment. Because so many people are now dependent on it, its practically political suicide to consider altering it in any meaningful way. It's conceivable that there could be serious problems with the institution that are now unfixable, because any politician who tried would be voted out immediately. This is the danger with entitlements.


I have a solution for social security so that it can continue to pay out its expected benefits past the supposed year in the mid 2030's that it might not have enough cash flow. Just remove the social security cap for earners over $115k or whatever it is. As it is now, 5-6% of Americans don't pay social security tax on a sizable portion of their income since they earn significantly more than the cap. If we removed the cap we wouldn't have tax revenue problems, and social security would stop being a regressive tax on America's lowest earners.

I think it's a bit unfair to call social security a regressive tax. Nominally your employer pays into it as well. If you want to get into complicated things like tax incidence we should probably look at the program as a whole, which is progressive and beneficial to a lot of people.

I imagine some amount of bracket creep / means testing to keep the system solvent. I'd like to see DI reforms and inflation indexing changes as well. Yeah, we could just raise taxes more instead of doing that, but really, there's a limit to how much the government is going to be able to tax and entitlements / benefits have been given the priority for too long already. If you look at entitlement spending over the last few decades just about everything else has been pushed aside to make room for entitlements. I think that has often been a mistake.
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
February 07 2015 18:50 GMT
#32556
What has been pushed aside to make room for entitlement spending?
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23172 Posts
February 07 2015 19:07 GMT
#32557
If a few wealthy people didn't have the vast majority of wealth, social programs wouldn't need to be as large or common. The vast majority of American's are fighting over scraps, a shred of the wealth moved this way or that while the massive amounts of wealth largely doesn't go anywhere.

[image loading]

Blows my mind to think people look at something like this and come away with "Those bottom 80% have too much, we can't sustain giving them so much of the wealth..."

The top 1%'s wealth could be cut in half and they would still have more wealth than 80% of Americans have combined. Yet here and elsewhere we have people (Republicans/Conservatives) arguing that we need to cut the 80%'s wealth down because that's the unsustainable part...
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
February 07 2015 19:15 GMT
#32558
On February 08 2015 03:50 IgnE wrote:
What has been pushed aside to make room for entitlement spending?

Just about everything that isn't. Defense, transportation, higher ed, R&D, etc.

A nice chart from NPR on Federal spending: http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/05/14/152671813/50-years-of-government-spending-in-1-graph

Bill Gates gave a good TED talk on pensions / healthcare costs affecting state budgets, to the detriment of education, a few years back: http://www.ted.com/talks/bill_gates_how_state_budgets_are_breaking_us_schools?language=en
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
February 07 2015 19:16 GMT
#32559
On February 08 2015 04:07 GreenHorizons wrote:
If a few wealthy people didn't have the vast majority of wealth, social programs wouldn't need to be as large or common. The vast majority of American's are fighting over scraps, a shred of the wealth moved this way or that while the massive amounts of wealth largely doesn't go anywhere.

[image loading]

Blows my mind to think people look at something like this and come away with "Those bottom 80% have too much, we can't sustain giving them so much of the wealth..."

The top 1%'s wealth could be cut in half and they would still have more wealth than 80% of Americans have combined. Yet here and elsewhere we have people (Republicans/Conservatives) arguing that we need to cut the 80%'s wealth down because that's the unsustainable part...

Wealth =/= income. Your post makes no sense.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23172 Posts
February 07 2015 19:18 GMT
#32560
Anyone know how to get wealth without income?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
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