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On November 11 2014 19:47 Simberto wrote:
Yeah, it's like some of the conservative americans don't even realize how shitty their internet situation is due to the monopoly they have going on, and think that giving those monopoly companies more power to fuck even more people over is a good idea. I can not even wrap my head around this. How can you be both for a free market and against net neutrality? Is regulation only bad if it comes from a government, and not bad if it comes from a monopoly company?
Also, google does not "hog the tubes and should pay more for that". The internet connections to them are already paid for. By the customers. And those customers then decide what they want to look at on the internet.
That's the core of conservative belief in this country. It's a hypocritical idea that "government is inherently bad" or, more precisely, "the federal government is inherently bad", so when the state government or the private market does bad things it's completely fine and will "fix itself", but when the federal government does the same thing (or does something to try to fix that problem), it's inherently bad.
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Yes, government action is inherently bad. It's bad just because it is! It's morally wrong!
Don't be silly. Government should stay out of the way because of what we, the people, get as the fruits of its labor (or what fruits it takes/prevents us from earning). Not because OMG GOVERNMENT=BAD. Every time someone sums up conservative thought this way they only display their own ignorance. Knowing it better would clear up a few of those conservative "inconsistencies" liberals whine about, too. Not all government action is evil.
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And guaranteeing everybody cheap, free and unrestricted internet is somehow taking away the fruits of their labour? The Netherlands have net neutrality written into law, last time I've checked they've got pretty fast and cheap internet connections over there.
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United States23274 Posts
On November 12 2014 06:57 Introvert wrote:
Yes, government action is inherently bad. It's bad just because it is! It's morally wrong!
Don't be silly. Government should stay out of the way because of what we, the people, get as the fruits of its labor (or what fruits it takes/prevents us from earning). Not because OMG GOVERNMENT=BAD. Every time someone sums up conservative thought this way they only display their own ignorance. Knowing it better would clear up a few of those conservative "inconsistencies" liberals whine about, too. Not all government action is evil.
You have to admit it's a pretty short list of approved federal government action for conservatives. Mostly around war and border security and a marriage amendment (so dumb).
Not a whole lot outside of that, that conservatives would like to see the federal government do off the top of my head?
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But why is it bad if the federal government does that, but not if the telecom company with a monopoly does it? And why would it be bad if the federal government tried to stop the telecom monopoly company from preventing you getting "the fruits of your labor"
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Because "the people" are not paying off conservative talking heads.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
western governments are basically for sale to some degree. there's a lot of lobbying going on
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My comment wasn't related to net neutrality specifically, I was responding to the often repeated, but very wrong, assertion that conservatives think government action is bad by default.
Conservatives have their own differing opinions, but it is true that the list of supported government interventions is smaller than the liberal list.
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Well, yeah, but what i don't understand why there are so many people in favor of policies that are obviously bad for them, and only good for a very small group of very wealthy corporation that are thus capable of using the legal bribery system of the US to their advantage. I can understand all of the parties involved in that, except for the voters who then actually vote for that guy and really believe in the corporate bullshit they are paid by corrupt politicians and media people (Who don't even TRY to hide the fact that they are being paid off)
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On November 12 2014 07:22 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2014 06:57 Introvert wrote:
Yes, government action is inherently bad. It's bad just because it is! It's morally wrong!
Don't be silly. Government should stay out of the way because of what we, the people, get as the fruits of its labor (or what fruits it takes/prevents us from earning). Not because OMG GOVERNMENT=BAD. Every time someone sums up conservative thought this way they only display their own ignorance. Knowing it better would clear up a few of those conservative "inconsistencies" liberals whine about, too. Not all government action is evil. You have to admit it's a pretty short list of approved federal government action for conservatives. Mostly around war and border security and a marriage amendment (so dumb). Not a whole lot outside of that, that conservatives would like to see the federal government do off the top of my head?
EITC, Social Secuity, Medicare, Medicaid, the VA, federal courts...
Conservatives are not anarchists any more than liberals are communists.
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On November 12 2014 07:34 Simberto wrote:
Well, yeah, but what i don't understand why there are so many people in favor of policies that are obviously bad for them, and only good for a very small group of very wealthy corporation that are thus capable of using the legal bribery system of the US to their advantage. I can understand all of the parties involved in that, except for the voters who then actually vote for that guy and really believe in the corporate bullshit they are paid by corrupt politicians and media people (Who don't even TRY to hide the fact that they are being paid off)
Me neither. Why do Europeans do that?
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United States23274 Posts
On November 12 2014 07:36 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2014 07:22 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 12 2014 06:57 Introvert wrote:
Yes, government action is inherently bad. It's bad just because it is! It's morally wrong!
Don't be silly. Government should stay out of the way because of what we, the people, get as the fruits of its labor (or what fruits it takes/prevents us from earning). Not because OMG GOVERNMENT=BAD. Every time someone sums up conservative thought this way they only display their own ignorance. Knowing it better would clear up a few of those conservative "inconsistencies" liberals whine about, too. Not all government action is evil. You have to admit it's a pretty short list of approved federal government action for conservatives. Mostly around war and border security and a marriage amendment (so dumb). Not a whole lot outside of that, that conservatives would like to see the federal government do off the top of my head? EITC, Social Secuity, Medicare, Medicaid, the VA, federal courts... Conservatives are not anarchists any more than liberals are communists.
I forgot how hard conservatives fought to make Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid a reality... Just wow.
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Austria8554 Posts
On November 12 2014 07:37 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2014 07:34 Simberto wrote:
Well, yeah, but what i don't understand why there are so many people in favor of policies that are obviously bad for them, and only good for a very small group of very wealthy corporation that are thus capable of using the legal bribery system of the US to their advantage. I can understand all of the parties involved in that, except for the voters who then actually vote for that guy and really believe in the corporate bullshit they are paid by corrupt politicians and media people (Who don't even TRY to hide the fact that they are being paid off) Me neither. Why do Europeans do that?
We learned from the best.
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On November 12 2014 07:50 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2014 07:36 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On November 12 2014 07:22 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 12 2014 06:57 Introvert wrote:
Yes, government action is inherently bad. It's bad just because it is! It's morally wrong!
Don't be silly. Government should stay out of the way because of what we, the people, get as the fruits of its labor (or what fruits it takes/prevents us from earning). Not because OMG GOVERNMENT=BAD. Every time someone sums up conservative thought this way they only display their own ignorance. Knowing it better would clear up a few of those conservative "inconsistencies" liberals whine about, too. Not all government action is evil. You have to admit it's a pretty short list of approved federal government action for conservatives. Mostly around war and border security and a marriage amendment (so dumb). Not a whole lot outside of that, that conservatives would like to see the federal government do off the top of my head? EITC, Social Secuity, Medicare, Medicaid, the VA, federal courts... Conservatives are not anarchists any more than liberals are communists. I forgot how hard conservatives fought to make Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid a reality... Just wow.
I wasn't around in the 1930's, so I don't really remember what they did. Relevance to 2014?
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Austria8554 Posts
On November 12 2014 08:01 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2014 07:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 12 2014 07:36 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On November 12 2014 07:22 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 12 2014 06:57 Introvert wrote:
Yes, government action is inherently bad. It's bad just because it is! It's morally wrong!
Don't be silly. Government should stay out of the way because of what we, the people, get as the fruits of its labor (or what fruits it takes/prevents us from earning). Not because OMG GOVERNMENT=BAD. Every time someone sums up conservative thought this way they only display their own ignorance. Knowing it better would clear up a few of those conservative "inconsistencies" liberals whine about, too. Not all government action is evil. You have to admit it's a pretty short list of approved federal government action for conservatives. Mostly around war and border security and a marriage amendment (so dumb). Not a whole lot outside of that, that conservatives would like to see the federal government do off the top of my head? EITC, Social Secuity, Medicare, Medicaid, the VA, federal courts... Conservatives are not anarchists any more than liberals are communists. I forgot how hard conservatives fought to make Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid a reality... Just wow. I wasn't around in the 1930's, so I don't really remember what they did. Relevance to 2014?
In the United States, Medicare is a federal social insurance program, administered by the U.S. federal government since 1966..."
The Social Security Amendments of 1965 created Medicaid
source
more relevant now?
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On November 12 2014 08:01 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2014 07:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 12 2014 07:36 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On November 12 2014 07:22 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 12 2014 06:57 Introvert wrote:
Yes, government action is inherently bad. It's bad just because it is! It's morally wrong!
Don't be silly. Government should stay out of the way because of what we, the people, get as the fruits of its labor (or what fruits it takes/prevents us from earning). Not because OMG GOVERNMENT=BAD. Every time someone sums up conservative thought this way they only display their own ignorance. Knowing it better would clear up a few of those conservative "inconsistencies" liberals whine about, too. Not all government action is evil. You have to admit it's a pretty short list of approved federal government action for conservatives. Mostly around war and border security and a marriage amendment (so dumb). Not a whole lot outside of that, that conservatives would like to see the federal government do off the top of my head? EITC, Social Secuity, Medicare, Medicaid, the VA, federal courts... Conservatives are not anarchists any more than liberals are communists. I forgot how hard conservatives fought to make Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid a reality... Just wow. I wasn't around in the 1930's, so I don't really remember what they did. Relevance to 2014?
It's funny, maybe you shouldn't flaunt your FREEDOM-wang about when you just admitted yourself that you have no idea what you're talking about. ^_^
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I mean the people saying we need to deregulate the cable industry and open it up to more providers who can charge more depending on how the network is used.
No we don't have multiple parallel networks owned by different people. Next thing I know you will be telling me that water and energy aren't natural monopolies either. If you have a point make it.
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United States23274 Posts
On November 12 2014 08:01 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2014 07:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 12 2014 07:36 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On November 12 2014 07:22 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 12 2014 06:57 Introvert wrote:
Yes, government action is inherently bad. It's bad just because it is! It's morally wrong!
Don't be silly. Government should stay out of the way because of what we, the people, get as the fruits of its labor (or what fruits it takes/prevents us from earning). Not because OMG GOVERNMENT=BAD. Every time someone sums up conservative thought this way they only display their own ignorance. Knowing it better would clear up a few of those conservative "inconsistencies" liberals whine about, too. Not all government action is evil. You have to admit it's a pretty short list of approved federal government action for conservatives. Mostly around war and border security and a marriage amendment (so dumb). Not a whole lot outside of that, that conservatives would like to see the federal government do off the top of my head? EITC, Social Secuity, Medicare, Medicaid, the VA, federal courts... Conservatives are not anarchists any more than liberals are communists. I forgot how hard conservatives fought to make Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid a reality... Just wow. I wasn't around in the 1930's, so I don't really remember what they did. Relevance to 2014?
The thirties were where when conservatives were still arguing minimum wages were unconstitutional. But you probably don't remember that either or understand why that would matter today?
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On November 12 2014 07:37 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2014 07:34 Simberto wrote:
Well, yeah, but what i don't understand why there are so many people in favor of policies that are obviously bad for them, and only good for a very small group of very wealthy corporation that are thus capable of using the legal bribery system of the US to their advantage. I can understand all of the parties involved in that, except for the voters who then actually vote for that guy and really believe in the corporate bullshit they are paid by corrupt politicians and media people (Who don't even TRY to hide the fact that they are being paid off) Me neither. Why do Europeans do that?
Ok, then lets talk on a specific example here. Universal healthcare is obviously very good for the majority of the population. It is on average a lot cheaper then the ridiculous excuse of a system the US has, AND it provides better healthcare. The only people who are worse of with universal healthcare are very rich people, and some rent-seeking corporations that work in your current system. Yet for some inexplicable reason that isn't even something you can talk about in the US unless you want to commit political suicide and never get elected to anything. Why is there no majority for something that is obviously better for the majority of people?
Or this internet debate. Monopoly companies are bad for everyone who is not that monopoly company or a politician getting bribed by them (Oh sorry is the correct term currently lobbied upon? Campaign donated?). Yet you still have a de facto monopoly there. And even the idea of keeping up regulations that keeps that monopoly from being even more ridiculously exploitative and corrupt still gets flak from US conservatives
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On November 12 2014 08:10 dismiss wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2014 08:01 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On November 12 2014 07:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 12 2014 07:36 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On November 12 2014 07:22 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 12 2014 06:57 Introvert wrote:
Yes, government action is inherently bad. It's bad just because it is! It's morally wrong!
Don't be silly. Government should stay out of the way because of what we, the people, get as the fruits of its labor (or what fruits it takes/prevents us from earning). Not because OMG GOVERNMENT=BAD. Every time someone sums up conservative thought this way they only display their own ignorance. Knowing it better would clear up a few of those conservative "inconsistencies" liberals whine about, too. Not all government action is evil. You have to admit it's a pretty short list of approved federal government action for conservatives. Mostly around war and border security and a marriage amendment (so dumb). Not a whole lot outside of that, that conservatives would like to see the federal government do off the top of my head? EITC, Social Secuity, Medicare, Medicaid, the VA, federal courts... Conservatives are not anarchists any more than liberals are communists. I forgot how hard conservatives fought to make Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid a reality... Just wow. I wasn't around in the 1930's, so I don't really remember what they did. Relevance to 2014? It's funny, maybe you shouldn't flaunt your FREEDOM-wang about when you just admitted yourself that you have no idea what you're talking about. ^_^
My FREEDOM-wang? Because that's what I do here, right? Rant about FREEDOM all day?
Social Security started as part of the New Deal in the 1930's, with very little opposition in Congress. About half of Republicans voted Medicare into law and today the vast majority of Republicans support Social Security even if it means raising taxes. These entitlement programs are often called the 'third rail' of US politics because their widespread support makes them incredibly hard to change.
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