EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 1321
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
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bookwyrm
United States722 Posts
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kwizach
3658 Posts
On September 28 2014 09:08 bookwyrm wrote: Youd be more convincing if you could make a point other than 'nyah nyah' jonny, the answer is local economies and local ownership of land and the means of production Make a point? I presented you with the cold facts which utterly disprove your - still unexplained - argument that QE was "debasing the currency", namely that there have been low levels of inflation for the last few years. You've got nothing. You can't even describe what QE is without making mistakes... | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
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JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On September 28 2014 09:08 bookwyrm wrote: Youd be more convincing if you could make a point other than 'nyah nyah' jonny, the answer is local economies and local ownership of land and the means of production And that will do what, exactly? To start with you're talking about less specialization and smaller scale economies, so everyone takes a big hit to income. On top of that, you're aggregating risk to a smaller degree, so I would think that you'd have more volatility as well. So less income, and more income volatility... hrmm, I think I'll pass. | ||
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Simberto
Germany12010 Posts
It is really hard to produce anything complex on a small scale, even if you live in the perfect place that has all of the necessary ressources at hand. So basically, if you want localized economies, that means you mostly produce food and houses. If that is all you need, noone is stopping you from living like that, right now. Most people don't want that, though. | ||
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bookwyrm
United States722 Posts
Kwizach go read a couple pages ago when I pointed out that the lack of inflation is a sign that qe is not having its intended effect. Its either inflationary or its not working pick one. Yoy never responded to that point which is fatal to you and yes I realize that you giys have had lots of promises made to you about how life is going to be and you refuse to accept that those promises will not be kept. Its hard I know. Welcome to disillusion. But the promises that have been made are imposaible. Sorry. Its just being realistic. Get used to it | ||
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Simberto
Germany12010 Posts
If you want anything more complex than a pot or a few bricks, you can't produce all of it locally. If you are fine with just a pot, a simple house, and food, then you are at a medieval level, and you could do that right now. The fact that you are using a computer right now makes me think that you probably like some of the modern comforts. Of course, progress would also be preferable to just keeping the status quo. And even that is impossible if you want to highly localize economies, because of what i described above. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On September 28 2014 09:45 bookwyrm wrote: and yes I realize that you giys have had lots of promises made to you about how life is going to be and you refuse to accept that those promises will not be kept. Its hard I know. Welcome to disillusion. But the promises that have been made are imposaible. Sorry. Its just being realistic. Get used to it People have been repeating that doomsday speech for a few hundred years now but somehow our allegedly doomed system just keeps going on. Every time someone makes a concrete point like "how are people actually inventing medicine and technology that costs billions of dollars in your anarcho hipster scenario" You just start preaching how we're all going to die. It's really annoying to respond to this. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) won the 2014 Values Voter Summit presidential straw poll. The results were announced on Saturday. Cruz came in first with 25 percent of the vote followed by Dr. Ben Carson with 20 percent of the vote and former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee (R) in third with 12 percent of the vote. Carson actually won the straw poll for the vice presidential spot with 22 percent of the vote. Cruz actually won the straw poll in 2013, during the government shutdown, with 42 percent of the vote. Source | ||
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bookwyrm
United States722 Posts
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JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On September 28 2014 09:52 Simberto wrote: It's not about invention, it's about production. A localized economy simply can not produce complex products like a PC, a car, a washing machine or whatever. It could maybe produce one specific type of complex product, but a village needs only a limited amount of dishwashers, and it is very inefficientor even impossible to produce small quantities of things. So you need cross-region trade to make it viable for one village to produce only dishwashers, one village to produce electricity, another to produce cars etc... And that is a lot easier and more efficient if you have some sort of currency instead of bartering. And even that is simplified, as you will rarely find all the ressources needed to produce something complex lying about at the same spot. If you want anything more complex than a pot or a few bricks, you can't produce all of it locally. If you are fine with just a pot, a simple house, and food, then you are at a medieval level, and you could do that right now. The fact that you are using a computer right now makes me think that you probably like some of the modern comforts. Of course, progress would also be preferable to just keeping the status quo. And even that is impossible if you want to highly localize economies, because of what i described above. Yes exactly. bookwyrm, you may find some new insights if you look at how the economy functions at a micro level, instead of just focusing on the macro. | ||
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coverpunch
United States2093 Posts
On September 28 2014 09:54 bookwyrm wrote: Okay you guys win I believe in keynesianism now I know everyone's piling on, but didn't you get the memo about the TPS reports? | ||
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On September 28 2014 04:16 bookwyrm wrote: Dedollarization is underway. and yet you wont send me your worthless dollars. They are just pieces of fiat debt paper bro. Come on, you and David Graeber should send it all to me, ill make sure its recycled environmentally. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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ey215
United States546 Posts
On September 28 2014 12:22 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: \Oh shit. Reports coming out of Ferguson that a cop has been shot amid protests. From the reports I've seen it's not really "amid protests". That sounds like it was a cop watching protesters that got shot. It sure as hell isn't going to make anything any better there though. Updated at 11:30 p.m. Saturday with details from Ferguson police chief. A Ferguson police officer was shot Saturday night. The officer, a woman, is still alive, authorities say. The shooting occurred in the 1000 block of Smith Avenue in Ferguson, near the new Ferguson Community Center. Ferguson Police Chief Thomas Jackson said Saturday night that the officer was on routine patrol and spotted two suspects trying to break into a business. He would not disclose the name of the business but said it was in Ferguson. When the officer confronted the suspects, Jackson said, one of them pulled a gun and fired at the officer. The officer was struck once in the arm, and is expected to be okay. Dozens of police cars from numerous jurisdictions converged on the area after the shooting. The shooter is reported to have fled into nearby woods. Police have established a staging area near the St. Peters Evangelical Church of Christ on West Florissant Avenue. Officers are still searching for the shooter, according to St. Louis County Police. Come back to our website for further updates as they become available. Source | ||
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Aveng3r
United States2411 Posts
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kwizach
3658 Posts
On September 28 2014 09:45 bookwyrm wrote: Kwizach go read a couple pages ago when I pointed out that the lack of inflation is a sign that qe is not having its intended effect. Its either inflationary or its not working pick one. Yoy never responded to that point which is fatal to you You're the one trying to have it both ways. If there are low levels of inflation, then that means QE is not "debasing the currency", so your claim was wrong. The fact that monetary policy is not enough in itself to push the US back to high levels of growth certainly does not mean that the situation wouldn't be worse without QE/if interests rates had not been lowered as much as they have (as you can see to some extent from looking at Europe - see, for example, this recent Economist article). At the height of the financial crisis, in particular, the Fed's loans prevented a much bleaker crisis, including by intervening on the commercial paper market which enterprises use for their short-term funding. | ||
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Paljas
Germany6926 Posts
On September 28 2014 09:52 Nyxisto wrote: People have been repeating that doomsday speech for a few hundred years now but somehow our allegedly doomed system just keeps going on. Every time someone makes a concrete point like "how are people actually inventing medicine and technology that costs billions of dollars in your anarcho hipster scenario" You just start preaching how we're all going to die. It's really annoying to respond to this. the real reason why our system should change is not because it wont work in the future anymore, but because it has terrible consequences and is immoral. you might think that a system of a total localized economy is just a anarcho hippie dream, but it should be obvious that localizing some of our production is a good thing. this wouldnt include things like medicine of course, but certain other areas of our production. but it also would require our society to abstain from its current wastefull livestyle. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24367 Posts
That aside, the Ferguson story needs some clearing up. Chief Jackson said he did not think the shooting was related to protests over Mr. Brown’s death. “I don’t think it is,” he said. “It didn’t happen within the proximity of the protest area. This is a fairly secluded area. I wouldn’t have any reason to think that it was linked in any way, shape or form.” and Because of incorrect information from county police, an earlier version of this article incorrectly stated the sex of the officer who was shot. The officer is a man, not a woman. Source So instead of a female officer being shot 'amid' protests, you have a male officer being shot in something roundly considered to be unrelated to Brown or the protests in any way (as of now). To bad there are already going to be countless people totally sure some female officer was shot responding to the protest only to be reinforced by crazy conservative echo chambers with 'stories' like this ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/hiEDhry.png) Source Plenty of the people who read stuff like this will never get/accept being corrected (Keep in mind over a third of conservatives have been confident Obama is actually Muslim) So you can count on a month or 12 from now when we finally get any story (from the police) of what happened after Michael Brown ran away from the officer, that people will still be talking about how those **** in Ferguson are just savages who shot a innocent female cop while she was observing protesters (reality be damned). | ||
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