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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
February 05 2015 03:30 GMT
#32461
Florida Attorney Steve Medina has been working on a case, pro bono, to expose the environmental corruption which has been taking place in Tallahassee and Putnam County, Florida.

Tons of toxic waste is being dumped into St. Johns River, daily, by the Koch Brothers company, Georgia-Pacific. Aspects of the deal allowing Georgia Pacific to massively assault the environment, were misleading, sometimes illegal, and unbeknownst to the local citizens. Florida Governor Rick Scott and former Governor (and Republican presidential hopeful), Jeb Bush, are also involved.

Last week, Steve Medina sent me the information below to break the story. The corruption evolves and unravels in a complicated and insidious manner and spans for about a decade, so enjoy the read. All of Medina’s reporting is backed up via extensive public records and court documents. With his permission, here is Steve Medina’s story:

We have learned recently that Florida Governor *Rick “Fifth Amendment” Scott is, how shall we say, ethically-challenged. Actually, that has been known for a long time, but who’s counting the past, this is Florida, land of forgiveness, opportunity, and no state income tax! Give them your relaxed, your wealthy, your huddled plutocrats yearning to breathe free. Put your wretched refuse beneath their teaming shores. Send these, the multi-homed, tempest-tossed, to them: Their elected officials snuff out their lamp beside the golden door.You may know Florida’s immediately past commissioner of the Florida Department of Law Enforcement seems to have been given the heave ho by Governor Scott not only for patently political reasons but without particular attention to Florida law. http://www.dailykos.com/… (In Florida, if you are Governor Scott, perhaps you would not want an FDLE commissioner who actually investigates things, especially potential white collar crimes involving public corruption.)

Meanwhile, you probably don’t know that, for the past two years, thanks to Governor Scott, a veritable fountainhead of toxic waste has been directly dumped every day into the heart of “Florida’s American Heritage River,” http://upf.com/… the St. Johns. As discussed below, it is released through what is contended in a legal action to be an illegally-approved pipeline, the circumstances of which Governor Scott, as the current chairperson of Florida’s Trustees of the Internal Improvement Trust Fund, refuses to investigate.

To investigate these circumstances would be to investigate the highly questionable actions of yet another state agency, the Florida Department of Environmental Protection. These actions in turn reach back into the Jeb Bush administration (1999-2007), when then Governor Bush and the Florida Cabinet, over the objection of then Attorney General Charlie Crist, gave preliminary approval for a Georgia-Pacific pipeline from its Palatka paper mill to the St. Johns River.


Tons of toxic waste travel through the pipe to the heart of the St. Johns River every day. The approval was “finalized” through what Florida citizens and environmental groups are calling a grossly misleading newspaper public notice that aimed to cut-off public challenges to the pipeline easement, which the Trustees’ agent, the FDEP, eventually granted.

Ironically, or maybe not, the benefactors of the spewing are Charles G. and David Koch, the foremost, or at least two of the richest, purveyors of “freedom” according to Ayn Rand. Since late 2005, Koch Industries has owned Georgia-Pacific. It began buying up Georgia-Pacific assets the year before. http://www.nytimes.com/… The Koch Brothers have since been active in educating Georgia-Pacific employees about the right way to vote.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
February 05 2015 03:46 GMT
#32462
On February 05 2015 12:30 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
Florida Attorney Steve Medina has been working on a case, pro bono, to expose the environmental corruption which has been taking place in Tallahassee and Putnam County, Florida.

Tons of toxic waste is being dumped into St. Johns River, daily, by the Koch Brothers company, Georgia-Pacific. Aspects of the deal allowing Georgia Pacific to massively assault the environment, were misleading, sometimes illegal, and unbeknownst to the local citizens. Florida Governor Rick Scott and former Governor (and Republican presidential hopeful), Jeb Bush, are also involved.

Last week, Steve Medina sent me the information below to break the story. The corruption evolves and unravels in a complicated and insidious manner and spans for about a decade, so enjoy the read. All of Medina’s reporting is backed up via extensive public records and court documents. With his permission, here is Steve Medina’s story:

We have learned recently that Florida Governor *Rick “Fifth Amendment” Scott is, how shall we say, ethically-challenged. Actually, that has been known for a long time, but who’s counting the past, this is Florida, land of forgiveness, opportunity, and no state income tax! Give them your relaxed, your wealthy, your huddled plutocrats yearning to breathe free. Put your wretched refuse beneath their teaming shores. Send these, the multi-homed, tempest-tossed, to them: Their elected officials snuff out their lamp beside the golden door.You may know Florida’s immediately past commissioner of the Florida Department of Law Enforcement seems to have been given the heave ho by Governor Scott not only for patently political reasons but without particular attention to Florida law. http://www.dailykos.com/… (In Florida, if you are Governor Scott, perhaps you would not want an FDLE commissioner who actually investigates things, especially potential white collar crimes involving public corruption.)

Meanwhile, you probably don’t know that, for the past two years, thanks to Governor Scott, a veritable fountainhead of toxic waste has been directly dumped every day into the heart of “Florida’s American Heritage River,” http://upf.com/… the St. Johns. As discussed below, it is released through what is contended in a legal action to be an illegally-approved pipeline, the circumstances of which Governor Scott, as the current chairperson of Florida’s Trustees of the Internal Improvement Trust Fund, refuses to investigate.

To investigate these circumstances would be to investigate the highly questionable actions of yet another state agency, the Florida Department of Environmental Protection. These actions in turn reach back into the Jeb Bush administration (1999-2007), when then Governor Bush and the Florida Cabinet, over the objection of then Attorney General Charlie Crist, gave preliminary approval for a Georgia-Pacific pipeline from its Palatka paper mill to the St. Johns River.


Tons of toxic waste travel through the pipe to the heart of the St. Johns River every day. The approval was “finalized” through what Florida citizens and environmental groups are calling a grossly misleading newspaper public notice that aimed to cut-off public challenges to the pipeline easement, which the Trustees’ agent, the FDEP, eventually granted.

Ironically, or maybe not, the benefactors of the spewing are Charles G. and David Koch, the foremost, or at least two of the richest, purveyors of “freedom” according to Ayn Rand. Since late 2005, Koch Industries has owned Georgia-Pacific. It began buying up Georgia-Pacific assets the year before. http://www.nytimes.com/… The Koch Brothers have since been active in educating Georgia-Pacific employees about the right way to vote.


Source

How come "Liberals Unite" uses the samuel-warde.com/ address?
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23160 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-05 05:14:35
February 05 2015 04:25 GMT
#32463
On February 05 2015 11:30 IgnE wrote:
This is just typical jonny evasion. Just disagree with everything his opponent says until after 5 pages of back and forth he's backed into a corner and abruptly ends the conversation. It's tiresome. No one likes people who spend so much time avoiding what they think is the crux of the matter in an effort to either a) avoid taking a position or b) confuse the opposition.


I couldn't agree more. We aren't alone in such an assessment either. I had to just stop responding to the baits all together.

As far as the vaccine stuff, it appears that while outright anti-vaxers may be reasonably small it turns out the appeal to the "choice" is aimed at a larger crowd.

[image loading]

Source

From an older Reason-Rupe poll

Forty-four percent disagree, saying unvaccinated kids should be allowed to attend public schools.


Source

And if Bill O's site is any measure it appears a significant portion of them watch Fox News.

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Source
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
February 05 2015 05:30 GMT
#32464
Israeli Ambassador Ron Dermer and Knesset Speaker Yuli Edelstein rushed to meetings on Capitol Hill on Wednesday trying to calm a furor created by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s planned speech to Congress next month and quell a Democratic revolt that has dozens threatening a boycott.

It didn't work.

If anything, Democrats finished the day more frustrated. According to a source in the room, one Jewish Democratic member of Congress even accused Dermer of being insincere when he claimed not to have anticipated the partisan uproar he’d ignite when he skirted protocol and went around the White House and scheduled the speech only with House Speaker John Boehner.

White House press secretary Josh Earnest, meanwhile, dangled the possibility that the White House would have Vice President Joe Biden skip the speech in what the West Wing acknowledges would be a serious snub.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
February 05 2015 05:31 GMT
#32465
For the record, I agreed with jonny in principle that crucifying Rand Paul for a pandering throwaway line in an unscripted speech is not worth getting worked up about. But this stupid whack-a-mole game jonny forces on people who respond to him because he never sets forth a position is tiresome. I understand why you would want to occupy the infinite position of "Not A" if you were a lawyer in a courtroom jonny, but it makes conversations difficult when you are clearly pushing an agenda of some sort without ever affirming a positive.
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23160 Posts
February 05 2015 05:48 GMT
#32466
On February 05 2015 14:31 IgnE wrote:
For the record, I agreed with jonny in principle that crucifying Rand Paul for a pandering throwaway line in an unscripted speech is not worth getting worked up about. But this stupid whack-a-mole game jonny forces on people who respond to him because he never sets forth a position is tiresome. I understand why you would want to occupy the infinite position of "Not A" if you were a lawyer in a courtroom jonny, but it makes conversations difficult when you are clearly pushing an agenda of some sort without ever affirming a positive.


I agree pretty much, my curiosity was why would they even bother with that sort of pandering, then I found out the "choice" camp on vaccines is apparently significantly larger than the more noted hardcore anti-vax crowd.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
coverpunch
Profile Joined December 2011
United States2093 Posts
February 05 2015 05:50 GMT
#32467
On February 05 2015 14:30 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
Israeli Ambassador Ron Dermer and Knesset Speaker Yuli Edelstein rushed to meetings on Capitol Hill on Wednesday trying to calm a furor created by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s planned speech to Congress next month and quell a Democratic revolt that has dozens threatening a boycott.

It didn't work.

If anything, Democrats finished the day more frustrated. According to a source in the room, one Jewish Democratic member of Congress even accused Dermer of being insincere when he claimed not to have anticipated the partisan uproar he’d ignite when he skirted protocol and went around the White House and scheduled the speech only with House Speaker John Boehner.

White House press secretary Josh Earnest, meanwhile, dangled the possibility that the White House would have Vice President Joe Biden skip the speech in what the West Wing acknowledges would be a serious snub.


Source

This kind of stuff is why the Israelis are simultaneously the best and worst country in the world when it comes to global politics. It looks to me like Netanyahu got exactly what he wanted, which is his brand of "there's no such thing as bad publicity" and casting himself domestically as a victim of American partisan politics, even when he's right in the thick of it. It remains to be seen if he'll get what he really wants, which is a more aggressive US going after its enemies. It will also be curious if this does lasting damage to US attitudes toward Israel or if all these Democrats will be falling over themselves to support Israel when it becomes an issue for their presidential nominees.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
February 05 2015 06:06 GMT
#32468
On February 05 2015 14:30 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
Israeli Ambassador Ron Dermer and Knesset Speaker Yuli Edelstein rushed to meetings on Capitol Hill on Wednesday trying to calm a furor created by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s planned speech to Congress next month and quell a Democratic revolt that has dozens threatening a boycott.

It didn't work.

If anything, Democrats finished the day more frustrated. According to a source in the room, one Jewish Democratic member of Congress even accused Dermer of being insincere when he claimed not to have anticipated the partisan uproar he’d ignite when he skirted protocol and went around the White House and scheduled the speech only with House Speaker John Boehner.

White House press secretary Josh Earnest, meanwhile, dangled the possibility that the White House would have Vice President Joe Biden skip the speech in what the West Wing acknowledges would be a serious snub.


Source
I don't see how it should matter to Netanyahu if he's snubbed by congressional Democrats. His support in the US is Israel's friends in the constituency of both parties, not dependent on pleasing their leaders. Obama has shown a very weak stance on Iranian nukes which already puts him at odds with Israel's position. It's almost an echo of his increasing irrelevance in the world stage seeing his state department bypassed for the DC stage.

On February 05 2015 14:31 IgnE wrote:
For the record, I agreed with jonny in principle that crucifying Rand Paul for a pandering throwaway line in an unscripted speech is not worth getting worked up about. But this stupid whack-a-mole game jonny forces on people who respond to him because he never sets forth a position is tiresome. I understand why you would want to occupy the infinite position of "Not A" if you were a lawyer in a courtroom jonny, but it makes conversations difficult when you are clearly pushing an agenda of some sort without ever affirming a positive.
For the record, the previous couple pages of his responses and back and forths were an entertaining read. Some arguments were insufficient on their face or outright ignored important facets of the issue. It isn't so much a search to post something Jonny agrees with than to make a compelling, reasoned case not filled with ignorance (to Republican policy positions, aspects of the issue at hand, previous comments deliberately misinterpreted). You and others can turn that frustration inward and develop better arguments when you find they're based on questionable grounds.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
kwizach
Profile Joined June 2011
3658 Posts
February 05 2015 06:11 GMT
#32469
On February 05 2015 14:31 IgnE wrote:
[...] But this stupid whack-a-mole game jonny forces on people who respond to him because he never sets forth a position is tiresome. I understand why you would want to occupy the infinite position of "Not A" if you were a lawyer in a courtroom jonny, but it makes conversations difficult when you are clearly pushing an agenda of some sort without ever affirming a positive.

Exactly.

On February 05 2015 10:53 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 05 2015 10:46 wei2coolman wrote:
If republicans were scientifically literate they would could have been far more nefarious with spread of misinformation in regards to vaccination "issue" (I put it on quotes, because it's not really an issue), and framed the debate around children who might be allergic to ingredients in vaccination ( a very real thing) as opposed "autism (mental disorder, since this tends to be the new buzzword that replaced autism) induced vaccination". But, then again, if they were scientifically literate they wouldn't of taken such a stance in the first place.

They didn't. Rand Paul, in one fraction of one sentence, made a statement that could be interpreted that way. However, he clarified that he did not support the idea that vaccines caused autism.

Rand Paul said, and I quote, "I've heard of many tragic cases of walking, talking normal children who wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines."

Does he still say that vaccines are "a good thing" and that he doesn't believe they're "a bad idea"? Sure. But that sentence clearly implies a causation link between "winding up with profound mental disorders" and "getting a vaccine", even if it's a very rare occurrence. He backtracked afterwards, but it's not a matter of us distorting or interpreting poorly Paul's statement - he implied a causal link. His statement is akin to saying "I've heard of many tragic cases of walking, talking normal adults who wound up with profound HIV virus infections after getting cereals for breakfast". He simply would not have made that statement, or at least would have clarified that there was obviously no causal link between the two, if he didn't want to imply that the two were related.
"Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions." -- Stephen Colbert
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23160 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-05 06:22:52
February 05 2015 06:12 GMT
#32470
On February 05 2015 14:50 coverpunch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 05 2015 14:30 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Israeli Ambassador Ron Dermer and Knesset Speaker Yuli Edelstein rushed to meetings on Capitol Hill on Wednesday trying to calm a furor created by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s planned speech to Congress next month and quell a Democratic revolt that has dozens threatening a boycott.

It didn't work.

If anything, Democrats finished the day more frustrated. According to a source in the room, one Jewish Democratic member of Congress even accused Dermer of being insincere when he claimed not to have anticipated the partisan uproar he’d ignite when he skirted protocol and went around the White House and scheduled the speech only with House Speaker John Boehner.

White House press secretary Josh Earnest, meanwhile, dangled the possibility that the White House would have Vice President Joe Biden skip the speech in what the West Wing acknowledges would be a serious snub.


Source

This kind of stuff is why the Israelis are simultaneously the best and worst country in the world when it comes to global politics. It looks to me like Netanyahu got exactly what he wanted, which is his brand of "there's no such thing as bad publicity" and casting himself domestically as a victim of American partisan politics, even when he's right in the thick of it. It remains to be seen if he'll get what he really wants, which is a more aggressive US going after its enemies. It will also be curious if this does lasting damage to US attitudes toward Israel or if all these Democrats will be falling over themselves to support Israel when it becomes an issue for their presidential nominees.



What's funny is all that has been going on has meant practically no one has been reporting on the RNC's Israel trip all expense paid by an anti-Jewish American group.

In November, RNC Chairman Reince Priebus sent an email inviting committee members to attend the trip, which senior committee official Sean Spicer described Monday as “an opportunity [for participants] to see some of the historical sights of Israel and to advance their understanding of U.S.-Israel relations.” Time first reported on the trip in December and cited an RNC official who said that 60 committee members had RSVP’d to attend.

Spicer declined to name the committee members who are on the trip.

The visit is sponsored by the American Renewal Project, a group founded by evangelical activist David Lane, along with the AFA, a Christian group to which it has ties.

Lane has disparaged the “false God of Mormonism” and written that “Homosexual desire and marriage is unnatural and — more so — is a symptom of advanced cultural decay and precursor to the collapse of the Republican Party and the nation.” He has also professed his belief that “Christians must be retrained to war for the Soul of America and quit believing the fabricated whopper of the ‘Separation of Church and State.’” Attempts to reach American Renewal Project on Monday were unsuccessful.

The AFA has also come under criticism, in large part because of controversial remarks by Bryan Fischer, who until recently was a spokesman and director for the group. On multiple occasions, he has compared LGBT rights activists to the Nazi Party, saying in 2011, “They are Nazis. Do not be under any illusions about what homosexual activists will do with your freedoms and your religion if they have the opportunity. They’ll do the same thing to you that the Nazis did to their opponents in Nazi Germany.”


Source

When someone who calls the LGBT community Nazi's invites you on an all expense paid trip to Israel, as tempting as it may be for the RNC, the right answer is no. The inviting group aren't big fans of Americans of different brands of religion than theirs in general either (ironically including Judaism).

Now they are trying to "No comment" their way out of it...
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
February 05 2015 06:16 GMT
#32471
On February 05 2015 15:06 Danglars wrote:For the record, the previous couple pages of his responses and back and forths were an entertaining read. Some arguments were insufficient on their face or outright ignored important facets of the issue. It isn't so much a search to post something Jonny agrees with than to make a compelling, reasoned case not filled with ignorance (to Republican policy positions, aspects of the issue at hand, previous comments deliberately misinterpreted). You and others can turn that frustration inward and develop better arguments when you find they're based on questionable grounds.

More accurately, the last couple of pages is what happens when people decide to argue and make a big deal out of a virtual non-story.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
February 05 2015 08:18 GMT
#32472
On February 05 2015 15:16 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 05 2015 15:06 Danglars wrote:For the record, the previous couple pages of his responses and back and forths were an entertaining read. Some arguments were insufficient on their face or outright ignored important facets of the issue. It isn't so much a search to post something Jonny agrees with than to make a compelling, reasoned case not filled with ignorance (to Republican policy positions, aspects of the issue at hand, previous comments deliberately misinterpreted). You and others can turn that frustration inward and develop better arguments when you find they're based on questionable grounds.

More accurately, the last couple of pages is what happens when people decide to argue and make a big deal out of a virtual non-story.

I think people were more angry that this non-story even happened. It's the fucking 21st century, and public figure heads are arguing over the efficacy of vaccinations, and trying to turn a public health issue into a political football about State control.
liftlift > tsm
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
February 05 2015 15:09 GMT
#32473
it is funny how conservatives are quick to identify the potential consequences of something like gmo labeling yet fail to recognize the problem of handing public health over to cultists
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
February 05 2015 16:06 GMT
#32474
I think it'd be more fun to talk about Brian Williams going down spectacularly in flames.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
February 05 2015 18:02 GMT
#32475
In the first Affordable Care Act case three years ago, the Supreme Court had to decide whether Congress had the power, under the Commerce Clause or some other source of authority, to require individuals to buy health insurance. It was a question that went directly to the structure of American government and the allocation of power within the federal system.

The court very nearly got the answer wrong with an exceedingly narrow reading of Congress’s commerce power. As everyone remembers, Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr., himself a member of the anti-Commerce Clause five, saved the day by declaring that the penalty for not complying with the individual mandate was actually a tax, properly imposed under Congress’s tax power.

I thought the court was seriously misguided in denying Congress the power under the Commerce Clause to intervene in a sector of the economy that accounts for more than 17 percent of the gross national product. But even I have to concede that the debate over structure has deep roots in the country’s history and a legitimate claim on the Supreme Court’s attention. People will be debating it as long as the flag waves.

But the new Affordable Care Act case, King v. Burwell, to be argued four weeks from now, is different, a case of statutory, not constitutional, interpretation. The court has permitted itself to be recruited into the front lines of a partisan war. Not only the Affordable Care Act but the court itself is in peril as a result.

At the invitation of a group of people determined to render the Affordable Care Act unworkable (the nominal plaintiffs are four Virginia residents who can’t afford health insurance but who want to be declared ineligible for the federal tax subsidies that would make insurance affordable for them), the justices have agreed to decide whether the statute as written in fact refutes one of the several titles that Congress gave it: “Quality, Affordable Health Care for All Americans.”

If the Supreme Court agrees with the challengers, more than seven million people who bought their insurance in the 34 states where the federal government set up the marketplaces, known as exchanges, will lose their tax subsidies. The market for affordable individual health insurance will collapse in the face of shrinking numbers of insured people and skyrocketing premiums, the very “death spiral” that the Affordable Care Act was designed to prevent.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
February 05 2015 18:05 GMT
#32476
On February 06 2015 00:09 oneofthem wrote:
it is funny how conservatives are quick to identify the potential consequences of something like gmo labeling yet fail to recognize the problem of handing public health over to cultists

its funny how gmo and anti-vaccine seem to come down to the same thing: mistrust of science and grasping on out of the ordinary studies that are subsequently recanted or heavily criticized.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23160 Posts
February 05 2015 18:06 GMT
#32477
On February 06 2015 03:02 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
In the first Affordable Care Act case three years ago, the Supreme Court had to decide whether Congress had the power, under the Commerce Clause or some other source of authority, to require individuals to buy health insurance. It was a question that went directly to the structure of American government and the allocation of power within the federal system.

The court very nearly got the answer wrong with an exceedingly narrow reading of Congress’s commerce power. As everyone remembers, Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr., himself a member of the anti-Commerce Clause five, saved the day by declaring that the penalty for not complying with the individual mandate was actually a tax, properly imposed under Congress’s tax power.

I thought the court was seriously misguided in denying Congress the power under the Commerce Clause to intervene in a sector of the economy that accounts for more than 17 percent of the gross national product. But even I have to concede that the debate over structure has deep roots in the country’s history and a legitimate claim on the Supreme Court’s attention. People will be debating it as long as the flag waves.

But the new Affordable Care Act case, King v. Burwell, to be argued four weeks from now, is different, a case of statutory, not constitutional, interpretation. The court has permitted itself to be recruited into the front lines of a partisan war. Not only the Affordable Care Act but the court itself is in peril as a result.

At the invitation of a group of people determined to render the Affordable Care Act unworkable (the nominal plaintiffs are four Virginia residents who can’t afford health insurance but who want to be declared ineligible for the federal tax subsidies that would make insurance affordable for them), the justices have agreed to decide whether the statute as written in fact refutes one of the several titles that Congress gave it: “Quality, Affordable Health Care for All Americans.”

If the Supreme Court agrees with the challengers, more than seven million people who bought their insurance in the 34 states where the federal government set up the marketplaces, known as exchanges, will lose their tax subsidies. The market for affordable individual health insurance will collapse in the face of shrinking numbers of insured people and skyrocketing premiums, the very “death spiral” that the Affordable Care Act was designed to prevent.


Source



It's just astounding to me that for years Republicans have been trying to scrap the ACA but they still don't have a plan for all the people they would be screwing out of coverage, capless plans, pre-exsisting conditions, etc...
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
February 05 2015 18:24 GMT
#32478
California lawmakers have put forward legislation requiring parents to vaccinate all school children unless a child is deemed to be in danger due to a pre-existing medical condition. If passed, California would join only two other states with such stringent restrictions.

Parents could no longer cite personal beliefs or religious reasons to send unvaccinated children to private and public schools under the proposal introduced Wednesday after dozens of people fell ill from a measles outbreak that started in the state’s Disneyland resort. Indeed the only exemptions would be for children who could be at risk due to allergic responses or a weakened immune system caused by serious illness.

Mississippi and West Virginia are the only other states with such strict vaccine rules, though the California bill's chief author said he would consider including a religious exemption — a move likely to undermine efforts to protect children in the states from preventable diseases.

"People are starting to realize, ‘I'm vulnerable, my children are vulnerable,'" said Sen. Richard Pan, a Democratic pediatrician from Sacramento. "We should not wait for more children to sicken or die before we act."

Childhood vaccine has become an emotionally charged topic amid a measles outbreak that has sickened more than 100 people across the U.S. and in Mexico. No deaths have been reported.

According to the National Conference of State Legislatures, California is among 20 states that allow for personal belief exemptions and 48 that allow for religious exemptions.

A Washington state lawmaker introduced a bill Wednesday that would remove the personal belief allowance for an exemption in that state.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Millitron
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2611 Posts
February 05 2015 18:25 GMT
#32479
On February 06 2015 03:06 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 06 2015 03:02 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
In the first Affordable Care Act case three years ago, the Supreme Court had to decide whether Congress had the power, under the Commerce Clause or some other source of authority, to require individuals to buy health insurance. It was a question that went directly to the structure of American government and the allocation of power within the federal system.

The court very nearly got the answer wrong with an exceedingly narrow reading of Congress’s commerce power. As everyone remembers, Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr., himself a member of the anti-Commerce Clause five, saved the day by declaring that the penalty for not complying with the individual mandate was actually a tax, properly imposed under Congress’s tax power.

I thought the court was seriously misguided in denying Congress the power under the Commerce Clause to intervene in a sector of the economy that accounts for more than 17 percent of the gross national product. But even I have to concede that the debate over structure has deep roots in the country’s history and a legitimate claim on the Supreme Court’s attention. People will be debating it as long as the flag waves.

But the new Affordable Care Act case, King v. Burwell, to be argued four weeks from now, is different, a case of statutory, not constitutional, interpretation. The court has permitted itself to be recruited into the front lines of a partisan war. Not only the Affordable Care Act but the court itself is in peril as a result.

At the invitation of a group of people determined to render the Affordable Care Act unworkable (the nominal plaintiffs are four Virginia residents who can’t afford health insurance but who want to be declared ineligible for the federal tax subsidies that would make insurance affordable for them), the justices have agreed to decide whether the statute as written in fact refutes one of the several titles that Congress gave it: “Quality, Affordable Health Care for All Americans.”

If the Supreme Court agrees with the challengers, more than seven million people who bought their insurance in the 34 states where the federal government set up the marketplaces, known as exchanges, will lose their tax subsidies. The market for affordable individual health insurance will collapse in the face of shrinking numbers of insured people and skyrocketing premiums, the very “death spiral” that the Affordable Care Act was designed to prevent.


Source



It's just astounding to me that for years Republicans have been trying to scrap the ACA but they still don't have a plan for all the people they would be screwing out of coverage, capless plans, pre-exsisting conditions, etc...

Maybe they shouldn't have been given coverage in the first place though. Consider social security for a moment. Because so many people are now dependent on it, its practically political suicide to consider altering it in any meaningful way. It's conceivable that there could be serious problems with the institution that are now unfixable, because any politician who tried would be voted out immediately. This is the danger with entitlements.
Who called in the fleet?
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23160 Posts
February 05 2015 18:30 GMT
#32480
On February 06 2015 03:25 Millitron wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 06 2015 03:06 GreenHorizons wrote:
On February 06 2015 03:02 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
In the first Affordable Care Act case three years ago, the Supreme Court had to decide whether Congress had the power, under the Commerce Clause or some other source of authority, to require individuals to buy health insurance. It was a question that went directly to the structure of American government and the allocation of power within the federal system.

The court very nearly got the answer wrong with an exceedingly narrow reading of Congress’s commerce power. As everyone remembers, Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr., himself a member of the anti-Commerce Clause five, saved the day by declaring that the penalty for not complying with the individual mandate was actually a tax, properly imposed under Congress’s tax power.

I thought the court was seriously misguided in denying Congress the power under the Commerce Clause to intervene in a sector of the economy that accounts for more than 17 percent of the gross national product. But even I have to concede that the debate over structure has deep roots in the country’s history and a legitimate claim on the Supreme Court’s attention. People will be debating it as long as the flag waves.

But the new Affordable Care Act case, King v. Burwell, to be argued four weeks from now, is different, a case of statutory, not constitutional, interpretation. The court has permitted itself to be recruited into the front lines of a partisan war. Not only the Affordable Care Act but the court itself is in peril as a result.

At the invitation of a group of people determined to render the Affordable Care Act unworkable (the nominal plaintiffs are four Virginia residents who can’t afford health insurance but who want to be declared ineligible for the federal tax subsidies that would make insurance affordable for them), the justices have agreed to decide whether the statute as written in fact refutes one of the several titles that Congress gave it: “Quality, Affordable Health Care for All Americans.”

If the Supreme Court agrees with the challengers, more than seven million people who bought their insurance in the 34 states where the federal government set up the marketplaces, known as exchanges, will lose their tax subsidies. The market for affordable individual health insurance will collapse in the face of shrinking numbers of insured people and skyrocketing premiums, the very “death spiral” that the Affordable Care Act was designed to prevent.


Source



It's just astounding to me that for years Republicans have been trying to scrap the ACA but they still don't have a plan for all the people they would be screwing out of coverage, capless plans, pre-exsisting conditions, etc...

Maybe they shouldn't have been given coverage in the first place though. Consider social security for a moment. Because so many people are now dependent on it, its practically political suicide to consider altering it in any meaningful way. It's conceivable that there could be serious problems with the institution that are now unfixable, because any politician who tried would be voted out immediately. This is the danger with entitlements.


Damn... Ok maybe some shouldn't have, but are you really telling me kids with cancer or other conditions should of just been left to bankrupt their parents before dying?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
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