Hey! I only saw one game from ASL, it was long TvP Rush vs Wands and i thought then how this guy was able to play for yellow ranks tourney. I play terran and for me then he was like B terran (tvp is one of hardest mu in sc:bw and he havent problems with B- toss). Yesterday i saw one game of Bibiane on his stream and remind me that one game from asl, which i saw cause he played the same style like Rush (i mean caming in tvp: mass turrets at 2nd exp etc), but i ignored it. Today I was just curious who is Rush cause we goona be in the same tourney ASL2, so I went to iccup site and just checked rush[pain] . There is no any replays of him, he doeasnt play much, only few 2v2 games, he doeasnt play clan wars, cl whats strange cause he have a clan. So i checked his 2v2 games and what?? he played these games with Bibiane. Now i was pretty sure something is wrong so i dowloaded Rush's replays from ASL and Bibiane;s replays from ICCup sites and compared them.
Rush in ladder stage played mostly zerg and toss, in play off mosty terran. Bibiane also play off races (his main is T).
TvsP :
First i made basic check eapm and whats is most important % of redundacy apm (how much there is a spam in apm). % is verry constant for each player in each mu and differs slightly. If there was a bigger diffrence there is no need to continue analyzing replays. I checked long and short tvp:
next i checked in another program (BWHF Agent) calulacted eapm, which use diffrent algorithm for it. For many players there is diffrent % of redundacy trend in BWHF- they have much more or much less spam so if Rush will have much more and Bibiane will have much less spam or vice versa there is no need to continoue analyzing replays. From experience 80% player will have more spam in BWHF agent, but Bibian and Rush, not only have the same trend but also both have less spam in BWHF, its not common...
at this point they still can be diffrent gamers, but chance is verry small. In the next step i checked hotkeys and usage hotkeys in bwchart. Maybe little words at beginig. Hotkey usage is like fingerprints, there are unique for each player. Its just habit like i use mouse, not hk to siege tanks (who watch my stream know what i mean;)
ok here is screen from long pvt games:
Patern is the same!!! and trust me this is verry unique for each player. I markered characteristic points. Until 12 min under hk 3 is assigned command ceneter and is often used after that time there is break until he will select group of army under this key. He will do it when he have a army already assigned to hk 1 and hk 2. Under hk 4 he has factory assigned until there will by much more army. frequency for using 3 for cc and 4 for factory is the same.
Above anylze is only for tvp, checked for many replays. For TvZ also prooves that Rush = Bibian. For now im 99,99% sure its the same person, but... they also play toss and guess what? all is the same, even for diffrent race! For zerg i cant check, cause i dont have Bibian's replays. Intriguingly is that admins from ASL are close to Bibian, they defend Rush ability to play in ASL2, they banned me from tourney for sending pm about my doubts. Judge for yourself. Tank You
Poll: Do you think Rush[PaiN] = Bibiane[PaiN]?
Yes (75)
74%
No (26)
26%
101 total votes
Your vote: Do you think Rush[PaiN] = Bibiane[PaiN]?
Your conspiracy theory is actually really funny. Accusing Shimy of hoarding Bibiane due to a close friendship with the most lackluster proof I've ever seen, as the staff of ASL, including zimp (maybe you've heard of him?), could not identify them as the same person.
few random replays for tvp and also few for rest mu. I wouldnt do that if i didnt see stream of Bibiane, tvp play style is also unique, i saw hundred/ thousand tvp games... also i wanted to play in asl2 and i knew i would be banned for that, but i dont like "cheating" and thought i dont need to play in such a tourney... im pretty sure he had acquiescence and this is sad.
On August 30 2012 03:57 mca64[KDV] wrote: few random replays for tvp and also few for rest mu. I wouldnt do that if i didnt see stream of Bibiane, tvp play style is also unique, i saw hundred/ thousand tvp games... also i wanted to play in asl2 and i knew i would be banned for that, but i dont like "cheating" and thought i dont need to play in such a tourney... im pretty sure he had acquiescence and this is sad.
You were actually banned after 2 warnings, with the last physically saying "You will be banned for the next offense." I'd say you had plenty knowledge of your incoming ban prior to any ridiculous theory you conjured up with no scientific evidence.
On August 30 2012 03:57 Game wrote: Your conspiracy theory is actually really funny. Accusing Shimy of hoarding Bibiane due to a close friendship with the most lackluster proof I've ever seen, as the staff of ASL, including zimp (maybe you've heard of him?), could not identify them as the same person.
so wait for zimp answer in this topic as admins from asl said "he is "expert" from replays checkin and nothin found". Where is Romad?
On August 30 2012 03:57 Game wrote: Your conspiracy theory is actually really funny. Accusing Shimy of hoarding Bibiane due to a close friendship with the most lackluster proof I've ever seen, as the staff of ASL, including zimp (maybe you've heard of him?), could not identify them as the same person.
so wait for zimp answer in this topic as admins from asl said "he is "expert" from replays checkin and nothin found". Where is Romad?
Are you implying that zimp is not qualified to analyze hotkeys of players, and that only Romad is?
On August 30 2012 03:57 Game wrote: Your conspiracy theory is actually really funny. Accusing Shimy of hoarding Bibiane due to a close friendship with the most lackluster proof I've ever seen, as the staff of ASL, including zimp (maybe you've heard of him?), could not identify them as the same person.
so wait for zimp answer in this topic as admins from asl said "he is "expert" from replays checkin and nothin found". Where is Romad?
Are you implying that zimp is not qualified to analyze hotkeys of players, and that only Romad is?
a lot of people use factory at 4 but will later use it as army if they need (including flash, eh) however, those APM numbers are the exact same, and considering spam and % are pretty damning this isn't a case of hotkey analysis, but rather the APM giving it away
On August 30 2012 04:16 Bill Murray wrote: a lot of people use factory at 4 but will later use it as army if they need (including flash, eh) however, those APM numbers are the exact same, and considering spam and % are pretty damning this isn't a case of hotkey analysis, but rather the APM giving it away
yes i know, its just one of many same things.... whats the probability that they both have the same everything? even with diffrent races... close to zero... Please watch replays of bibiane and rush games...
On August 30 2012 04:12 mca64[KDV] wrote: sorry game, but i posted proofs and you just empty words. If You dont agreed please organzie one game of them...
I did. When Shimy was only 99.9% sure given zimp and other counter abuse people's proof, they called me in to assist them. I played RuSh many times to have fresh, honest hotkeys vs a better than C+/B- player. He is absolutely not Bibiane. There's my proof, you took a couple screenshots of BWChart and stated some theory with empty words of bias and illegatimacy.
On August 30 2012 04:16 Bill Murray wrote: a lot of people use factory at 4 but will later use it as army if they need (including flash, eh) however, those APM numbers are the exact same, and considering spam and % are pretty damning this isn't a case of hotkey analysis, but rather the APM giving it away
yes i know, its just one of many same things.... whats the probability that they both have the same everything? even with diffrent races... close to zero... Please watch replays of bibiane and rush games...
Let's see, RuSh, Bibiane, and Bizzy live within 5 miles of each other, train with each other in real life, and often play at each others houses. They share IDs for training purposes as well. I'd be willing to say that if I played the same race with 2 superior players at their houses, with them giving me tips and advice on how to improve/play, I'd look a hell of a lot like them regarding apm too. I think you are genuinely mistaking invaluable resources with abuse.
WIth that, I'm done posting in this thread for now. There is no merit in your theory, and no value in your words. This is just a blind accusation with adolescent quality proof.
Edit: It's my personal opinion that you should not only be banned from YSL, ASL, but TL for such useless posts that serve to defame an organization and players who train hard every single day to improve simply for your own vendetta.
On August 30 2012 04:16 Bill Murray wrote: a lot of people use factory at 4 but will later use it as army if they need (including flash, eh) however, those APM numbers are the exact same, and considering spam and % are pretty damning this isn't a case of hotkey analysis, but rather the APM giving it away
yes i know, its just one of many same things.... whats the probability that they both have the same everything? even with diffrent races... close to zero... Please watch replays of bibiane and rush games...
Let's see, RuSh, Bibiane, and Bizzy live within 5 miles of each other, train with each other in real life, and often play at each others houses. They share IDs for training purposes as well. I'd be willing to say that if I played the same race with 2 superior players at their houses, with them giving me tips and advice on how to improve/play, I'd look a hell of a lot like them regarding apm too. I think you are genuinely mistaking invaluable resources with abuse.
can we get a picture of those 3 guys ? at the same time and practicing . and also is very strange bibiane and bizzy both back stream at the same time. is cuz they have clan house ? . lol this is more interesting
i like how rush has his factory hotkeyed to 456 but only spams 45 for like a minute and never uses 56 after that again also in both replays the hotkey 3 for the cc is never used again at ~12minutes despite not being used for something else
i added some notable things to the picture that are very unusual for a player to use other than smurfing or similarities
On August 30 2012 04:16 Bill Murray wrote: a lot of people use factory at 4 but will later use it as army if they need (including flash, eh) however, those APM numbers are the exact same, and considering spam and % are pretty damning this isn't a case of hotkey analysis, but rather the APM giving it away
yes i know, its just one of many same things.... whats the probability that they both have the same everything? even with diffrent races... close to zero... Please watch replays of bibiane and rush games...
Let's see, RuSh, Bibiane, and Bizzy live within 5 miles of each other, train with each other in real life, and often play at each others houses. They share IDs for training purposes as well. I'd be willing to say that if I played the same race with 2 superior players at their houses, with them giving me tips and advice on how to improve/play, I'd look a hell of a lot like them regarding apm too. I think you are genuinely mistaking invaluable resources with abuse.
problem is that you dont understand that apm/eapm hk usage etc is like finger prints. Its not possible that two player has the same everything. Please post a replay of them playin together and you will see that i have right
While I don't agree with your conclusion, I can at least commend you for having some kind of evidence, and creating a coherent argument to back up your claim.
On August 30 2012 04:31 hacklebeast wrote: While I don't agree with your conclusion, I can at least commend you for having some kind of evidence, and creating a coherent argument to back up your claim.
actually the evidence is clear . maybe u dont see this cuz u also cant see minimap in ur cast. but is pretty clear ,
I have one thing to say and one thing only... Are people seriously considering incriminating two of the largest organizers in foreign Brood War, the biggest organizer in amateur brood war and the most consistent hot key analyst in the scene over the words of a player who's post history includes 90% posts which are about how things are unfair and the world of tournaments is out to get him?
If so, I'm at a lack of words, but I don't think anyone is seriously buying into your theory.
is it really that hard to get a replay of them playing each other if they are so close? if there is such a replay with somewhat similiar apm/hotkeys there will be no doubt that they are not the same person :o
my pms with doty before i sent you pm, ater you banned me:
Original Message From mca64[KDV]: would You play few pvt vs me (me T) @ Jade? Need some good toss to practice before ysl match. Let me know, if yes please post time where you can play
"... !"
oo nice i will stick probally to ysl only cause in asl2 admins covered bibiane playin for rush and i dont like it!! i have proovs that rush = bibiane.... and will make a topic within few days"
so if you wouldnt me banned i rather still dont wanna play in asl2
On August 30 2012 04:37 Eywa- wrote: I have one thing to say and one thing only... Are people seriously considering incriminating two of the largest organizers in foreign Brood War, the biggest organizer in amateur brood war and the most consistent hot key analyst in the scene over the words of a player who's post history includes 90% posts which are about how things are unfair and the world of tournaments is out to get him?
If so, I'm at a lack of words, but I don't think anyone is seriously buying into your theory.
im sorry but sometimes the better also fail . no ? and unless bibiane and rush[pain] play in two days max one week (live event) and check every again.there is not way he cant prove he is not
if scan manage to go to far in isl2 . why he cant ;;
On August 30 2012 04:37 Eywa- wrote: I have one thing to say and one thing only... Are people seriously considering incriminating two of the largest organizers in foreign Brood War, the biggest organizer in amateur brood war and the most consistent hot key analyst in the scene over the words of a player who's post history includes 90% posts which are about how things are unfair and the world of tournaments is out to get him?
If so, I'm at a lack of words, but I don't think anyone is seriously buying into your theory.
im sorry but sometimes the better also fail . no ? and unless bibiane and rush[pain] play in two days max one week (live event) and check every again.there is not way he cant prove he is not
if scan manage to go to far in isl2 . why he cant ;;
Scan got caught... By zimp no less... Who went through about 50 replays if not more for the Bibiane/RuSh case on 4-5 different occasions when I asked him to... Every time was the same answer.
Then one guy who comes up and posts stuff about 1 replay somehow overwrites all of zimp's work? Not sure how this thread isn't closed.
More games u play more u can change the hotkeys but there is always some patterns that are exact.and they usually come when the rival made u use ur max. thats why scan made the big fail.cuz sas.draw made him use his max and show who really he is. IM NOT SAYING ZIMP IS SOME NOOB (ACTUALLY HE IS THE SHERLOCK HOLMES) but u know so many reps so many players.
BTW i just see u guys hate that guy and not want listen his words. im sorry mca . good luck in ysl
I guess there is no room for misinterpretation in my answer this time. Ignore this sentence if you're not dutch *cough*
The issue is, that, according to Game, the two (or three) are living close together, so, in my eyes, there is the potential that there could be incidents where one player smurfed for the other. When and where this happened, I don't know, I'm not really interest in the league/players (but how it works, the 'how to catch a smurf thing'), nor did mca state it somewhere here. Then again the "we had them play argument" doesn't matter, cause they could only be "cheating" in important games.
Also: there are no replays, only screens. It might help to have them, actually, along with all the screens/data that has been collected to get an idea. Game is right here: if they're clean and the better player helps the rookie, their hotkeys and their patterns are quite likely very similar.
However, things like the eapm/apm ratio/difference you mentioned seem more than fishy. Did you consider to maybe do further statistics on them? Variance, significance and so on? Should be doable, though not too sure if it would actually proof something beyond reasonable doubt. I'm not too sure if they would mean too much, but worth a shot.
Sad topic, you prolly have to live with the decision - in dubio pro reo makes sense after all, even if it sucks from your perspective.
Just a sidenote, not meant offensive - this topic was created after he contacted the orga, right? Dunno if there was a fuckup in understanding a non-native English speaker or not, but he at least seems to have proof (even if it's only his judgement here). -> I don't see his thread as "this" offending / having a grudge
On August 30 2012 04:37 Eywa- wrote: I have one thing to say and one thing only... Are people seriously considering incriminating two of the largest organizers in foreign Brood War, the biggest organizer in amateur brood war and the most consistent hot key analyst in the scene over the words of a player who's post history includes 90% posts which are about how things are unfair and the world of tournaments is out to get him?
If so, I'm at a lack of words, but I don't think anyone is seriously buying into your theory.
the problem is, this guy's posts come with some screenshots and proof. whereas game's posts are just...posts. i'm not saying i'm sold (honestly i have nfi how to eyeball how similar replays are and shit) but you haven't provided a convincing argument here
I guess there is no room for misinterpretation in my answer this time. Ignore this sentence if you're not dutch *cough*
The issue is, that, according to Game, the two (or three) are living close together, so, in my eyes, there is the potential that there could be incidents where one player smurfed for the other. When and where this happened, I don't know, I'm not really interest in the league/players (but how it works, the 'how to catch a smurf thing'), nor did mca state it somewhere here. Then again the "we had them play argument" doesn't matter, cause they could only be "cheating" in important games.
Also: there are no replays, only screens. It might help to have them, actually, along with all the screens/data that has been collected to get an idea. Game is right here: if they're clean and the better player helps the rookie, their hotkeys and their patterns are quite likely very similar.
However, things like the eapm/apm ratio/difference you mentioned seem more than fishy. Did you consider to maybe do further statistics on them? Variance, significance and so on? Should be doable, though not too sure if it would actually proof something beyond reasonable doubt. I'm not too sure if they would mean too much, but worth a shot.
Sad topic, you prolly have to live with the decision - in dubio pro reo makes sense after all, even if it sucks from your perspective.
Just a sidenote, not meant offensive - this topic was created after he contacted the orga, right? Dunno if there was a fuckup in understanding a non-native English speaker or not, but he at least seems to have proof (even if it's only his judgement here).
i dont have a time to make more screenshots, writing more analyze. If if wasnt for sure i wouldnt made this topic... i checked many reps, watched many games...
Eywa you write like tl.net would be the only bw site there, there are othere places where players (mb not B/B+ ) are active.
And what about zimp, from what I know he's really good at what he's doing, but dose it mean that he cant be wrong ? Never ever?
Imho your biggest mistake was the answer to mca ' bibane is not rush and stop spaming about it'. From what I saw you didnt post any contrevidence, only words ' bibane didnt play for rush PERIOD' and with out any evidence.
Now I dont see any other option then have them play with each other or check their autorep.
On August 30 2012 05:16 Mazur wrote: Eywa you write like tl.net would be the only bw site there, there are othere places where players (mb not B/B+ ) are active.
And what about zimp, from what I know he's really good at what he's doing, but dose it mean that he cant be wrong ? Never ever?
Imho your biggest mistake was the answer to mca ' bibane is not rush and stop spaming about it'. From what I saw you didnt post any contrevidence, only words ' bibane didnt play for rush PERIOD' and with out any evidence.
Now I dont see any other option then have them play with each other or check their autorep.
Not gonna quote Kiante's post, but it's virtually saying the same thing, except with my name instead of Eywa's. Gecko's first post really defines this thread. He analyzed 2 replays. There is no need for the ASL organization to dig up logs, replays, and other materials and then create screenshots revolving around the various replays which, by the way, have them having no similar apm in the same matchups. That's a lot of work for a very poor claim.
Edit: To point out the other major flaw here, he not only analyzed a couple of replays, but then followed it up by saying that he's watched and analyzed -in private- (exactly what I am saying ASL did) a large number of replays, yet specifically targetted limited replays where they look alike. This is clearly an infallible coincidence.
On August 30 2012 05:25 Mazur wrote: For the transparency of the tour they should do it. Preper an analyze together with reps to show they are right and mca is wrong.
i think with the type of answer that the organizers give in the forum is more than clear they dont care about mca. so this will be ignored
On August 30 2012 05:25 Mazur wrote: For the transparency of the tour they should do it. Preper an analyze together with reps to show they are right and mca is wrong.
Obviously this is just my opinion, but I don't think it's necessary at all. If a claim as weak as this was taken to court in a first world country it would be automatically dismissed. I'd like to think that the BW community is first world. However, if this claim actually had enough sustenance to warrant painstaking efforts by the organization, I'd be willing to bet my entire life's savings that it would happen.
Edit: For my real life comparison, this would be a photoshopped, video edited YouTube 9/11 conspiracy video regarding smoke or something.
On August 30 2012 05:25 Mazur wrote: For the transparency of the tour they should do it. Preper an analyze together with reps to show they are right and mca is wrong.
Obviously this is just my opinion, but I don't think it's necessary at all. If a claim as weak as this was taken to court in a first world country it would be automatically dismissed. I'd like to think that the BW community is first world. However, if this claim actually had enough sustenance to warrant painstaking efforts by the organization, I'd be willing to bet my entire life's savings that it would happen.
Edit: For my real life comparison, this would be a photoshopped, video edited YouTube 9/11 conspiracy video regarding smoke or something.
Lol. this isn't court. it's a forum. you have a dude with some evidence and you're trying to refute it by saying 'well i went and looked at shit earlier'
why bother refuting if you dont care enough to show us why you're refuting.
The thing i don't get here is that 1 person is defending 2 persons? Why don't RuSh and Bibiane just prove that they didn't cheat and just move on? Someone said that let the 2 players play vs each other and see? If someone is going so far that he makes a thread and trying to say that someone has cheated. The ones who is the victims here should just prove him wrong. It's quite easy for them if they didn't cheat at all to do that.
On August 30 2012 05:25 Mazur wrote: For the transparency of the tour they should do it. Preper an analyze together with reps to show they are right and mca is wrong.
Obviously this is just my opinion, but I don't think it's necessary at all. If a claim as weak as this was taken to court in a first world country it would be automatically dismissed. I'd like to think that the BW community is first world. However, if this claim actually had enough sustenance to warrant painstaking efforts by the organization, I'd be willing to bet my entire life's savings that it would happen.
Edit: For my real life comparison, this would be a photoshopped, video edited YouTube 9/11 conspiracy video regarding smoke or something.
Lol. this isn't court. it's a forum. you have a dude with some evidence and you're trying to refute it by saying 'well i went and looked at shit earlier'
why bother refuting if you dont care enough to show us why you're refuting.
In that case, I'm done. I was defending it because of the idiotic nature of the post, if you're actually concerned.
On August 30 2012 05:21 Game wrote: Gecko's first post really defines this thread. He analyzed 2 replays.
I didn't. He said he downloaded more, and I was interested in how he came to his conclusion, method wise. If he actually admitted to have only two replays, I wouldn't bother to read on.
On August 30 2012 05:25 Mazur wrote: For the transparency of the tour they should do it. Preper an analyze together with reps to show they are right and mca is wrong.
Obviously this is just my opinion, but I don't think it's necessary at all. If a claim as weak as this was taken to court in a first world country it would be automatically dismissed. I'd like to think that the BW community is first world. However, if this claim actually had enough sustenance to warrant painstaking efforts by the organization, I'd be willing to bet my entire life's savings that it would happen.
Edit: For my real life comparison, this would be a photoshopped, video edited YouTube 9/11 conspiracy video regarding smoke or something.
Lol. this isn't court. it's a forum. you have a dude with some evidence and you're trying to refute it by saying 'well i went and looked at shit earlier'
why bother refuting if you dont care enough to show us why you're refuting.
In that case, I'm done. I was defending it because of the idiotic nature of the post, if you're actually concerned.
lol, there was absolutely nothing idiotic about mca64's posts, I am actually amazed at his attention to detail with the analyzation of these replays, anyone who has looked over replays constantly in BWChart, BWHF, and other replays analyzers, would understand that he is correct, the patterns are absolutely like finger prints, and for them to be practically exactly the same...the possibility of that happening is bassically a million to one, unless they are of course just sharing ID's and that is one of the other playing on both accounts. But like others have said, the 2 players just need to play each other, then check hotkeys, or other various methods of proofs. I just don't really understand why Eywa and Game are so hellbent on getting this thread closed, I feel like there is something being hidden here to be honest.
Maybe you are right game, it does seem like a conspiracy.
And i've got some things I would like to write more: First, whats Rushes aka? There are us less and less each year and I really dont recall that nick so where did he play before, and I would like some reps too check them. Next The admins should show their analyze of bibane and rushes reps and that would be evrything. The only thing I saw here is "LOL im Eywa, I say that bibiane didnt play for rush and some other ppl will say I write the truth" Just support your statement with some reps and similar stuff too mca and there wont be a problem. Becouse acting like this is only showing that you are not serius and you lie about wanting to get more ppl to play bw and ppl to play more bw.
why do they mind it all so much if they KNOW its not bibane. it is mca doing all the work, not the asl so why would they mind it? i don't see any harm to let him investigate and do hes work when it cost no rescources on the asl side?
game said that he only used like 4 for the analizes, althou that might be true, how many of those games is he forced to use hes normal replays??? since if 90% of them are fake anyway why bother even counting them and getting them into the analize?
all thou apm can be quite fishy, i think the best way is to look at fpv is thats possable (if seen something like bwtv orsomething that could do that) and there are tons of programs that you can see a list in which order the actions where performed, so that might be usefull to use aswell.
at the begging of game rush hotkey CC: 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0, and bibiane not, and for rax rush uses. 4,5,6, bibiane 4 only ... there ar some more, but those 2 ar obv ;;
On August 30 2012 05:52 dsaqwe. wrote: at the begging of game rush hotkey CC: 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0, and bibiane not, and for rax rush uses. 4,5,6, bibiane 4 only ... there ar some more, but those 2 ar obv ;;
very smart change for smurfing, you shouldnt also smurfing with such changed hotkyes
On August 30 2012 05:52 dsaqwe. wrote: at the begging of game rush hotkey CC: 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0, and bibiane not, and for rax rush uses. 4,5,6, bibiane 4 only ... there ar some more, but those 2 ar obv ;;
On August 30 2012 04:26 Game wrote: WIth that, I'm done posting in this thread for now. There is no merit in your theory, and no value in your words. This is just a blind accusation with adolescent quality proof.
Edit: It's my personal opinion that you should not only be banned from YSL, ASL, but TL for such useless posts that serve to defame an organization and players who train hard every single day to improve simply for your own vendetta.
Don't make this into something that it isn't. Banning him is pointless. I don't think he is doing this for his of vendetta. Give US solid proof and you won't only shut him down. People will also be dettered from such accusations in the future, but if you just attack his claims like this it only makes you look guilty soo give us solid proof or maybe a Rush vs Bibiane game and you are done with this and many future accusations!
On August 30 2012 04:37 Eywa- wrote: I have one thing to say and one thing only... Are people seriously considering incriminating two of the largest organizers in foreign Brood War, the biggest organizer in amateur brood war and the most consistent hot key analyst in the scene over the words of a player who's post history includes 90% posts which are about how things are unfair and the world of tournaments is out to get him?
If so, I'm at a lack of words, but I don't think anyone is seriously buying into your theory.
As much as I love what you guys are doing for the scene and I hope you do it in the future at least provide significant evidence instead of just denying it.
On August 30 2012 06:02 ProLeagueFan wrote: no there not same ppl, i know them irl and there 2 diff ppl., bibiane is also a year older ...
So by just finding an end to this. Let Rush play against the other guy and see if its correct or not? If the both actually uses almost the same hotkeys like they do in these replays and just solve the problem instead of discussing this 100+ pages more.
On August 30 2012 05:25 Mazur wrote: For the transparency of the tour they should do it. Preper an analyze together with reps to show they are right and mca is wrong.
Obviously this is just my opinion, but I don't think it's necessary at all. If a claim as weak as this was taken to court in a first world country it would be automatically dismissed. I'd like to think that the BW community is first world. However, if this claim actually had enough sustenance to warrant painstaking efforts by the organization, I'd be willing to bet my entire life's savings that it would happen.
Edit: For my real life comparison, this would be a photoshopped, video edited YouTube 9/11 conspiracy video regarding smoke or something.
You're wrong about one thing... This one woman sued an RV company for not telling here that cruise control = auto-pilot and she won the law suite.
On August 30 2012 04:40 mca64[KDV] wrote: my pms with doty before i sent you pm, ater you banned me:
Original Message From mca64[KDV]: would You play few pvt vs me (me T) @ Jade? Need some good toss to practice before ysl match. Let me know, if yes please post time where you can play
"... !"
oo nice i will stick probally to ysl only cause in asl2 admins covered bibiane playin for rush and i dont like it!! i have proovs that rush = bibiane.... and will make a topic within few days"
so if you wouldnt me banned i rather still dont wanna play in asl2
I don't like how you just assume that they know Rush=Bibiane and they aren't doing anything. Don't be a conspiricist.
all replays i found of bibiane on iccup, and the rush replays from asl
the rush ladder stage replays are pretty much useless because offrace, and the bibiane replays are only terran except a 5minute pvt
that leaves us only with tvp to compare hotkeys, but most of the times it yields the same results as mca64 stated except some marine medic games where he needed his barracks longer
Huh, for all the people who are saying that KDV guy put more work into his post than myself and/or Game has, you're probably right. The OP itself though is just a bunch of screenshots, there's no analysis, there's nothing of value... He basically says, hey look, I took a picture of Bibiane's APM and eAPM LOOK something on the chart is nearly the same, THEY ARE THE SAME PLAYER!
What your so called analysis doesn't take into account is that RuSh has higher average APM in the short game but lower average APM in the long game, with that being said... RuSh obviously spams a lot more in the early game than Bibiane does.
Also, the value you circled in both situations is relatively the same value for every player in the screen shot, especially the long game... Are you sure that indicates anything at all...
Let's move on to your next pretty little graphic... The graphic isn't explained at all and you circled to drastically different graphs and write LOOK... Look at what? Am I supposed to see anything that matches?
And even the little bit of analysis which you do provide... 80% of players? Where does this statistic come from? I didn't know my replays had been tested in a survey... Maybe I should just take your word for it?
At this point you've pointed out a similar attribute between 4+ players and you've pointed out another graph that just about no one understands, but they look fairly distinct. Somehow, it's nearly a guarantee that they're the same player. So let's take your word for it (because what else do we have?)...
Time to look at this next graph... Bibiane's timings are illustrated, RuSh's are not... I'm not sure if this is at your convenience that it wouldn't look good or what... But that's pretty sketchy. (factory and cc)
Furthermore, they use the same hot keys... RuSh learned 1v1 from Bibiane. Yet, even though they use the same hotkeys, they are very distinct. I don't know if you noticed, but what we see here resonates with what I said in my first argument, RuSh spams more. notice the HUGE amount more 3s? Perhaps that slipped your attention.
Moving on... How long does RuSh go before using hotkey 3 again? Not long... Bibiane seems like a lifetime... Must be the same player. I'm convinced.
If you're not already convinced that RuSh and Bibiane are the same player, than look at the last bunch of hotkeys 6+, Bibiane doesn't start to use them until the 12-13 minute mark whereas RuSh starts using them around 8... I'm guessing they have the same purpose, but Bibiane is just a very slow player and doesn't know what the fuck he's doing for those 4 minutes he just spams his CC and shit. Clearly, I'm very convinced by your fancy graphics with no analysis.
Now, to conclude on how strong your argument is and how well it demonstrates your situation, I'd like to say... I can definitely see the pattern (Oh wait... There's only one replay used... Or maybe it's a mash up of several different replays upon convenience... Hell if I know, but What I do know is there are not multiple examples, thus no pattern).
So, I'm no expert, but with this post I hope to have convinced you guys of KDV's point of view that Bibiane is indeed RuSh and RuSh is indeed Bibiane. They just have different triggers and timings which prompt them to do stuff.
Thanks for reading and thanks for uploading the SS, I would have been too lazy to do so on my own. I'm not even sure if they're legitimate, but they'll have to make do.
Eywa: If you're not already convinced that RuSh and Bibiane are the same player, than look at the last bunch of hotkeys 6+, Bibiane doesn't start to use them until the 12-13 minute mark whereas RuSh starts using them around 8... I'm guessing they have the same purpose, but Bibiane is just a very slow player and doesn't know what the fuck he's doing for those 4 minutes he just spams his CC and shit. Clearly, I'm very convinced by your fancy graphics with no analysis.
The fact that it happens at different times could be attributed to different builds/different builds of opponents.
Find a replay where they are doing the same build and then add some fancy graphics and I'll be convinced that they are not the same person
On August 30 2012 06:42 thezanursic wrote: Eywa: If you're not already convinced that RuSh and Bibiane are the same player, than look at the last bunch of hotkeys 6+, Bibiane doesn't start to use them until the 12-13 minute mark whereas RuSh starts using them around 8... I'm guessing they have the same purpose, but Bibiane is just a very slow player and doesn't know what the fuck he's doing for those 4 minutes he just spams his CC and shit. Clearly, I'm very convinced by your fancy graphics with no analysis.
The fact that it happens at different times could be attributed to different builds/different builds of opponents.
Find a replay where they are doing the same build and then add some fancy graphics and I'll be convinced that they are not the same person
So basically, you're saying that his screen shots prove nothing and show nothing of value, yet I have to dig up replays and provide screen shots? Funny man.
Funny world we live in, guilty until proven innocent.
On August 30 2012 06:42 thezanursic wrote: Eywa: If you're not already convinced that RuSh and Bibiane are the same player, than look at the last bunch of hotkeys 6+, Bibiane doesn't start to use them until the 12-13 minute mark whereas RuSh starts using them around 8... I'm guessing they have the same purpose, but Bibiane is just a very slow player and doesn't know what the fuck he's doing for those 4 minutes he just spams his CC and shit. Clearly, I'm very convinced by your fancy graphics with no analysis.
The fact that it happens at different times could be attributed to different builds/different builds of opponents.
Find a replay where they are doing the same build and then add some fancy graphics and I'll be convinced that they are not the same person
So basically, you're saying that his screen shots prove nothing and show nothing of value, yet I have to dig up replays and provide screen shots? Funny man.
Funny world we live in, guilty until proven innocent.
I don't want to really take a part of this but why are you defending him or them so much? If you are 100% positive that they are not cheating why don't u just make them play each other? What's the big issue here really? It's so simple to solve. I want this to get solved so the tournament can get played
I'm not saying that they are cheating or not but the hotkeys seems fishy which is NOT 100% a fact that they are. BUT since it made so many people interested/curious and maybe "IF" its the truth that they are why isn't it worth looking into? JUST make them play each other it's not harder... It really doesn't help to argue in a thread like this with just words really. I understand you Eywa and Game also.
On August 30 2012 06:42 thezanursic wrote: Eywa: If you're not already convinced that RuSh and Bibiane are the same player, than look at the last bunch of hotkeys 6+, Bibiane doesn't start to use them until the 12-13 minute mark whereas RuSh starts using them around 8... I'm guessing they have the same purpose, but Bibiane is just a very slow player and doesn't know what the fuck he's doing for those 4 minutes he just spams his CC and shit. Clearly, I'm very convinced by your fancy graphics with no analysis.
The fact that it happens at different times could be attributed to different builds/different builds of opponents.
Find a replay where they are doing the same build and then add some fancy graphics and I'll be convinced that they are not the same person
So basically, you're saying that his screen shots prove nothing and show nothing of value, yet I have to dig up replays and provide screen shots? Funny man.
Funny world we live in, guilty until proven innocent.
I don't want to really take a part of this but why are you defending him or them so much? If you are 100% positive that they are not cheating why don't u just make them play each other? What's the big issue here really? It's so simple to solve. I want this to get solved so the tournament can get played
I'm not saying that they are cheating or not but the hotkeys seems fishy which is NOT 100% a fact that they are. BUT since it made so many people interested/curious and maybe "IF" its the truth that they are why isn't it worth looking into? JUST make them play each other it's not harder... It really doesn't help to argue in a thread like this with just words really. I understand you Eywa and Game also.
You don't seem to realise that unsupported accusations hurt everyone in the scene even if it's not instantly visible. Also, as described before them playing each other doesn't solve anything because there's a 100% chance that two people are there... So they can play each other................................ Doesn't solve potential tournament cheating....
And, that's like saying why is it not worth looking into that Bakuryu isn't in fact Kolll or that Infernal isn't in fact dOTY or that SouthPark is TrutaCz... It just isn't because we know and/or have already looked into it. Trust me, whatever this goon did in terms of research... Far more was done to tell if it was Bibiane or not during ASL.
On August 30 2012 06:42 thezanursic wrote: Eywa: If you're not already convinced that RuSh and Bibiane are the same player, than look at the last bunch of hotkeys 6+, Bibiane doesn't start to use them until the 12-13 minute mark whereas RuSh starts using them around 8... I'm guessing they have the same purpose, but Bibiane is just a very slow player and doesn't know what the fuck he's doing for those 4 minutes he just spams his CC and shit. Clearly, I'm very convinced by your fancy graphics with no analysis.
The fact that it happens at different times could be attributed to different builds/different builds of opponents.
Find a replay where they are doing the same build and then add some fancy graphics and I'll be convinced that they are not the same person
So basically, you're saying that his screen shots prove nothing and show nothing of value, yet I have to dig up replays and provide screen shots? Funny man.
Funny world we live in, guilty until proven innocent.
I don't want to really take a part of this but why are you defending him or them so much? If you are 100% positive that they are not cheating why don't u just make them play each other? What's the big issue here really? It's so simple to solve. I want this to get solved so the tournament can get played
I'm not saying that they are cheating or not but the hotkeys seems fishy which is NOT 100% a fact that they are. BUT since it made so many people interested/curious and maybe "IF" its the truth that they are why isn't it worth looking into? JUST make them play each other it's not harder... It really doesn't help to argue in a thread like this with just words really. I understand you Eywa and Game also.
You don't seem to realise that unsupported accusations hurt everyone in the scene even if it's not instantly visible. Also, as described before them playing each other doesn't solve anything because there's a 100% chance that two people are there... So they can play each other................................ Doesn't solve potential tournament cheating....
Of course i understand that it hurts everyone. But i assume that if someone is trying to confirm that someone is cheating here and making a thread about it publicly it should be taken care of in a way that helps everyone right? Like if i was going to call someone a cheater/hacker or whatever I know that i would get a lot more evidence than this OP did i do agree on that. But i don't think someone is that stupid making a thread this big for the fun of it, that's just really stupid and not good at all.
Well how can we solve this easy and simple without any further 100+ pages discussion? So everyone is happy.
edit: so you have looked into it? that Rush isn't in fact that other guy? Provide us with the evidence u guys got then? And just solve this so the OP can't just spit out accusations
I live close to bibi and rush but I haven't met them in real life
But yes, bibi and rush are friends and they go to same school
so? if that's true that only says they are both real, it doesn't stop them to play in the others one account.
From my point of view the thing seems fishy, maybe they are not the same person, but Game and Eywa- arguing about it asking to close the thread make the whole thing look more fishy
Solomon, Messi, has appeared. I will justify this thread with correct respond. Let Bibiane and Rush to show their faces on stream, and see them play. Then, analyze replay with program that used. The court is over.
I live close to bibi and rush but I haven't met them in real life
But yes, bibi and rush are friends and they go to same school
so? if that's true that only says they are both real, it doesn't stop them to play in the others one account.
From my point of view the thing seems fishy, maybe they are not the same person, but Game and Eywa- arguing about it asking to close the thread make the whole thing look more fishy
I live close to bibi and rush but I haven't met them in real life
But yes, bibi and rush are friends and they go to same school
so? if that's true that only says they are both real, it doesn't stop them to play in the others one account.
From my point of view the thing seems fishy, maybe they are not the same person, but Game and Eywa- arguing about it asking to close the thread make the whole thing look more fishy
On August 30 2012 06:42 thezanursic wrote: Eywa: If you're not already convinced that RuSh and Bibiane are the same player, than look at the last bunch of hotkeys 6+, Bibiane doesn't start to use them until the 12-13 minute mark whereas RuSh starts using them around 8... I'm guessing they have the same purpose, but Bibiane is just a very slow player and doesn't know what the fuck he's doing for those 4 minutes he just spams his CC and shit. Clearly, I'm very convinced by your fancy graphics with no analysis.
The fact that it happens at different times could be attributed to different builds/different builds of opponents.
Find a replay where they are doing the same build and then add some fancy graphics and I'll be convinced that they are not the same person
So basically, you're saying that his screen shots prove nothing and show nothing of value, yet I have to dig up replays and provide screen shots? Funny man.
Funny world we live in, guilty until proven innocent.
I don't want to really take a part of this but why are you defending him or them so much? If you are 100% positive that they are not cheating why don't u just make them play each other? What's the big issue here really? It's so simple to solve. I want this to get solved so the tournament can get played
I'm not saying that they are cheating or not but the hotkeys seems fishy which is NOT 100% a fact that they are. BUT since it made so many people interested/curious and maybe "IF" its the truth that they are why isn't it worth looking into? JUST make them play each other it's not harder... It really doesn't help to argue in a thread like this with just words really. I understand you Eywa and Game also.
You don't seem to realise that unsupported accusations hurt everyone in the scene even if it's not instantly visible. Also, as described before them playing each other doesn't solve anything because there's a 100% chance that two people are there... So they can play each other................................ Doesn't solve potential tournament cheating....
Of course i understand that it hurts everyone. But i assume that if someone is trying to confirm that someone is cheating here and making a thread about it publicly it should be taken care of in a way that helps everyone right? Like if i was going to call someone a cheater/hacker or whatever I know that i would get a lot more evidence than this OP did i do agree on that. But i don't think someone is that stupid making a thread this big for the fun of it, that's just really stupid and not good at all.
Well how can we solve this easy and simple without any further 100+ pages discussion? So everyone is happy.
edit: so you have looked into it? that Rush isn't in fact that other guy? Provide us with the evidence u guys got then? And just solve this so the OP can't just spit out accusations
Obviously this thread is the best way to handle the problem for everyone.
With all due respect, the OP seemed to have asked via PM first. I can understand that it sucks to repeat the same all over, but why not just tell him what you know / have already done about it?
i dont understand one thing. If i was a admin of some tourney and someone send me pm about cheating i wouldnt ban him form a tourney but speak with that person more about it.
On August 30 2012 00:29 Shimy wrote:
Incident Report
Due to the recent actions from the player mca64[KDV], he will no longer be allowed to play in the StarLeague and is from here on out banned from NoisE ASL 2. His offense was blackmailing the league. His message:
From: mca64[KDV] [ 73 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ] Subject: hey Date: 8/29/12 22:08 hey, ive got proofs that Rush = Bibian. Dont want to make a topic with it first, please talk to him and let him admit yourself thats he played for Rush... if not i will create topic within few days Reply
The league rules state that any actions of this sort are banable offences. Sending blackmail messaged to league admins is entirely unacceptable and will not be tolerated. The offence results in a termination of mca64[KDV]'s right to participate in the NoisE ASL 2 and possible restriction from future events. The actions are still under review, however, the league would like to put a stop to any actions of this sort immediately.
Secondly, the accusations are entirely false, while it is possible to question his skill... Bibiane and RuSh' replays were analysed during ASL and the conclusion which zimp drew was that Bibiane and RuSh are indeed different players. zimp's conclusions cannot be seen as biased because he himself did not like RuSh's participation in the ASL.
Any further discussion about the matter from mca64[KDV] will be reviewed by the league and added to the database which could result in a longer suspension from play and/or permanent ban from any future events.
This decision is final.
ASL Administration
soon to be seen that shimy (admin of the tour), babian and rush go to the same school
On August 30 2012 07:49 Kiante wrote: lol blackmail? is this some kind of joke. he tried to resolve it without resorting to a public post and you just sat on it?
In fairness, they didn't "just sit on it."
They disqualified him and accused him of blackmail. Proactive.
It's definately not evidence that they are the same person, but further research should be done. The hotkey and apm patterns are very very similar though... I don't think anyone should be saying "They are not the same person" without further evidence. Them playing each other will probably not work, because if they ARE the same person, they can get a friend to log on the others name, and play with complete opposite hotkeys as they normally do.
What is most surprising is that from the info I've gathered Rush[pain] is clearly over C+ skill level, yet theres an argument trying to be made to prove he's even higer rank than B-/B LOL. Give me a break, he's already above yellow rank. We know it, he knows it and the admins know it. So, why bother trying to prove he's a higher rank when he's already above the supposed allowed skill level? You're not going to change the organizers mind period. It's their decision
I'd also like to touch on the fact that some people think it's so impossible to have a large conspiracy take place because the "leaders" and "organizers" would never allow this, they must live under a rock. That's extremely dangerous logic.
I don't think Bibiane would of stooped so low to play for Rush[pain]. However, if all three of the users previously mentioned live really close together the possibility that one of them played for Rush[pain] still has a fair probability.
Lastly, the benefit of this thread(that it seems most of have missed) is that it will probably stop them playing for Rush[pain](if they ever did in the first place) for fear of making it too obvious that no one can deny or getting caught.
On August 30 2012 07:53 ArvickHero wrote: I think that is close to the most ridiculous ban ever lol
Given that he was warned twice prior, I agree.
wouldn't classify that PM as blackmail, personally ...
I wouldn't classify someone who hasn't heard about it till this thread as a worthy judge, personally ...
I haven't really read any evidence to the contrary (to whether or not it's blackmail or not) in this thread tbh, so yea if I'm misjudging then it's not my fault, but rather those who have failed to provide any sort of convincing statement otherwise. There are several others who agree with the sentiment.
I'm not agreeing w/ MCA here about whether or not rush and bibiane are the same (I don't), or whether or not Game/Shimy/Zimp/BizzyT/etc are or are not trustworthy (they are), I'm just saying that I don't think that really accounts for blackmail in my book.
On August 30 2012 07:53 ArvickHero wrote: I think that is close to the most ridiculous ban ever lol
Given that he was warned twice prior, I agree.
wouldn't classify that PM as blackmail, personally ...
I wouldn't classify someone who hasn't heard about it till this thread as a worthy judge, personally ...
I haven't really read any evidence to the contrary (to whether or not it's blackmail or not) in this thread tbh, so yea if I'm misjudging then it's not my fault, but rather those who have failed to provide any sort of convincing statement otherwise. There are several others who agree with the sentiment.
I'm not agreeing w/ MCA here about whether or not rush and bibiane are the same (I don't), or whether or not Game/Shimy/Zimp/BizzyT/etc are or are not trustworthy (they are), I'm just saying that I don't think that really accounts for blackmail in my book.
On August 30 2012 07:53 ArvickHero wrote: I think that is close to the most ridiculous ban ever lol
Given that he was warned twice prior, I agree.
wouldn't classify that PM as blackmail, personally ...
I wouldn't classify someone who hasn't heard about it till this thread as a worthy judge, personally ...
I haven't really read any evidence to the contrary (to whether or not it's blackmail or not) in this thread tbh, so yea if I'm misjudging then it's not my fault, but rather those who have failed to provide any sort of convincing statement otherwise. There are several others who agree with the sentiment.
I'm not agreeing w/ MCA here about whether or not rush and bibiane are the same (I don't), or whether or not Game/Shimy/Zimp/BizzyT/etc are or are not trustworthy (they are), I'm just saying that I don't think that really accounts for blackmail in my book.
Yet your first post contradicts this... o_o
On the contrary, my first post is open-ended enough to support my reasons. I said it was ridiculous, but didn't state specifically why. If I my first post had explicitly stated that I thought it was ridiculous because I feel like it's motivated out of personal reasons or what-not, then yes it would be contradictory. I think it's ridiculous to be banned for a wrong reason .. stating the reason of the ban as "repeated harassment" would be better.
On August 30 2012 07:53 ArvickHero wrote: I think that is close to the most ridiculous ban ever lol
Given that he was warned twice prior, I agree.
wouldn't classify that PM as blackmail, personally ...
I wouldn't classify someone who hasn't heard about it till this thread as a worthy judge, personally ...
I haven't really read any evidence to the contrary (to whether or not it's blackmail or not) in this thread tbh, so yea if I'm misjudging then it's not my fault, but rather those who have failed to provide any sort of convincing statement otherwise. There are several others who agree with the sentiment.
I'm not agreeing w/ MCA here about whether or not rush and bibiane are the same (I don't), or whether or not Game/Shimy/Zimp/BizzyT/etc are or are not trustworthy (they are), I'm just saying that I don't think that really accounts for blackmail in my book.
Yet your first post contradicts this... o_o
On the contrary, my first post is open-ended enough to support my reasons. I said it was ridiculous, but didn't state specifically why. If I my first post had explicitly stated that I thought it was ridiculous because I feel like it's motivated out of personal reasons or what-not, then yes it would be contradictory. I think it's ridiculous to be banned for a wrong reason .. stating the reason of the ban as "repeated harassment" would be better.
i dont care if they are the same person but if rush is clearly a b player from what ive seen why admins let him play??, its unfair for the rest of the players.. if he plays hell win..
The poll has spoken ! It is now conclusive, Bibiane and Rush are the same guy, Scan is probably in on it too in some way. The very organisation said to protect us are in fact the ones covering up this dark secret. Furthermore, by analyzing this thread I have come to the conclusion that not only is Bibiane Rush, but they are also Game, Eywa, Shimy and Zimp ... all in one giant smurfing/scamming machine set out to ... steal the ASL price money!!! ...or something.
On August 30 2012 09:03 DorF wrote: The poll has spoken ! It is now conclusive, Bibiane and Rush are the same guy, Scan is probably in on it too in some way. The very organisation said to protect us are in fact the ones covering up this dark secret. Furthermore, by analyzing this thread I have come to the conclusion that not only is Bibiane Rush, but they are also Game, Eywa, Shimy and Zimp ... all in one giant smurfing/scamming machine set out to ... steal the ASL price money!!! ...or something.
Hi, my name is DorF and I think everyone in the world is a good person, theres no such thing as conspiracy and theres no way in hell that Rush[pain] is a b-/b rank user or that bibiane played on his account!(even though he only lives 5 minutes away)
On August 30 2012 09:03 DorF wrote: The poll has spoken ! It is now conclusive, Bibiane and Rush are the same guy, Scan is probably in on it too in some way. The very organisation said to protect us are in fact the ones covering up this dark secret. Furthermore, by analyzing this thread I have come to the conclusion that not only is Bibiane Rush, but they are also Game, Eywa, Shimy and Zimp ... all in one giant smurfing/scamming machine set out to ... steal the ASL price money!!! ...or something.
Hi, my name is DorF and I think everyone in the world is a good person, theres no such thing as conspiracy and theres no way in hell that Rush[pain] is a b-/b rank user or that bibiane played on his account!(even though he only lives 5 minutes away)
HO HO HO HO
You santa now Johny ? I could have begun to beleive this thread if not the obvious stated issues above, or the fact that it was written by a mad scientist from somewhere in the old eastern bloc... come to think of it, the only 2 poeple I could never trust however flimsy or circumstantial evidence they might produce, are you and beforementioned. And really ... why would Game,Eywa,Zimp,Shimy and so forth try to support bibiane and rush splitting the ASL price money ? I mean I can clearly see the why Bibi would want a peice of that glorious ASL cake. But why would everyone else cover it up, if it now were so obvious (4 replays can't bother to post the rest of the supposed tons of reps he watched, instead he just spends his posts being salty over getting booted from the ASL) But yeah ...drama is always fun, don't get me wrong
<3 BW drama on TL. People actually know how to construct (sometimes even funny) reasoned arguments, post properly, and for the most part don't devolve into an insult clusterfuck.
o.0 in the way the OP presented them, the reps do look similar, but that was probably the point. Need a bigger sample size to be conclusive though. That, or get Rush and bibiane to stream at the same time
On August 30 2012 06:42 thezanursic wrote: Eywa: If you're not already convinced that RuSh and Bibiane are the same player, than look at the last bunch of hotkeys 6+, Bibiane doesn't start to use them until the 12-13 minute mark whereas RuSh starts using them around 8... I'm guessing they have the same purpose, but Bibiane is just a very slow player and doesn't know what the fuck he's doing for those 4 minutes he just spams his CC and shit. Clearly, I'm very convinced by your fancy graphics with no analysis.
The fact that it happens at different times could be attributed to different builds/different builds of opponents.
Find a replay where they are doing the same build and then add some fancy graphics and I'll be convinced that they are not the same person
So basically, you're saying that his screen shots prove nothing and show nothing of value, yet I have to dig up replays and provide screen shots? Funny man.
Funny world we live in, guilty until proven innocent.
I just don't want somebody who might be doing the right thing to get banned and I don't want somebody who might be smurfing to get away with it.
In best case-scenario Rush and Bibiane are proven to be innocent and no further drama is caused because of mca64s wrong assumption.
On August 30 2012 09:03 DorF wrote: The poll has spoken ! It is now conclusive, Bibiane and Rush are the same guy, Scan is probably in on it too in some way. The very organisation said to protect us are in fact the ones covering up this dark secret. Furthermore, by analyzing this thread I have come to the conclusion that not only is Bibiane Rush, but they are also Game, Eywa, Shimy and Zimp ... all in one giant smurfing/scamming machine set out to ... steal the ASL price money!!! ...or something.
Hi, my name is DorF and I think everyone in the world is a good person, theres no such thing as conspiracy and theres no way in hell that Rush[pain] is a b-/b rank user or that bibiane played on his account!(even though he only lives 5 minutes away)
HO HO HO HO
You santa now Johny ? I could have begun to beleive this thread if not the obvious stated issues above, or the fact that it was written by a mad scientist from somewhere in the old eastern bloc... come to think of it, the only 2 poeple I could never trust however flimsy or circumstantial evidence they might produce, are you and beforementioned. And really ... why would Game,Eywa,Zimp,Shimy and so forth try to support bibiane and rush splitting the ASL price money ? I mean I can clearly see the why Bibi would want a peice of that glorious ASL cake. But why would everyone else cover it up, if it now were so obvious (4 replays can't bother to post the rest of the supposed tons of reps he watched, instead he just spends his posts being salty over getting booted from the ASL) But yeah ...drama is always fun, don't get me wrong
I am sure you heard of the saying "don't throw out the baby with the bath water". In other words I never said I agree with his entire "conspiracy" argument (meaning that everyone is in on a conspiracy). My simple point is that you think his argument is extreme and/or dumb so you post how crazy it is. There is something fishy about Rush[Pain] playing in the tournament.
#1 Is it a massive conspiracy including multiple people? Probably not
#2 Could Rush[Pain] just be [Pain]fully obviously above C+ skill level that it makes people think someone else is playing for him, because why else would admins let someone like this play? Maybe
#3 Could Bibiane actually of played some games for him since he lives 5 minutes away? Possibly
The ultimate issue is that no matter how you approach it or what you believe is that most people think Rush[Pain] should not be allowed to participate in the tourney. That's the end result. Period. The last word comes from the organizers though and since it's their tourney then they have the final say. Period. We're just making sure everyone is aware of the situation.
On August 30 2012 06:42 thezanursic wrote: Eywa: If you're not already convinced that RuSh and Bibiane are the same player, than look at the last bunch of hotkeys 6+, Bibiane doesn't start to use them until the 12-13 minute mark whereas RuSh starts using them around 8... I'm guessing they have the same purpose, but Bibiane is just a very slow player and doesn't know what the fuck he's doing for those 4 minutes he just spams his CC and shit. Clearly, I'm very convinced by your fancy graphics with no analysis.
The fact that it happens at different times could be attributed to different builds/different builds of opponents.
Find a replay where they are doing the same build and then add some fancy graphics and I'll be convinced that they are not the same person
So basically, you're saying that his screen shots prove nothing and show nothing of value, yet I have to dig up replays and provide screen shots? Funny man.
Funny world we live in, guilty until proven innocent.
I just don't want somebody who might be doing the right thing to get banned and I don't want somebody who might be smurfing to get away with it.
In best case-scenario Rush and Bibiane are proven to be innocent and no further drama is caused because of mca64s wrong assumption.
You're wrong though.. drama doesn't just take off and leave.
MCA suspects Bibiane = Rush. This would be a big deal because Bibi is gosu while Rush plays in a C league. He PMs the organisation of this league to point this out, offering to keep the discussion internally and is then ACCUSED FOR BLACKMAILING AND BANNED FROM THE LEAGUE (this is pure gold tbh). Having been kicked from the league MCA starts this thread, and starts out by saying Rush and Bibi play 2v2s together. Apparently they are seperate people. But wait, they're actually not. He continues by posting several colourful screenshots. He points out that 31 is close to 32 (while neglecting to point out that these are also close to 29 and 34) while the same holds for 44 and 45 (and 45 and 39 - if this is any evidence, then this bd.Blade fellow is all of them!). More screenshots follow that look nothing alike. There's red circles on them highlighting points in the graphs that don't look particularly similar to one another. Must be my layman's eye. Even more screenshots, now concerning hotkeys. Again they look sort of not similar at all. Must be my layman's eye again right? Thankfully MCA assures us "trust me this is verry unique for each player". If we're just going to trust you then why post these in the first place. He checked alot of replays, TvP and TvZ. No reppack is forthcoming. MCA is 99% sure Rush and Bibi are the same person. Who plays 2v2s with himself. Or something.
Thankfully Game comes in and shares with us that in an entirely different time and space?, zimp couldn't identify them as being the same person. Does that rule out the possibility of occasional smurfing? No. Does that discredit MCA's analysis? No. If the onus is on MCA to prove his hypothesis, you could point of that his evidence hasn't met the burden of proof. Thankfully we can sort this out by accusing people of bias, and flinging some poo like adult monkeys. Game asserts that people we're 99% sure.... when? During ASL which was how long ago? How does this help.. I'm not sure...
We find out that these people actually know each other irl and live close together. Ahh... the plot thickens. No actually.. that would be a good explanation of why they'd play 2v2s together.. and if the one helps the other with practise why their hotkeys would be similar...
Gecko comes in and asks for sample size (and reppack). Good point, but what we all suspect this will do is prove the two are different people. Like zimp asserted in the past and like bizzy also remarked. The question remains did Bibi smurf for Rush in a tournament. Those replays/analysis still aren't forthcoming.
Fast forwar to page 4 where Eywa actually points out flaws in MCA's analysis. Look like we're getting somewhere but how can I tell. Kiante comes in and points out how a bunch of things are stupid. He's right. And than Favian_Su points out that majority opinion = truth. Great discussion so far.
TL;DR So anyway. Rush != Bibiane. They're not the same person. I think we can all agree on that. So the only question that remains is: Did Bibiane smurf for Rush in tournament leagues? We can resolve this in only 1 way. Have the replays from those tournaments analysed. So.
- The next post will contain a link to those replays
- The post below that will be the analysis by someone like zimp or romad who have been forwarded by both parties as experts on the subject matter.
After that the discussion can continue. Everyone else can consider this topic closed. Any next post not adhering to the description above can get a ban.
I'd say no, but if they do live next to each other, it's hard to believe Bibiane never ever smurfed for Rush. The fact MCA suggested huge similarities between Rush and Bibiane before he even knew they were living together makes it really fishy.
On August 30 2012 09:03 DorF wrote: The poll has spoken ! It is now conclusive, Bibiane and Rush are the same guy, Scan is probably in on it too in some way. The very organisation said to protect us are in fact the ones covering up this dark secret. Furthermore, by analyzing this thread I have come to the conclusion that not only is Bibiane Rush, but they are also Game, Eywa, Shimy and Zimp ... all in one giant smurfing/scamming machine set out to ... steal the ASL price money!!! ...or something.
Hi, my name is DorF and I think everyone in the world is a good person, theres no such thing as conspiracy and theres no way in hell that Rush[pain] is a b-/b rank user or that bibiane played on his account!(even though he only lives 5 minutes away)
HO HO HO HO
You santa now Johny ? I could have begun to beleive this thread if not the obvious stated issues above, or the fact that it was written by a mad scientist from somewhere in the old eastern bloc... come to think of it, the only 2 poeple I could never trust however flimsy or circumstantial evidence they might produce, are you and beforementioned. And really ... why would Game,Eywa,Zimp,Shimy and so forth try to support bibiane and rush splitting the ASL price money ? I mean I can clearly see the why Bibi would want a peice of that glorious ASL cake. But why would everyone else cover it up, if it now were so obvious (4 replays can't bother to post the rest of the supposed tons of reps he watched, instead he just spends his posts being salty over getting booted from the ASL) But yeah ...drama is always fun, don't get me wrong
I am sure you heard of the saying "don't throw out the baby with the bath water". In other words I never said I agree with his entire "conspiracy" argument (meaning that everyone is in on a conspiracy). My simple point is that you think his argument is extreme and/or dumb so you post how crazy it is. There is something fishy about Rush[Pain] playing in the tournament.
#1 Is it a massive conspiracy including multiple people? Probably not
#2 Could Rush[Pain] just be [Pain]fully obviously above C+ skill level that it makes people think someone else is playing for him, because why else would admins let someone like this play? Maybe
#3 Could Bibiane actually of played some games for him since he lives 5 minutes away? Possibly
The ultimate issue is that no matter how you approach it or what you believe is that most people think Rush[Pain] should not be allowed to participate in the tourney. That's the end result. Period. The last word comes from the organizers though and since it's their tourney then they have the final say. Period. We're just making sure everyone is aware of the situation.
then i guess we have our answer here. they can play 2v2s because not same person, but bibi comes over to smurf. GENIUS!
On August 30 2012 09:03 DorF wrote: The poll has spoken ! It is now conclusive, Bibiane and Rush are the same guy, Scan is probably in on it too in some way. The very organisation said to protect us are in fact the ones covering up this dark secret. Furthermore, by analyzing this thread I have come to the conclusion that not only is Bibiane Rush, but they are also Game, Eywa, Shimy and Zimp ... all in one giant smurfing/scamming machine set out to ... steal the ASL price money!!! ...or something.
Hi, my name is DorF and I think everyone in the world is a good person, theres no such thing as conspiracy and theres no way in hell that Rush[pain] is a b-/b rank user or that bibiane played on his account!(even though he only lives 5 minutes away)
HO HO HO HO
You santa now Johny ? I could have begun to beleive this thread if not the obvious stated issues above, or the fact that it was written by a mad scientist from somewhere in the old eastern bloc... come to think of it, the only 2 poeple I could never trust however flimsy or circumstantial evidence they might produce, are you and beforementioned. And really ... why would Game,Eywa,Zimp,Shimy and so forth try to support bibiane and rush splitting the ASL price money ? I mean I can clearly see the why Bibi would want a peice of that glorious ASL cake. But why would everyone else cover it up, if it now were so obvious (4 replays can't bother to post the rest of the supposed tons of reps he watched, instead he just spends his posts being salty over getting booted from the ASL) But yeah ...drama is always fun, don't get me wrong
I am sure you heard of the saying "don't throw out the baby with the bath water". In other words I never said I agree with his entire "conspiracy" argument (meaning that everyone is in on a conspiracy). My simple point is that you think his argument is extreme and/or dumb so you post how crazy it is. There is something fishy about Rush[Pain] playing in the tournament.
#1 Is it a massive conspiracy including multiple people? Probably not
#2 Could Rush[Pain] just be [Pain]fully obviously above C+ skill level that it makes people think someone else is playing for him, because why else would admins let someone like this play? Maybe
#3 Could Bibiane actually of played some games for him since he lives 5 minutes away? Possibly
The ultimate issue is that no matter how you approach it or what you believe is that most people think Rush[Pain] should not be allowed to participate in the tourney. That's the end result. Period. The last word comes from the organizers though and since it's their tourney then they have the final say. Period. We're just making sure everyone is aware of the situation.
then i guess we have our answer here. they can play 2v2s because not same person, but bibi comes over to smurf. GENIUS!
User was temp banned for this post.
Why exactly did he get temp banned for this? It's not that far fetched.
I'm not sure if the ban thing is a good idea since the party that want this issue to die down is also the one responsible to deliver the deciding post so they can just leave this here with everybody banned and noone gonna dig it out again for the truth.
I'm not trying to get banned here, but being more specific at the end of your post Pholon would have helped. Something like, "Do not post unless it contains a link to the replays or are zimp or romad offering detailed analysis on the matter.
At first it is very strange that mca got banned from tourney. Why they consider it as blackmailing i have no slightest idea. Seems like ASL2 admins have tiny brains, but it doesnt matter. Oh no it matters, they are not intelligent enough to notice that rush[pain] is more skilled than C+ player. But wait, they close on eyes on that and dont even think about other players and their rights but instead ban dude who made his own investigation. Secondly behavior of Eywa and Game seems intolerable. They simply post bullshit with no arguments trying to persuade us because they did a lot for bw. Eywa is hysterical damned wretch i can say looking at his posts.
This isn't going anywhere. They're quite clearly not the same person and the burden of proof that they are (for one or more games) has not been met. Also GJ guys above me. Closing now.
i see topic is unclosed now and i want to post little update. I asked today Bibiane for posting replay of him vs Rush. If there is like Bibian and others says (like Game), this replay could prove that he is not guilty, but he refused sayin "i dont care"
even if im 100% sure that he cheated in ASL i feel little sorry for him and want that the whole situation isnt true so i tried to "help" him with asking for this this replay...
When ASL1 was going i was part of the counter abuse team and this issue already came up so i spent quite some time figuring it out. I collected a lot of Rush and Bibiane replays: 20-30 from each, i even found ZvT of both and had smurf games as well. Plus Shimy sent me all of Rush's tournament replays for a check. I put them in 1 folder which i deleted after the tournament was over so unfortunately i can't share it with you. However if you want to check on your own, you can find a lot of Rush replays here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351248 and compare them with Bibiane replays that are uploaded to iccup or random tournament events. http://www.iccup.com/starcraft/replays/search/advanced/go/?name=bibiane&map=&matchup=0
So I really checked through each replay carefully back then and here's what i found: Their basic hotkey pattern is very similar but there are a few small differences. (Rush uses 2 for buildings sometimes and he uses much more useless assigns. Plus their beginning 3cc spam is slightly different.) So i thought either they are different people, or Bibiane changes his keys a bit in order to look different (it is possible). But later on i closed this out because 1) if he really wanted to do that, he would have changed it more, and 2) i asked around canadian koreans and someone told me he knows them personally and they are different people, who play together.
Did Bibiane smurf for Rush in ASL1? - Hotkey analysis showed me no.
I have to add here though that i think Rush is too high level for a ~C rank starleague. He almost streamrolled though the ladder stage of ASL1 with his offraces, so he was always suspicious for me. All we knew about his previous ranks were this: 10-1 D+, 17-2 C-, 45-17 C. I told Shimy after the ladder stage not to allow Rush to play, because I watched some of his replays and he really looked like a B-/B ranked terran to me. I even told Shimy that Rush will win the tournament -.- But he wouldn't listen, so i quit the CAT because i didn't want to give my name for Rush's legitimized win. I'm not saying you should blame Shimy for this, i just mean he misjudged that situation. After ASL1 I actually asked Rush in PM about his real rank, and he told me he never reached above C+ but only because he never tried hard enough. So theoretically he met the requirements for that league but in practice, he shouldn't have been allowed to play.
Sorry for giving that out but AFAIK Rush didn't sign in for ASL2 so its only about the past : ]
On August 31 2012 19:23 zimp wrote: ... Their basic hotkey pattern is very similar but there are a few small differences. (Rush uses 2 for buildings sometimes and he uses much more useless assigns. Plus their beginning 3cc spam is slightly different.) So i thought either they are different people, or Bibiane changes his keys a bit in order to look different (it is possible)...
So only difrence is that Rush added some spam hotkeys. For me this thing speaks for smurfing.. if it was vicer versa then i should have little doubt...
On August 31 2012 19:48 aquados wrote: if i read it correctly we can go ahead and restart the disscusion (if i am correct)
i am still a bit confused about zimp's post, so rush is not bibiane but is b- at skill but didn't tried to ladder to reach it?
zimp didnt say it couldnt be Bibiane, from his words there is a possibility. He said how it looked back again. Only Bibiane can exonerates yourself by posting replay vs Rush, but i m sure he wouldnt do it...
On August 31 2012 19:48 aquados wrote: if i read it correctly we can go ahead and restart the disscusion (if i am correct)
i am still a bit confused about zimp's post, so rush is not bibiane but is b- at skill but didn't tried to ladder to reach it?
zimp didnt say it couldnt be Bibiane, from his words there is a possibility. He said how it looked back again. Only Bibiane can exonerates yourself by posting replay vs Rush, but i m sure he wouldnt do it...
They're not the same person. They play 2v2s together. Give it up.
On August 31 2012 19:48 aquados wrote: if i read it correctly we can go ahead and restart the disscusion (if i am correct)
i am still a bit confused about zimp's post, so rush is not bibiane but is b- at skill but didn't tried to ladder to reach it?
zimp didnt say it couldnt be Bibiane, from his words there is a possibility. He said how it looked back again. Only Bibiane can exonerates yourself by posting replay vs Rush, but i m sure he wouldnt do it...
They're not the same person. They play 2v2s together. Give it up.
i know, but in replay where two players has the same hks will prove that i am wrong
On August 31 2012 20:17 Pholon wrote: The onus isn't them though.
i dont understand your logic. If someone is acused its his business to clear up, if that person doesant want to do it by posting one stuid replay.. that does not look suspicious?
On August 31 2012 19:23 zimp wrote: ... Their basic hotkey pattern is very similar but there are a few small differences. (Rush uses 2 for buildings sometimes and he uses much more useless assigns. Plus their beginning 3cc spam is slightly different.) So i thought either they are different people, or Bibiane changes his keys a bit in order to look different (it is possible)...
So only difrence is that Rush added some spam hotkeys. For me this thing speaks for smurfing.. if it was vicer versa then i should have little doubt...
On August 31 2012 19:53 mca64[KDV] wrote: zimp didnt say it couldnt be Bibiane, from his words there is a possibility. He said how it looked back again. Only Bibiane can exonerates yourself by posting replay vs Rush, but i m sure he wouldnt do it...
Sometimes there is very small difference in hotkey between different players. I'd love to see a bibiane vs rush replay too, but from the info available now, i still think what i concluded back then.
On August 31 2012 19:48 aquados wrote: if i read it correctly we can go ahead and restart the disscusion (if i am correct)
i am still a bit confused about zimp's post, so rush is not bibiane but is b- at skill but didn't tried to ladder to reach it?
exactly. ok well not exactly because i said he is ~B
On August 31 2012 20:17 Pholon wrote: The onus isn't them though.
i dont understand your logic. If someone is acused its his business to clear up, if that person doesant want to do it by posting one stuid replay.. that does not look suspicious?
I think you're actually a Polish smurf of Jaedong. Please provide a replay of you vs him to clear this up.
On August 31 2012 20:17 Pholon wrote: The onus isn't them though.
i dont understand your logic. If someone is acused its his business to clear up, if that person doesant want to do it by posting one stuid replay.. that does not look suspicious?
I think you're actually a Polish smurf of Jaedong. Please provide a replay of you vs him to clear this up.
i dont train with him, i dont play 2v2 with him like Bibiane and Rush doeas. I wish i could do that with jd!
Why not just compare their 2v2 replays with their 1v1 ones?
On August 31 2012 19:23 zimp wrote: if he really wanted to do that, he would have changed it more
This can be a misleading thought. When Koreans tried to change their pattern on iccup they changed only 1-2 keys, simply thinking it would be enough to trick everybody.
I haven't checked the replays yet, but i am sure i won't tell more than zimp has already told. To be sure, you will need to provide their 2x2 replay or a 1x1 replay between them, otherwise it will be a close call and that's it.
On August 31 2012 20:53 roMAD wrote: I haven't checked the replays yet, but i am sure i won't tell more than zimp has already told. To be sure, you will need to provide their 2x2 replay or a 1x1 replay between them, otherwise it will be a close call and that's it.
From: mca64[KDV] [ 114 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ] Subject: Re: hey Date: 8/29/12 23:12 his fingerprints are in replays. Analyzed in BWchart, bwrepinfo and BWhfagent. Clearly says its the same person. Its not possible to be diffrent person, you can ask romad and he will confirm.
On August 31 2012 19:23 zimp wrote: When ASL1 was going i was part of the counter abuse team and this issue already came up so i spent quite some time figuring it out. I collected a lot of Rush and Bibiane replays: 20-30 from each, i even found ZvT of both and had smurf games as well. Plus Shimy sent me all of Rush's tournament replays for a check. I put them in 1 folder which i deleted after the tournament was over so unfortunately i can't share it with you. However if you want to check on your own, you can find a lot of Rush replays here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351248 and compare them with Bibiane replays that are uploaded to iccup or random tournament events. http://www.iccup.com/starcraft/replays/search/advanced/go/?name=bibiane&map=&matchup=0
So I really checked through each replay carefully back then and here's what i found: Their basic hotkey pattern is very similar but there are a few small differences. (Rush uses 2 for buildings sometimes and he uses much more useless assigns. Plus their beginning 3cc spam is slightly different.) So i thought either they are different people, or Bibiane changes his keys a bit in order to look different (it is possible). But later on i closed this out because 1) if he really wanted to do that, he would have changed it more, and 2) i asked around canadian koreans and someone told me he knows them personally and they are different people, who play together.
Did Bibiane smurf for Rush in ASL1? - Hotkey analysis showed me no.
I have to add here though that i think Rush is too high level for a ~C rank starleague. He almost streamrolled though the ladder stage of ASL1 with his offraces, so he was always suspicious for me. All we knew about his previous ranks were this: 10-1 D+, 17-2 C-, 45-17 C. I told Shimy after the ladder stage not to allow Rush to play, because I watched some of his replays and he really looked like a B-/B ranked terran to me. I even told Shimy that Rush will win the tournament -.- But he wouldn't listen, so i quit the CAT because i didn't want to give my name for Rush's legitimized win. I'm not saying you should blame Shimy for this, i just mean he misjudged that situation. After ASL1 I actually asked Rush in PM about his real rank, and he told me he never reached above C+ but only because he never tried hard enough. So theoretically he met the requirements for that league but in practice, he shouldn't have been allowed to play.
Sorry for giving that out but AFAIK Rush didn't sign in for ASL2 so its only about the past : ]
Completely aside from this ridiculous thread: if you are about to analyze replays, do you only compare hotkeys or are there different features you have a look at?
Don't take this as offense, but since Pholon, Eywa, the OP and several other people made such a jalla-jalla about you being an expert, and given the general "atmosphere" of this thread I expected some fancy Sherlock-Holmes like deduction show deluxe, featuring lots and lots of screens (or at least 2-3) showing what you found out. The apparently OP made mistakes, but what should an amateur look for?
Note: it's not related to the people the OP wants to have, but more a general question.
Again, no offense, don't read anything bad into it.
On August 31 2012 19:23 zimp wrote: When ASL1 was going i was part of the counter abuse team and this issue already came up so i spent quite some time figuring it out. I collected a lot of Rush and Bibiane replays: 20-30 from each, i even found ZvT of both and had smurf games as well. Plus Shimy sent me all of Rush's tournament replays for a check. I put them in 1 folder which i deleted after the tournament was over so unfortunately i can't share it with you. However if you want to check on your own, you can find a lot of Rush replays here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351248 and compare them with Bibiane replays that are uploaded to iccup or random tournament events. http://www.iccup.com/starcraft/replays/search/advanced/go/?name=bibiane&map=&matchup=0
So I really checked through each replay carefully back then and here's what i found: Their basic hotkey pattern is very similar but there are a few small differences. (Rush uses 2 for buildings sometimes and he uses much more useless assigns. Plus their beginning 3cc spam is slightly different.) So i thought either they are different people, or Bibiane changes his keys a bit in order to look different (it is possible). But later on i closed this out because 1) if he really wanted to do that, he would have changed it more, and 2) i asked around canadian koreans and someone told me he knows them personally and they are different people, who play together.
Did Bibiane smurf for Rush in ASL1? - Hotkey analysis showed me no.
I have to add here though that i think Rush is too high level for a ~C rank starleague. He almost streamrolled though the ladder stage of ASL1 with his offraces, so he was always suspicious for me. All we knew about his previous ranks were this: 10-1 D+, 17-2 C-, 45-17 C. I told Shimy after the ladder stage not to allow Rush to play, because I watched some of his replays and he really looked like a B-/B ranked terran to me. I even told Shimy that Rush will win the tournament -.- But he wouldn't listen, so i quit the CAT because i didn't want to give my name for Rush's legitimized win. I'm not saying you should blame Shimy for this, i just mean he misjudged that situation. After ASL1 I actually asked Rush in PM about his real rank, and he told me he never reached above C+ but only because he never tried hard enough. So theoretically he met the requirements for that league but in practice, he shouldn't have been allowed to play.
Sorry for giving that out but AFAIK Rush didn't sign in for ASL2 so its only about the past : ]
Completely aside from this ridiculous thread: if you are about to analyze replays, do you only compare hotkeys or are there different features you have a look at?
Don't take this as offense, but since Pholon, Eywa, the OP and several other people made such a jalla-jalla about you being an expert, and given the general "atmosphere" of this thread I expected some fancy Sherlock-Holmes like deduction show deluxe, featuring lots and lots of screens (or at least 2-3) showing what you found out. The apparently OP made mistakes, but what should an amateur look for?
Note: it's not related to the people the OP wants to have, but more a general question.
Again, no offense, don't read anything bad into it.
There is so much more than just hotkeys. Even watching replays looking at building placements, rally points, scouting patterns/timings, spam tendencies, hotkey assignment times are all helpful to consider. And this is just a few things there are so much more that I know I'm forgetting.
Zimp and Romad are probably two of my favorite posters on TL period. I actually really miss broodwar iccup who's who threads and the hunt every season to find progamer smurfs. Sc2 doesn't have anything fun like that...
On August 31 2012 22:40 Sayle wrote: zimp, do you know who really killed JFK?
ssshhs zimp, dont tell for this guy the real truth, the big brother always seeing you'
about the topic: for me agent zimp got the point
about mca: i think he is a youngster, maybe with a low mental illness (/j) who did a mistake, but not that big to ban from the event .. why so serious?
about ASL2: regarding about zimps comment, i wonder why you admins dont let my brother Breach to sign up for this event? if its true, this Rush guy' above C+, and he roll the previous season ladder stage with offrace, its a bit ridiculous. Someone think Breach is above this level too, but i dont think so, cuz he is practicing SC2 simultaneously. Thats true, may he start bw massplayin, then probably can get B or higher rank, but for him obviously SC2 much important in this times. So.. here is a few solutions (its not offensive, just my own opinion: i have eight years experience on esports and organising, and i have eleven years player career .. may iam not wrong)
- if u guys let rush play, let breach too and vice versa if breach cannot participate, kick rush too' - kicking a young boy, because he harassing a bit, its not a wise choice. just talk with him, again and again, may he will grow up, like everyone else
i wish you guys make a wise choice, to make a better and flexible event for us
ya, ostrich policy fails ~ peace and a glass of wine'
On August 31 2012 22:40 Sayle wrote: zimp, do you know who really killed JFK?
ssshhs zimp, dont tell for this guy the real truth, the big brother always seeing you'
about the topic: for me agent zimp got the point
about mca: i think he is a youngster, maybe with a low mental illness (/j) who did a mistake, but not that big to ban from the event .. why so serious?
about ASL2: regarding about zimps comment, i wonder why you admins dont let my brother Breach to sign up for this event? if its true, this Rush guy' above C+, and he roll the previous season ladder stage with offrace, its a bit ridiculous. Someone think Breach is above this level too, but i dont think so, cuz he is practicing SC2 simultaneously. Thats true, may he start bw massplayin, then probably can get B or higher rank, but for him obviously SC2 much important in this times. So.. here is a few solutions (its not offensive, just my own opinion: i have eight years experience on esports and organising, and i have eleven years player career .. may iam not wrong)
- if u guys let rush play, let breach too and vice versa if breach cannot participate, kick rush too' - kicking a young boy, because he harassing a bit, its not a wise choice. just talk with him, again and again, may he will grow up, like everyone else
i wish you guys make a wise choice, to make a better and flexible event for us
ya, ostrich policy fails ~ peace and a glass of wine'
thank You for support! I am a nice retarded guy so also will help
Breach lost to me 1;2 in ysl ladder stage (he played his main race P). So common let him play, he can be more than c+ if i won vs him
nice to see that not only i think that...
On August 30 2012 08:41 Favian_Su wrote:
Poll: Do you think Rush[PaiN] = Bibiane[PaiN]?
Yes (75)
74%
No (26)
26%
101 total votes
Your vote: Do you think Rush[PaiN] = Bibiane[PaiN]?
Honestly having the two play wouldn't solve anything. The people who want to believe bibiane smurfed will never be satisfied, and it's too east to invalidate the rep that was played. The point of having the two play would be to show how similar of hotkeys they have, but how similar is similar enough? "OH SHIT RUSH HAS 30% REDUNDANCY WHILE BIBIANE ONLY HAS 25% CLEARLY IT WAS BIBIANE WHO WAS PLAYING FOR RUSH ALL ALONG BECAUSE NOW THEIR REDUNDANCY ARE SO DIFFERENT!!!" And even beyond that, rush should lose to bibbiane, as bibbiane is a very talented player. How do we decide how close the game needs to be to show rush is playing to his potential? "OH SHIT RUSH GOT CRUSHED!!! CLEARLY HE WAS PLAYING BADLY BECAUSE HE WAS TRYING TO USE SOMEONE ELSE'S HOTKEYS!!!" Vice versa could also be claimed if bibiane was beaten, as there would be "no way that an a player could lose unless he was using someone else's hotkeys".
The point is no one is going to change their position. Even if the hotkeys are radically different, the people who believe they are separate people would not be swayed by such a small sample size, as they already have not. And on the other side, there are people who really REALLY want to believe in conspiratorial theories, and there is no way to change that.
hacke and what about bibane deasnt want to upload replay with him + rush at the same game. isnt this suspicious? add that Rush is "ghost" player. Played ASL (befor this tour he was unknow player with proven about 100 games @ iccup) and then stoped playin but he still is sittin #pain clan channel @ iccup , same school as Bibiane etc etc... what about this facts?
and sampe size had nothing with this case, its not survey measurement error
I'll give you that some things here are suspicious, but not playing is very understandable and the right decision for all involved imo. An argument based off of a bunch of suspicious stuff is weak. Suspicion should only be used as an indicator that more digging should be done, and that's exactly what happened. Zimp's digging lead to tangible evidence that there was no foul play. And for this tangible evidence (which is the only thing I am considering when making the decision for myself) sample size absolutely does matter.
In my opinion the problem is not who RUSH is or isn't - it's the fact that he is clearly way too good for this tournament compared to both fellow participants and rank-wise - at least if he bothered playing 50~ games on ICCUP. Takes some of the fun away both from participants, viewers and even organizers I'd assume. Of course this adds some tension and drama which I would normally be found of, but in this case it's morel like .. meh, he'll just stomp his way to first place anyway - wonder who comes second.
I told Shimy after the ladder stage not to allow Rush to play, because I watched some of his replays and he really looked like a B-/B ranked terran to me. I even told Shimy that Rush will win the tournament -.- But he wouldn't listen, so i quit the CAT because i didn't want to give my name for Rush's legitimized win.
This - for me - says everything. I do not care that Shimy let him play and I do not jugde his decision at all, but letting him in for the second time is a bit over given his play in the last ASL. I do not know how much time people have spent watching replays, but I believe zimp is one of those who has most experience when it comes to this. If he says that this guy looks like a B-/B terran it probably has something to it.
Anyway, I'm still looking forward to playing this and I hope someone can cheese Rush out of this tournament. Nothing personal to you, Rush, but this would give people a fighting chance at winning this instead of having a predetermined winner.
On September 01 2012 02:03 hacklebeast wrote: I'll give you that some things here are suspicious, but not playing is very understandable and the right decision for all involved imo. An argument based off of a bunch of suspicious stuff is weak. Suspicion should only be used as an indicator that more digging should be done, and that's exactly what happened. Zimp's digging lead to tangible evidence that there was no foul play. And for this tangible evidence (which is the only thing I am considering when making the decision for myself) sample size absolutely does matter.
On September 01 2012 01:37 hacklebeast wrote: Honestly having the two play wouldn't solve anything. The people who want to believe bibiane smurfed will never be satisfied, and it's too east to invalidate the rep that was played. The point of having the two play would be to show how similar of hotkeys they have, but how similar is similar enough? "OH SHIT RUSH HAS 30% REDUNDANCY WHILE BIBIANE ONLY HAS 25% CLEARLY IT WAS BIBIANE WHO WAS PLAYING FOR RUSH ALL ALONG BECAUSE NOW THEIR REDUNDANCY ARE SO DIFFERENT!!!" And even beyond that, rush should lose to bibbiane, as bibbiane is a very talented player. How do we decide how close the game needs to be to show rush is playing to his potential? "OH SHIT RUSH GOT CRUSHED!!! CLEARLY HE WAS PLAYING BADLY BECAUSE HE WAS TRYING TO USE SOMEONE ELSE'S HOTKEYS!!!" Vice versa could also be claimed if bibiane was beaten, as there would be "no way that an a player could lose unless he was using someone else's hotkeys".
The point is no one is going to change their position. Even if the hotkeys are radically different, the people who believe they are separate people would not be swayed by such a small sample size, as they already have not. And on the other side, there are people who really REALLY want to believe in conspiratorial theories, and there is no way to change that.
You're wrong... The people who believe RuSh = Bibiane will always believe that regardless of evidence, the people who think RuSh =/= Bibiane will be swayed with proper evidence. With that being said, it's obvious that one side is terribly blind by some kind of hatred (probably because RuSh maybe shouldn't have been admitted to ASL... Not going to say true or false)... But anyway, I think the people who are so fixed on RuSh being the same player as Bibiane are just being childish in nature, to cling to an idea which is proven to be false... It's pretty terrible, I mean... Everyone who hates Bibiane for no apparent reason, please,
1) Go gather your evidence before posting (This was done) 2) Have it checked by an non-bias expert (check with a couple if you're not sure) to ensure the validity of your evidence (Was not done) 3) Write a clearly worded post about how this is evidence and why it's 100% (Was not done) 4) Bring up the issue with the highest organizers of the scene with concrete evidence and signature of the expert (Was not done) 5) Post if you have completed all of the above with 100% certitude then post on your own in a huge ass drama thread.
Anything that resembles "I looked at it and it seems legitimate" or "This expert would agree if he saw it" simply doesn't make a legitimate thread to incriminate someone on. We're not living in medieval times when you can accuse someone of being a witch and they have to prove otherwise. So please, please, please, go through the required steps and your work will be acknowledged... As it stands, this thread has long overstayed it's due on teamliquid in my opinion and I hope that mods seriously take this post into account and put in regulations so that people can't just go on wacky witch hunts.
On September 01 2012 02:15 krndandaman wrote: Lol I just want to throw this out there, but if Bibiane and Rush really do live within a meetable distance, there are so many more ways to cheat than just smurfing for the other player. Some "ideas": - Have one of them start the game and have the other take over later on. Since they have such similar hotkeys anyways it wouldn't really affect their play and I don't think people could tell that a different player switched over (Have Bibiane build up big advantage and let Rush finish. Or let Rush start it off and let Bibiane finish it with superior multitasking, macro, overall gameplay). -Have Bibiane watching over Rush's shoulder and tell him what to do/help him. This is a huge advantage as those who have done this with friends before should know (I've sure done it on iccup ladder before with D friends and helped them beat up to C- players). etc. Dunno why you guys are only considering the possibility of smurfing
Yeah, this was discussed... But having someone telling you to macro or micro or do whatever is not a punishable offence, there is no way of seeing it happen.
On September 01 2012 02:04 dr.shrinker wrote: In my opinion the problem is not who RUSH is or isn't - it's the fact that he is clearly way too good for this tournament compared to both fellow participants and rank-wise - at least if he bothered playing 50~ games on ICCUP. Takes some of the fun away both from participants, viewers and even organizers I'd assume. Of course this adds some tension and drama which I would normally be found of, but in this case it's morel like .. meh, he'll just stomp his way to first place anyway - wonder who comes second.
I told Shimy after the ladder stage not to allow Rush to play, because I watched some of his replays and he really looked like a B-/B ranked terran to me. I even told Shimy that Rush will win the tournament -.- But he wouldn't listen, so i quit the CAT because i didn't want to give my name for Rush's legitimized win.
This - for me - says everything. I do not care that Shimy let him play and I do not jugde his decision at all, but letting him in for the second time is a bit over given his play in the last ASL. I do not know how much time people have spent watching replays, but I believe zimp is one of those who has most experience when it comes to this. If he says that this guy looks like a B-/B terran it probably has something to it.
Anyway, I'm still looking forward to playing this and I hope someone can cheese Rush out of this tournament. Nothing personal to you, Rush, but this would give people a fighting chance at winning this instead of having a predetermined winner.
Zimp was right about rush not playing in ASL2. I had a decent discussion with him last night, he decided not to play because he was being flamed by so many people.
On September 01 2012 02:15 krndandaman wrote: Lol I just want to throw this out there, but if Bibiane and Rush really do live within a meetable distance, there are so many more ways to cheat than just smurfing for the other player. Some "ideas": - Have one of them start the game and have the other take over later on. Since they have such similar hotkeys anyways it wouldn't really affect their play and I don't think people could tell that a different player switched over (Have Bibiane build up big advantage and let Rush finish. Or let Rush start it off and let Bibiane finish it with superior multitasking, macro, overall gameplay). -Have Bibiane watching over Rush's shoulder and tell him what to do/help him. This is a huge advantage as those who have done this with friends before should know (I've sure done it on iccup ladder before with D friends and helped them beat up to C- players). etc. Dunno why you guys are only considering the possibility of smurfing
cause faster i will see tities in church than 2 person with the same hk lol even if there are this 2 lucky guys with the same hk, pattern etc Bibian or Rush would just post a replay from a game with these two players and topic is over, but wait Bibiane wouldnt do that cause " i dont care"
Eywa, this is an organizational issue. You are not allowed to have an opinion. Please leave so we who actually can talk about it can have a conversation.
Yeah, I agree that this whole Bibiane-thing is a bit over the top and should've been researched better before claiming it in various threads and streamchats. On the other hand I do not see the problem releasing the 2v2-replays themself to prove they're innocent (.. even tho they are until proven otherwise etc.).
On September 01 2012 02:04 dr.shrinker wrote: In my opinion the problem is not who RUSH is or isn't - it's the fact that he is clearly way too good for this tournament compared to both fellow participants and rank-wise - at least if he bothered playing 50~ games on ICCUP. Takes some of the fun away both from participants, viewers and even organizers I'd assume. Of course this adds some tension and drama which I would normally be found of, but in this case it's morel like .. meh, he'll just stomp his way to first place anyway - wonder who comes second.
I told Shimy after the ladder stage not to allow Rush to play, because I watched some of his replays and he really looked like a B-/B ranked terran to me. I even told Shimy that Rush will win the tournament -.- But he wouldn't listen, so i quit the CAT because i didn't want to give my name for Rush's legitimized win.
This - for me - says everything. I do not care that Shimy let him play and I do not jugde his decision at all, but letting him in for the second time is a bit over given his play in the last ASL. I do not know how much time people have spent watching replays, but I believe zimp is one of those who has most experience when it comes to this. If he says that this guy looks like a B-/B terran it probably has something to it.
Anyway, I'm still looking forward to playing this and I hope someone can cheese Rush out of this tournament. Nothing personal to you, Rush, but this would give people a fighting chance at winning this instead of having a predetermined winner.
yup, don't understand why people don't give this more atantion.
On September 01 2012 02:25 hacklebeast wrote: Eywa, this is an organizational issue. You are not allowed to have an opinion. Please leave so we who actually can talk about it can have a conversation.
That's another opinion. As an organizer you can't see what everyone else can see and therefor they know more than you do. You are not allowed to have an opinion.
On September 01 2012 03:39 dRaW wrote: lol this thread is win, you can read from page 9 and not miss anything since you guys are just repeating the same things over and over.
so i will comment zimp opinion. I thought that he will agree with me, write im not sure or denny with solid arguments. He denied... withs these arguments: " 1) if he really wanted to do that, he would have changed it more, and
2) i asked around canadian koreans and someone told me he knows them personally and they are different people, who play together."
ad 1)
or maybe he isnt too smart and like Romad write : "This can be a misleading thought. When Koreans tried to change their pattern on iccup they changed only 1-2 keys, simply thinking it would be enough to trick everybody."
On August 30 2012 04:27 Qeet wrote: i like how rush has his factory hotkeyed to 456 but only spams 45 for like a minute and never uses 56 after that again also in both replays the hotkey 3 for the cc is never used again at ~12minutes despite not being used for something else
i added some notable things to the picture that are very unusual for a player to use other than smurfing or similarities
i'd really like some replays of them to be sure
ad 2) cmon asking koreans player, who are proablly freind of him? and maybe its was Bizzy? and whats this have common with smurfing? They can be diffrent ppl and so what?
these is the only arguments what zimp has for tellin Bibane wasnt played for Rush... im disapointed by him...
On September 01 2012 03:39 dRaW wrote: lol this thread is win, you can read from page 9 and not miss anything since you guys are just repeating the same things over and over.
personally I thought the second half of page 6 + all of page 7 were the parts most worth reading
On September 01 2012 03:39 dRaW wrote: lol this thread is win, you can read from page 9 and not miss anything since you guys are just repeating the same things over and over.
personally I thought the second half of page 6 + all of page 7 were the parts most worth reading
hahahaha best posts ever i read here, on tl, especially lumix's post
ontopic: so we have to contradiction story's of their real lives what basicly gives all the motives why he is or not bibiane...... well....... zimp good luck mate
On September 01 2012 02:04 dr.shrinker wrote: In my opinion the problem is not who RUSH is or isn't - it's the fact that he is clearly way too good for this tournament compared to both fellow participants and rank-wise - at least if he bothered playing 50~ games on ICCUP. Takes some of the fun away both from participants, viewers and even organizers I'd assume. Of course this adds some tension and drama which I would normally be found of, but in this case it's morel like .. meh, he'll just stomp his way to first place anyway - wonder who comes second.
I told Shimy after the ladder stage not to allow Rush to play, because I watched some of his replays and he really looked like a B-/B ranked terran to me. I even told Shimy that Rush will win the tournament -.- But he wouldn't listen, so i quit the CAT because i didn't want to give my name for Rush's legitimized win.
This - for me - says everything. I do not care that Shimy let him play and I do not jugde his decision at all, but letting him in for the second time is a bit over given his play in the last ASL. I do not know how much time people have spent watching replays, but I believe zimp is one of those who has most experience when it comes to this. If he says that this guy looks like a B-/B terran it probably has something to it.
Anyway, I'm still looking forward to playing this and I hope someone can cheese Rush out of this tournament. Nothing personal to you, Rush, but this would give people a fighting chance at winning this instead of having a predetermined winner.
Zimp was right, RuSh isn't playing in ASL2. I had a decent discussion with him last night, he decided not to play because he was being flamed by so many people.
Wow this is pretty sad actually. A tournament that's presumably won by the best player but at the same time has a cap as to how good people can be is inherently retardedtricky. If the organisers want to attempt it anyway that's on their heads, and any participant subscribing to their idea should know what he's in for. Taking any subsequent frustration out on the players is just wrong. Dunno who this is about but they should be ashamed of themselves.
Power. Power issues. A guy exprimes his concernes and all others can do is accuse him? in Italy we are very used to this type of politics.
This is a power issue. So the question is this: DO you love broodwar? or do you love power? one of these will be strongest.
I sugjest for the good of the communty, to love Broodwar. Love it.
Power gets to peoples heads. I' ve seen it before, and i will see it in the future.
Since right now our community is producing a lot in response of whats going on with the Korean pro scene, please,
put aside personal issues and lets all work togheter towards a better future
And if someone did something wrong, accept it, and don' t try and push the issue and say by words you are right.
You will gain more respect from people admitting you where wrong and moving on that trying at all costs to say you are a saint and have done nothing wrong.
PLEASE, for the love of Broodwar, accept, move on and show us what an organized correctly tournament can be.
i will ask again if Rush is not guilty why he wouldnt just a post a one replay? Bibiane dont care, but Rush care cause he left asl2, feel attacked by others, so he should post a replay and if they will have the same hk etc i will apologize! until Rush or Bibane will not post a replay from 2v2 or Rush vs Bibiane its mean only that Bibane played for Rush in ASL. Ok I done in this topic, my patience has its limits on such obvious matters. I posted my argumets, which im sure for 99,999%, its their buisness to proves me and Others are wrong by uploading replay. Admins should get this replay...
On September 01 2012 04:30 mca64[KDV] wrote: i will ask again if Rush is not guilty why he wouldnt just a post a one replay? Bibiane dont care, but Rush care cause he left asl2, feel attacked by others, so he should post a replay and if they will have the same hk etc i will apologize! until Rush or Bibane will not post a replay from 2v2 or Rush vs Bibiane its mean only that Bibane played for Rush in ASL. Ok I finished in this topic. Admins should get this replay...
On September 01 2012 04:30 mca64[KDV] wrote: i will ask again if Rush is not guilty why he wouldnt just a post a one replay? Bibiane dont care, but Rush care cause he left asl2, feel attacked by others, so he should post a replay and if they will have the same hk etc i will apologize! until Rush or Bibane will not post a replay from 2v2 or Rush vs Bibiane its mean only that Bibane played for Rush in ASL. Ok I finished in this topic. Admins should get this replay...
Actually, RuSh played the ASL games without the help of Bibiane unless you can prove otherwise. This is the idea of evidence and proof. It's YOUR job to prove otherwise. Not their job to prove they have not.
On September 01 2012 04:30 mca64[KDV] wrote: until Rush or Bibane will not post a replay from 2v2 or Rush vs Bibiane its mean only that Bibane played for Rush in ASL
Actually, if they don't post it, it only means that they didn't post it.
On September 01 2012 02:04 dr.shrinker wrote: In my opinion the problem is not who RUSH is or isn't - it's the fact that he is clearly way too good for this tournament compared to both fellow participants and rank-wise - at least if he bothered playing 50~ games on ICCUP. Takes some of the fun away both from participants, viewers and even organizers I'd assume. Of course this adds some tension and drama which I would normally be found of, but in this case it's morel like .. meh, he'll just stomp his way to first place anyway - wonder who comes second.
I told Shimy after the ladder stage not to allow Rush to play, because I watched some of his replays and he really looked like a B-/B ranked terran to me. I even told Shimy that Rush will win the tournament -.- But he wouldn't listen, so i quit the CAT because i didn't want to give my name for Rush's legitimized win.
This - for me - says everything. I do not care that Shimy let him play and I do not jugde his decision at all, but letting him in for the second time is a bit over given his play in the last ASL. I do not know how much time people have spent watching replays, but I believe zimp is one of those who has most experience when it comes to this. If he says that this guy looks like a B-/B terran it probably has something to it.
Anyway, I'm still looking forward to playing this and I hope someone can cheese Rush out of this tournament. Nothing personal to you, Rush, but this would give people a fighting chance at winning this instead of having a predetermined winner.
Zimp was right, RuSh isn't playing in ASL2. I had a decent discussion with him last night, he decided not to play because he was being flamed by so many people.
Wow this is pretty sad actually. A tournament that's presumably won by the best player but at the same time has a cap as to how good people can be is inherently retardedtricky. If the organisers want to attempt it anyway that's on their heads, and any participant subscribing to their idea should know what he's in for. Taking any subsequent frustration out on the players is just wrong. Dunno who this is about but they should be ashamed of themselves.
No... Wasn't saying he was right about the skill, said he was right about RuSh not playing sorry for miss wording.
On September 01 2012 05:02 Game wrote: This thread is a disgrace.
Agreed.
mca64[KDV], Zimp said they're not the same person.
Do you know who motherfucking ZIMP is? Do you? Now go to your momma and bend over so she can spank you good.
If you like throwing accusations around, build a time machine and go back in time a few hundred years. Those guys with caps and red robes would welcome you.
As would some village people as Eywa- demonstrated with a nice vid:
On September 01 2012 02:04 dr.shrinker wrote: In my opinion the problem is not who RUSH is or isn't - it's the fact that he is clearly way too good for this tournament compared to both fellow participants and rank-wise - at least if he bothered playing 50~ games on ICCUP. Takes some of the fun away both from participants, viewers and even organizers I'd assume. Of course this adds some tension and drama which I would normally be found of, but in this case it's morel like .. meh, he'll just stomp his way to first place anyway - wonder who comes second.
I told Shimy after the ladder stage not to allow Rush to play, because I watched some of his replays and he really looked like a B-/B ranked terran to me. I even told Shimy that Rush will win the tournament -.- But he wouldn't listen, so i quit the CAT because i didn't want to give my name for Rush's legitimized win.
This - for me - says everything. I do not care that Shimy let him play and I do not jugde his decision at all, but letting him in for the second time is a bit over given his play in the last ASL. I do not know how much time people have spent watching replays, but I believe zimp is one of those who has most experience when it comes to this. If he says that this guy looks like a B-/B terran it probably has something to it.
Anyway, I'm still looking forward to playing this and I hope someone can cheese Rush out of this tournament. Nothing personal to you, Rush, but this would give people a fighting chance at winning this instead of having a predetermined winner.
Zimp was right, RuSh isn't playing in ASL2. I had a decent discussion with him last night, he decided not to play because he was being flamed by so many people.
Wow this is pretty sad actually. A tournament that's presumably won by the best player but at the same time has a cap as to how good people can be is inherently retardedtricky. If the organisers want to attempt it anyway that's on their heads, and any participant subscribing to their idea should know what he's in for. Taking any subsequent frustration out on the players is just wrong. Dunno who this is about but they should be ashamed of themselves.
No... Wasn't saying he was right about the skill, said he was right about RuSh not playing sorry for miss wording.
I think what Pholon was getting at is that it's sad that RuSh is the one getting flamed, implying that if anything the tournament organizers should be taking the heat for allowing a player that may have been "too good" to play.
I for one, agree. RuSh was allowed to compete and did so, which doesn't warrant any flaming.
They prolly aren't the same person. Maybe Bibane smurfed for rush. Idk. The real issue is sandbaggers like Rush that ruin a friendly tournament, as well as the staff that knowingly let him do so.
i think the tournament admins are at fault, first they ban this dude randomly with bullshit excuse (blackmailing the league) then they allow rush to smurf the league even though zimp warned them about it?
I think zimp's post summed it up pretty well. Perhaps mca's sentence was a bit rough but all in all, this is a nonissue imho at least, since Rush pulled out and they're definitely different people. As Lucky said, it really does look a bit suspicious but eh.
On September 01 2012 14:33 P7GAB wrote: i think the tournament admins are at fault, first they ban this dude randomly with bullshit excuse (blackmailing the league) then they allow rush to smurf the league even though zimp warned them about it?
First, he might not have intended to blackmail, but his wording was inferring such a thing. You don't do something or else I will do this. That and he was warned before.
Secondly, there was and still is no proof other than what we can see from those games that proves RuSh is higher than C+. He has no accounts higher than C+ and that's why he was admitted. Zimp merely warned that he might be above the C+ skill cap but there were no accounts to prove this. It was all speculation and really still is as RuSh is beatable.
On September 01 2012 01:37 hacklebeast wrote: Honestly having the two play wouldn't solve anything. The people who want to believe bibiane smurfed will never be satisfied, and it's too east to invalidate the rep that was played. The point of having the two play would be to show how similar of hotkeys they have, but how similar is similar enough? "OH SHIT RUSH HAS 30% REDUNDANCY WHILE BIBIANE ONLY HAS 25% CLEARLY IT WAS BIBIANE WHO WAS PLAYING FOR RUSH ALL ALONG BECAUSE NOW THEIR REDUNDANCY ARE SO DIFFERENT!!!" And even beyond that, rush should lose to bibbiane, as bibbiane is a very talented player. How do we decide how close the game needs to be to show rush is playing to his potential? "OH SHIT RUSH GOT CRUSHED!!! CLEARLY HE WAS PLAYING BADLY BECAUSE HE WAS TRYING TO USE SOMEONE ELSE'S HOTKEYS!!!" Vice versa could also be claimed if bibiane was beaten, as there would be "no way that an a player could lose unless he was using someone else's hotkeys".
The point is no one is going to change their position. Even if the hotkeys are radically different, the people who believe they are separate people would not be swayed by such a small sample size, as they already have not. And on the other side, there are people who really REALLY want to believe in conspiratorial theories, and there is no way to change that.
You're wrong... The people who believe RuSh = Bibiane will always believe that regardless of evidence, the people who think RuSh =/= Bibiane will be swayed with proper evidence. With that being said, it's obvious that one side is terribly blind by some kind of hatred (probably because RuSh maybe shouldn't have been admitted to ASL...
The only one who have admitted that they might be wrong about this case is mca. On the other hand, I have not read a single post here where You acknowledge the fact that his case might be true. To you it doesn't even seem like a possibility. And yet you're saying that the accusors are the ones that can't be swayed by proof. That's hilarious!
Most ppl seems to be convinced that Bibiane did smurf as Rush, according to that poll, so shouldn't it be in the best interest of Bibiane, Rush and the organization to clear their name? If this doesn't lead anywhere, ppl will still continue accusing Bibiane of being a smurfer, and the ppl who voted yes will lose faith in the organization in question, and it will also hurt the legitimacy of any future tournament that either of them takes part in.
On September 01 2012 14:33 P7GAB wrote: i think the tournament admins are at fault, first they ban this dude randomly with bullshit excuse (blackmailing the league) then they allow rush to smurf the league even though zimp warned them about it?
Secondly, there was and still is no proof other than what we can see from those games that proves RuSh is higher than C+. He has no accounts higher than C+ and that's why he was admitted. Zimp merely warned that he might be above the C+ skill cap but there were no accounts to prove this.
did u even read what u wrote ?? So with ur logic smurf is only possible to be catch if he joins league with account higher than skill cap ? (unless its possible to track every account created from a certain IP adress in that case ignore rest of post cause im complete ingorant in that matter - but even than its possible to smurf in , hah organisers not having easy job ;D ) So if u were organiser and i asked Flash to play on my account u would never catch me cause " hmm i dont see account higher than c+ - everythings fine!!" like thats the logic u kinda presented lol
I dunno but if such an authority in that case like Zimp gives warnings it could be like the only way to catch smurfes and should be investigated - so maybe organisers missed one guy but everyone makes mistakes,
Or maybe its not even mistake , maybe hes in C+ range and all people claiming hes above that rank are simply wrong? Thats also possibility and sadly we probably wont know the answer but imo if Rush had nothing to hide he wouldnt leave league - he would just simply ignore that sudden trash , thats what i think
On September 01 2012 14:33 P7GAB wrote: i think the tournament admins are at fault, first they ban this dude randomly with bullshit excuse (blackmailing the league) then they allow rush to smurf the league even though zimp warned them about it?
Secondly, there was and still is no proof other than what we can see from those games that proves RuSh is higher than C+. He has no accounts higher than C+ and that's why he was admitted. Zimp merely warned that he might be above the C+ skill cap but there were no accounts to prove this.
did u even read what u wrote ?? So with ur logic smurf is only possible to be catch if he joins league with account higher than skill cap ? (unless its possible to track every account created from a certain IP adress in that case ignore rest of post cause im complete ingorant in that matter - but even than its possible to smurf in , hah organisers not having easy job ;D ) So if u were organiser and i asked Flash to play on my account u would never catch me cause " hmm i dont see account higher than c+ - everythings fine!!" like thats the logic u kinda presented lol
I dunno but if such an authority in that case like Zimp gives warnings it could be like the only way to catch smurfes and should be investigated - so maybe organisers missed one guy but everyone makes mistakes,
Or maybe its not even mistake , maybe hes in C+ range and all people claiming hes above that rank are simply wrong? Thats also possibility and sadly we probably wont know the answer but imo if Rush had nothing to hide he wouldnt leave league - he would just simply ignore that sudden trash , thats what i think
and what admins did? they just warned me... I dont know what they dont care about fair play in theirs own tourney. Also i dont like tehy didnt let Breach play in this tourney cause he has gm in SC2 (even where him and his brother are bm to me, I try to look at everything objectively;). At the moment he isnt higher than yellow rank player for me (i played few games with him at ysl ladder stage). Admins from ASL are so unfair.... at least YSL's admin Ninazerg has diffrent attitude and she is really nice and funny person i love hers trollin;)
well, winning from somebody doesn't mean that he is better...... look at m18m vs flash for example last spl, he was like 15-0 and he lost 1 game, does that mean he is suddely worse against m18m? no ofc not, so judging by 2 games is kinda stupid tbh
On September 01 2012 05:02 Game wrote: This thread is a disgrace.
It is, it got me banned for no good Fing reason. I just wanna say that Bibiane nor RuSh have participated in the conversation and they haven't tried to exonorate themselves and I'm not sure what to think about that.
On September 01 2012 21:00 aquados wrote: well, winning from somebody doesn't mean that he is better...... look at m18m vs flash for example last spl, he was like 15-0 and he lost 1 game, does that mean he is suddely worse against m18m? no ofc not, so judging by 2 games is kinda stupid tbh
i cant win vs wallace, i cant win vs drshrinker (both c+ max players and plays in asl2 and ysl) but vs Breach's main race toss i won 2;1. (normal games, no 8bbs by me). For me he isnt more that c+
LOL drama. as for the matter, since i havent been active for years, i know neither of these guys. but after reading every single post in this thread (multiban so good), especially games and eywas, there was just too much defense from 2 of the (head?)organizers for some supposedly random C player, who magically after playing a season of 100 games (not that many really) starts to rape faces and goes 90+% winrate. in steps the new hk expert in town, sorry i dont know you, and says a lot of things, but the only important thing he said was him being actually not sure about the issue AND having suspected the accused player himself for a long time before. he also quit the team, just because of THIS? wow, yet people still focus on that polish guy nobody knows, probably being a mistrzzz smurf (now that doty seems to be a respected member of the community this wouldnt surprise me at all), hacking down on him for not being able to provide the 100%proof which has never existed in the world of starcraft, where it always was a combination of luck, timing and a good sense of !good! organization (this isnt just setting up things) when there were banwaves or single smurfers/cheaters getting caught.
there still has not been a single replay posted by the tournament admins, who rather ban the guy who actually seems nice, but a little too naive and lacks good english, for BLACKMAILING them LOL. AFTER he PRIVATELY messaged them, asking to investigate the issue, nothing more. he may have demanded a ban or made himself look like he has undeniable proof too quickly, but does that warrant all the shit hes taking here including a ban for some tour he is told be one of the most active players in? i think not. maybe have him banned after he failed to provide proof in this thread, after a good 100 of posts. but the way the admins presented themselves here, it sounded more like "yea, we ban guys we dont agree with. we're friends with the accused, so they CANT be doing anything wrong (OH how often has this happened before here? ahahahah). they live close to each other, its PROOF they dont smurf on each others acc (LOL?). we dont give you replays. why? because fuck you."
all in all, thats the message you guys brought across here, so why you cry when people start getting supicious of the issue, even if there is no real proof and just some 4 replays or shit (nobody has analyzed them so far from what i can see)? romad doesnt wanna do it and says the other guy could do it just as well, who, i repeat, QUIT THE WHOLE THING BECAUSE HE WAS THINKING THE EXACT SAME THING AS THE OP? and judging from the way game and eywa are behaving here, he didnt just quit LOL. maybe game has a special understanding for the situation his friends are in?! hahaha
edit: i suggest the following steps: - since there has been 12 pages of drama and a funny amount of bans in this thread already, the tournament admins release all replays of rush and the other guy whos name i cant remember - romad goes over these, being the nice guy he's always been (never understood why you'd provide such an excellent service to a community which has a history of defending cheaters and not handing out lifetime bans probably ever. hovz) - if romad says and actually provides proof of either: - them not smurfing, ban the polish dude from your leagues and tl, because he stirred up a lot of shit - them actually smurfing, ban both guys forever and try to think about if game and eywa are fit to be admins
maybe youre great at organizing shit for this little community, but the way youre handling this issue screams "nepotism". so maybe you should get guys on the team for ADMINISTRATING the way your tourneys are ran, who arent involved that deeply in the community, which has always been one of the better things about early iccup etc, where you might have gotten some random ban for not complying, but there was NEVER a case of this kind of friends helping each other out thing, which only started after they got ppl like paladin and all the other US east guys on the team.
funny thig is that Mistrzzz was accused by ToT)Hullah(. Later on mh was proven in Hullah's games... but this not the end of the story. Now Hullah works for Bllizard bouhahahaha. He hacked almost in every foreign games (even in open tour ToT's membership invite) and now get a good job...
On September 01 2012 21:44 mca64[KDV] wrote: funny thig is that Mistrzzz was accused by ToT)Hullah(. Later on mh was proven in Hullah's games... but this not the end of the story. Now Hullah works in bllizard bouhahahaha. He hacked almost in every foreign games and now get a good job...
yea dude, if i were you, id stop going around and showing your knowledge about mistrzzz lol. btw, did any of you know zarrr was still playing all these years? yes, its a fact many proven hackers came out of the woodworks again after sc2 killed bw. knowing guys like zarrr personally and knowing many other of these dudes and how their cases went down way back, almost exclusively every cheater in the foreign scene never played for the petty 50€ you could win here and there, but always for fame and glory. and fame and glory dont care about it being in a community of 5000 or 500 guys. or rather 50 nowadays lol
Many ppl says im stupid cause better forme is be quiet and play in asl2 (where i practied verry hard, last time like 40 tvp, for prepare vs Wallace in first stage and btw now when i am banned i can tell that i prepared my own modication of Hiya's 4 fact push at FS vs You ), but i cant be indifferent with this whole case with Rush and ASL admins attitude. It's just the way i am .You were first who mentioned about Mistrzzz
On September 01 2012 14:33 P7GAB wrote: i think the tournament admins are at fault, first they ban this dude randomly with bullshit excuse (blackmailing the league) then they allow rush to smurf the league even though zimp warned them about it?
Secondly, there was and still is no proof other than what we can see from those games that proves RuSh is higher than C+. He has no accounts higher than C+ and that's why he was admitted. Zimp merely warned that he might be above the C+ skill cap but there were no accounts to prove this.
did u even read what u wrote ?? So with ur logic smurf is only possible to be catch if he joins league with account higher than skill cap ? (unless its possible to track every account created from a certain IP adress in that case ignore rest of post cause im complete ingorant in that matter - but even than its possible to smurf in , hah organisers not having easy job ;D ) So if u were organiser and i asked Flash to play on my account u would never catch me cause " hmm i dont see account higher than c+ - everythings fine!!" like thats the logic u kinda presented lol
I dunno but if such an authority in that case like Zimp gives warnings it could be like the only way to catch smurfes and should be investigated - so maybe organisers missed one guy but everyone makes mistakes,
Or maybe its not even mistake , maybe hes in C+ range and all people claiming hes above that rank are simply wrong? Thats also possibility and sadly we probably wont know the answer but imo if Rush had nothing to hide he wouldnt leave league - he would just simply ignore that sudden trash , thats what i think
also... cool thread :D
Actually I read what I wrote and you took it as me being retarded instead of taking it logically, but I can only expect this on the internet and in this thread so I am not offended in the least.
On September 01 2012 05:02 Game wrote: This thread is a disgrace.
Agreed.
mca64[KDV], Zimp said they're not the same person.
Do you know who motherfucking ZIMP is? Do you? Now go to your momma and bend over so she can spank you good.
If you like throwing accusations around, build a time machine and go back in time a few hundred years. Those guys with caps and red robes would welcome you.
EPT![[image loading]](http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/6743/444rb.jpg)
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![[image loading]](http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/8861/bwchcal.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/rLZFl.jpg)
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sorry for miss wording.
