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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On September 28 2014 01:34 nunez wrote:
trash post, nyxisto.
the podcast (an excellent one) reports on a cultural problem within the fed (regulators acting like sycophants). a problem they are well aware of (as per their own secret, but released, report), and an employee who was fired for standing up to it / doing her job.
Yes, but that is the case in a lot of big organisations. I don't understand how this is mind boggling evidence that Paul Krugman is a corrupt idiot.
And Krugman also writes editorials about how anyone who thinks that "economic growth" (another incoherent non-concept) has NO CONFLICT with environmental protection, which is just a stupid thing to say. OF COURSE there is a conflict between "economic growth" and the environment because in the metrics we use for "growth" blowing stuff up uselessly counts as GDP.
Well growth isn't exactly linked to resources any more. A software engineer can produce a lot of value in terms of economic output without polluting the earth or using a lot of resources. It's not like every country is Saudi-Arabia that only generates wealth by selling oil.
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On September 28 2014 01:36 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2014 01:34 nunez wrote:
trash post, nyxisto.
the podcast (an excellent one) reports on a cultural problem within the fed (regulators acting like sycophants). a problem they are well aware of (as per their own secret, but released, report), and an employee who was fired for standing up to it / doing her job. Yes, but that is the case in a lot of big organisations. I don't understand how this is mind boggling evidence that Paul Krugman is a corrupt idiot.
It's not directly related to Paul Krugman. Paul Krugman being an idiot is a somewhat separate thing. but not that separate
edit: http://www.postcarbon.org/article/2362632-paul-krugman-s-errors-and-omissions
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On September 28 2014 01:19 bookwyrm wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2014 18:43 kwizach wrote:On September 27 2014 13:23 bookwyrm wrote:On September 27 2014 11:12 kwizach wrote:On September 27 2014 03:17 bookwyrm wrote:
This paragraph, for instance, is one of the most terrifying things I have ever read:
"Why does all of this matter? One answer is that central bankers need to stop talking about “exit strategies.” Easy money should, and probably will, be with us for a very long time. This, in turn, means we can forget all those scare stories about government debt, which run along the lines of “It may not be a problem now, but just wait until interest rates rise.”
don't worry guys, we can just solve all our problems by debasing the currency. Yeah ok keep telling yourself that, Caesar You clearly do not understand his point, and, from what it looks like, monetary policy. Don't call Krugman stupid when you don't understand what he's talking about. "we are the high priests, unless you are indoctrinated into our mysteries you are not qualified to have an opinion about things that have a very direct impact on your life. repent mortal!" in other words: On September 27 2014 10:16 Jerubaal wrote:
I can see from the last page, though, that there is quite an audience for people who think that they don't have to worry about engaging in a fair debate and marginalization of their ideological enemies is a just practice. . I know enough about monetary policy to know that nobody in the entire fucking world really understands monetary policy. Death to technocrats. Deleverage everything now So you confirm you don't know what you're talking about, got it. i wonder if you have anything of substance to say, other than that I must be wrong a priori because I disagree with you. the smugness! It's really embarrassing, especially because you probably feel all high and mighty about what a "reasonable" person you are since you are a Democrat and not a Republican. Actually you are just locked in the echo chamber like everyone else Show nested quote +On September 27 2014 21:57 coverpunch wrote:On September 27 2014 18:43 kwizach wrote:On September 27 2014 13:23 bookwyrm wrote:On September 27 2014 11:12 kwizach wrote:On September 27 2014 03:17 bookwyrm wrote:
This paragraph, for instance, is one of the most terrifying things I have ever read:
"Why does all of this matter? One answer is that central bankers need to stop talking about “exit strategies.” Easy money should, and probably will, be with us for a very long time. This, in turn, means we can forget all those scare stories about government debt, which run along the lines of “It may not be a problem now, but just wait until interest rates rise.”
don't worry guys, we can just solve all our problems by debasing the currency. Yeah ok keep telling yourself that, Caesar You clearly do not understand his point, and, from what it looks like, monetary policy. Don't call Krugman stupid when you don't understand what he's talking about. "we are the high priests, unless you are indoctrinated into our mysteries you are not qualified to have an opinion about things that have a very direct impact on your life. repent mortal!" in other words: On September 27 2014 10:16 Jerubaal wrote:
I can see from the last page, though, that there is quite an audience for people who think that they don't have to worry about engaging in a fair debate and marginalization of their ideological enemies is a just practice. . I know enough about monetary policy to know that nobody in the entire fucking world really understands monetary policy. Death to technocrats. Deleverage everything now So you confirm you don't know what you're talking about, got it. To be fair, Krugman doesn't do a good job of explaining his positions and his blog is blindingly opinionated. His justifications generally amount to little more than "I'm right and conservatives are always wrong". where do you think kwizach learned it? He believes that's an acceptable way to behave. Because it's just SO OBVIOUS that he's right. paul krugman is such a smug little shit if you wanted to demonstrate that I don't know what I'm talking about, maybe you could explain it. But I know you can't because you're incapable of having an economic thought other than "must... obey... paul... krugman... must... not... take... chance... of... free... thought...."
Krugman is very political in his NYT pieces. You're completely right about that. I'd put him in the same space as Warren - both are really smart but they're also biased. They're like really smart advocates for certain positions.
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@nyx
you said quote - "the fed is run by lizard people" and supported that by some radio podcast, which isn't the greatest line of argument either. - end quote.
the insight into the culture within the fed that the (excellent) podcast gives is very disconcerting, and well documented.
in usual shill style you attempt to conflate the critiscism directed at authority with a conspiracy theory.
trash.
a software engineer can produce value without polluting as long as he's writing his code in the sand and compiling it by hand with loose sticks and stones, before deploying the finished program back into the wild.
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On September 28 2014 01:45 nunez wrote:
and a software engineer can produce value without polluting the earth as long as he's writing his code in the sand and compiling it by hand with sticks and stones.
Obviously he needs some resources to do his job, but there is no inherent connection between resources and growth. A highly productive service sector may not need a lot of natural resources ( the needed resources may even decline with technology becoming more energy efficient) while the economic output stays stable or becomes bigger.
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Olebar, 31, was released from prison after serving ten years for a burglary and robbery he didn't commit. On Friday, he became the first person to claim a financial award from the state legislature under a new law passed to compensate innocent people sent to prison.
Creation, 30 days old, was born almost exactly nine months after the University of Washington Innocence Project helped set her dad free.
Olebar will be paid $496,712.33, according to documents signed by King County Superior Court Judge Laura Middaugh. That's a payment for 3,626 days in prison.
According to his lawyer Todd Maybrown, Olebar is the first person to receive money from the state under the new law, which pays $50,000 a year for wrongful conviction.
Maybe with a few more of these, prosecutors will start caring if they are trying to convict the person who actually committed the crime...
Source
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On September 28 2014 01:35 bookwyrm wrote:
And our monetary policy is a disastrous death trap that can only end in meltdown. .
you are totally right, go ahead and send me your worthless dollars, they are just debased pieces of paper, you wont miss them.
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@nyx
this sector of yours might use finite resources
more efficiently with time, hence it does not
inherently need finite resources?
this sector of yours uses "little" finite resources,
hence it does not inherently need finite resources?
there's a disconnect somewhere.
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I don't know if you're trying to write a haiku for me, but the idea is very simple: Resources are only the dominant factor in very industrial or agricultural societies. You can write a very bad program that is not even worth a penny or you can write a great program that is very valuable with the same amount of resources. The value is purely intellectual. You may be able to reduce the energy cost of a machine by 50%, and build more machines that use the same amount of energy.
So the argument. "Growth comes from resources, we only have limited resources so growth will stop at some point" is wrong, because growth is possible without increasing resource consumption.
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don't have to increase
finite resource consumption
for its depletion.
consumption itself
lest it converges to nil
timely enough
will deplete the finite resource.
your simple idea is simply absurd.
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Canada11439 Posts
I see that you have,
Taken lessons from the Trozz,
Posting in Haikus.
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trozz found a new fan today.
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On September 28 2014 01:34 nunez wrote:
trash post, nyxisto.
the podcast (an excellent one) reports on a cultural problem within the fed (regulators acting like sycophants). a problem they are well aware of (as per their own secret, but released, report), and an employee who was fired for standing up to it / doing her job.
I skimmed through the transcript. It doesn't seem unreasonable or surprising that the lady was fired. She seemed to have an attitude that her opinion was right, and to hell with anyone who disagreed. Since the Fed doesn't act that way she, got the boot.
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On September 28 2014 01:19 bookwyrm wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2014 18:43 kwizach wrote:On September 27 2014 13:23 bookwyrm wrote:On September 27 2014 11:12 kwizach wrote:On September 27 2014 03:17 bookwyrm wrote:
This paragraph, for instance, is one of the most terrifying things I have ever read:
"Why does all of this matter? One answer is that central bankers need to stop talking about “exit strategies.” Easy money should, and probably will, be with us for a very long time. This, in turn, means we can forget all those scare stories about government debt, which run along the lines of “It may not be a problem now, but just wait until interest rates rise.”
don't worry guys, we can just solve all our problems by debasing the currency. Yeah ok keep telling yourself that, Caesar You clearly do not understand his point, and, from what it looks like, monetary policy. Don't call Krugman stupid when you don't understand what he's talking about. "we are the high priests, unless you are indoctrinated into our mysteries you are not qualified to have an opinion about things that have a very direct impact on your life. repent mortal!" in other words: On September 27 2014 10:16 Jerubaal wrote:
I can see from the last page, though, that there is quite an audience for people who think that they don't have to worry about engaging in a fair debate and marginalization of their ideological enemies is a just practice. . I know enough about monetary policy to know that nobody in the entire fucking world really understands monetary policy. Death to technocrats. Deleverage everything now So you confirm you don't know what you're talking about, got it. i wonder if you have anything of substance to say, other than that I must be wrong a priori because I disagree with you. the smugness! It's really embarrassing, especially because you probably feel all high and mighty about what a "reasonable" person you are since you are a Democrat and not a Republican. Actually you are just locked in the echo chamber like everyone else
Your one comment about what Krugman wrote was a misunderstanding about what his comments meant and about the consequences of monetary policy. Yes, it was a pretty clear indication that you had little understanding of the topic. Or why don't you tell us where in that article Krugman is advocating "debasing our currency"?
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QE is debasing the currency. we don't have metallic money with fineness, we have fiat currency whose value is based on the price you pay for pulling arbitrary amounts of it out of the future. If you don't understand this, you are the one who doesn't understand monetary policy
On September 28 2014 02:04 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2014 01:35 bookwyrm wrote:
And our monetary policy is a disastrous death trap that can only end in meltdown. . you are totally right, go ahead and send me your worthless dollars, they are just debased pieces of paper, you wont miss them.
okay. I'll trade you for some land. Where is your land? Does it have water on it?
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On September 28 2014 03:19 bookwyrm wrote:
QE is debasing the currency. we don't have metallic money with fineness, we have fiat currency whose value is based on the price you pay for pulling arbitrary amounts of it out of the future. If you don't understand this, you are the one who doesn't understand monetary policy
How has QE debased the currency? Have you taken a look at inflation levels for the last few years?
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On September 28 2014 01:35 bookwyrm wrote:
Dude, there's 47 hours of leaked tapes demonstrating the Fed's complete regulatory capture
And our monetary policy is a disastrous death trap that can only end in meltdown. the Keynesians with their "stay the course" mentality about how we must have easy money indefinitely because (they explicitly say this) the only way to "stimulate the economy" (which is a poorly defined concept) is to inflate bubbles. And Krugman also writes editorials about how anyone who thinks that "economic growth" (another incoherent non-concept) has NO CONFLICT with environmental protection, which is just a stupid thing to say. OF COURSE there is a conflict between "economic growth" and the environment because in the metrics we use for "growth" blowing stuff up uselessly counts as GDP.
Krugman's entire editorials amount to "Hey guys... this really big obvious problem that you are all talking about? It's not a problem. I proved it! But you're too dumb to understand, so just believe me. Vote Obama" He's just a technocratic shill, his ideology is paper thin
edit @ above: not to mention "some podcast" is This American LIfe.
What's wrong with our monetary policy? Interest rates are low and this will cause a crash because... ?
If you want a counter-factual look to Sweden / EU. Sweden raised rates too early and the economy took a dive. The EU was less aggressive with monetary stimulation compared to the US / UK and they went into a double-dip recession with perhaps a third on the horizon.
Stimulating the economy is a pretty well defined concept. If you have questions about it, ask. The basic gist is that final demand is pretty stable, and so overall activity should be stable as well. But it isn't, and that's largely due to fluctuations in production, investment and the purchase of durable goods. All those things can be affected by interest rates and so monetary policy can temper the boom and bust in those categories.
The fiscal side works roughly the same way as well, just through different channels. For example, when times are good workers pay a lot into unemployment insurance funds, which limits their ability to buy things now. When times are bad they get paid UI benefits which expands their ability to buy things now. As a whole we don't do too great here, because we're much more likely on the fiscal side to stimulate when times are bad than tap the breaks when times are good.
On September 28 2014 03:19 bookwyrm wrote:
QE is debasing the currency. we don't have metallic money with fineness, we have fiat currency whose value is based on the price you pay for pulling arbitrary amounts of it out of the future. If you don't understand this, you are the one who doesn't understand monetary policy
If I'm reading you correctly that's a feature, not a bug. See above.
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On September 28 2014 03:19 bookwyrm wrote:
okay. I'll trade you for some land. Where is your land? Does it have water on it?
why trade, its useless debased paper. just give it to me, ill recycle it for you.
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On September 28 2014 03:23 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2014 03:19 bookwyrm wrote:
QE is debasing the currency. we don't have metallic money with fineness, we have fiat currency whose value is based on the price you pay for pulling arbitrary amounts of it out of the future. If you don't understand this, you are the one who doesn't understand monetary policy How has QE debased the currency? Have you taken a look at inflation levels for the last few years?
there's no objective measure for what is "inflation." Inflation in what? how do you measure it? Furthermore, inflationary signals do not enter the economy evenly. The price of food is up, there are massive asset bubbles in both real estate and equities. That's inflation. None of it is doing anything to solve the socio-economic problems of our society. We're told to just keep believing until we achieve something mythical called "escape velocity" (that's some fifties style sci-fi mythology there - rocketships away! into the future!)... but it won't happen. It's just a game to see how long everyone can keep believing. Because les non-dupes errent.
On September 28 2014 03:43 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2014 03:19 bookwyrm wrote:
okay. I'll trade you for some land. Where is your land? Does it have water on it? why trade, its useless debased paper. just give it to me, ill recycle it for you.
you're cute.
On September 28 2014 03:28 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2014 03:19 bookwyrm wrote:
QE is debasing the currency. we don't have metallic money with fineness, we have fiat currency whose value is based on the price you pay for pulling arbitrary amounts of it out of the future. If you don't understand this, you are the one who doesn't understand monetary policy If I'm reading you correctly that's a feature, not a bug. See above.
I understand the idea. I KNOW that they are doing it intentionally. I don't need you to explain to me in baby terms the narrative that I am explicitly critiquing. I understand what the Standard Official Narrative is. It's a fantasy. But really, I can't talk to you, it ruins my digestion.
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On September 28 2014 03:47 bookwyrm wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2014 03:23 kwizach wrote:On September 28 2014 03:19 bookwyrm wrote:
QE is debasing the currency. we don't have metallic money with fineness, we have fiat currency whose value is based on the price you pay for pulling arbitrary amounts of it out of the future. If you don't understand this, you are the one who doesn't understand monetary policy How has QE debased the currency? Have you taken a look at inflation levels for the last few years? there's no objective measure for what is "inflation." Inflation in what? how do you measure it? The price of food is up, there are massive asset bubbles in both real estate and equities. That's inflation. None of it is doing anything to solve the socio-economic problems of our society. We're told to just keep believing until we achieve something mythical called "escape velocity" (that's some fifties style sci-fi mythology there - rocketships away! into the future!)... but it won't happen. It's just a game to see how long everyone can keep believing. Because les non-dupes errent.
There are a few different measures the US Government uses, like the CPI. If you want something unrelated to the government you can look at MIT's Billion Prices Project http://bpp.mit.edu/
As for food prices rising, that isn't inflation. It's inflationary, that is, it contributes to inflation, but by itself it isn't inflation. Inflation is not prices of individual or categories of goods rising or falling (we're in a market economy, remember? prices are supposed to fluctuate) it's rather an overall rise in the price level.
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EPT
