*This thread is inspired by Stimy, and all of his manifestations. It is a discussion of moderation, and there are no reprucussions for posting your opinion in this thread.
There doesn't seem to be anything new here. Just another Stimy rant against the running of this site. A site which he has consistantly called a sewer, yet he spends more time on than almost anybody else. But, Stimy is not a stupid fella. He is able to analyze a situation and pick it apart. Heck, the guy is a self-proclaimed genius.
Reading what he wrote, and then looking back on my own moderation over the past couple months, I felt it was necessary to Stimy's beef some airtime. Undoubtedly I will be seen as a hypocrite, discussing his ideas after he is gone, but since I didn't pull the trigger I don't have control over that. There are only three people on this site that can unban (administrators), it is not a feature moderators can use.
So here is where I adress Stimy's comments about the way I moderate. Also, I think this is a good chance to get the forums input on how things are done.
TL.net Moderators These are the people who can ban, edit titles, move topis, post news/replays and post articles. Not all of them are active here.
Moderation of these forums is conducted by a group of individuals with different personalities and backgrounds. They have different beliefs and behaviours when it comes to moderation. For example, Drone believes: (these were taken from a discussion about fakesteve)
I think anything should go and people should be banned or kept based on whether they are overall a positive asset to the forums. I believe steve has been much more of a positive than negative asset to the forums, and I believe he still is, although much less than he used to be, and I think stimey used to be as well, until we made him really bitter. (and personally I still value his occasional gems, but now at least I understand why people think he sucks. )
and while we do have a rule-system implemented, I believe it should only be used to be an overall guide towards posters who haven't made any contributions.
While Twisted says this:
I don't think we should care about forum users telling us that we're doing a crappy job with the moderating. They can give feedback at the feedback forum about it in a normal manner, fakesteve doesn't do that, he just goes on a flamewar against a staffmember. And again, we have 'more rights' than normal posters, thus we should be able to flame/ban shitty posters when they deserve it, I mean that is kind of our job (at least some of it) as moderator here right?
While Nazgul says this:
I don't care what he has done but I'm not letting any of my staff members get insulted like that.
that's pretty much end of argument, if there was any to begin with.
and I really agree on giving people that contribute special treatment, but there has to be a line and that line has been crossed too often.
Waxangel believed nobody should be banned no matter what.
This is point #1. There are many ways that the rules are enforced. However, when one moderator decides to ban someone, very rarely is it questioned by the other moderators. Usually the group is in agreement. Sometimes it is questioned, and we discuss it. Sometimes it is reversed. Moderators are human and get in bad moods as much as anybody else. The reason people are chosen to be moderators is usually because they have the ability to say 'I was wrong'. Something not often seen on the internet.
For myself? I close a lot of threads. I personally believe that our forums are busy, and should be kept clean of things that are avoidable, searchable, irrelevant, or illegal. This is what I have done in the past 30 days in regards to closing threads:
- stimy- too many ppl (closed with flame) - checking icon spam thread - 11 year old wants a date site. - one sentence terran imbalence thread - japan vs usa that was highjacked by chuck norris (I should have left this open) - warez x5 (including one where i made a chuck norris joke... I am so ashamed) - spoiled results/nalra is chobo (I flamed killashark here) - repeat thread - old thread revived with 1 word - stategy post with no strategy x2 - liquibet beef x2 (the results were not going to be changed no matter what) - vod upload request - football thread, moved to a new one - ftw=wtf - watch korean tv in america? no.
I personally closed 21 out of a 132 threads. With most, I gave information or a different place to look. Some, I posted with warnings (especially warez). In at least four, I closed the thread after flaming the topic maker and/or posters. This is something that Stimy points out as being a problem.
On February 15 2006 05:36 mitsy wrote: gotta silence every discussion after you get your one word in? can't let ANYONE exist without you, how nice.. "this discussion should be stopped--after i say what i want." what a hypocrit abuser pussy you are.
As Drone says:
On February 16 2006 15:17 Liquid`Drone wrote: no our job is to moderate the forums, not to elevate ourselves to a level where we're allowed to post in a different manner from everyone else.
the best way to show what is proper behaviour is to behave properly. it's not about it being a democracy, it's about being consistent.
This is essentially what Stimy says. I am fully willing to admit that I will flame people and close topics that I don't agree with. Sometimes I feel I am right, and other times I feels that I make mistakes. The problem is that Stimy seems to think this forum is something other than a very popular clan site. He seems to think that I get some kind of charge out of it. He is wrong. In the end, this site is Team Liquid.
So please, if you wish to comment about how the site is moderated, if you can suggest changes, or have questions, this is the thread to do it in. Do you think too many threads are closed? Too many people are banned? Not enough?
I am not naive enough to think that Stimy will go away. He will be back. In fact, he is reading this right now. So, let's clear the air now for when he makes his return.
I am glad Mitsy is banned, but FakeSteve? Meh, he's a dick sometimes but it's meant to be funny. I see nothing wrong with trying to make someone laugh.
But, I respect your decision.
Edit: FUCK. I misspelled his name.
Anyways, I think that the site is moderated just fine. I've never had to ask why someone was banned. Honestly, I'm surprised I haven't been banned, as I've made a couple of posts that were way out of line. I'm just glad the mods here are forgiving. Either that or Rekrul was in a good mood when he saw them, if he saw them at all.
I've been lurking for a long time, and started posting in the last couple months. The thing I hate the most is when people randomly quote a post and blatantly go way off-topic to get attention. Please stay on topic if you are going to be funny. An example is the thread about the most useful starcraft unit, and someone quoted "SCV" and said "SCVs are niggers". Stop this, and moderation/deletion will not be needed!
On February 16 2006 22:34 pheer wrote: edit: The two posts above me are good examples
Sorry for laughing. I see nothing wrong with laughing at something. Fine, from now on you cannot express emotion in any way, shape, or form. Fair? Yes.
I don't see that kind of behavior as a problem for moderators. Conversation naturally drifts from topic to topic.
I'm glad Stimey's gone, always hated him, but Fakesteve rocks. His overall post quality wasn't the same anymore, though after that long break. He was starting to be like Stimey in some respects. Either way, he was still a great poster, especially those MSPaint threads that he did recently.
I tend to agree with drone's point of view but the Mods gotta do what you gotta do T_T
It would be almost impossible for me to see reason for permanently banning a member like steve since i remember reading his stuff from what back when i was just a random troll T_T But steve probably wont really care either way and when he is back im guessing it will be like nothing ever happened;o
As for mitsy welll
Stimey was great.
Lately he basically pisses people off cause he seems pissed at hte world in all of his posts but he does open up some discussion too i suppose. At the very least he always gives you something new to read every time you log in. But the thread he made after u closed his was way over the line, and its pretty obvious why he got banned. I guess it doesn't really matter if mitsy got perma banned or not because he will come back with another persona soon enough:D
I like how moderation is overall. Klogon, uhjoo, Twisted, and Mani close threads and ban with good reason. drone is a nice guy, probably too lax, a very laissez faire person, probably why I don't see eye to eye with his style of moderation. He would allow too much to just slide by. ;X
Steve has his appeal to the forums, sometimes witty, sometimes just amusing. I never understood stimey or mitsy. Just seemed like he spewed out bullshit with each post. (i.e. those massive posts about PGT maps when I'm pretty sure he doesn't even play at a level where maps would really affect him).
Stimey should be banned, but I like Steve so I'd say he shouldn't be banned . He's funny in a way that stimey is just stupid.
Also, I don't feel that you close too many topics. If anything, I think there are still too many worthless topics. Finally, I wish there was a higher standard of writing enforced here. I don't mean punishing people whose first language is not English, but things like "waz ur highest education level" as topics should be closed & the poster banned. Typing "waz" and "ur" is not to do with what language is your first language
First of all, sorry if i make any major grammar mistakes.
Things TL offers ( you might no use them all, but TL offers them): - Very updated korean progaming scene information. <- Most important - Quality vods. - Good strategy advice. - Good reps. - Good laughts. - Some good discussions (there were better times). - A place to chat/browse when you are bored. (irc + forum)
I think if all the people who i consider "funny" were banned, i woultn' t stop visiting this site but i would narrow the number of threads i would visit. Having a 'friendly' atmosphere in a forum or one in you can make jokes is pretty important though. It was makes a forum better than others IMO. I have no doubt that Steve contributed in some of the items listed above, and that misty did in none, except one or two laughts. So i guess my opinion goes along with Drone's. Every regular poster that contributes at least in some of the items above, deserves to be here imo.
As for moderation goes (about closing topics, not about banning), the only thing i hate is that there are some very funny posts in the Closed Forum. And closing some of them which could be updated or be talked about kind of sucks. Maybe there could be a Closed Forum for: Flamefest, topic revival, strategy threads without content; and a "Wasteland" Forum: where all the funny posts (like the being cheated by girlfriend with my dog) could go.
ps1: Isnt Carnac a Moderator too? or is he only limited to writing News?. ps2: We demand (?) a better buddy list
edit: Aww i forgot to mention, Steve topics always have something special, and are worth visiting
Travian thread, MS Paint threads, Skype Thread; to mention some of the lastest
Certainly glad stimy's gone, even when what he said was actualy fruitful the way it was presented just made it seem baseless and annoying.
As far as moderation goes, I honestly wish things were more tightly moderated for the most part. Even in a high quality thread you can figure on at least half of it being total shit like "yeah, what he said" or a quote of a quote with "yeah, I agree" or something completely off-topic/pointless. Though I understand the number of moderators is small and the number of posters is huge, especially compartively so it's hardly a surprise.
As for you, personally, mani. Quite often I don't agree with a lot that you say, but overall I think you do a good job as a moderator. You definitely flame more than I think any moderator should, but I understand why the majority of the time and the rest of the time is completely forgivable considering everything you've done. I don't see a problem with closing a thread after its usefulness has been served, though I can also see plenty of reason to not close them.
mani put it just perfect here and he is absolutely a GREAT mod
the fact that he's willing to share what goes on among the mods to the community at large should show that he cares
also let me add that modding or any other staffwork for this site is done out of the pure kindness of our hearts and a dedication to keeping this site the best damn site for sc gamers (this includes myself).
we get no pay, no bnet chicks, no free bjs, nothing
we do get occasional gratitude (which is thankfully accepted), but frankly we get flamed just as much as well (which we occasionally pay attention to).
powertripping occasionally happens, but tln in relative terms is very free of such individual tendencies. the moderators on this site are all considerate, thoughtful, and smart and in the end care about what happens with this site more than themselves.
so in sum, not everyone will be happy with our decisions, and because there are so many mods decisions will sometimes seem inconsistent (i personally am definitely still learning), but the sum product tends to be that we do a good job of keeping the quality of this site at a high level.
one last note: i would ask that if any of you want to constructively criticize modding, which for my part is always welcome, do it either in 1) the website feedback forum, or 2) via PM's.
According to me, the moderation is a difficult task. If you start trying to analyze each case, it will be difficult to say wether or not someone deserve a ban. There are always and there will always be, people that just want to insult or to provocate to attract some attention. According to me, i have never felt offended about the ban, temp/ban or about a closed topic. I mean come on, in real life for instance, when you start shouting or insulting the owner of a pub just cause you're drunk or just cause you want to attack someone, you will be led to the door in the next second. The same goes for this forum. I think 90% of the people of this forum have never been banned so it is not that hard to sometimes keep your idea for yourself and not post it on a board.
As i said, some people just think like that: They think: 1) a normal user is always cool and respect the rules 2) To attract attention, you need to be different. Conclusion: Provocation will attract attention. To my mind, i have much more respect for someone who can live with the rules than for someone who just acts stupidly.
The same goes for the genius stimy. 1) Noone usullay clame he is a genius 2) Genius are always different thant other people.
Conclusion: Claiming i am a genius makes me someone different-> if i am different, that implies i am a genius.
That's really sad according to me. So i live with it but i agree that you should ban someone if he is getting idiot and insulting.
Posting on a board implies not only rights , but also responsabilities. So keep on doing your work manifesto and the staff. You give us the right to browse and post on this board, so we must be aware that there are limits.
Stimey is a jerk, he always has been and he will not change, at least on the internet. I didn't actually know mitsy was stimey, I was always under the impression that he was gone and mitsy was just someone else I disliked.
But I think what Steve said, was said as a joke, and you could tell by what he was quoting, and he's a great asset to this website, he should get a second chance. At least imo.
On February 16 2006 23:12 NeoIllusions wrote: Carnac is a news writer, PoP is a liquibet updater (?)
What kind of updated buddy list are you asking for? Details would be helpful to Meat and Saro.
And I think mensrea should come back and be more active. <3
Like the one someone asked for in the feedback forum.
Basically: place it in where tournament is now, allow to see if there is someone online at the moment, and any useful added to would be great (anything to keep track of pms, liquidbet rank pos (?) :D)
I personally don't notice the moderation around here - which isn't a bad thing.
Granted, I don't really look in the General forum, which seems to be where all the 'drama' happens, but it seems like the posts and threads in Brood War and Strategy are... bearable, to say the least.
hmm, i'll take this opportunity to thank the mods for my two week ban. it taught me a lesson. if nazgul was pushing for a ban and eri saved my ass, then i want to say to naz that you made the right decision :O i think there are some times when people don't mean to be offensive, or they kind of gradually get more and more offensive/useless as they get used to posting at tlnet.. but there is always a point when a line is crossed and i think the proper punishment for that is a warning or temp ban. however if it's obvious that they're aware that they've crossed the line and have no intention of being reasonable, then a ban is absolutely appropriate
i dont know how much of this goes on through private messages, but i think that when considering a ban on a longtime member, the mods should at least communicate with the person a bit to get a feel for what's going on. sometimes people just have a bad day and take it out on tlnet, or they are being unintentionally offensive/useless, or whatever may be the case. if you can clarify to the person that what they're doing/did will not be tolerated and they are apologetic, then that is more useful than outright banning them.
finally i regret that i havent presented myself better so that perhaps my opinion would hold more weight to the people in charge. i'd love to be an admin (or respected as much as one) but obviously i havent demonstrated myself appropriately, so im sorry im not contributing as much as i could have
I feel like there are moderators here that are doing a sloppy job. They seem to be have the status because they are friends with ppl who run the site rather then because they want to do this job. But i always felt like you were doing a great job modding.
He seems to think that I get some kind of charge out of it. He is wrong. In the end, this site is Team Liquid.
I have to disagree here. This site is way past clan site level. It is the best community site on the net, at least when it comes to gaming. It is a national treasure!
p.s.: i personally am very glad steve is banned. I felt that the only reason this asshole with Rekrul-sized Ego was still here is because hes friend with mods. It is good that noone is above the law!=D
Also, I'll just kick in to say that I feel that you guys run the site very well, although you don't win the forum moderation pride for favorite way of moderating forums (that goes to SA). I don't particularly like how we do it on WGTour, unfortunately. Which is not intended to be a slight towards WGT, which I do care for, I just don't agree with how it's done, really
Now I'm not going to pretend that my opinion is more relavent than anyone else's, but at the same time I feel that as a person who posts here pretty much everyday (and in an opinionated fashion no less) I have a good feel on the terms and community here at TL.net.
I have said a shit load of things here, some not short of ethnic prejudice (though I think my problems with separtist French Canadians are justified), ideological predujice (yes Stimy I hate Emo kids, get over it), straight up unnecessary insults and the random racial balance (I hate PvZ) rant. Many of these things are hateful, redundant and downright unpreductive. However, since I articulate my arguements in a sound and intelligent way mods like Drone, Twisted, Rekrul, and even Cyric have put up with my shit. Not because they have to, or even because I make a good point. Mostly because they recognize that I care about the forums and any input I make is in some way working toward that.
I think that's the problem with Stimy. Outside of the fact that he's been banned a gagillion times, many of the threads and posts he makes seem to undermine the quality of the community and our chosen forums. He has made many a thread (like the one Mani linked) that seem to have no point outside of bringing down the whole community as a bunch of no name bitches bending to the ways of the "powerful mods" who through their influence have immunity and complete control.
As a user I feel I have all the control. If I didn't like it here, as Stimy evidently feels, I wouldn't come. And if the site sucked ass none of us would come and it would implode.
I feel that I get special treatment as a regular member. I haven't been here since the beginning, but in terms of discussion and activity within the past 2 years, I'm up there. Perhaps this skews my perception of the site, but I say shit that in retrospect SHOULD get me banned at times. But since my personality is known and generally accepted I get away with dumb ass posts that I can later diminish or take back, because the good chaps here respect my devotion to the community, the game, and the people that make it great.
Finally, as a person that takes every opporunity to insult the bitch SC "names" that try to ride their history as if it has anything to do with what they've done in the past 100 years, I appreciate Mani and his undying interest in SC and particularly Pro SC. We discuss each week's pro games in depth and we learn different things from each other every time.
If it weren't for Mani and the people who contribute, care, and love the game I wouldn't visit this site at all.
Stimy, you are obsessed with the politics and BS that come along with any forum...anywhere...anytime...
You forgot why you're here man. Get over it and try to appreciate the things that drew you here in the first place. Mani embody's the SC fanatic that I am, and that I wish all you poker loving posers still were.
Keep bringing the news Mani, and I'll be here to debate it at nausium with you. TL.net rules, and I'll never leave until you assholes force me out. Look at me being a big man. Fuck you all, I'm tough and shit...
...am I banned yet? Oh well, guess I'm not as cool as Stimy.
And yes, that is what I think of your rants. You're cool. You're a rebel. You're fighting for the people.
In general civility, where forums like the Republic of Pemberley are 10s and forums like the Yahoo news forums are 0s, teamliquid rates around a 3 or 4.
Personally it doesn't faze me. I have my own standard of behaviour, and occasionally I tresspass upon shameful ground, but generally my slip-ups are genuine slip-ups.
There are obvious cases where a few people have nary any standard of behaviour, and any valuable contribution is the exception rather than the rule. Unfortunately, the behaviours of these people are likely to be more influential than the behaviours of the converted. Every kid loves the more liberal of his parents, and every celebrity distinguished by his lack of prudence shows everyone that there is little to be gained from self-moderation, but on the contrary, sometimes worthlessness is recognized and turned into celebrity.
I don't understand why people love fakesteve, he is the first to admit his own worthlessness, but that's the kind of behaviour that will be perpectuated, left unchecked.
That's because people like FakeSteve come off as entertaining, whereas people who constantly talk about standards of behaviour, the converted, and how liking more liberal people is bad end up coming off as pompous asses. Anyway, I'm not trying to say UNBAN STEVE or something. It's entirely your choice who you let on the site or not. And I will agree that he went out of hand there -.-
Edit: The start of this post is not directed at mods btw, I mostly agree with what Twisted said, moderation-wise.
On February 15 2006 20:44 Vo- wrote: FUCK YOU AMERICA!
You've been warned.
FUCK YOU KLOGON!
Honestly, steve should not be brought back, there was no reason to say fuck you. And if it was a joke, what a shitty joke.
Oh and Trevor I thought this was funny,
do you think people like you for your analysis? for your gaming? your personality? no, they like you for your time and money. it gets the job done in areas they don't want to bother with. but why do you need to put your time and money out here? life been unfair to you?
I can say I am one person to answer yes to all his questions
On February 16 2006 23:41 NonY wrote: hmm, i'll take this opportunity to thank the mods for my two week ban. it taught me a lesson. if nazgul was pushing for a ban and eri saved my ass, then i want to say to naz that you made the right decision :O i think there are some times when people don't mean to be offensive, or they kind of gradually get more and more offensive/useless as they get used to posting at tlnet.. but there is always a point when a line is crossed and i think the proper punishment for that is a warning or temp ban. however if it's obvious that they're aware that they've crossed the line and have no intention of being reasonable, then a ban is absolutely appropriate
i dont know how much of this goes on through private messages, but i think that when considering a ban on a longtime member, the mods should at least communicate with the person a bit to get a feel for what's going on. sometimes people just have a bad day and take it out on tlnet, or they are being unintentionally offensive/useless, or whatever may be the case. if you can clarify to the person that what they're doing/did will not be tolerated and they are apologetic, then that is more useful than outright banning them.
finally i regret that i havent presented myself better so that perhaps my opinion would hold more weight to the people in charge. i'd love to be an admin (or respected as much as one) but obviously i havent demonstrated myself appropriately, so im sorry im not contributing as much as i could have
keep up the good work
I guess I missed it but what did you do that warranted a temp ban?
On February 16 2006 23:59 HnR)Insane wrote: That's because people like FakeSteve come off as entertaining, whereas people who constantly talk about standards of behaviour, the converted, and how liking more liberal people is bad end up coming off as pompous asses. Edit: not directed at mods btw, I mostly agree with what Twisted said, moderation-wise.
True. Although being a pompous ass is only a fault when one has nothing to be pompous about. In all other cases pompousness is honesty.
Seriously though, I'd be interested to hear about fakesteve's entertainment value. It's about as entertaining as the dialogue of an average b.net spam channel. Nothing personal against fakesteve.
On February 17 2006 00:13 tfeign wrote: Fakesteve is not funny nor entertaining. His inflated ego sucks and he doesn't know when to stfu. He spams more than Ekii.
Anyone care to quote me a post from Fakesteve within the last month that's entertaining?
On February 17 2006 00:18 tfeign wrote: Besides the paint topic? His text posts are all 90% spams.
The thing is, when fakesteve is being an ass, he is usually joking or doesn't care. Imo you come off as much more of an asshole them him or most ppl in *some* of your posts;(
Mani is right, we're all adults here and we have sometimes diffrent opinions. My opinion is that...well i didn't know we had moderation . In my time spent here i only seen like 30% of that mod list posting something interesting and new. Wait...make that 20%. Without the korean progaming coverage, this site would turn blue in 1 week top. The layout isn't attractive, the people are sometimes jerks, if we get lucky we'll get live reports, you don't have shortcuts or links to important stuff like W-Player FAQ and so on. Don't tell me that this site is moderated. It is, a little, but the lack of interest is abvious. Now, who is Stimy and what's his problem? I come here every day, actualy this is my first destination after i start my comp but i don't have a problem with the way manifesto expreses himself. Actually i don't know of any threads that have been closed by him. Maybe because i don't give a fuck about stupid threads so i don't read'em. I had a thread closed once or at least i think so. When i became sober again i remembered that i started somethin in the strategy forum but there wasn't anything so either i was dreaming or it got closed....but i understand. :D This site is still up only because of the wonderfull korean gaming scene.
Yes, that mitsy rant was just shooting himself in the head. I would have thought that mitsy's character shield would have saved him, but it so happened otherwise.
On February 16 2006 23:59 HnR)Insane wrote: That's because people like FakeSteve come off as entertaining, whereas people who constantly talk about standards of behaviour, the converted, and how liking more liberal people is bad end up coming off as pompous asses. Edit: not directed at mods btw, I mostly agree with what Twisted said, moderation-wise.
True. Although being a pompous ass is only a fault when one has nothing to be pompous about. In all other cases pompousness is honesty.
Seriously though, I'd be interested to hear about fakesteve's entertainment value. It's about as entertaining as the dialogue of an average b.net spam channel. Nothing personal against fakesteve.
I see this will eventually come down to Steve's paint threads and then one could use Hot Bid's checklist with a checked "Get a blog ffs!" line or something along those lines... But thing is, a lot of people on these forums like Steve's style... or something... and the way his insults are promoted, and all of that is undebatable. What is debatable tho is how low a form of entertainment that presents. My stance on this is obvious.
Anybody checked that link Moltke provided? The 10/10 site? This is an excerpt from a discussion on it, I somehow find it hilarious :
Since the characters are often so charming, I wonder if characters would, in different situations, have fallen in love with each other.
I will start by saying that - Anne Elliot is the only woman who appears to meet Darcy's (rather high) standards of what a truly accomplished woman should be. I don't think he would have be violently in love with her, but he might have admired her. Her family (though embarrasing) was near his level. He might have let himself fall in love. And perhaps they could have been happy together. But only if there was no prospect of Frederick Wentworth.
At first, Laurie couldn't decide which kind of tea she wanted. The camomile, which used to be her favorite for lazy evenings at home, now reminded her too much of Carl, who once said, in happier times, that he liked camomile. But she felt she must now, at all costs, keep her mind off Carl. His possessiveness was suffocating, and if she thought about him too much her asthma started acting up again. So camomile was out of the question.
On February 16 2006 15:17 Liquid`Drone wrote: no our job is to moderate the forums, not to elevate ourselves to a level where we're allowed to post in a different manner from everyone else.
the best way to show what is proper behaviour is to behave properly. it's not about it being a democracy, it's about being consistent.
That mitsy seemed pissed since alot of the threads he likes get closed.
It got me thinking. I don't see why threads have to be closed if they don't break the rules. Would they not dissappear by themselves when they loose interest?
I'm just speaking generally because I have seen this in many forums. A mod comes in and decides a thread needs to be closed because he does not find it interesting.
About tl.net I think the mods are great. Only thing is I want to point out is that there are alot of racist comments. I think that kinda stuff can scare some people away. So maybe give a warnig to people doing it if it's not already done.
Chaos is what makes this site great. That includes the mods, and the rules. Nothing should be cut in stone and I really loved the arbitrary judgments when rekrul still put the fear of god into the hearts of the newbies.
So PLEASE don't start over moderating the site to much, I have other communities for that. (Perhaps ban more idiots in the strategy section though.)
glad he's banned, i barely post, but reading a lot of that guy's stuff he's pretty crazy.. and has a really weird deep obsession with posting on teamliquid forums notice how all his replies to everything are 10 pages long.. i mean where does he get all the time for this, its like he's writing a book... maybe because its so full of shit that's why he can write so much..
Permanent stimey ban is good, but hell be back, and Ill be on the lookout for his next account . He needs his head examined though, hes desparate to be a mod. This ban probably pissed him off a lot, althoug he had to know it was coming. Ill still miss him though, the drama he creates is great entertainment.
Fakesteve 2 week ban is good, he posts too much crap, he was getting a little out of control and thats a warning to him. But he didnt need to be permabanned like mitsy did. If he doesnt come back this forum wont suffer much though, his contributions are not as great as some of you think.
Whoever those people were who said that fakesteve doesnt care about teamlqiuid.... LOL, no one who posts that much doesnt care.
i agree with the bans. they are regulars and have their upsides, but you can only give so much special treatment before it goes too far.
i mod gotfrag forums and trust me, this forum is up on mount sinai compared to that. TLnet is one of the best sites and forums i have ever been a part of, and that is something that i have realized with time, as well as with poor experiences with other forums.
here is my suggestion though: yes you do have the ten commandments, and yes common sense really should play a large role in whether a user should come or go. however i think not only should the regular contributors be let a little leeway, but as well as the newer members that have not yet caught on to the TLnet status quo. yeah, lots of mistakes are made by probes, drones, and scvs, but perma-banning may be a little harsh. a week ban at most for the first strike - give them a chance to reflect and mature so that they can possibly become contributors after the abeyance.
nonetheless, this community is still very close, the mods deserve all the respect, and rules are rules. rarely have i seen a mod make a ban mistake, so i do not think there needs to be much change as it is.
All I can say about moderation is I await the return of rekruls iron fist. His days of active moderation kept this place clean of retardation, held in the funny threads and kept the retards out.
On February 17 2006 02:21 tiffany wrote:yeah, lots of mistakes are made by probes, drones, and scvs, but perma-banning may be a little harsh. a week ban at most for the first strike - give them a chance to reflect and mature so that they can possibly become contributors after the abeyance.
I agree with that: I think not banning people permanently, and instead giving them a sort of "warning" by issuing a 1 week ban then a 2 or 3 week one for the next time before a permanent one is dealt would be a step towards both sides of the argument. Those who think more bans should be executed would get it their way since then more people could be put on ice for a shorter while without any serious consequences, and people like Drone would also have their "consistency", since then a pretty strict and straighforward attitude from the mods would be easy to uphold.
I personally believe this site is better off without Steve. Hell, even HE believes it'd be better off without him. He openly admits his sole purpose at this site is to troll, spam and make 1 liners.
On February 17 2006 03:19 RiSE wrote: I personally believe this site is better off without Steve. Hell, even HE believes it'd be better off without him. He openly admits his sole purpose at this site is to troll, spam and make 1 liners.
stimey never stimulated interesting discussions...
The reason his threads needed to be closed is because he would keep them open single handedly with endless flame wars defending his pointless threads.
You could tell from just the thread title on the main page that he was the creator of a given thread, because of the nature of its subject( pointlessly objectable ) He consistently brought otherwise good posters to his level then simply posted persistently until they gave up. Good job with the ban, i dont think he contributed to anything except peoples loathing.
I think that users who have been around for a while are actually often given too much leeway. Whenever I see someone become a consistent annoyance/bad poster, they get punished eventually but it usually takes a long time and a lot of repeated offenses. Sure, these guys have been around for a while so maybe they deserve to be cut some slack, but being around that long also means that they damn well know what the rules are and when they're taking it too far.
This is why I feel Mitsy should've been banned months ago (hell, I even think he should never have been allowed to come back in the first place, considering how annoying he was in the first place). He wasn't really breaking any rules but he was incredibly annoying, cluttering every thread with long inane posts. I realise it's pretty subjective to find someone annoying so I do understand it took this long to ban him (and the ban was certainly justified in this case, that rant thread went waaaay over the top.).
I don't really agree with Fakesteve's tempbanning but that's just because I think he's funny, I can see how some of the mods don't appreciate his style of humour. Obviously, these forums would be complete garbage if everybody posted like FakeSteve, but he's good at it and I think it makes some threads way more enjoyable to read. Oh well, just a 2 week ban anyway - I think he'll live.
As for new posters, I think it's good that the moderators crack down pretty hard on them when they make dumb mistakes (they should've read the Ten Commandments, it's all common sense really), but generally I feel that 2-3 week tempbans would be better than just outright banning them on the spot. This way, at least they'll get punished, they'll know what they did wrong and maybe they can stick around and become a good poster. Obviously this does not apply to the guys that occasionally show up with like 5 posts and start spamming racial slurs or whatever, the forums are better off without them.
I have a question, why are old threads even available to post in? It seems every time one is brought up there is usually little to contribute. Perhaps threads should be auto close after they haven't been active for x amount of time. Although with that said I feel mani does close topics to quicky. Some of the best topics/funniest post often come out of threads that start off as complete crap. If a thread is truly useless, I would think it would quickly be replaced by better topics with more to post about and would soon fall to the back so to speak.
As for bans unless a real policy is made regarding this I don't really see much point in discussing it. There is no way everyone is going to agree on what deserves a ban, so I don't see any real point in discussing it
guys i think what we're all missing is that steve got temp banned.
does anyone here really think he did't deserve one? except for his MSPaint threads he wasn't contributing anything and his ego still somehow getting bigger.
personnaly i think this forum takes it too seriously. its an online forum, its supposed to be chaotic.. its why people come to read them. they love gossip, e-drama, etc.
if u have an online mature/productive forum etc - make an invite forum with only people you want. banning people like hovz, jelloone, stimey, etc just makes forums uninteresting. when i come to this forum, i want to read a 1,000 page flame thread about how hovz owns everyone. its funny, its entertaining, its worth reading! anyway im drunk so this probably makes no sense at all, but my 2 cents is to unban everyone and only ban people under extreme circumstances (spamming, advertising, etc)
in all honesty tho, the spirit of this forum is dying imo - u banned the life of the party. maybe it is an ego problem with the admin, but eventually ur going to realize what you've done and how lonely u r!
I just now received a message from a new member of the forum who wishes to remain anonymous, at least at the time being
it goes something like this "I'm new here, so I just want to keep lurking. But I have noticed a peculiar contradiction.
In the thread where they are talking about moderation and Stimey, it seems no one has checked his profile (mitsy's). Ironically, his profile has links to discussions about moderation that have been shut down--offerring more about moderation than the entire thread."
and I still think stimey has contributed way more and is a way better poster than almost any non-moderator who wants him gone. and that all the "problems" between stimey and the forum has been caused more by the forum misinterpreting him than him being a bad poster. the problem is that his posts, unlike most others, need to be interpreted, because they're not quite as.. straight forward as most posts are.
and I also agree with tasteless. some of the funniest posts on the forum have been responses to some retard posting something hilariously stupid. sometimes it goes too far though, but different characters create discussion. there are posters who are very valuable to the forum whom I pretty much never ever agree with. we need people to make fun of, and ideally people who can retaliate. (like stimey. )
There's a difference in saying 1 liners and insults to be funny (Hot_Bid) and doing it to be a complete asshole (fakesteve)
casper wasn't banned, he only posts at liquidpoker.net now
at least now i won't have to see people arguing with mitsy about how pointless his existence is. Those back and forth flames were much more annoying than anything he ever posted.
my post was bad just because it was out of context. my opinion held plenty of validity in other contexts (contexts that im accustomed to being in 90% of the time). i forgot to accomodate short-sightedness, but being aware of how your audience will view your words is vital in any writing . . so i learned a lesson
and i disagree with tasteless. i dont come here primarily to be entertained; i come here primarily to be educated. perhaps most of the friction about bans is a matter of what people expect out of the forum. stimey has a lot of ideas he wishes to express, but he is an absolutely horrid writer as evidenced by all the controversy surrounding him. his ideas, presented properly with respect given where it's due, should not result in a ban. however his communication fails him and here we are. some people can look beyond how improperly he presents his ideas, and they value him. others are entertained by how he presents his ideas, and they value him. finally there are people who realize he has failed time and time again to fix his shortcomings, and are tired of him stirring up shit ---> ban
The way like this forum is handled requests actually almost to accept everyone, since not even all moderators aren´t all manner. Some ban with not much reason and handle bans biased. everyone that doesn´t agree there is blind .
Been here since ages with a good reason , even like a lot the mods i ment and maybe personal never cared a lot about "the moderation way" until it doesn´t go really in deep privat flaming. Sure flaming a mod with no reason deserves a ban, but as a reaction on "same language" is to understand, guess that´s allways been walking on thin line. Thats just normal when it comes to moderate forums where the public changes almost every day and community isn´t really getting more manner as they have been before
uhh stimey undeniably is intelligent and cares alot about this forum. He makes some great discussion and he often adds a arguement to stimulate discussion. But openly flaming the shit out of a moderator no matter how zany the moderator is, is stupid. If the admin is being that big of a dick you seek support through other mods or something, you dont spew 3rd grade disses out in a high/drunk misspelled orgy of incoherence. He deserves to be banned for being a dumbass to a moderator. He deserves to be missed for what he contributed otherwise.
But he should stay banned. Noway an admin gets that disrespected and just turns the cheek publicly.
to be honest, even I think stimeys ban was justified this time. hell, I'm pretty certain even stimey thinks so, this time. (none of the previous times though, and the only reason why stimey has responded the way he has been, towards mani and others, is what both I an him perceive as unfair behaviour towards him in the past. )
so there's not much point in discussing THAT ban. however, discussing the moderation of the site is always good, because it can always be improved upon and it cannot be improved without discussion.
but this time he was asking for it. however, that doesn't mean I won't miss stimey's contributions, although from experience, I won't be missing them that long.
glad that fakesteve is banned, he was an attention whore moron with very unintelligent posts, kinda upset that mitsy was banned though because he made well thought out posts and arguements.
On February 17 2006 06:19 Liquid`Drone wrote: and I still think stimey has contributed way more and is a way better poster than almost any non-moderator who wants him gone. and that all the "problems" between stimey and the forum has been caused more by the forum misinterpreting him than him being a bad poster. the problem is that his posts, unlike most others, need to be interpreted, because they're not quite as.. straight forward as most posts are.
I strongly disagree. His first 200 posts were contributions. Most were either funny, informative or good in another respect. I think we all know that he isn't a total dumbass intelligence wise and that he is able to make good posts. He has his good sides but they're totally outweighed by his ridiculously big ego. I won't ask you to point out some good posts because I know there are some and on a regular basis. However, when you squeeze one good post in between 20 full of flames, provocation for provocation's sake and arrogance, the one post you made is worthless.
If you unban stimey he'll pick up his efforts to make everything revolve around him, something he's really good at, only second to his attention whoring skill. We now he doesn't change, I assume he's been warned time and time again, he's been banned a couple of times... in the end he always returned to his old assholish self.
The whole purpose of this forum from my perpective is fun, information, advice and help generally. A place to hang out to socialise and discuss the things you want to, to joke around in some threads and be serious in others, to follow broodwar effectively, to stay up to date in everything related to progaming. IMO Moderators should ban anyone who uses this place solely to get attention, be an annoyance or spoil the fun. Casper for example might flame here and there and might only post one-liners, but as of late he doesn't post too much. He isn't annoying and doesn't take himself too seriously. That why he doesn't spoil anything. This should be the first commandment: If people are having fun, DON'T SPOIL IT. That way the first post of each thread explains how to behave in it. If it's funny or even nonsense, most anything goes. If it's pure nonsense, flame or the display of uncalled hatred towards a race, a nation, a poster, whathaveyou and hasn't triggered anything useful admins should close it. If it's a thoughful post trying to make some points and backing them up and obviously intended to start a serious discussion, don't go overboard with "lol", "no", "you suck" or similar posts. Maybe there could even be a function that allowed proven posters (who should be hand-picked by the mods) to moderate their own threads, meaning that if they start a thread they can moderate it. This way people who like to take responsibilty can do just that and would relieve the mods while at the same time it wouldn't leave the forums at their mercy. How often do you start a thread? Of course that'd be a right that can be given but also withdrawn.
I disagree also with Manifesto7 when he says that in the end this is Team Liquid. Really, this place has become so much more. Team Liquid, who are they? There's a reason why new users come here and don't even know what it is. If this is about Team Liquid why is this site so well programmed and thought out but doesn't even show their line up? What games do Team Liquid members play? Certainly not Broodwar. I don't say this to take credit from this once great Broodwar team, but the site has evolved, most of the mods and even the admins don't even wear the Liquid´ tag. This is IMO a Broodwar community site, partly run by people who once played Broodwar on the highest level.
On February 17 2006 03:19 RiSE wrote: I personally believe this site is better off without Steve. Hell, even HE believes it'd be better off without him. He openly admits his sole purpose at this site is to troll, spam and make 1 liners.
but nobody does it better than Steve
Casper put up a good fight.
Steve put up a good fight against Casper. Casper is and always will be the best at 1 liners.
Well I'm in disagreement with most posters. I'm not like a fan of stimey but then again every1 just hops on the flame stimey bandwagon for no good reason. I like steve but IMO steve has a bigger ego than stimey, makes more useless posts, and makes less contributive posts. It's just that he's funny so people think he's a good guy. Stimey can be funny but usually, like drone said, you have to 'interpret' his posts a little more so people just basically write him off (which seems like an "everyone else is doing it" kind of mentality).
I like pretty much all the moderators on this site. That being said, I'm definetely on drone's side here and I think some of the posts in this very thread reflect why. Look back at some of the posts and you see this stuff: "I'm surprised I haven't been banned... at least the mods were merciful". When you post something and sit there afraid that you just might get banned for it there is something wrong. IMO the people who deserve to be banned are the people like that xd2 guy who just got banned who have like 50 posts and every recent thread contains a post of theirs along the lines of "roflzzzz!!!!" or "lol n00b". That's bannable. And when someone steps way over the line, like stimey did, he deserved a ban. But like drone said it was largely a product of an unwarranted attitude against him. This is an exaggerated example but... when some kid gets made fun of and has no friends growing up then he in turn becomes a psycho killer, who's really to blame? I'm not saying that what the killer (or stimey) did was justified but let's be honest, what was the source. I contend that it was the general public and their attitude. Steve is a totally different case and he shares none of my sympathy in this regard. Its just that people like him so we unban him. ..Which I agree that we should unban him, but I guess I just don't agree with the general philosophy of banning here.
the reason why stimey is involved in so many flamewars is there are a whole shitload of stupid fucking idiots who flame any post he posts without even trying to understand it. how the fuck do you expect him to respond to that?
of course he made some bad posts, everyone makes bad posts, and stimey's genius is a very inconsistent one. but people constantly give him shit based on his reputation, and through doing so they only transform him into what they hate. there's a reason why every time he has made a new account, the new account has been a forum favourite until people found out who it was, then he started getting shat on constantly (sometimes justified, but far from all the time.) and then he started getting involved in flamewars until he eventually flamed the wrong person and got banned.
he does have one serious flaw when forumposting, and that is, he keeps grudges. and, when pretty much everyone he has flamed has the same flaw, the conflict just keeps escalating. if people stopped giving stimey shit, stimey would stop giving people shit, and he would then be a much better poster than he has been for the past 1000 posts. a conflict is never onesided.
I just like to say I like all mods except manifesto7. As for banning mitsy well, nobody is offended by him, but I also don't think anyone appreciates him so it doesn't really matter if he is banned or not because nobody cares or will care. I think some people will disagree with fakesteve though as he was often 'funny'. I found him a total lame ass, however the picture he made with terroru and casper was art and I can still remember it;)
On February 17 2006 06:19 Liquid`Drone wrote: and I still think stimey has contributed way more and is a way better poster than almost any non-moderator who wants him gone. and that all the "problems" between stimey and the forum has been caused more by the forum misinterpreting him than him being a bad poster. the problem is that his posts, unlike most others, need to be interpreted, because they're not quite as.. straight forward as most posts are.
I strongly disagree. His first 200 posts were contributions. Most were either funny, informative or good in another respect. I think we all know that he isn't a total dumbass intelligence wise and that he is able to make good posts. He has his good sides but they're totally outweighed by his ridiculously big ego. I won't ask you to point out some good posts because I know there are some and on a regular basis. However, when you squeeze one good post in between 20 full of flames, provocation for provocation's sake and arrogance, the one post you made is worthless.
If you unban stimey he'll pick up his efforts to make everything revolve around him, something he's really good at, only second to his attention whoring skill. We now he doesn't change, I assume he's been warned time and time again, he's been banned a couple of times... in the end he always returned to his old assholish self.
The whole purpose of this forum from my perpective is fun, information, advice and help generally. A place to hang out to socialise and discuss the things you want to, to joke around in some threads and be serious in others, to follow broodwar effectively, to stay up to date in everything related to progaming. IMO Moderators should ban anyone who uses this place solely to get attention, be an annoyance or spoil the fun. Casper for example might flame here and there and might only post one-liners, but as of late he doesn't post too much. He isn't annoying and doesn't take himself too seriously. That why he doesn't spoil anything. This should be the first commandment: If people are having fun, DON'T SPOIL IT. That way the first post of each thread explains how to behave in it. If it's funny or even nonsense, most anything goes. If it's pure nonsense, flame or the display of uncalled hatred towards a race, a nation, a poster, whathaveyou and hasn't triggered anything useful admins should close it. If it's a thoughful post trying to make some points and backing them up and obviously intended to start a serious discussion, don't go overboard with "lol", "no", "you suck" or similar posts. Maybe there could even be a function that allowed proven posters (who should be hand-picked by the mods) to moderate their own threads, meaning that if they start a thread they can moderate it. This way people who like to take responsibilty can do just that and would relieve the mods while at the same time it wouldn't leave the forums at their mercy. How often do you start a thread? Of course that'd be a right that can be given but also withdrawn.
I disagree also with Manifesto7 when he says that in the end this is Team Liquid. Really, this place has become so much more. Team Liquid, who are they? There's a reason why new users come here and don't even know what it is. If this is about Team Liquid why is this site so well programmed and thought out but doesn't even show their line up? What games do Team Liquid members play? Certainly not Broodwar. I don't say this to take credit from this once great Broodwar team, but the site has evolved, most of the mods and even the admins don't even wear the Liquid´ tag. This is IMO a Broodwar community site, partly run by people who once played Broodwar on the highest level.
This is still TeamLiquid and will always be, no matter what community uses this forum. It might be that the newer member don´t go to this forum because of the TL-members, their reason maybe is the info about the korean leagues. For me and a lot other ppl it is still because of Liquid in general and our own player. koreans might be better, but honestly they do not care if you cheer for them or not, they don´t read forums here, they won´t talk to most of you. Our nonkorean player do.
And no i would not agree that every random user is able to mod here in threads, reason: the nature of humans is to react biased, this fit for 90 % of ppl here too and it would just give hell mess if everyone would be able to live out their feelings in here
On February 17 2006 08:26 MyLostTemple wrote: this isnt that big of a deal guys, just fyi
this isn't a big deal! wow! lets just go post that in every thread, because nothing is a big deal to me, i am superman! fyi im so much cooler than everyone in this thread, fyi fyi, because this isnt a big deal to me, even though i take time to make an annoying post so i look cool in a thread with genuine discussion!
*This thread is inspired by Stimy, and all of his manifestations. It is a discussion of moderation, and there are no reprucussions for posting your opinion in this thread.
Cool. IMO posts that are shitty and mods don't like should just be removed, no need to ban people. However that rant that I just saw Mitsy do that was like 12 posts in a row all insulting one guy, ya thats a worthy ban.
A friend of mine named "Resse" was a member he. In a thread where that mnm chick cryed about how she was a real life loser with no self esteem he made the post "aww poor girl". Following this UHJOO banned him. Now if a comment like that is worthy of a ban then that is fucking rediculous. Sure UHJOO does nice reports and is a korean who speaks english(good for u) he should not have the power to ban people over shit like that.
Bans should be to a minimum.. Unless someone is consistently being an asshole insulting a person they really shouldn't be banned. Obviously this is just my opinion and the site is going to do whatever the hell they want. But different posters with differenty styles(annoying or otherwise) make the place more lively and shouldn't be banned.
one thing you have to know about bannings on this site is, every time someone gets banned, whoever bans the poster will look at whoever gets banned's posting history. basically usually first someone notices a really bad post, then we look at posting history of the person, and then if the person banned has a history of making really shitty posts, he gets banned. if that post was one of if not the only bad posts, he does not get banned, or if that post was really really really shitty and most of his posts are good, then he gets tempbanned.
I do agree that bans should be kept to a minimum, and while there are many bans that haven't been entirely justified, the only ban, ever, which I think made the site worse, was stimeys initial ban.
On February 17 2006 08:16 Ilvy wrote: And no i would not agree that every random user is able to mod here in threads, reason: the nature of humans is to react biased, this fit for 90 % of ppl here too and it would just give hell mess if everyone would be able to live out their feelings in here
you either didn't read properly or didn't understand, I wasn't talking about every random user, but handpicked invididuals.
I think the thing is that some people find interesting what other people do not. Like I consitantly will skim over posts by fakesteve just because I don't find them funny, but I'm sure some people do so why ban him when you can just ignore him?
If you don't like what someone says you don't have to read their posts. A feature that another forum that I was on used to have was to ignore certain users. I think that would be great here.
I believe that the mods are doing a very sound job. With this community always continuing to grow, it is very obvious that there will be "dumb asses" who will be roaming around spamming, making picture threads every 2 days, and personally gloating with "Ask me any question you want" threads.
Fakesteve got what he deserved.
As for mitsy, he was a very itelligent poster. On the other hand, like in the thread mentioned by Mani, i believe that if he was attacking any member on this community, let alone a mod, he deserved to be banned, because that just isn't right.
Keep up the good work everyone, you are appreciated.
On February 17 2006 08:26 MyLostTemple wrote: this isnt that big of a deal guys, just fyi
this isn't a big deal! wow! lets just go post that in every thread, because nothing is a big deal to me, i am superman! fyi im so much cooler than everyone in this thread, fyi fyi, because this isnt a big deal to me, even though i take time to make an annoying post so i look cool in a thread with genuine discussion!
I think its sad that mitsy/stimey got banned. I think he contributed a LOT more than about 95% of all other posters. Ok, he was in love with himself but he actually was/is smarter and more witty than pretty much all others.
EDIT. read the attack on manifesto. Thats just wrong and I agree with the ban now. Too bad he couldnt hold his temper.
I do agree that bans should be kept to a minimum, and while there are many bans that haven't been entirely justified, the only ban, ever, which I think made the site worse, was stimeys initial ban.
On February 17 2006 08:46 Dutch wrote: A friend of mine named "Resse" was a member he. In a thread where that mnm chick cryed about how she was a real life loser with no self esteem he made the post "aww poor girl". Following this UHJOO banned him. Now if a comment like that is worthy of a ban then that is fucking rediculous. Sure UHJOO does nice reports and is a korean who speaks english(good for u) he should not have the power to ban people over shit like that.
well DUTCH i agree it's good for me that i am an american who speaks korean
but that has nothing whatsoever to do with my mod status, thanks for playing!
just to clarify what drone said: idiot posts are a "red flag" for mods. we see an unusually stupid, inane, useless, or inflammatory post and wonder to what extend this idiocy extends: is it a habitual idiocy, or a one-time mistake? and by their idiocy, does this person add anything to the site, or only detract from it? it's a rather thought-out process and for me and never spur of the moment
if i banned people based on a few bad posts (or even one really bad one), rekrul would look like mother theresa next to how many people i'd ban. in fact, you would already be banned, so your theory about my power tripping and thoughtlessness is
Well I think stimey doesn't like me because of a few threads that I posted my opinion in that were against his... OMG Someone has a different opinion then mine?! He is a bad poster! Anyways, I think id probably want to read stimy's stuff, or atleast attempt too, if he had summerizing skills. I mean I don't want to read an entire essay. And yeah we all know he's incredibly intelligent, but im sure like most of you I got tired of "IM A GENIOUS" "DUH IM A FUCKING GENIOUS" "GENIOUG GENIOUS" wegqwgsegagashasdlasdgnsldg. Now if he was jokeing about being that egotistical well I can't tell. I can never ever tell if he ever jokes. He's way to serious always atleast the large lump of text I managed to read. Oh well, good luck stimey, I think you're a good person. I just think you have more to learn, just like everyone.
On February 17 2006 07:58 Liquid`Drone wrote: the reason why stimey is involved in so many flamewars is there are a whole shitload of stupid fucking idiots who flame any post he posts without even trying to understand it. how the fuck do you expect him to respond to that?
of course he made some bad posts, everyone makes bad posts, and stimey's genius is a very inconsistent one. but people constantly give him shit based on his reputation, and through doing so they only transform him into what they hate. there's a reason why every time he has made a new account, the new account has been a forum favourite until people found out who it was, then he started getting shat on constantly (sometimes justified, but far from all the time.) and then he started getting involved in flamewars until he eventually flamed the wrong person and got banned.
he does have one serious flaw when forumposting, and that is, he keeps grudges. and, when pretty much everyone he has flamed has the same flaw, the conflict just keeps escalating. if people stopped giving stimey shit, stimey would stop giving people shit, and he would then be a much better poster than he has been for the past 1000 posts. a conflict is never onesided.
You give him too much credit, and I'm not sure why.
I really, really, really liked stimey (still do in fact). But if you disagree with him on thing, he will ignore everything you say. Everything, and claim you're holding a grudge against him whenever you disagree with the littlest thing, for the rest of time.
You say a conflict needs two people. That's right. But just because I'm disagreeing with him, doesn't mean I'm on some sort of twisted vendetta. Sometimes when people don't agree it is because they hate each other. But he assumed that was the case time
He really got me so pissed (to the point where I probably should have been banned... hope the statute of limitations has worn on that one) that I flamed him almost as bad as he flamed manifesto.
He will never change his mind about everything. He always thinks he's right. And he's... a neat poster.
On February 17 2006 10:44 Chibi[OWNS] wrote: how can you ban someone like reese just because you don't like his attitude
Someone's attitude can be a perfectly valid reason for a ban. I didn't know reese at all, or the circumstances surrounding what happened to him, but still... if someone has a bad attitude, that is going to affect everything they write/do here, and that will have a negative impact on other posters.
On February 17 2006 08:46 Dutch wrote: A friend of mine named "Resse" was a member he. In a thread where that mnm chick cryed about how she was a real life loser with no self esteem he made the post "aww poor girl". Following this UHJOO banned him. Now if a comment like that is worthy of a ban then that is fucking rediculous. Sure UHJOO does nice reports and is a korean who speaks english(good for u) he should not have the power to ban people over shit like that.
well DUTCH i agree it's good for me that i am an american who speaks korean
but that has nothing whatsoever to do with my mod status, thanks for playing!
just to clarify what drone said: idiot posts are a "red flag" for mods. we see an unusually stupid, inane, useless, or inflammatory post and wonder to what extend this idiocy extends: is it a habitual idiocy, or a one-time mistake? and by their idiocy, does this person add anything to the site, or only detract from it? it's a rather thought-out process and for me and never spur of the moment
if i banned people based on a few bad posts (or even one really bad one), rekrul would look like mother theresa next to how many people i'd ban. in fact, you would already be banned, so your theory about my power tripping and thoughtlessness is
WRONG
- UHJOO
Great I'm glad you're laid back, laid back enough to admit your crush on mnm? Haha.
I hated him because he was so full of himself and he just cared too much about this forum. He was so convinced he was the only one contributing and he thought of everyone contradicting him as wrong. I wanted to punch him in the face
On February 16 2006 22:29 rpf289 wrote: I am glad Mitsy is banned, but FakeSteve? Meh, he's a dick sometimes but it's meant to be funny. I see nothing wrong with trying to make someone laugh.
he's not "a dick sometimes". all he has been doing for the last months is cursing at other users and writing in all caps. the time in which he was anything close to remotely funny and contributing were over like a year ago.
On February 17 2006 11:17 nova_442 wrote: RIP Stimey, the only thing you did on this site was post flamebait topics for the controversy and then defend the shit out of them.
I do agree that people who start shit in EVERY FUCKING THREAD they are in should be banned.
There are a few people here who seem to like to flame/argue all the time in every thread and never even attempt to see the other persons point of view at all. THen you have people who dont understand sarcasm at all, or who are apparently too stupid in interpert(sp) (ironY) a post properly and then attempt to flame a person afterwards.
On February 17 2006 11:24 Liquid`Drone wrote: carnac you really can't have read his paint threads if that's how you feel..
Nowadays there are only very few threads I actually click on to read them in the general forum and the posts of Steve I read anywhere else certainly don't raise my will to click on threads started by Steve...
Almost anyone can make funny paint pictures though...
i never got why people took such issue with stimey. he's over the top, yeah, but he's one of the few people who reads posts. half the shit he gets flamed for are people catching a line or two out of his mammoth posts, and then responding to his statements taken out of context. i can understand why he was frustrated. anyway, hope he comes back
For some reason I feel impartial to most of this. Although creating a thread for the sole purpose of biting the hand that feeds... is well risky. Looks like Stimy crossed the line this time. But I'm a softy at heart, I couldn't keep anyone banned forever.
He banned me (Syst[eM]) after a discussion of politics. He didn't say a word or tell anyone that I was banned for what I said, because he knew that he would be flamed for his ridiculous abuse of power. He was the person calling the names, saying that I was an idiot, moron, etc. And he banned me when I accused him of putting words in my mouth (which he did) and of ignoring my questions by just asking more of his own (which he also did).
I PM'd Liquid'Meat on LiquidPoker, where I have also been a contributive poster and asked him to reconsider my ban and gave him several valid reasons why uhjoo was abusing his power. I still await a response.
In closing, uhjoo abuses and Liquid'Meat doesn't care.
On February 16 2006 23:50 ManaBlue wrote: However, since I articulate my arguements in a sound and intelligent way mods like Drone, Twisted, Rekrul, and even Cyric have put up with my shit.
This either makes me out to be one of the more intelligent or one of the less tolerant mods.. which is it? (j/k btw)
As to Stimey, I eventually began to ignore him. It's the same ol thing over and over, and I don't think he'll ever rub me the right way with his antagonistic approach to expressing his views. I'm not going to pretend that I won't vehemently defend or promote an opinion I hold in a debate, but I think Stimey takes it further than most with the way he is always on the attack.
He can say all he wants about how he only argues so much against the way things are because he sees so much unrealized potential in regards to the forums, but it's really just him trying to impose his own view of how the forums should be on everyone else. It's just the nature of this site that it will be run according to the views of an assorted, numerous group of admins/mods, and I actually think that's what makes it what it is. There are ways in which the site could be improved, but again I will say that Stimey messed up in how he went about making his suggestions. His suggestions frequently reached the point of demands, and that rarely if ever works with anyone. This is particularly true when the people upon who the demands are being made are a group of people putting in work for little or no return or reward, as the TL.net staff is.
With Stimey it's always been about how he said/did things, not necessarily what he said/did. Ever since his first ban, he has seemed to develop a self-destruct tendency where he would get whatever persona he had created after some time had passed. Guess it was time for "mitsy".
I don't know what you were reading. I was arguing with only Rpf and uhjoo, which last I checked, isn't
everyone
. My posts were at least as well thought out as theirs, especially since RPF says this gem,
I personally don't know how it works, but all I know is that it's complete bullshit.
The fact is that he attacked something without knowing what it was, and I defended it. He decided that I should give him a definition and I told him it was retarded for him to argue without answering any questions (he later said the above quote, which explains why he didn't answer anything).
On January 25 2006 15:35 Syst[eM] wrote: It is correct, and rpf is a moron for not responding to anything I said. All he did was tell me what I didn't say and tell us what we already know.
Why should I have to explain how it works? Can't you go read up on it? Everything I've said has been factual and the fact that I haven't explained every little detail of every little thing doesn't mean that I don't know how they work.
P.S. You and Uhjoo still aren't responding to what I say, you are responding to what I don't.
Half of your initial post was a complete flame of rpf, the other half was you saying that the electoral system works fine, but then you state that
On January 23 2006 13:20 Syst[eM] wrote: The majority of votes has lost before because of electoral voting, and it has gone both ways. Just because you're ignorant and you think that Americans are idiots along with the fact that you seem to thing a majority of us are
Then later you state that you think there should be a change in the electoral college system. What are they supposed to respond to when all you're doing is flaming them, then flip flopping? The only things you keep saying are "you're stupid" and "that's completely wrong." How are they supposed to respond with anything other than flaming?
If I remember the thread right (It's been a month and I don't feel like re-reading the thread) you never backed up your "superior knowledge of the electoral college system," or however you said it. All you would repeat is that you knew more than them over and over again, which isn't really helping at all, now is it?
The moderators may not get a charge out of banning/flamming people... but I honestly believe that fakesteve did it because he could. Fakesteve thought as long as he had his guitar, nobody could touch him.. come on ... he's fakesteve... well uhh wake up steve... you're banned?!? Nobody should feel like they are above anyone on this site with the exception of maybe the admin/moderators.(they must keep order after all). And when you disagree with someone's point of view, opinion, attack the idea not the person. Back up your ideas with facts if possible.. Makes you more credible.... there should be a special thread where people can be debased for people's amusement... We always talk about how quality threads have good debate and many different perspectives that are explored. Flame is just garbage... Ohh and about the special treatment to those who contribute greatly to the tl.net forums: I agree to a certain point. I believe they should have more lienancy when posting, however I do not believe that being a great contributor to the forums gives you license to flame people. And again I say, attack people's opinions, bring in counter arguments etc... and leave the flaming for some other newb forum. Attacking a person accomplishes nothing, you have not proved your point other than the fact that you are too dull witted to come up with something better.
Syst[eM]atic, if you want "justice" you need to act less aggressive to other posters by not saying "idoit or moron" to show the contrast between the bully and the victim ( but then you will not be banned in the first place). I agree ujhoo might have been unreasonble to ban you, but the fact that u got banned is also partly becaue of your disrespect to other posters. You have to show respect to other people if you want supports from them.
So much bitching about Fakesteve being banned, he had it comming, he is funny indeed, but somehow one day he woke up and decided he was the owner of TL.NET, and he became pathetic, every thread he made was a lame attempt for attention, i hope this temp ban serves him as a slap in the face for him to wake up.
About Stimy omfg fish i dont think i need to elaborate in here... His "genius" apparently was only percieved by Eri, but he sucks, he has always sucked and he will always suck.
I think the only reason for him to stay longer is that rea wanted a mini-me in the forum
For fucks sake... im HERE!, a living proof that moderators are not trigger happy at all.
On February 17 2006 14:41 Syst[eM]atic wrote: uhjoo is a horrible moderator.
He banned me (Syst[eM]) after a discussion of politics. He didn't say a word or tell anyone that I was banned for what I said, because he knew that he would be flamed for his ridiculous abuse of power. He was the person calling the names, saying that I was an idiot, moron, etc. And he banned me when I accused him of putting words in my mouth (which he did) and of ignoring my questions by just asking more of his own (which he also did).
I PM'd Liquid'Meat on LiquidPoker, where I have also been a contributive poster and asked him to reconsider my ban and gave him several valid reasons why uhjoo was abusing his power. I still await a response.
In closing, uhjoo abuses and Liquid'Meat doesn't care.
the reason i banned you was not that politics thread
your dumbass posts there just indicated to me you might be a candidate to get banned, and once i looked at all your posts, i made the apparently right decision to ban you, since it's obvious you still haven't learned a damn thing
i should ban you again, but one more chance for you, make it count
Hmm, I think I jumped on the hate stimy bandwagon a bit too early. Anybody eri thinks of that highly (he's said good things about him everytime I can remember the subject being brought up) must have some good points. I honestly can't think of a person that eri has "defended" that I can't see good in.
Even (especially) Corbalt. I saw just how bad he was when he was countered on a subject and just how much I totally disagreed with everything he thought about damn near everything...and then I met him on b.net. And found out that I actually really like the guy. I still strongly disagree with him on everything just about but that just means I avoid all that stuff. I owe him a debt of gratitude, really, as watching reps with him of him v tsu was really helpful to me when I was learning the game. Say what you want about him (and I know you guys probably will) he is, or at least was, a good BW player.
Point of that was to say that I don't know stimy. At all, the only thing I have to go by is his posts in the strategy section (which is basically the only place I go here), and I didn't see anything remotely useful in any of them that I remember. What I did see was him getting flamed and flaming back every 2 seconds, which is almost exactly the same as corb. So, maybe he really is a good guy at heart and just became insanely cynical (again, like corb) because of the way he was treated in the past (I have no clue whether this was caused by him [like corb] or not [as eri seems to believe]). But either way I think I need to jump back off the bandwagon.
Still think he's stupid for doing what he did this time. But it's certainly conceivable that earlier events could have been handled differently to avoid the situation altogether. But I don't know whether that means a moderation problem or a community at large problem.
And to those making public statements about being wrongly banned. It's hard to believe if you're handling it in that way. Doing something like that publicly shows a severe lack of maturity and hardly makes your case believable. If you're wrongly banned and allowed back or come back just act right and try to handly your problems through PM's, never ever into the public eye. That's just common sense. :|
I never had anything against Stimy despite his frequent clogging up of the forums (which after a while I got desensitized to, he kinda unintentionally became an 'asset' to the general forum for keeping it active at least) and I always liked FakeSteve for his great humour but both kinda deserved what they got for what they did.
TL.net's great but sometimes we should all remind ourselves it is an internet forum after all, whether you're a mod or a regular user or whoever, never taking anything too far without reason.
i only visit tl because of a mature community and pro-gaming news. the moderation i don't like very much, especially not the jokes about rekrul banning everyone since it's all true. i think some mods should change the attitude. now, when a new thread is created it seems like they think "what is wrong with this thread, how can i find a reason to lock it?" rather than "do i really have to use my admin powers here?"
banning and locking is the most annoying thing a moderator can do and they should only be used as a last action when nothing else works. try to think as in real life. do you think you can make people dissapear because they are annoying? do you also just interept in the middle of a discussion youre not even a part of and go "hey hey this is a useless discussion, shut up" and then make them shut up?
you are grownups and if you have to use the admin powers too often you should learn to solve problems rather than running away from them/making them dissapear temporarily.
stimey has the ability of a seven year old to take everything personal and create drama about nothing. I feel a bit sorry for him but he had it coming.
Hint for stimey: reading your posts in the last days is what inspired me to create the ignore thread in website feedback.
Dunno about fakesteve it's easy to ignore him because he does not make big posts like mitsy But so many off topic/king of the hill posts are not worthy of a moderator.
The only thing i didnt like about Mitsy was that every thread he post in it ends all flame war. Like everyone vs. Mitsy. And I stop reading his posts cause they are like 1 page long which can be simplified into one sentence.
TL is a great site i think because the moderators are lenient and fair. And people shouldnt be banned as long as they dont act like an ass or flame everyone and contribute. Like no moderator should be acting like a dictator but we need some moderation to keep the site tidy and neat.
On February 17 2006 18:22 joeki wrote: i only visit tl because of a mature community and pro-gaming news. the moderation i don't like very much, especially not the jokes about rekrul banning everyone since it's all true. i think some mods should change the attitude. now, when a new thread is created it seems like they think "what is wrong with this thread, how can i find a reason to lock it?" rather than "do i really have to use my admin powers here?"
banning and locking is the most annoying thing a moderator can do and they should only be used as a last action when nothing else works. try to think as in real life. do you think you can make people dissapear because they are annoying? do you also just interept in the middle of a discussion youre not even a part of and go "hey hey this is a useless discussion, shut up" and then make them shut up?
you are grownups and if you have to use the admin powers too often you should learn to solve problems rather than running away from them/making them dissapear temporarily.
You all act like they all ban a ridiculous amount of people. Most of the people banned all have less than 200 posts each, generally new people who haven't been following the rules. As a former forum mod, banning 200 users in 4 months really is NOT that much, considering how many were temp bans and new accounts by formerly banned people
And if you even look at the bans, Twisted prolly bans more people than rekrul.
The only thing I ask from TL.net is someway to keep up with threads I post on. Two days later I always forget about threads that I liked. If I use search it only returns threads where my name is mentioned, not threads in which I posted. This is annoying and stops me from contributing to the forum. What if I wanted to see the last thread fakesteve posted in; not the posts about him being banned? There is no way for me to do this.
On February 16 2006 23:50 ManaBlue wrote: However, since I articulate my arguements in a sound and intelligent way mods like Drone, Twisted, Rekrul, and even Cyric have put up with my shit.
This either makes me out to be one of the more intelligent or one of the less tolerant mods.. which is it? (j/k btw)
Haha, I guess it wasn't evident in my post since you can't hear my tone. Saying "even Cyric" was more so inspired by the fact that you rarely put up with bullshit logic, while the rest of those guys would forgive ignorant posts just because I'm so hugable.
about the general quality of the posters and moderators on this forum,
i think the moderators are good, but i personaly became sick of this site when i see somebody post a serious topic followed with an immidiate flame so somebody can look funny and make the other person look bad.
i see it happen so much, those are the people that should get banned, i agree with the moderators too, i feel people should be banned when they post stuff in topics that have nothing at ALL to do with that topic...
On February 17 2006 06:48 Liquid`Drone wrote: yeah ilvy is pretty much correct (like usual! :D ). some bans have been entirely caused by a moderator disliking a poster.
which is obviously bad.
Drone ftw.
Sometimes I get absolutely sick of ppl like Rek and Bey who are so immature in their behaviors and just ban ppl they don't like w/ little to no reason what so ever and people have to suck up to them. Someone makes a comment, kind of out of line yet still very funny to the very least, people replied "lol gold" and rek came, and went "Not funny!" then banned him. Then people would proceed and say "OMG 1000foot tall rekrul~ <3 <3" That's just sychophantic, and makes me want to throw up, real violently.
On February 17 2006 06:48 Liquid`Drone wrote: yeah ilvy is pretty much correct (like usual! :D ). some bans have been entirely caused by a moderator disliking a poster.
which is obviously bad.
Drone ftw.
Sometimes I get absolutely sick of ppl like Rek and Bey who are so immature in their behaviors and just ban ppl they don't like w/ little to no reason what so ever and people have to suck up to them. Someone makes a comment, kind of out of line yet still very funny to the very least, people replied "lol gold" and rek came, and went "Not funny!" then banned him. Then people would proceed and say "OMG 1000foot tall rekrul~ <3 <3" That's just sychophantic, and makes me want to throw up, real violently.
Someone please say that I'm a 1000foot tall-_-!!!!!!!! RWAAAAR!!!!
Edit: and uhjoo, don't pretend that being a moderator sucks. From experience, it doesn't. Obviously all of us like posting on forums (we're on a forum). So having more powers, and thus being more respected, is pretty important. And the TINY, TINY (let me stress this TINY!!!) bit of work you (not you in particular, but moderators in general) do, does not ruin the experience.
On February 17 2006 11:24 Liquid`Drone wrote: carnac you really can't have read his paint threads if that's how you feel..
Nowadays there are only very few threads I actually click on to read them in the general forum and the posts of Steve I read anywhere else certainly don't raise my will to click on threads started by Steve...
Almost anyone can make funny paint pictures though...
if you didn't open those threads, you should never claim that all his posts are useless.
the reason i banned you was not that politics thread
your dumbass posts there just indicated to me you might be a candidate to get banned, and once i looked at all your posts, i made the apparently right decision to ban you, since it's obvious you still haven't learned a damn thing
i should ban you again, but one more chance for you, make it count
You are a liar.
You didn't ban me because of anything but those posts.
I had over 300 posts and none of the other mods seemed to have a problem. You took the political argument too personally and that is why you banned me. There was a reason you banned me without saying a word. You knew it was ridiculously unjust and unreasonable. A much greater portion of my posts have been useful and relevant than those in political argument threads.
Since I've come back I've made nothing but posts having to do with the subject that are generally positive in tone (perhaps minus the previous one).
EDIT: These are all my opinions and should be taken with a grain of salt.
Syst[em]atic of course he banned you and said nothing because he is a coward. At least this time he warned you that if you say something he doesn't like he'll ban you.
Thinking about what drone was saying earlier about going through someones "quality" of posts before making a ban I now think is bull shit. Either a post goes over the top of what the ruels are and deserves a ban, or it doesn't. Looking at all their posts is pretty stupid because if the post was a flame or spam the poster would have been banned at the time.
On February 17 2006 19:09 ChoboCop wrote: The only thing I ask from TL.net is someway to keep up with threads I post on. Two days later I always forget about threads that I liked. If I use search it only returns threads where my name is mentioned, not threads in which I posted. This is annoying and stops me from contributing to the forum. What if I wanted to see the last thread fakesteve posted in; not the posts about him being banned? There is no way for me to do this.
A signature goes a looong way in solving that problem (not to mention other practical uses)...
On February 17 2006 19:09 ChoboCop wrote: The only thing I ask from TL.net is someway to keep up with threads I post on. Two days later I always forget about threads that I liked. If I use search it only returns threads where my name is mentioned, not threads in which I posted. This is annoying and stops me from contributing to the forum. What if I wanted to see the last thread fakesteve posted in; not the posts about him being banned? There is no way for me to do this.
A signature goes a looong way in solving that problem (not to mention other practical uses)...
-Mynock
holy shit.
i seriously never though of that, ever.
I just thought it was an e-penis thing. Guess i learned something new, still too lazy to do it though;/
On February 17 2006 06:48 Liquid`Drone wrote: yeah ilvy is pretty much correct (like usual! :D ). some bans have been entirely caused by a moderator disliking a poster.
which is obviously bad.
Drone ftw.
Sometimes I get absolutely sick of ppl like Rek and Bey who are so immature in their behaviors and just ban ppl they don't like w/ little to no reason what so ever and people have to suck up to them. Someone makes a comment, kind of out of line yet still very funny to the very least, people replied "lol gold" and rek came, and went "Not funny!" then banned him. Then people would proceed and say "OMG 1000foot tall rekrul~ <3 <3" That's just sychophantic, and makes me want to throw up, real violently.
agree 100%.
also, uhjoo just said in this thread that when he got pissed at a guy he discussed with, he actually looked up previous posts from that user just to find a reason to ban him. that makes me wanna throw up too.
On February 17 2006 06:48 Liquid`Drone wrote: yeah ilvy is pretty much correct (like usual! :D ). some bans have been entirely caused by a moderator disliking a poster.
which is obviously bad.
Drone ftw.
Sometimes I get absolutely sick of ppl like Rek and Bey who are so immature in their behaviors and just ban ppl they don't like w/ little to no reason what so ever and people have to suck up to them. Someone makes a comment, kind of out of line yet still very funny to the very least, people replied "lol gold" and rek came, and went "Not funny!" then banned him. Then people would proceed and say "OMG 1000foot tall rekrul~ <3 <3" That's just sychophantic, and makes me want to throw up, real violently.
agree 100%.
also, uhjoo just said in this thread that when he got pissed at a guy he discussed with, he actually looked up previous posts from that user just to find a reason to ban him. that makes me wanna throw up too.
Throw up?? ....
And he didn't say he searched FOR a reason to ban him, he said he searched to see IF this was a one-off moment, or continual thing, which was explained earlier...
okay i know why mitsy/stimey was banned, but was it a permanent ban? i for one thought that mitsy did have some good posts especially on the strategy forum, but on other posts he tended to leave himself open to flaming.
why was fakesteve banned?
what is trolling?
i'm sorry i'm asking so many questions i'm a freaking noob
Alot of people keep bringing up the fact that both of them made good posts. You don't really need to repeat this over and over. We all know already that they contributed at times. The issue that you could/should be debating over is whether this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?currentpage=2&topic_id=36848 and things alike should be allowed.
It's good to voice your opinion about it but I can already guarantee you that we will never ever let people who act like that stay on TL.
I haven't seen Bey make any bans like the one just mentioned. He's a good mod as far as I know. If you want to trash him like that it would be appreciated if you atleast showed some evidence/links.
When I PMed Bey why he didn't ban stimey after he made the Manifesto7-hate thread he responded: "suck a lot of modcock and thats what happens"
I don't question Bey in general, some of the best threads here are under his belt, but it just wasn't an appropriate response, especially seeing how eventually it went down the way I expected. I admit that my PM was kinda angry (the topic all in caps) but still.... of course I don't expect him to do what I want him to, but he could've written: "It's being taken into consideration, nothing more to say right now" or something like that. Not more effort than coming up with his attempt at humor.
On February 18 2006 01:23 jkillashark wrote: okay i know why mitsy/stimey was banned, but was it a permanent ban? i for one thought that mitsy did have some good posts especially on the strategy forum, but on other posts he tended to leave himself open to flaming.
On February 18 2006 05:04 distant_voice wrote: since you ask:
When I PMed Bey why he didn't ban stimey after he made the Manifesto7-hate thread he responded: "suck a lot of modcock and thats what happens"
I don't question Bey in general, some of the best threads here are under his belt, but it just wasn't an appropriate response, especially seeing how eventually it went down the way I expected. I admit that my PM was kinda angry (the topic all in caps) but still.... of course I don't expect him to do what I want him to, but he could've written: "It's being taken into consideration, nothing more to say right now" or something like that. Not more effort than coming up with his attempt at humor.
I think you misunderstood him. It's not an attempt at humor.
He's talking about the fact that there's admins in the team that like stimey no matter what he does. Bey is not in a position in our mod-team to take action on a sensitive issue like this one where other mods might disagree, and with that he decided not to ban stimey obviously.
I'm glad that this site has a high tolerance level in general, which has made for some great threads and laughs while also of course some generic BS threads.
About Stimey? He was amusing at first, but then he got kind of annoying, though the threads usually started out alright, they ended with nitpicking and epenis contests. I don't really care wether he's gone or here. Generally speaking, the posters can choose to ignore people for being retards, but of course this is a bit different when it comes to moderators and the ones in charge of running the site.
Fakesteve? Totally unfunny guy 90% of the time, and mostly just stale old generic insults.
Generally speaking though I'm glad the tolerance level is high on this site, because otherwise it would just be another boring politically correct site. Keep up the good work guys!
On February 18 2006 05:04 distant_voice wrote: since you ask:
When I PMed Bey why he didn't ban stimey after he made the Manifesto7-hate thread he responded: "suck a lot of modcock and thats what happens"
I don't question Bey in general, some of the best threads here are under his belt, but it just wasn't an appropriate response, especially seeing how eventually it went down the way I expected. I admit that my PM was kinda angry (the topic all in caps) but still.... of course I don't expect him to do what I want him to, but he could've written: "It's being taken into consideration, nothing more to say right now" or something like that. Not more effort than coming up with his attempt at humor.
Hahha, you wanted me to write a complete and sensible explanation after you pm'd me with:
'Subject: WHAT THE FUCK' containing the question 'why isn't mitsy banned after his last thread? Is he every mods' brother or what?'
Not an appropriate response to such a quality question? boo-hoo.
I don't read nor post on this forum nearly enough anymore to moderate people with a lot of posts and way more activity than me, thus I don't. I still feel that Stimey should be banned again and again and again though.
the way I see it I had every right to be angry since every other poster would've been banned instantly after making a topic like that, and neither stimey's nor your activity level had anything to say in this issue. And like I said I didn't expect a "complete and sensible explanation" but an insult was uncalled for. A one-liner like the one I posted above would've sufficed.
Bey was talking about how Stimey "sucks a lot of modcock", not suggesting that you should do that. If that's the way you got it then you have misunderstood his reply, there was nothing insulting in it.
f he had looked, which I'm damn sure he didn't, I wouldn't be on another name right now.
agree 100%.
also, uhjoo just said in this thread that when he got pissed at a guy he discussed with, he actually looked up previous posts from that user just to find a reason to ban him. that makes me wanna throw up too.
My problem is, he didn't FIND another reason to ban me. I know this simply because there wasn't one.
Throw up?? ....
And he didn't say he searched FOR a reason to ban him, he said he searched to see IF this was a one-off moment, or continual thing, which was explained earlier...
On February 18 2006 08:01 Mynock wrote: Bey was talking about how Stimey "sucks a lot of modcock", not suggesting that you should do that. If that's the way you got it then you have misunderstood his reply, there was nothing insulting in it.
-Mynock
I understood that he meant mitsy, it just wasn't obvious that he implied that mitsy's being popular among certain mods was the reason that he didn't ban him. So if he did I didn't get that part. Now,let's not talk about it anymore. Like I said, it's over, no hard feelings.
Serioulsy, FakeSteve is not funny and is just an arrogant ass to almost everyone. Some people think he is funny, but he really isn't. I almost NEVER see him write anything useful at all.
also, uhjoo just said in this thread that when he got pissed at a guy he discussed with, he actually looked up previous posts from that user just to find a reason to ban him. that makes me wanna throw up too.
My problem is, he didn't FIND another reason to ban me. I know this simply because there wasn't one.
And he didn't say he searched FOR a reason to ban him, he said he searched to see IF this was a one-off moment, or continual thing, which was explained earlier...
This is getting sad. Outside of all the bitching, the truth you're all meandering toward is that some of us like it here because we fit in well, are chummy with certain key posters, and fit the personality mould. That's it.
Stop trying to say that this place is about free expression, and pushing the boundaries of our thought and all that other BS Stimy tries to force feed you. Being a member here is like being in a click in some shitty high school. You get along with the group or you don't. Nothing more or less.
Boundary pushers always get burned at the stake eventually (and apparently in Stimy's case multiple times). No one should be surprised here. As for Steve, he was testing his boundaries, and now that he's been warned he knows the fenced in area that he has to work with in being an e-badass and all that shit.
It's really not as deep as everyone tries to make it. Other than the shit eatting holier than thou tone he used, Tasteless was pretty much right.
props on banning that kid again stupid people dont deserve a second chance the only problem ive ever seen with moderation is you're all too tolerant to stupid people thats why i think rekrul is a valuable asset to the modteam :O
more often than not mitsy doesnt deserve to be banned but its the "not" part that really gets ya. why let him slide where others shouldnt? i understand that some mods like him. okay, so let him slide on that principle. but on the same token he's been banned SO many times, he should be banned the second he makes a new name, not given a billion second chances. FS is obnoxious a lot. he definitely crossed a line, that was WAY too stupid, and not worth it. but personally i find his humour indispensible
My opinion: there's a good reason why this is the most boring, slowest-moving message board I've seen, despite the members all believing teamliquid.net to be some well-known and popular site.
*This thread is inspired by Stimy, and all of his manifestations. It is a discussion of moderation, and there are no reprucussions for posting your opinion in this thread.
I was under the impression that I could give my opinions on moderation as well as respond to those who accuse me in this thread with amnesty.
FS is obnoxious a lot. he definitely crossed a line, that was WAY too stupid, and not worth it. but personally i find his humour indispensible
so many people have said that and yet the only funny/worthwhile thing hes done is the paint threads and very rarely hitting with one of his one liners. he should be confined to paint threads and nothing else or something.
On February 18 2006 11:25 ManaBlue wrote: This is getting sad. Outside of all the bitching, the truth you're all meandering toward is that some of us like it here because we fit in well, are chummy with certain key posters, and fit the personality mould. That's it.
Stop trying to say that this place is about free expression, and pushing the boundaries of our thought and all that other BS Stimy tries to force feed you. Being a member here is like being in a click in some shitty high school. You get along with the group or you don't. Nothing more or less.
Boundary pushers always get burned at the stake eventually (and apparently in Stimy's case multiple times). No one should be surprised here. As for Steve, he was testing his boundaries, and now that he's been warned he knows the fenced in area that he has to work with in being an e-badass and all that shit.
It's really not as deep as everyone tries to make it. Other than the shit eatting holier than thou tone he used, Tasteless was pretty much right.
*This thread is inspired by Stimy, and all of his manifestations. It is a discussion of moderation, and there are no reprucussions for posting your opinion in this thread.
I was under the impression that I could give my opinions on moderation as well as respond to those who accuse me in this thread with amnesty.
Apparently that assumption was incorrect. Further more what was the point of that ban. If hasn't stoped you from posting, just made you create a new account? are we to assume that this somehow taught you a lesson and the quality of your post will improve? Infact isnt a temp ban a greater punishment as you can't post for x amount of time while now you could post imediatly afterwords.
What is the actual point of a ban if the poster can just start posting again...
It seems as if temp bans are actually more effective and should be used instead of ordinary bans, unless those bans are going to be ip bans aswell
The fact is, people don't like being considered worse than other people. Moderators and admins automatically feel like they're superior to other posters. And that can piss anybody off. You think: I'm smarter than this guy. In better shape. Have a hotter girlfriend. And am better looking. But here... he's better than you. It makes you want to meet one at a party to show just how much cooler and better you are at real life.
But that's how it is, and it can't be fixed.
--I can't brain today I have the dumb
(that's my new signature which I won't make a signature!)
On February 18 2006 14:23 jkillashark wrote: Let's all be friends and root for USA Hockey.
No seriously, people should be responsible for their own booties. If they like to flame the mods and get banned so be it.
I agree with bburn, what's the point of banning a user if they can just remake another account?
by that logic you need to kill every felon because if you don't he'll eventually have the possibility to commit a crime again. Banning is like putting up a sign: You're not wanted around here! And if people get too obnoxious Meat can IP ban them.
On February 18 2006 13:59 -_- wrote: The fact is, people don't like being considered worse than other people. Moderators and admins automatically feel like they're superior to other posters. And that can piss anybody off. You think: I'm smarter than this guy. In better shape. Have a hotter girlfriend. And am better looking. But here... he's better than you. It makes you want to meet one at a party to show just how much cooler and better you are at real life.
But that's how it is, and it can't be fixed.
--I can't brain today I have the dumb
(that's my new signature which I won't make a signature!)
You got it all backwards. Mods become mods because they are superior to other posters.
hMmmm system, if ur there, just change an acct, tell the one you like of your real acct and post under new name. It never hurts. People are dumb, they had some prejudice against you already, but you won't let them continue to hurt you if you change ur acct. ^^ Take my word.
On February 18 2006 13:59 -_- wrote: The fact is, people don't like being considered worse than other people. Moderators and admins automatically feel like they're superior to other posters. And that can piss anybody off. You think: I'm smarter than this guy. In better shape. Have a hotter girlfriend. And am better looking. But here... he's better than you. It makes you want to meet one at a party to show just how much cooler and better you are at real life.
But that's how it is, and it can't be fixed.
--I can't brain today I have the dumb
(that's my new signature which I won't make a signature!)
You got it all backwards. Mods become mods because they are superior to other posters.
No. I'd say most mods become mods because admins like them (because they're friends, because they artfully suck up, etc...). But that's besides the point.
I'm guessing you're saying that moderators become so because they contribute to the forum. But that doesn't make them superior. It means they contributed more on an internet forum. Nothing more. Nothing less.
Or does TL.net require moderators with phd's and doctorates, benches of 200+, model girlfriends, iq's of 130+, 0 run in's with the law (or moral superiority of some sort) and senior class presidency? Nope. So mods DEFINITELY don't become mods because they are superior.
I'm reluctant to believe that you mean what I interpret from your post (moderators are overall superior human beings compared to non-moderators), but if you are saying that, you are hopelessly wrong and have completely lost touch with the real world. This a brood war forum. One I really love, but it's just a bw forum.
On February 18 2006 16:48 HnR)Insane wrote: He probably means they're superior contributers to the forum, not that they are magically better at benching weights......
And that's fine, and what I suggested he meant.
What I mean is that it's sometimes frustrating when a non-moderator feels he's better than a moderator, but everyone treats the moderator better and he is more respected.
Now that's expected. And the only thing which can happen. After all, what can another member judge another member on besides his contribution to the forum. But that still doesn't make it less frustrating. And it's even worse when you feel you beat a moderator in an argument or whatever, but everyone says the moderator is right. And you interpret that as being because he's a moderator and you're not.
Like a new guy, what can he do. He's not a moderator, but his opinion and contributions might be greater than a moderator's, but nobody is going to say that. And if he gets in a confrontation with one, that's it. He's wrong, and the respected mod is right.
So basically it can be infuriating to be treated like less than someone, when you know you're more (at least in real life). A fact of life, but I think that's why alot of people lose their cool and get banned.
syst deserved to be banned. he was banned in the past, and uhjoo says it was with valid reason. syst says otherwise. ill have to believe uhjoo on this one he came back and posted some more, after being banned. that alone deserves a ban IMO. but no he was given a second chance. with that chance he came to this thread for the sole purpose of pissing all over uhjoo and saying "you should be stripped of your mod status you abusive...." i think everyone in TLnet would ban him. its just straight up disrespectful. to a mod none the less. so add in stupid. i found nothing intelligent in any of his posts. the very first thing he said in this thread was "uhjoo is a horrible moderator." yeah. real intelligent. especially when uhjoo did, apparently, what 80% of TLnet was waiting for moderation wise.
so again, the only problem i find with moderation is its leniancy at wrong times :|
On February 18 2006 14:23 jkillashark wrote: Let's all be friends and root for USA Hockey.
No seriously, people should be responsible for their own booties. If they like to flame the mods and get banned so be it.
I agree with bburn, what's the point of banning a user if they can just remake another account?
by that logic you need to kill every felon because if you don't he'll eventually have the possibility to commit a crime again. Banning is like putting up a sign: You're not wanted around here! And if people get too obnoxious Meat can IP ban them.
Then IP banning should be a last resort, but when is this last resort? After 1 temp ban? After 3? Or is it by mod discretion which I think it should be at.
But maybe Stimey lost his girlfriend or something and just needed to blow some steam, yeah?
I like Waxangel's banning policy, with a couple of exceptions, mostly in week long bans like steve got. The most annoying people in TL are not half as annoying as those I have to deal with in real life during most of the week. And mostly, any annoyance I feel here is self-inflicted. I didn't always view it this way, but I think it's my fault when I let something I read here bother me.
Stimey never bothered me in the slightest. I was aware he made some posts that people are justified in hating. Whenever I came across them myself, I never even finished reading them. This is probably what steve's friends were like with him. Steve did used to bother me (before my enlightened stoicism ). I only really noticed his stupid posts (another similarity with Stimey). I never saw any of his funny ones (or didn't think he was funny), only saw a bit of one of his apparently great MS Paint threads. But because I know other people like him, it is better for the forum if he stays, and him leaving doesn't make my life any better...
Noting the similarities of Stimey and Steve. People only noticing the good, others only noticing the bad, their very similar infractions... I don't know why Steve was a 2 week ban and Stimey permanent.
I remember at his first ban he eventually made his own forum. I didn't stick around to see what happened but they didn't look like they were going to last, but does anyone have that url?
Stimey won by having that Mani attack topic closed and getting banned again. He acted as a martyr to bring to light his qualms with Mani and the moderating of this site in general. If Mani would have addressed the points Stimey brought up instead of banning first and asking questions later (i.e. this topic) Stimey would have been humbled for once in his life.
Manifesto did not address a bunch of the things Stimey brought up about him. There were some very personal things, but that's life. Stimey had the guts to come straight at Mani with his opinion so Mani should have the guts to respond to everything instead of taking the easy route and banning him. Instead of addressing Stimey we are talking about him behind his back and it feels wrong.
On February 19 2006 00:06 HowitZer wrote: Stimey won by having that Mani attack topic closed and getting banned again. He acted as a martyr to bring to light his qualms with Mani and the moderating of this site in general. If Mani would have addressed the points Stimey brought up instead of banning first and asking questions later (i.e. this topic) Stimey would have been humbled for once in his life.
Manifesto did not address a bunch of the things Stimey brought up about him. There were some very personal things, but that's life. Stimey had the guts to come straight at Mani with his opinion so Mani should have the guts to respond to everything instead of taking the easy route and banning him. Instead of addressing Stimey we are talking about him behind his back and it feels wrong.
I didn't ban him.
Read my response in about his personal attacks in his thread.
This thread is simply about a moderation issue. The rest of his garbage I dealt with in my response at the end of his rant thread. Go read it and get back to me
I'm sorry I misunderstood. I think you handled the whole thing really well. It just feels strange at first to be having this conversation without Stimey in it because he started it. The way he started it is what deserves a ban though. I changed my mind!
On February 18 2006 21:07 Servolisk wrote: (...) Noting the similarities of Stimey and Steve. People only noticing the good, others only noticing the bad, their very similar infractions... I don't know why Steve was a 2 week ban and Stimey permanent. (...)
EPT
TL.net rules, and I'll never leave until you assholes force me out. Look at me being a big man. Fuck you all, I'm tough and shit...![[image loading]](http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/3403/umok0wa.jpg)
. In my time spent here i only seen like 30% of that mod list posting something interesting and new. Wait...make that 20%. Without the korean progaming coverage, this site would turn blue in 1 week top. The layout isn't attractive, the people are sometimes jerks, if we get lucky we'll get live reports, you don't have shortcuts or links to important stuff like W-Player FAQ and so on. Don't tell me that this site is moderated. It is, a little, but the lack of interest is abvious. Now, who is Stimy and what's his problem? I come here every day, actualy this is my first destination after i start my comp but i don't have a problem with the way manifesto expreses himself. Actually i don't know of any threads that have been closed by him. Maybe because i don't give a fuck about stupid threads so i don't read'em. I had a thread closed once or at least i think so. When i became sober again i remembered that i started somethin in the strategy forum but there wasn't anything so either i was dreaming or it got closed....but i understand. :D This site is still up only because of the wonderfull korean gaming scene.
